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STEVE WATTS
Electronic Aficionado
Articles Posted: 295; Links Seeded: 1160
Member Since: 3/2006Last Seen: 11/06/2009
Member Since: 3/2006Last Seen: 11/06/2009
59 Comments
PrintLive Poll
Flight 815 had no survivors. This is because...
- the Losties are dead/in purgatory8%
- the Others faked a crash elsewhere64%
- Naomi is lying8%
- Other (explain below)20%
Total Votes: 25
Sun: who your babydaddy?
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Sun's concern over her pregnancy led us into a revealing look at her past and her current pregnancy, while a surprisingly recurring character helped nurse the parachute visitor back to health.
ABC Preview:
After discovering that all of "The Others'" pregnant women died before giving birth on the island, an extremely reticent Sun allows Juliet to examine her -- and uncovers the identity of the unborn child's father. Meanwhile, Desmond allows an unlikely nemesis to help save the life of a new, mysterious island inhabitant.
Note: "Lost in the Vines" is made for discussion of the series "Lost" on ABC. As such, here be spoilers! We talk frankly about the events of the night, speculate about future events, and so on. Read no further if you don't want spoilers.
Flashback: Jin/Sun
The Big Reveal: Mikhail is alive; Jin was an enforcer because of Sun; Jin is the father of Sun's baby; Juliet is reporting on pregnant women to Ben; Flight 815... err, crashed with no survivors... ?
Summary:
(Flashbacks are in Italicized text)
Jack approaches Sun asking how she's doing with her pregnancy, wanting to make sure that she's okay. She suspiciously assures him that she's fine and he leaves.
Sun walks along a bridge and receives a call from Jin, as a newlywed. The two talk about their new apartment and he says he has to get back to the office. They say a loving goodbye and Sun is asked about her wedding announcement from a stranger. The two talk about Sun's rich family, the Paiks. The stranger asks about Jin's parents and Sun says that they're dead. The stranger seems unsure, and she and Sun get into a conversation about Jin's past; the stranger accuses Jin's mother of being a prostitute and Sun feels outraged, but then the stranger's intentions are revealed when she threatens Sun with blackmail. She gives her three days to meet her at that location with $100,000.
Desmond, Charlie and Hurley look at the stranger from the parachute, Naomi, and when she wakes up Hurley recognizes her language, and translates that she says she's dying. Desmond yells at Hurley to get the first aid kit as Charlie and Desmond argue over whether to move the body. Desmond says they need to get Jack and that he'll run to find him, but Charlie objects, considering night will fall soon. Desmond observes that no one knows they're here, when Hurley accidentally fires a flare into the sky.
Sun sits in her apartment when Jin surprises her with some soup. She keeps unpacking but he says they should eat first. She looks at a couple of pictures and asks about Jin's family, if he has pictures too. He claims they didn't have a camera when they were growing up. He says that his father died in the army, but Sun questions it and Jin changes his story, saying he was the one in the army. He says she must have misunderstood, and she apologizes.
Sun works on her shelter while talking to Kate, and asks what happened to Jack while he was with the Others. Kate relates Jack's story that he was a prisoner and was playing along. Sun pointedly asks if Kate believes him, and Kate asks why wouldn't she. Sun comments that he came to her, asking about her pregnancy, and that if the Others want her baby, Jack might be working for them. Kate looks at Juliet and tells Sun about the revelation of the baby research.
Sun angrily approaches Juliet and asks what happens to pregnant women on the island. Juliet asks if she's sure she's pregnant and Sun continues to demand answers about the Others and their obsession with children. She doesn't relent until Juliet finally tells her that pregnant women die on the island. Sun looks with horror at Juliet and walks away with Kate.
Desmond, Hurley and Charlie continue to argue about how to treat Naomi. Desmond starts to get his things and Charlie stands in his way. Then they hear a rustling in the jungle and find Mikhail running towards them. The four stare at him a moment and he starts to run away, when Jin chases after him, with Desmond and Charlie in close pursuit. Jin eventually catches up with him and jumps him, and the two struggle, with Jin eventually putting Mikhail in a headlock.
Later, Desmond interrogates Mikhail with a gun, asking who he is. Charlie observes that he's the one that shot Sayid, and tells that he knows his story. Hurley wonders why he isn't dead since he went to the electrical fence. Desmond threatens his life and Mikhail makes a smug reply about having died before this week. The woman starts to speak again, and Mikhail says that she is speaking Italian and he understands her. He offers his services as an army field medic and observes that she has a punctured lung. Desmond tells him to fix her and Mikhail offers to - in exchange for letting him walk away. Desmond reluctantly agrees.
Sun sits alone on the beach. She sees Claire playing with Aaron.
Sun walks out on a pier to find Mr. Kwon, Jin's father. He is pleased to meet her and the two go back to his house for tea. They start to talk about the wedding and how beautiful it was, and Sun asks Mr. Kwon why he didn't come. Kwon asks what Jin had told her, and she replies that he said his father was dead. Mr. Kwon looks ashamed and says he lied to hide where he came from. Sun observes that also must be the reason Mr. Kwon told Jin that his mother died when he was a baby. Mr. Kwon confesses that his mother was "with many men," and left Jin with him alone. He raised him alone, but he wasn't sure he was his father, but felt obligated; who else would take care of the baby? He reaches out to Sun and tells her she's beautiful and that he's pleased to meet her. He tells her that she can never tell Jin that she met him, or that his mother is alive, so that he won't have to suffer the shame.
Juliet sneaks into Sun's tent late at night and covers her mouth, offering to take her off by herself. She can answer her questions, but she has to come with her right now, with no questions. Sun asks why she should go if she's already dead, and Juliet replies that there may yet be hope for her.
Juliet and Sun walk through the jungle carrying torches, and Juliet says they're going to a medical station with an ultrasound machine. Sun asks what she's going to do to her, and Juliet says she's going to determine the date of conception. If she got pregnant off the island, she'll probably be okay; but if she got pregnant here, they'd have to deal with it somehow. Juliet asks when her and her husband last had sex, and Sun refuses to tell her.
Sun walks into the offices her of father. Some men walk out of the room and Mr. Paik greets his daughter. She asks for a favor, to have $100,000. He asks what it's for and she says she can't tell him. He says he shouldn't give her money without an explanation. She says that she should get it because she's pretended her whole life that she doesn't know what he does, and if he gives her the money, she'll keep pretending. He bursts out at him, but she says she's doing it to spare someone she loves deep shame. He observes that she's talking about her new husband, and opens a secret safe, handing her the money in a small bag. He says that if she takes the money, Jin will bear the debt; he won't be a floor manager, and will instead be working for him. She takes the money.
Mikhail works on the girl and asks what she brought with her, and Hurley mentions the radio phone. Mikhail asks if it works and Hurley refuses to tell him. Mikhail gets Desmond to hold Naomi down as he ventilates the lung. She begins to speak again and Desmond asks what she said; Mikhail says that she said thank you, for helping her.
Sun and Juliet walk to the hatch and Juliet opens it, and the two walk down inside of it. Sun asks why she's helping her, and Juliet says that a long time ago she told women they were pregnant and it was the best news they ever got. But then she came here, she explains, and she's lost nine patients in the last three years. Juliet says she's helping her because she wants to tell her that she got pregnant before she came here, so she can give good news again. Sun reveals that she slept with another man before they got to the island; she explains the trouble she and Jin were having, and the situation with Jae Lee. She says it was a mistake, and Juliet reassures her that they all make mistakes.
The two walk into a separate room and Juliet turns a handle to open a secret door. With Sun's help, she accesses a hidden room and Sun observes it, asking why the room is hidden. Juliet tells her not to worry about it, but Sun insists. Juliet says that this room is where they brought the women to die.
Mikhail says that Naomi is fine, and if they treat her she'll be okay in a day. Charlie expresses surprise at the short amount of time, and Mikhail explains that on the island people heal faster. Mikhail asks to leave and Desmond tells him to just go. Charlie starts to argue, and Mikhail leaves on his own. Jin gives chase with Desmond following him, telling him it's okay. Jin catches up and reveals that Mikhail had stolen the satellite phone. Charlie threatens Mikhail and Desmond breaks up the potential fight. Mikhail walks away and the three regard each other uncomfortably.
Sun tells Juliet that the baby isn't Jin's. They tried to have a baby in Korea and Jin was infertile. Juliet explains that, here on the island, men are five times more fertile. Juliet starts to administer the ultrasound, and explains that she might not see the baby yet since she's only in the first trimester. She says she'll take a measurement of the fetus to determine when the baby was conceived. Sun starts to cry and says that she loses either way; if she's going to live, it means the baby isn't Jin's. Juliet asks if she's sure she still wants to do it, and Sun agrees.
Sun stands in her bedroom when Jin comes in to meet her. He says that he heard she came by the office today, and she says she didn't see him because she didn't want to be a bother. He asks if she got the mail and she says no, so he goes to get the mail key from her purse... but instead he finds the stack of money. She confesses that it's from her father, but claims that she wanted to get them some furniture and a honeymoon. He says he can provide for her, that he will give her furniture and a honeymoon but it will take time. He says he always wants to take care of her. She coughs a bit on her tears and says okay, and he tells her to give the money back, so they won't be in her father's debt. She agrees and says she loves him.
Juliet and Sun look at the ultrasound. Sun asks if it's a boy or girl and Juliet says it's too early to tell, but that they can see a heartbeat, and that it's strong so the baby is very healthy. Juliet starts to calculate, and determines that Sun crashed about 80 days ago, and got pregnant about 53 days ago... so the baby was conceived on the island. Sun starts to cry and says that it's Jin's.
Sun approaches the older woman on a pier. Sun reaches for the money, but asks the old woman why she didn't tell her she was Jin's mother. The woman says she only gave birth to him, that she's not his mother. Sun says she should know how powerful her family is, and threatens the old woman's life, handing her the money and walking away.
Sun and Juliet walk out of the hatch, and Sun asks how long she has. Juliet comments that most women made it to the middle of their second trimester, and no one made it to the third. Sun has two months, she observes, but she's very happy the baby is Jin's. She tells Juliet that she gave her good news, and Juliet says it was her pleasure. Sun starts to leave while Juliet says that she's going to go back in to make sure she didn't miss anything, so they covered their tracks. Sun thanks Juliet.
Juliet walks into the hatch, entering the secret room and leaving a message for Ben with a tape recorder. She tells her that Sun is pregnant, that the baby was conceived on the island and her husband was sterile. She says she's working on getting reports for the other women and will report back when she has more. As a final note, she says she hates him.
Charlie and Desmond continue to argue over what should have been done with Mikhail. Desmond says that Charlie's killed more of them than they've killed of him, but Charlie says that they can't trust them.
Meanwhile, Hurley sits with the woman, playing with the phone. The woman wakes up and asks where she is. Hurley says to take it easy for a while, and tells her that she's on an island. He asks if she's there to save them, if she was looking for them. He mentions Flight 815 and she recognizes it as the one from Sydney. She says it's not possible that he's from that flight, because they found the plane. There were no survivors on Flight 815, all of them were dead.
The Big Questions:
How is Mikhail alive? Who did he think he was approaching from the flare?
Did Juliet/Others really not know that Sun was pregnant?
Was Mikhail telling the truth about what Naomi was saying? If not, what did she say?
Why are men more fertile on the island? (Especially if pregnant women inevitably die?)
What is the purpose of Juliet leaving messages for Ben, and checking up on all the women? Will it relate to the "see you in a week" promise we saw from Ben earlier?
Flight 815 found with no survivors: what the hell?
Why did Naomi come to the island?
Next, on Lost:
"The Brig" - A newly focused Locke breaks away from "The Others" in an attempt to persuade Sawyer to help rid them of a great nemesis that has caused nothing but pain in both of their lives. Meanwhile, a new island inhabitant discloses some shocking information about Oceanic Flight 815.
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20
1.9
{"commentId":666914,"authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
Ahh, awesome episode. I find Sun/Jin episodes are pretty hit or miss, but I was very pleased with this one. It had a real emotional story attached to it, and I was pleased with how the intermingled new facts in with old ones to reveal things we didn't know before.
Sun knew all about her father's misdeeds, she knew all about Jin's past, she was in (indirectly) the reason he became an "Enforcer" for Mr. Paik. It seems she's a lot more clever and shrewd than we usually give her credit for. On top of that, we got to see Jin young and in love in this episode, when things were ideal and sweet between the two, and that was a nice change of pace. I also really like the guy who play's Mr. Kwon, he always gets the humble friendliness pitch-perfect.
The preview for next week looks interesting. The natural assumption has been that Locke has defected, but it looks like next week is going to turn all of those expectations on their head. Some serious potential for Other-comeupance, and I know some of my regular readers (looking at you, Brian) are thinking "about time."
Anyway, onto the questions:
How is Mikhail alive? Who did he think he was approaching from the flare?
Fake death, I would presume. And perhaps he thought the flare was an emergency signal from Ben? I doubt he would come running with reckless abandon if he knew our Losties were the ones he was running towards. Unless, of course, he knew about the satellite phone and this was an elaborate ruse to steal it...
But if Mikhail faked his death, it does beg the question of whether Ms. Klugh's was a fake-out as well. Or, to go with the way out-there theory, he didn't fake it at all, but was "revived" by the power of the island. I doubt this one, but hey, you never know.
Which brings up another interesting point. Mikhail mentioned the island's healing properties as if it's a general rule. This seems to imply it's not a Locke/Rose's healing vs Ben's non-healing issue; more a Ben's non-healing vs everyone else being able to heal quickly.
Did Juliet/Others really not know that Sun was pregnant?
Given her message to Ben at the end, I think she was genuinely surprised, so the Others aren't really omniscient. I also got a different vibe from Juliet this episode. Her message at the end seemed to indicate she's really angry at Ben for making her do this, and she was genuine in wanting to help Sun even if it did also benefit Ben's needs. But then, she pulled the wool over our eyes pretty well a couple episodes back, so...
Was Mikhail telling the truth about what Naomi was saying? If not, what did she say?
This one I'm curious about. I doubt he was telling the truth, and fans fluent in Italian (if Mikhail was honest that she was speaking Italian) will have a real translation up soon. I was also mildly curious what Mr. Paik was saying to his associates before Sun entered.
Why are men more fertile on the island? (Especially if pregnant women inevitably die?)
God's cruel trick? I don't know. This makes no evolutionary sense.
Flight 815 found with no survivors: what the hell?
I know the instant idea is "they're all dead/ghosts/in purgatory!" But I hate that theory. It's a cheap cop-out, so I refuse to believe it. I think this is a curveball, and could be partly the writers throwing it just to mess with people who have thought that since the first season. But the creators have long denied that theory, almost since its inception, so it would seem disingenuous to go back on it now.
I like the "Others planted a fake crash" theory. There's probably some other possibility I'm not thinking of right now.
Why did Naomi come to the island?
Well... it clearly wasn't to save the survivors of Flight 815, since she didn't think there were any. But considering she had a picture of Desmond, I'm sticking with the idea that Penny sent her. Not knowing about the 815 survivors doesn't really change that.
{"commentId":666914,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
- 5 votes
#1 - Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:28 AM EDT{"commentId":667359,"authorDomain":"sguido"}
How is Mikhail alive? Who did he think he was approaching from the flare?
Why did Naomi come to the island?
I'm starting to wonder if maybe Naomi may be one of the others and not from Penny at all.
Would Desmond know Patchy? They were both in hatches .. I'm wondering if there is more "others" in Desmond than we now know... which may also explain whey he'd let Mikhail leave..
{"commentId":667359,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"sguido"}
{"commentId":667423,"authorDomain":"ryaninc"}
Would Desmond know Patchy? They were both in hatches .. I'm wondering if there is more "others" in Desmond than we now know... which may also explain whey he'd let Mikhail leave..
Not a bad theory! I've wondered that all along. Unless The Others truly didn't know about the Swan hatch. That might explain why Ben wanted to get in there in the first place. Hmmm...
{"commentId":667423,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"ryaninc"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":667437,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
We already know that they did know about the Swan though. In the Loochies episode it clearly showed Ben and Juliet watching Jack from the monitoring station.
There's a good chance they know about Desmond, too. But there's not much, yet, to indicate that Desmond knew about them other than when his predecessor mentioned "hostiles".
{"commentId":667437,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":667498,"authorDomain":"ryaninc"}
We already know that they did know about the Swan though. In the Loochies episode it clearly showed Ben and Juliet watching Jack from the monitoring station.
Shoot, you're right. But then...gah. I really don't get this one. Why would the Other leave Desmund alone in the Swan? Unless...maybe they really believed that it was just a mind game being played on the inhabitant. That is what Ben told Locke, after all. Maybe they had no idea about the importance of the Swan...
{"commentId":667498,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"ryaninc"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":667524,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
Well, we've seen the Others needed someone to keep pushing the button (since apparently all their communications went funky after the Swan blew up) and now it's clear the Ben actually did push the button in the hatch and just told Locke he didn't to @!$%# with his head. I'm assuming either
a) They didn't know where the normal door to the hatch was
b) They didn't have the dynamite to blow the top hatch/didn't know where that was either
or
c) They were fine letting some stooge continue to push the button for them.
C is probably the most plausible since they seem to have access to every other Dharma facility and I doubt that the two people in the Swan could have stopped any serious Other incursion.
{"commentId":667524,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":667871,"authorDomain":"polymer"}
a) They didn't know where the normal door to the hatch was
b) They didn't have the dynamite to blow the top hatch/didn't know where that was either
or
c) They were fine letting some stooge continue to push the button for them.
I'd have to go with C as well, and it fits in line with what happened to Kelvin and Radzinsky. They obviously explored other parts of the island from their map, and at some point, they must've found the Pearl station, which was why Radzinsky killed himself and Kelvin wanted to leave, making Desmond assume his role as button-pusher.
{"commentId":667871,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"polymer"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":668122,"authorDomain":"sguido"}
I wonder whether they knew how important the hatch was .. if so why would you let your total communications depend on a stooge?
Or the swam blowing up was similar to the other hatch self-detonation. Meaning if the button isn't pushed this is an alert signal that something is wrong.. and it explodes.
{"commentId":668122,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"sguido"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":668129,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
Meaning if the button isn't pushed this is an alert signal that something is wrong.. and it explodes.
In this case you have to wonder what Desmond's key did then.
{"commentId":668129,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":668784,"authorDomain":"carolynford"}
I wonder whether they knew how important the hatch was .. if so why would you let your total communications depend on a stooge?
Yeah, if the Others were watching Kelvin & Desmond, they should have been pretty concerned when Kelvin disappeared.
{"commentId":668784,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"carolynford"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":670179,"authorDomain":"sguido"}
In this case you have to wonder what Desmond's key did then.
Yeah I forgot the key was the "death blow" to the hatch. So maybe there are 2 layers of security.
{"commentId":670179,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"sguido"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":666935,"authorDomain":"michaelb1"}
Steve, your getting quick with these posts.
I agree with you about the pergatory theory. It was my first thought but it's too obvious.
I want the parachutist to have a flashback episode immediatley!!!
I guess eye-patch guy was only injured when he went through the fence and the island healed him up real quick.
amazing episode.
{"commentId":666935,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"michaelb1"}
- 1 vote
#2 - Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:58 AM EDT{"commentId":666972,"authorDomain":"gzirra"}
How is Mikhail alive?
All I have to say is "I called it."
Was Mikhail telling the truth about what Naomi was saying? If not, what did she say?
I read that last episode she was supposedly speaking Portugese. And I didn't recognize any Italian "Gratzie(sp?)" for Patchy's translated "thank you."
Why are men more fertile on the island? (Especially if pregnant women inevitably die?)
I'm telling you, Kate is preggers - with Juliet's fertility juice and Sawyer's hyper-bad-guy-smart-alecky-manliness, she's definitely got an island bun in the oven.
What is the purpose of Juliet leaving messages for Ben, and checking up on all the women? Will it relate to the "see you in a week" promise we saw from Ben earlier?
Uh, yes.
Flight 815 found with no survivors: what the hell?
Frankly, the best part of the entire episode.
I wasn't too happy with this episode. Who cares about Sun and Jin's backstory at this point? I don't, other than the fact that we now find out she's a cheating wife even more responsible for changing a fisherman-cum-doorman into a thug than we originally thought. The fertility answers were, well, answers, but nothing too revealing or new.
Gzirra's Cheers:
- Everyone died? (Notice: Not "no survivors..." but "everyone died!"). Now THAT'S interesting!
Gzirra's Jeers
- I'd get into the Juliet/fertility/Sun lameness, but I think others (*paging Mr. Ford...*) can do a far better job
- redundant Sun & Jin story
- Desi et. al. wouldn't make sure Patchy stayed around til Naomi woke up? And NO ONE notices he stole the Sat phone until he leaves!?!?
- Patchy's zombified reanimation (see the "I called it" link above - l.a.m.e.)
- The hobbit trying to play enforcer. Please. He's a drugged out hobbit.
- Previews for next week. I feel that Locke is not, in fact, asking Sawyer to kill Ben, but to kill a man in a hood who happens to be the "real" Sawyer (Locke's father) who Locke doesn't have the stones to kill, or has somehow been tricked by Ben into trying to get Sawyer to Locke's dirtywork. As the saying goes, "I've got a bad feeling about this..."
Gzirra's Question:
- If Patchy survived, (though I never thought he was really dead) - did Ethan? What about Goodwin? And the guy who's skull Mr. Eko bashed in? And the idiot who had a hard-on for killing Sawyer that Juliet shot? And does that mean that Desi is wrong in his tally of the dead? Not that "who's killed more" means one side is right, but apparently if you get to someone and provide minimal camp care, everyone revives.
{"commentId":666972,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"gzirra"}
- 3 votes
#3 - Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:48 AM EDT{"commentId":667134,"authorDomain":"softfacts"}
I'm telling you, Kate is preggers - with Juliet's fertility juice and Sawyer's hyper-bad-guy-smart-alecky-manliness, she's definitely got an island bun in the oven.
That would finally explain why the Other's wanted Kate and Sawyer in the first place. I nominate this hypothesis for promotion to fact.
{"commentId":667134,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"softfacts"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":667353,"authorDomain":"gzirra"}
Perhaps I was a bit too enthusiastic to get my comment up. Redundant wasn't the right word. The story about Jin's mom being a nasty prostitute and the fact that his father may not even really be his father just weren't the big surprises I felt they were supposed to be. Sun calling in her chips on her father was interesting, but all-in-all it felt like it would have been a great season-one flashback.
Since this was one of the four "final episodes you just can't miss!" - I came away feeling like there just wasn't anything very revealing about an episode that was supposed to be so important.
{"commentId":667353,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"gzirra"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":667354,"authorDomain":"sguido"}
Everyone died? (Notice: Not "no survivors..." but "everyone died!"). Now THAT'S interesting!
A very good take on the situation. My initial thought was .. huh maybe they are in purgatory. But this morning I had a more realistic (and unfortunately less cool) theory. We know the others had a very close connection to the outside world and had some power there, so it's quite possible they planted the news story. "He we found the plane, everyones dead." This would stop anybody from trying to find the plane.
Desi et. al. wouldn't make sure Patchy stayed around til Naomi woke up? And NO ONE notices he stole the Sat phone until he leaves!?!?
My jeer on this is another angle. Why the hell do they let him go ? They gave him their "word" .. uh who cares? Stop the guy, who cares about lying.
{"commentId":667354,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"sguido"}
{"commentId":667372,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
They gave him their "word" .. uh who cares?
Remember though that Desmond wasn't one of the Losties originally. He hasn't gone through really anything with them so he has no reason to hate them. Also, Desmond seemed to be the only one that cared about giving his word anyway and everyone was just taking cues from him. And really, was Charlie gonna go up against Desmond? Actually, I'd like to see that. Just 'cause I want to watch whiny @!$%# Charlie get beat a little bit. Or a lot.
{"commentId":667372,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":668133,"authorDomain":"sguido"}
I'll give you Desmond.. but Charlie was *hung* up by the others let's not forget.. and I'm sure Jin could have taken care of him. I'm not saying kill him .. but capture him.
{"commentId":668133,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"sguido"}
{"commentId":669993,"authorDomain":"softfacts"}
My jeer on this is another angle. Why the hell do they let him go ? They gave him their "word" .. uh who cares? Stop the guy, who cares about lying.
Ol' Smokey cares. It's a matter of honor. Benry is always adamant about keeping his word even as he works overtime behind the scenes to ensure it's impossible for him to do so. Breaking promises is apparently a big no-no that gets you on the naughty list but Benry has found loopholes around it by getting other people to do his dirty work for him. I applaud Desmond's decision to uphold his end of the bargain. Walking the path of righteousness is never easy.
{"commentId":669993,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"softfacts"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":670193,"authorDomain":"sguido"}
But the others don't know about smokey's honor clause, and that's a theory that really hasn't played out fully.
I applaud Desmond's decision to uphold his end of the bargain. Walking the path of righteousness is never easy.
This isn't an every day situation they are in. This is for lack of a better word, a war zone.. kill or be killed. So yeah it may be righteous .. but it may end up killing you in the end.
Plus, let's remember this guy was supposed to be dead - that alone means he should be captured and brought back to camp.
{"commentId":670193,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"sguido"}
{"commentId":670814,"authorDomain":"jaawalla"}
Um...if you actually check out the comment, I called it.
{"commentId":670814,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"jaawalla"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":671406,"authorDomain":"gzirra"}
My bad - you even called the Rose-Island-healing bit. Good work mate.
{"commentId":671406,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"gzirra"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":667049,"authorDomain":"softfacts"}
Great episode. Props to gzirra who indeed "called it" with Patchy. As for his Jesus impersonation I think the death was staged... with Locke's help. Those two shared some kind of moment back at the comm station. I wonder if Patchy didn't trade info for his release and maybe even planted the seed in his brain about blowing up the sub for Benry. Locke pushing him through the "Death-Fence" was crazy even by this crip's standards and I think the preview for the next ep shows he knew Patchy wasn't dead. How? He wants Sawyer to kill his dad because he can't do it himself. He understands the island has some convoluted sense of morality and he needs someone else to take a life for him. Why Sawyer? Because we're finally being told what we've suspected all along... Papa John is Original Recipe Sawyer who scammed James' mother when he was a kid and Locke thinks revealing this little tidbit he gleaned from the Other's will push New Sawyer over the edge. Is Locke now an Other? Nah. It's just more of looking out for numero uno. That guy goes wherever he thinks the island tells him to go. Of course, I've never had a single prediction about this show come true but even the sun will shine on a sleeping dog's ass at least once a day.
I'm a little saddened to hear folks badmouth the flashbacks. Personally, I like all these characters and enjoy seeing the decisions they've made in their lives leading to them boarding a doomed airliner. This show features a bazillion cast members and I'm always intrigued to learn more about them and get a sense of where they're coming from. Hell, I even feel bad about how Nikki treated Paulo now for chrissakes! I assure you that the finale to this series will never meet up to the lofty expectations we've all made for the show so if you aren't enjoying the ride there I think the conclusion is only going to compound your frustrations.
Speaking of that doomed airliner... No survivors? The purgatory theory always reeked of bull@!$%# to me but I'm not sure I buy the idea that another crash site was staged either. Why would they have let Michael go then? I never believed for a moment Benry was ever going to let that sub reach it's destination with Jack and Juliet onboard but Michael clearly went somewhere. Ace Chopper Pilot Naomi is going to need spill more beans before I know what to think about this bombshell.
Juliet helping Sun was cool. I'm glad to see her portrayed with a bit more humanity although the writers really dropped the ball by not exploiting the opportunity for some hot, interracial, lesbian action. I figured all that talk about copious sperm counts would ensure at least a little heavy petting. Maybe next week.
{"commentId":667049,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"softfacts"}
- 6 votes
#4 - Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:00 AM EDT{"commentId":667118,"authorDomain":"softfacts"}
So I'm reading some of Steve's older editions of this column when I stumble across this little tidbit from him:
In an interview, the actress who plays Sun said she was told by producers that when we find out who her baby is, that will be like... the end of Lost. That will be the last twist left, and that's what they'll go out on...
So maybe even if the baby was conceived on the island it isn't Jin's after all? I will hereby continue to stick by the assertion I made way back then... that it's an immaculate conception! Or Vincent is the daddy. I'd guess there's a 50/50 chance of it going either way.
{"commentId":667118,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"softfacts"}
- 5 votes
#5 - Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:10 AM EDT{"commentId":667364,"authorDomain":"sguido"}
So far we've seen 2 very powerful family heads. Penny's dad and Sun's dad .. so who knows where the master head of the island turn out to be.
{"commentId":667364,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"sguido"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":667260,"authorDomain":"ryaninc"}
Excellent episode! I really liked that one. Even the flashbacks were good. As Obleo said, I enjoy learning about the characters' back stories. I like the island mystery more, sure, but the flashbacks are still fun.
Wow, lots of questions in this one, huh? Both asked and answered. Let me start by giving my answers:
How is Mikhail alive? Who did he think he was approaching from the flare?
I didn't think he died in the first place. Although I do find it a little cheesy that they brought him back. I hope they give us a good reason for it.
Did Juliet/Others really not know that Sun was pregnant?
Juliet looked surprised. But maybe not. I'm going with they didn't know.
Was Mikhail telling the truth about what Naomi was saying? If not, what did she say?
According to Lost Easter Eggs, she said, "I'm not the only one," or "I'm not alone." Which means...? She's not the only one who came to the island or someone else is coming after her. Weirdness.
Why are men more fertile on the island? (Especially if pregnant women inevitably die?)
I found it interesting that they confirmed twice that the island has special healing properties. Both with the sperm count and with Mikhail's line about it only taking a day to heal. That's the first time we've heard officially that these properties exist, isn't it?
What is the purpose of Juliet leaving messages for Ben, and checking up on all the women? Will it relate to the "see you in a week" promise we saw from Ben earlier?
I really liked this scene. It gave a little more meaning to what Juliet is doing in the Losties camp. And that she's doing it against her will.
Flight 815 found with no survivors: what the hell?
That was the big shocker of this episode. I have no idea. I don't buy the "Others faked the crash" theory...where would they get another plane? That just doesn't make sense. I literally don't have a clue about this one, but it's exciting!
Why did Naomi come to the island?
To look for Desmond. She knew he was there, but she was surprised when Hurley mentioned Flight 815, so clearly she's not there to look for them.
I really liked this episode...a lot. They answered a ton of questions but asked more...I can't wait for the next one. But I don't want it to be over! The thought of waiting until January doesn't appeal to me.
{"commentId":667260,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"ryaninc"}
- 8 votes
#6 - Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:10 AM EDT{"commentId":667515,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
According to Lost Easter Eggs, she said, "I'm not the only one," or "I'm not alone." Which means...? She's not the only one who came to the island or someone else is coming after her. Weirdness.
Penny is on the Island.
Okay:
If Desmond had let Charlie Die -- "he" would have come across Penny on the Island when the search crew split up over a dispute in directions.
But, because Charlie didn't die -- Jin came across the Portuguese woman first, and called Desmond back. So, in Desmond's flashes -- he was seeing flashes of both possible futures (Charlie alive, and Charlie dead) which is why Charlie was there holding the tarp in the flashes. THe flashes just didn't distinguish which future each flash was from.
So, the question becomes: Where is Penny?
{"commentId":667515,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":667754,"authorDomain":"polymer"}
That's exactly what I was thinking...that it was too strange that Jin and Desmond were both convinced that they were going in the right direction, and yet Jin was the first to find something in the search. Desmond, being confused over his visions, assumed that they had found what they were looking for (Penny) and apparently forgot that he was heading somewhere else.
And going on his shifty eyes, I'd guess that this is where Mikhail was off to with the sat-phone, to find Naomi's "companion".
{"commentId":667754,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"polymer"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":667338,"authorDomain":"sguido"}
A pretty good episode with some good shocking moments and a 1/2 decent backstory. I'm not a fan of Jin/Sun, but I'm with Steven on this one .. it revealed some interesting tidbits.
{"commentId":667338,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"sguido"}
#7 - Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:59 AM EDT{"commentId":667368,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
I really enjoyed the storylines of the episode, both in the flashbacks and the main plot. I do think, however, that this episode revealed strongly (to me at least) that Yunjin Kim (Sun) is a much stronger Korean-language actress than English. I enjoy her performances so much more in her flashbacks when she is speaking Korean... she has a whole new degree of animation and can convey so many more emotions in the inflections of her voice... so in this episode all of her scenes on the island left me a bit disappointed.
As to the questions:
-I don't think Mikhail died... just severely injured and the island healed him. The entire series has alluded to healing properties of the island. Locke's ability to walk, Rose's cancer remission, Locke's leg injury (from when Boone died) healing extra quickly, the fact that nobody (except I guess Ben) gets cancer on the island.
Given her message to Ben at the end, I think she was genuinely surprised, so the Others aren't really omniscient. I also got a different vibe from Juliet this episode. Her message at the end seemed to indicate she's really angry at Ben for making her do this, and she was genuine in wanting to help Sun even if it did also benefit Ben's needs. But then, she pulled the wool over our eyes pretty well a couple episodes back, so...
-There really was no way for them to know. It's been established that the information about the Losties' pasts came from an information network off of the island and at the time Sun got pregnant there were no more covert Others in their camp.
Re: Juliet we've seen in her flashbacks that at one time she was genuinely a caring and honest person and in both flashbacks and island episodes we've seen that she hates Ben, so I'm completely willing to assume that anything duplicitous she does against the Losties is through some kind of motivation from Ben - whether it be another way off the island or what. Additionally, she had no reason to fake the "I hate you" at the end of the episode. Sun was outside, the tape recorder was off so I think it's fair to assume she wasn't trying any trickery in that scene.
-During the episode I was already certain that he was lying. If you saw the look on his face he was obviously not telling the truth. The translation above of "I'm not alone" is interesting though, and I am anxious for her to explain things next week (though she probably won't).
-I'd guess men are more fertile in relation to the island's super-healing properties. It probably does something to the body to make regular functions work overtime. This whole "pregnant women die" thing, though, doesn't really jive with that so I don't know where that comes in.
-I really have no idea about the crash thing. That's a kind of cool twist. I voted "fake crash" because I don't think Naomi is lying and I've hated the purgatory theory since season one. I'd rather have an Alice in Wonderland ending where the entire thing is Locke's dream and all the Losties and Others are various co-workers/people in his life.
-I think it's clear from the book, the picture, and the fact that Naomi knew Desmond's name that she was there for him. I never really thought she was looking for the 815 survivors.
Sorry about the ugly formatting of this post. Haven't had enough coffee to make my posts look pretty yet.
{"commentId":667368,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
- 6 votes
#8 - Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:15 AM EDT{"commentId":667489,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
How is Mikhail alive? Who did he think he was approaching from the flare?
Well, he seems to believe that it had something to do with the healing powers of the Island.
Seeing as the Others seem to have the implausible ability to plan ahead for unforeseeable events -- I'm just going to assume that Mikhail always walks around with an alka-seltzer to pop into his mouth and bleedy ear squibs. You know: For those times where you need to pretend you're foaming at the mouth and bleeding from the ears after being pushed through a "sonic fence" wink wink.
(The best part of his ruse: They climbed over a fence that didn't exist! Ha ha!)
Did Juliet/Others really not know that Sun was pregnant?
I don't think it's possible that they could have known. Unless her undeveloped fetus is an Other. Which is confusingly possible.
Was Mikhail telling the truth about what Naomi was saying? If not, what did she say?
I think he told the truth right up until the "thank you for saving me" line.
Why are men more fertile on the island? (Especially if pregnant women inevitably die?)
Smoke beast. Made up entirely of sperm.
What is the purpose of Juliet leaving messages for Ben, and checking up on all the women? Will it relate to the "see you in a week" promise we saw from Ben earlier?
I suspect that Juliet is now reluctantly forced to work for Ben. I only suspect this because we've been "yet again" provided one line of useful information which completely negates what we've been led to believe about someone throughout an entire episode. Those writers are so crafty.
Flight 815 found with no survivors: what the hell?
It either points to a split in the space time continuum (in which case their are "two" flight 815s) or a Dharma Initiative cover-up. I'm expecting the latter.
Why did Naomi come to the island?
I still think she was sent by Desmond's girl, Penny.
Brian's Cheers of the Week
- Charlie was making more sense than everyone else. Everyone hates Charlie, so I thought I'd throw him a bone. Letting Mikhail go seemed really stupid.
- I kind of like the development that Sun hated Jin for what he was doing -- but she was the person who doomed him to that role. Clever.
Brian's Jeers of the Week
Desmond's line about the Losties having killed more others than the other way around.
Every death on the Island is a direct result of choices made by the Others since the plane crash.
- The choice to jab needles into pregnant women in the middle of the night.
- The choice to kidnap people and look creepy as all hell just before you do so.
- The choice to attempt to kill charlie by hanging him.
- The choice to hold someone's son for ransom, resulting in the death of two innocent people.
- The choice to withhold information and protection from stranded castaways, resulting in death by Smoke Best.
- The choice to blow up Michael's escape raft, knowing full well that the death of the people "on" the boat was the goal.
- Forcing people to live in cages while your men beat them senseless.
Is it possible that the Losties have the higher count in the "killed or be killed" tally? Sure. That's pretty much the fault of the Others, though. They're in control -- they're responsible.
In conclusion: They should have either killed Mikhail or taken him prisoner.
I'm also a bit concerned about next week. Locke looks to be setting Sawyer up, and that points to further cooperation between Locke and the Others. I hate that development!
{"commentId":667489,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 6 votes
#9 - Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:06 AM EDT{"commentId":667779,"authorDomain":"polymer"}
(The best part of his ruse: They climbed over a fence that didn't exist! Ha ha!)
Going by what happened with Kate and Juliet, I'd have to argue that the fence does exist. Whether it actually affects humans might be up for debate, but it did seem to repel Ol' Smokey. Then again, Juliet did essentially drag Kate through the disabled fence before turning it on, so maybe it does work on people.
{"commentId":667779,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"polymer"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":668164,"authorDomain":"sguido"}
Well, he seems to believe that it had something to do with the healing powers of the Island.
Seeing as the Others seem to have the implausible ability to plan ahead for unforeseeable events -- I'm just going to assume that Mikhail always walks around with an alka-seltzer to pop into his mouth and bleedy ear squibs. You know: For those times where you need to pretend you're foaming at the mouth and bleeding from the ears after being pushed through a "sonic fence" wink wink.
There are really only 2 options
1) He faked the whole thing
2) He was "shocked" (but didn't die) and the islands quick healing powers healed him very quickly
I think after his comments about Naomi last night, this points to #2.
I suspect that Juliet is now reluctantly forced to work for Ben. I only suspect this because we've been "yet again" provided one line of useful information which completely negates what we've been led to believe about someone throughout an entire episode. Those writers are so crafty.
You brought me to the dark side Brian .. I'm with you now. Juliet gave 1 hint ages ago, asking Jack to kill Ben and then *nothing* else, until that line last night. It's simply a story hole.. or the desire to "swerve" the audience just for swerving sake.
{"commentId":668164,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"sguido"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":668201,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
You brought me to the dark side Brian .. I'm with you now. Juliet gave 1 hint ages ago, asking Jack to kill Ben and then *nothing* else, until that line last night. It's simply a story hole.. or the desire to "swerve" the audience just for swerving sake.
I dunno, I thought her flashbacks detailed a good timeline through which Juliet went from willing and happy participant to mildly upset to desperate to leave the island and basically being kept there by Ben. I even said last week that either Juliet is working some angle against Ben or he's holding yet another way off the island over her.
{"commentId":668201,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":668228,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
I don't mind her progression, Eric -- I'm bored with the "this week on the Island, we lead you to believe "this" about Juliet" writing. It's just another indication that "guessing" is pointless as they can just write in a line or two of dialogue to mix things up. With Juliet -- they've done that at least 5 or 6 times.
But, I think (at this point) it's fairly certain that she's reluctantly helping Ben -- who she truly doesn't like.
(Until next week, when we find out the "I hate you" line was just put there in case a Losty found the recording. The others always cover their tracks!)
{"commentId":668228,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":668299,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
Until next week, when we find out the "I hate you" line was just put there in case a Losty found the recording.
Ha. Well, in fairness, in this case she turned off the recorder before she said that.
But I do think the writers are certainly lacking a sense of cohesiveness and believability. In season one the coincidences and action seemed more than just a vehicle to move the story forward. In this season the writers' touch is so obvious you can practically see the pencil marks on the screen.
{"commentId":668299,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":669116,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
Well, in fairness, in this case she turned off the recorder before she said that.
Did she? I didn't notice that. I was operating under the impression that she recorded that as well.
It's even "more" odd that she said it to herself, really.
They led us to believe that she was still "in with Ben" two or three episodes ago -- only to reveal that she wasn't really (with no real change in plot to prompt the reversal) via a spoken thought?
Pfft.
{"commentId":669116,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":670203,"authorDomain":"sguido"}
lacking a sense of cohesiveness
Perfect way to put it.
Did she? I didn't notice that. I was operating under the impression that she recorded that as well.
It's even "more" odd that she said it to herself, really.
Actually I think this makes more sense to her character. It shows she's doing something for Ben even though she doesn't want to do it. I think this is part of her punishment/repentants for shooting that other "Other".
They led us to believe that she was still "in with Ben" two or three episodes ago -- only to reveal that she wasn't really (with no real change in plot to prompt the reversal) via a spoken thought?
Agree .. they could have easily had a 2 sec scene following that Ben scene to show some type of regret.. instead we got the evil look from Juliet.
{"commentId":670203,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"sguido"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":667673,"authorDomain":"stacym"}
Was Mikhail telling the truth about what Naomi was saying? If not, what did she say?
I speak a little Italian, and when Mikhail translated that line by Naomi I called bull@!$%#. Not only was there nothing close to "thank you", "rescuing" or "saving", but "my life" would of been feminine and what she said sounded masculine to me. But being that it's been a few years and I don't have a TiVo or anything, so I couldn't catch what she actually said. But I was looking around to see if someone else had it, and I found a site that claims:
When Mikhail tells Desmond that Naomi said, "Thank you," (or something along those lines), it sounds like she's speaking Brazilian Portuguese and she's saying,"Eu não estou só," which translates to "I'm not the only one," or "I'm not alone." This is possibly in conjunction with the discovery of the backpack containing the book entitled "Ardil 22" the Portuguese-language version of "Catch 22."
How is Mikhail alive?
Do you think Locke knew that he wouldn't kill Mikhail when he threw him into the fence? (In Par Avion)
{"commentId":667673,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"stacym"}
- 4 votes
#10 - Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:16 AM EDT{"commentId":670024,"authorDomain":"softfacts"}
Do you think Locke knew that he wouldn't kill Mikhail when he threw him into the fence? (In Par Avion)
I certainly do. Locke's a nutter but I've never seen anything in his character to suggest he'd kill a man like that. Mikhail even thanks him after being thrown through! No, I smell a flashback of he and Locke sharing a little quality time where Mikhail drops some knowledge on him in return for his release. I'd further speculate that this conversation leads to Locke getting the idea (and thinking it's his own) to blow up the sub. Certainly the fence keeps Ol' Smokey out but I'd guess it's harmless to people and Benry's clique tells the Others it's dangerous as a ploy to keep people from running off, hence Juliet thinking otherwise.
{"commentId":670024,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"softfacts"}
{"commentId":669199,"authorDomain":"Hotrat"}
Great episode! I was wondering if someone could clear something up for me though? What was Charlie's reason for dragging Sun into the jungle during Season 2? This was addressed in the Loochies episode and it seems highly relevant considering Sun's pregnancy, or I just missed something...
{"commentId":669199,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"Hotrat"}
#11 - Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:09 PM EDT{"commentId":669322,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
His goal was to make Locke look bad. He was working in conjunction with Sawyer. Sawyer had goals of his own -- but I think they revolved around a diversion enabling him to nab the guns. And, somehow, doing so was the "making Locke look bad" part.
{"commentId":669322,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":669332,"authorDomain":"gzirra"}
Gzirra's additional thoughts:
- Naomi stated that Everyone on 815 died. She specifically didn't say "there were no survivors" - which means all names/bodies were found and/or recovered to match the flight's manifest (or Widmore or Piak Corporations are in cahoots and provided fake evidence). I really hope the writers don't try to tap dance out of that statement with a "no survivors were found" backpedal.
- The whole "quick-island-healing" thing. Leaves the writers a HUGE (and quite ugly) escape hatch to bring people back from the dead and change past explanations (something I hate):
- The Others can claim Charlie wasn't really hung to death, because Ethan knew the Losties were close behind and the good Doctor would be able to revive him with the island's help.
- Ethan isn't really dead (either are Goodwin or Pritchard(?)?) - their 'bodies' were recovered by the Others and they were giving a quick but life-refreshing alcohol rub-down with clean gauze. Can we expect more Other Zombies in the future?
- Because the Losties didn't know this, they buried their dead and now it's too late to save them?
- Why can't pregnant women be healed by the island?
- I stick by my theory that Fenry can't be healed on the island because he's native (if indeed that isn't a lie).
- Locke. Is he really having Sawyer kill Fenry, or trying to con him into thinking it's Fenry when in reality it's the Man from Tallahasse? And what could possibly be Locke's motivation for killing Fenry? Fenry lied to him? Well boo hoo - at least he didn't take your kidney.
Gzirra's long-term jeer:
No one has noticed this wonderful island healing aside from Rose, Bernard, and Locke? They live in the jungle fer cryin' out loud! No one's gotten a scrape or bruise that was magically gone in record time (like Kate's bear-cage scabbed wrists)?
{"commentId":669332,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"gzirra"}
- 2 votes
#12 - Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:52 PM EDT{"commentId":669795,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
Well as far as quick island healing, I'm willing to believe you have to still be alive for this to work. Like, the fence messed up Mikhail seriously (and we still don't know what it did to him) but he was able to come back. Ana stabbed Goodwin in the heart and Charlie emptied several rounds into Ethan (plus he was buried) so I don't think we'll have too many old zombies returning.
re: Locke I totally think he's going to bring back Man from Talahassee and I totally think he's going to try and get Sawyer to kill him.
{"commentId":669795,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":669897,"authorDomain":"gzirra"}
Ana actually impailed Goodwin - not sure if it was just his chest or actual heart. Maybe I've been watching too much Heroes and seen Claire and Peter self-healing after they're already dead?
Locke I totally think he's going to bring back Man from Talahassee and I totally think he's going to try and get Sawyer to kill him.
But why? Why not kill his dad himself? What satisfaction is there in tricking (conning) someone else to complete your revenge for your, when it's your father who stole your kidney and then chucked you out of a high-rise?
{"commentId":669897,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"gzirra"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":669953,"authorDomain":"Hotrat"}
With the whole "zombie" revival/healing properties it looks as though we may actually see Christian Shephard in the Finale. That would be quite a bang to go out on...
{"commentId":669953,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"Hotrat"}
{"commentId":669986,"authorDomain":"softfacts"}
But why? Why not kill his dad himself? What satisfaction is there in tricking (conning) someone else to complete your revenge for your, when it's your father who stole your kidney and then chucked you out of a high-rise?
Locke doesn't want to get on the island's naughty list and he knows that taking the life of another life will do that. Ben knows this, too, and employs guys like Ethan to do his dirty work for him so that there's no blood personally on his hands. I'm guessing Ethan knew very little about much of the island's mystic nature just like Juliet knew nothing of Ol' Smokey.
This island punishes the wicked. The Nikki and Paulo Show proved that. It doesn't give a @!$%# what someone else may or may not have done to you in the past. There is a moral line that is drawn and when you cross it you get a visit from the Karma Cloud. Sure, Charlie would have been killed by Ethan if Jack hadn't saved him but when Charlie killed Ethan he crossed that line and I believe that's why Desmond works overtime for the Hobbit Patrol.
You guys don't have to agree with the islands magical moral compass -- how it weighs good and evil -- but it's undoubtedly there.
{"commentId":669986,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"softfacts"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":670034,"authorDomain":"softfacts"}
It's time people started differentiating between "The Others" as a whole and Benry's gang of thugs. They're not all on the same page. Benry is definitely acting behind the backs of the people he represents...
Remember when Jack went out to the jungle to meet them about Michael and they pulled their little torch trick to multiply their perceived numbers? Clearly there are enough Others around that they could've shown their manpower advantage without resorting to deception... but they didn't. Why? The only thing that makes sense here is that Benry and his handful of cronies are keeping the exact details about their interactions with the Losties a secret and putting spin on it back at camp to keep his tribe weary of them. Too many people are complaining about the Others doing this and that to the Losties when it's really only a handful of people who are actually responsible. I've yet to see any proof that the organization as a whole is bent on evil.
{"commentId":670034,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"softfacts"}
#13 - Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:06 AM EDT{"commentId":670227,"authorDomain":"sguido"}
I've yet to see any proof that the organization as a whole is bent on evil.
Well there have been castaways sitting on an island and not one of them has done *anything* to help them, that to me is rather evil. We haven't been given a true glimpse on the other sides of things to see how their society breaks down.
Personally I don't think they are "evil". I just think they are doing what they believe is right - and their right - and if that ends in other people getting hurt, so be it.
{"commentId":670227,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"sguido"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":670309,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
Well there have been castaways sitting on an island and not one of them has done *anything* to help them, that to me is rather evil. We haven't been given a true glimpse on the other sides of things to see how their society breaks down.
Well I'm with Obleo here because if you remember the episode with Juliet's trial, the stewardess was there and asked Jack "How's Ana Lucia?" So it's alluded to that at least some part of the "Others" don't know fully what's going on.
{"commentId":670309,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":672625,"authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
Let me float a question out there from way back when. When Season 3 was getting ready to start, the creators said at various points that something was coming around the middle of the season that would be really big, and inevitably some people would pinpoint that moment as when the show "jumped the shark."
For a 22-episode season, the middle would be around episode 11. So going one forward and one back, the supposed "shark-jump" moment would've taken place in one of these episodes: Tricia Tanaka is dead, Enter 77, or Par Avian.
Now, looking over my own "Big Reveal" moments for those three episodes...
Kate has sought out the help of Danielle to retrieve Jack from the Others' camp.
The eyepatch man is Mikhail, purportedly a survivor of "the purge" and resident of the Flame hatch for the last eleven years. The DHARMA Initiative knew about the presence of people on the island and prepared contingencies when creating hatches.
Christian Shepherd, Jack's father, is also the father of Claire; Jack seems to be a willing captive of the Others.
So here's the question: where was the shark-jump? Some of those were big (particularly about Mikhail), but I wouldn't say it was when the show skewed in a radically new direction. Anyone else have ideas of what the creators could've been referring to?
{"commentId":672625,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
- 2 votes
#14 - Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:37 PM EDT{"commentId":672840,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
Locke going over to the others?
Actually, none of those things really seem "shark jumpey" to me, though.
Jumping the shark should be something that seems to be a desperate attempt to reinvigorate interest in a show. Something so crazy and kooky that it has to be a all or nothing proposition.
And, really -- nothing seems to fit that bill for me this Season. As much as I don't "like" the direction that plot seems to be heading in, I haven't really been "shocked" by the direction or any of the reveals.
The one possibility: Locke's dad on the Island.
{"commentId":672840,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":672845,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
I really want the Losties to be in a boat of somekind and somehow actually have to jump over a shark in the ocean. I would laugh for days.
{"commentId":672845,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":673132,"authorDomain":"gzirra"}
The only "shark jump" I can think of is "Razzle Dazzle!" (ep 14? not too far from the middle of the season and an episode that launched a Bruce orbiting space shuttle. If anything comes close to a shark jump, it's an entire episode devoted to the Loochies (and giving in to audience demand to rid the island of them as well - all done with tongue, teeth, trachea, small & large intestine, and Billy Dee Williams firmly planted in cheek).
My other suggestion (that has nothing to do with what the creators mentioned) would be the looong, drawn out head-fake-whups-sorry-but-that-wasn't-really-a-head-fake style answers (that, when revealed, we've pretty much figured out anyway) and conspicuous rewriting of the past to match new plot lines that have taken on the Fonzarelli dare.
{"commentId":673132,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"gzirra"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":675523,"authorDomain":"polymer"}
If I remember correctly, "Exposé" was the episode that would supposedly make Lost jump the shark. According to the producers in the official podcast, that episode, revolving around those characters in particular, would be so far out that any already-disaffected viewers would probably tune out for good out of sheer confusion and frustration.
I think most true Lost fans were receptive to it, however, and could see the cheekiness in the Nikki and Paolo episode. And since the show's been hitting on all cylinders lately, I can't imagine that viewers were so put off by "Exposé" that they would ignore all the momentum building up to the season finale.
{"commentId":675523,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"polymer"}
{"commentId":673411,"authorDomain":"zaki"}
I really hope the shocking news at the end of the episode really goes somewhere.
Is this a big trueman show? Why is the outside world told that they're all dead?
Is the Darma Initiative even bigger than we thought? Government-involved?
{"commentId":673411,"threadId":"97575","contentId":"681228","authorDomain":"zaki"}
- 1 vote
#15 - Sun Apr 29, 2007 12:45 AM EDT{"canLink":false,"threadId":"97575","isPrivate":false}
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