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STEVE WATTS
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Member Since: 3/2006Last Seen: 11/28/2009
Member Since: 3/2006Last Seen: 11/28/2009
220 Comments
PrintLitV: Kate Finds a New Role in "Eggtown"
News Type: Other — Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:35 PM EST
Live Poll
What did you think of this episode?
- Fantastic49%
- Pretty good41%
- Mediocre9%
- Terrible1%
Total Votes: 807
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Kate flashes forward to a courtroom drama, while Locke's desperation for answers and Jack's concern for Sayid and Desmond start to boil over with the Freighties.
ABC Preview:
Kate's need to get information out of the hostage may jeopardize her standing with Locke - as well as with Sawyer.
Note: "Lost in the Vines" is made for discussion of the series "Lost" on ABC. As such, here be spoilers! We talk frankly about the events of the night, speculate about future events, and so on. Read no further if you don't want spoilers.
Flash-forward: Kate
The Big Reveal: Kate is mothering baby Aaron, who is presumably being passed off as her legitimate son.
Summary
(Flash-forwards are in Italicized text. Commercial breaks are noted.)
Locke wakes up and begins making eggs and slicing cantelope for breakfast. He takes a book, and brings the breakfast and reading material down some stairs, opening a lock and giving it to Ben. He tells him they're the last two eggs. Ben looks at the book and dismissively says he already read it, but Locke says he might catch something he missed. Ben asks why he was moved down here, and Locke said he wants him under his own roof. Ben asks where he's keeping the other prisoner, Miles. Locke presses Ben for information on the freighter spy. Ben laughs and says he feels for him, because he keeps hitting dead ends: the cabin, Jacob, and now he's so desperate he's even asking Ben for help. He says it's just like old times except he's locked in a different room, and Locke is more lost than he ever was. Locke smiles and says he knows what he's trying to do and it's not going to work. He takes it and shuts the door, locking it behind him. As he walks down the hall, he slams the tray against the wall. Ben hears.
Kate asks Claire what the tantrum was for, and Claire just shrugs saying it's Locke. Sawyer greets them and Claire goes to make him a cup of coffee. Sawyer sits to relax and comments that it's weird how they're living here now. Kate interrupts and says she's not moving in with him, but Sawyer asks what she's doing here. She says she has another agenda, and Sawyer presses her for info thinking she's spying for Jack. She says that's not it, but refuses to tell him the real reason because she doesn't trust him.
Kate talks to her lawyer, Duncan Forrester, about using a back entrance, but he tells her to go in the front door with her head held high. She exits the vehicle, wading through the crowd of reporters and photographers calling her "murderer." She finds herself in a courtroom, the People vs Katherine Austin, being tried for her crimes. She pleads "not guilty." The prosecution demands that she be put in jail, but defense argues that she has a recognizable face and couldn't run. The judge remands her into federal custody, and she's put in handcuffs.
-------------
Jin and Sun talk about where to go after they leave, but they disagree. Jin says he'll learn English for her, to live in America with her. She says that she wants to raise her baby at home, in Korea. He asks if she means their baby, and she doesn't respond. Jack brings Daniel and Charlotte to meet the other survivors and Sun asks where Kate is. Jack simply says that she stayed with Locke.
Kate walks in on Locke as he wipes blood off his hands. He says he killed a chicken. Kate asks to speak with Miles and Locke asks why. She says it's personal and Locke refuses. He tells her it's not a democracy. Kate says she guesses it's a dictatorship. He says if he were a dictator he would just shoot her and go about her day. Kate walks away and sees Hurley carrying Miles' lunch. She offers to take it for him, and Hurley accidentally lets slip Miles' location. He pauses as he realizes that he was tricked, and asks if she's going to let him go. She says no, and he asks her not to tell Locke it was him.
Kate walks to the boat house where Miles is being kept and walks inside. Miles asks if the Arab traded her too, and she sits down. She asks if he knows who she is, and what she did. Miles asks what she did, and she says to just answer the question. Miles offers a deal, but she refuses to let him go. He says he doesn't want to be let go, because he's where he wants to be. What he wants is one minute of someone's time. Bring him, and he'll tell Kate everything. She asks who, and Miles says: who do you think?
Kate visits with Duncan in prison. He says that the DA is going to be pushing hard and they may want to cut a deal. She asks what kind, and he suggests settling for a 7-year sentence. She refuses, but he says she's going to get life otherwise; she confessed to her mother, Diane Jansen, and she's the star witness. She says to be put on the stand, but the lawyer says he doesn't want her to be cross-examined. Duncan suggests that it be about character, not about what she did or didn't do but about who she is. The lawyer talks about bringing "him" in to get sympathy, and Kate refuses. She tells him flatly that he's not going to use her son.
-------------
Jack continues to try the satellite phone and Juliet says they should try 9-1-1. Sun asks what's wrong and he says they haven't heard from the boat. Sun asks, what if Locke is right, if they're here to hurt them? Jack shrugs off Locke, but then Sun asks why Kate is with him.
Claire and Kate talk about Locke moving Ben into his own house. Aaron cries and Claire asks her to help. Kate looks a little nervous and says she's not good with babies and wouldn't want him to get upset. Claire picks him up instead and Kate compliments her and she laughs, saying the last thing she thought she'd be good at is being a mom. She jokes that Kate should try it sometime.
In court, Kate is put on trial. Duncan regretfully calls Dr. Jack Shepherd to the stand. He enters and the prosecution objects, but the judge overrules and simply reminds the jury that he's a character witness only. Jack swears in, and the lawyer asks how he met the defendant. Jack explains about the plane crash, Oceanic 815. He asks if Jack was aware she was a fugitive, and Jack says that he learned that from Kate later. The lawyer asks if Jack ever asked if she was guilty, and he says he assumed there had been some kind of mistake. The lawyer asks why he never wondered. Jack says that only 8 of them survived the crash and that he was in the water, and that if she hadn't come to save him he would've been dead along with everyone else. Jack says that she tried to save the other two but they didn't make it, and Kate interrupts. The lawyer says he has no more questions. The prosecution crosses and asks if Jack loves the defendant. Jack waits a few moments, and then says no, not anymore.
Hurley watches a video while Sawyer reads. There's a knock on the door and Sawyer answers to find Kate inviting herself in. Sawyer takes Kate to the kitchen and breaks out the boxed wine. Sawyer observes that she's terrible at being subtle, and that she should just come straight out and tell him that she wants to use him for something. He asks what, and she says Ben. She needs Sawyer's help to bust him out.
-------------
Locke greets Sawyer and they agree to play some backgammon. Locke asks Sawyer about the perception of his leadership; Sawyer says he's fine, and everyone else is just a sheep. He says he's not sure about Kate, though, and asks his word that he's not going to do anything to her. Sawyer starts to leave when Locke doesn't respond, but Locke stops him and asks what he means. Sawyer explains Kate's plan to break Ben out, how Miles requested it, and how Hurley spilled the secret. Locke draws a gun and gives Sawyer a flashlight, saying whatever Miles has to say to Ben, he can say to him. They run down to the boat house and Miles is no where to be found.
Kate leads Miles, still tied at the wrists, down to Locke's basement to talk to Ben. She breaks off the lock and shoves Miles in, and says he has one minute. Miles asks for privacy and Kate insists to hurry, not leaving. Miles asks if Ben knows who he is, and who he works for. Ben says yes. Miles says he put a lot of time and energy into finding him, and now he can tell him exactly where he is. Miles says he could lie and say Ben is already dead, and will do so for $3.2 million. Ben acts surprised, and asks how he thinks he has access to that money. Miles yells not to treat him like one of them, and that he knows what he can do. Miles says he has two days. Ben says his situation is restricted, and Miles gives him a week, and asks for the money in cash. Kate shoves Miles out of the room and demands what he knows about her. Miles says they know all about the passengers on 815, including her, and outlines her crimes. Miles says that his recommendation is to stay here on the island, act like she didn't survive the crash. Locke busts in with Sawyer and finds them, and yells at Kate to go back to her house.
-------------
Kate rests in her room and Claire asks if she's okay. Kate asks if she woke Aaron and Claire says he can sleep through anything. The two are interrupted by Locke, who asks to speak with Kate alone. Claire leaves, and Locke says he doesn't need to know why she did what she did; he just wants to know what they told each other. Kate outlines Miles' blackmail, and she starts to apologize. Locke tells her she's not welcome anymore and he wants her gone by morning.
Kate waits for her case to begin again and Duncan wheels in her mother, giving the two privacy. Diane asks if what Jack said is true. Greeted with silence, she asks why Kate won't talk to her, who responds that last time she tried her mother screamed and called for the police. Diane says she doesn't want to fight, and that everything changed when she thought Kate was dead. The doctors gave her 6 months to live for the last four years and she doesn't know how long she's going to last. She came to tell Kate she doesn't want to testify against her. Kate tells her not to testify, and her mother says she wants to see her grandson. Kate realizes she just came to make a deal, and says she doesn't want Diane anywhere near her son. She starts calling that they're finished.
Kate walks into Sawyer's bedroom, and he apologizes for giving her up. He says he wanted Locke to think he was fooled too so they Locke would still trust one of them. Kate says she was banished and Sawyer says he unbanishes her, and she can live there with him. He says he'll keep her safe. The two kiss and fall into bed.
Charlotte quizzes Daniel on cards, and he gets 2/3 right. She says it's progress, and he asks how three cards is really progress. Jack comes and asks why they can't get in touch with the boat. Jack asks if there's only one line, and Charlotte says there is an emergency line. Juliet claims it's an emergency and Charlotte dials it. Regina answers and asks why she dialed that number. Charlotte asks about the helicopter, and Regina asks what they mean, and that she thought the helicopter was still with them.
-------------
Locke comes in to Miles, who's now tied up. Locke tells him to open his mouth and puts a grenade inside, and pulls the pin. He introduces himself as John Locke, and says he's responsible for the well-being of the island. He says eventually Miles is going to tell him who he is and why he's interested in Ben. In the meantime, he's going to keep his mouth shut. Locke says that the grenade won't explode as long as he keeps his mouth shut, and he leaves, telling him to enjoy his breakfast.
Kate wakes up next to Sawyer and the two kiss, again, and she tells him to slow down. He says he gets that they didn't go all the way last night, but how can she resist. She turns away and he says she still thinks she might be pregnant. She says she's not worried and she's not pregnant. Sawyer seems relieved and she asks if it would've been the worse thing in the world, and he says yes, and asks what they would've done with a baby. Kate says she's going back to the beach. Sawyer argues not to make it about him, and that she didn't want a baby either. He says this is just an excuse to split, and that in a week she'll get pissed at Jack and come back to him. She slaps him and walks out of the room.
In court, the prosecution approaches the bench and says that Diane can't make it due to medical reasons. The judge gives them until after lunch, and the defense and prosecution talk privately.
In another room, the prosecution offers four years, and Duncan argues for no jail time after all she's been through. He says with all that and then rescuing her mother from an abusive husband, the prosecution doesn't have a leg to stand on. The prosecution offers time served plus 10 years probation as long as she doesn't leave the state. Kate agrees and says she walks out the back door, and that she just wants it to be over. The prosecution stresses that she stays put in the state, and Kate says that she has a child and she's not going anywhere.
Kate walks to a taxi in the back of the courtroom when Jack sees her. She thanks him for saying what he did. Kate says he's said that story so many times she's starting to think he believes it. Jack tells her that he didn't mean what he said in there, referring to being in love with her. Kate asks if he wants to come by for a visit, and he says he has to get over to the hospital, but maybe they can get coffee sometime. Kate says she knows why he doesn't want to see the baby, but until he wants to, they can't be together. But, she says, if he changes his mind any time he can come and see them. The two say goodbye and Kate's cab rolls off. Jack watches Kate leave.
The taxi pulls up to a plush suburban home, and she comes in and hugs her nanny. The nanny says she just put him down for a nap, and Kate walks upstairs to see a little blonde boy laying in bed. He yawns and she cries as she sees him. She says: "hello Aaron."
Cut to LOST
The Big Questions:
Who are the eight that supposedly survived the crash? Who are the two that Jack claims didn't make it?
Who does Miles work for that has put time and energy into finding Ben?
Why exactly $3.2 million? How does Ben have access to that kind of money?
What medical situation caused Diane not to testify?
What was the purpose of Daniel and Charlotte's "card quiz"?
Why hasn't Frank's helicopter arrived at the freighter?
Why doesn't Jack want to see Aaron?
How did Kate come to be the de facto mother for Aaron? Does the world at large know it's not hers?
Lost in the Vines Prediction Contest Bonus Questions:
99. Will we discover the truth (in whole or in part) of the reason behind the card-quiz game?
Next, on Lost:
The Constant - Sayid and Desmond hit a bit of turbulence on the way to the freighter, which causes Desmond to experience some unexpected side effects.
40 Votes- Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
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62
7.7
{"commentId":1495515,"authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
Alright, a lot to like about this episode, and some to dislike. I voted "Pretty Good." I tend to have a bias against Kate-centric episodes, because quite frankly they tend to bore me. This one was slightly dull due to knowing the outcome of her court case -- we've already seen her a free woman afterwards. But at the same time seeing what led up to that was pretty interesting. This was a very self-contained episode. The story both on-island and off pushed the narrative forward without raising too many "WTF" mysteries.
I'm curious what that book is that Locke gave to Ben. Usually those are fun easter eggs. When I get my DVR I can pause for such information, but I swear they put stuff like that in just to get Tivo in business.
Now before I get into my Cheers, Jeers and Questions, let me remind everybody that the LitV Prediction Contest is still on, and I can always use help farming the Master List for answers.
Steve's Cheers
- Plenty of Hurley, between being "Scooby-Doo'd" and the wink, always good for a laugh.
- Locke's grenade stunt reeked of badass
- Sawyer: "Yes, it would be the worst thing in the world!" I LOL'd.
- The Aaron twist was one I actually didn't see coming, while simultaneously letting me brag that I was nearly right several months ago. That also means that when Kate referred to Aaron as the "he" in last season's finale, he would've been something like 4 or 5 years old, considering during this court case he was already maybe 2 or 3.
- It looks like next week will be either Desmond-centric or feature him heavily.
Steve's Jeers
- The "new Oceanic Six" member was Kate, which we already knew.
- Despite aforementioned badassness, Locke seems genuinely frustrated and clueless. Worse yet, Ben knows that he's frustrated and clueless. I hate it when they neuter Locke.
- Miles, a gateway to real answers when talking to Ben? Of course not.
Questions
Who are the eight that supposedly survived the crash? Who are the two that Jack claims didn't make it?
It seems strange to me that the claim is that there were originally eight survivors and only six survived past a certain point. It's a lie that's not irreducibly complex, and when trying to get stories straight that's a good rule to go by. Why not just say there were six? I have a thought on this, more on that in a moment.
Why exactly $3.2 million? How does Ben have access to that kind of money?
This is also strange. We know Miles is a greedy bastard, but why such a specific sum of money? Why not round it up to $4 million? It must be for some specific purpose that costs exactly that much.
What medical situation caused Diane not to testify?
This could just be her illness getting the best of her, but it seemed her proposed deal was to see Kate's son in order not to testify. Kate refused, but she still didn't testify. Oddly convenient timing for a medical relapse, so that's suspicious.
What was the purpose of Daniel and Charlotte's "card quiz"?
This one strikes me as one of the bigger questions of the night. The others have more to do with narrative or character motivations, but this was... what? They gave it more screen time than a passing card game between friends, and Daniel expressed doubt that only three cards meant anything. Of course, we don't know what fifty-two cards would've meant either, so...
Why doesn't Jack want to see Aaron?
Surely Jack knows that it's Aaron, right? The implication during that scene was that he didn't want to see Sawyer's baby, I think that's where they were guiding us. But the reveal that it's Aaron makes it confusing. Jack delivered Aaron, he's spent time around Aaron, and he clearly has no problem lying to people about who survived. Heck, he did it on the stand. There's no reason for him to be opposed to seeing Aaron, knowing it's not really Sawyer's kid. It seemed like an audience fake-out.
How did Kate come to be the de facto mother for Aaron? Does the world at large know it's not hers?
And here's where I refer back to my first answered question. I think the assumption is that Kate is pretending Aaron is her actual son, but I say: not necessarily. If the claim is that there were eight survivors, and that Kate was the one administering first-aid, the story could also go that Aaron's natural mother was one of the two that didn't make it. Since Kate would have delivered the baby under this particular lie, she would naturally be the mother figure -- especially since, so far, we don't know of any other females who are the Six.
That also brings up the question: is Aaron one of the Oceanic Six? I tend to think the term would only apply to adults and Aaron wouldn't count, so we still have three left to go.
{"commentId":1495515,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
- 12 votes
#1 - Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:02 PM EST{"commentId":1495654,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
It looks like next week will be either Desmond-centric or feature him heavily.
That's cheating, but I concede that finding out that Desmond would be featured heavily next week was the best thing about this week's episode.
They gave it more screen time than a passing card game between friends, and Daniel expressed doubt that only three cards meant anything.
I was under the impression that out of 3 cards, he was frustrated that he could only memorize 2. She seemed to think it was an improvement, he seemed to think that it was still troubling. Something is up with his memory.
is Aaron one of the Oceanic Six? I tend to think the term would only apply to adults and Aaron wouldn't count, so we still have three left to go.
My friends feel this way too, but my thought is that if 6 people are rescued, and one is a delivered baby, why wouldn't he count?
{"commentId":1495654,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1495785,"authorDomain":"gzirra"}
That also brings up the question: is Aaron one of the Oceanic Six?
My friends feel this way too, but my thought is that if 6 people are rescued, and one is a delivered baby, why wouldn't he count?
This is yet another way for the writers to pull a "Gotcha!" that is neither clever nor interesting.â€
"Think you've figured out who the Oceanic Six are? Guess Again... Next Week On LOST!"
*queue the fly-by letters*
†unless, of course, my hair brained theory in comment #6 comes to fruition, in which case the writers are brilliant!
{"commentId":1495785,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"gzirra"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1495959,"authorDomain":"softfacts"}
I came away with the impression that Jack doesn't want to see Aaron because he feels guilty about something. Jack's responsible for leading the Other-Others to the island and if Claire wound up six-feet under as a result of that then seeing Aaron again might be too much for him to take.
{"commentId":1495959,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"softfacts"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1496322,"authorDomain":"chutro"}
2 left to go, Hurley, Sayid, Jack and Kate = 4. Isn't Aaron Jack's nephew, or could be? Didn't his father have an affair with Claire's mom? And Claire wouldn't see him (Jack's father)? I don't know why that bugs Jack, but my best guess.
{"commentId":1496322,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"chutro"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1496334,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
If the claim is that there were eight survivors, and that Kate was the one administering first-aid, the story could also go that Aaron's natural mother was one of the two that didn't make it. Since Kate would have delivered the baby under this particular lie, she would naturally be the mother figure -- especially since, so far, we don't know of any other females who are the Six.
If the "official story" played out like that, though, would Diane be so desperate to "see her grandson"?
{"commentId":1496334,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":1496485,"authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
{"commentId":1496533,"authorDomain":"jimceler"}
The "new" Oceanic 6 member is Aaron, isn't it?
{"commentId":1496533,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"jimceler"}
{"commentId":1496553,"authorDomain":"julieann"}
Just a bit nitpicky on my end (other than that, I LOVED your review):
Jack helped Claire prenatally, but he didn't deliver him. Kate (with Charlie and Jin present/assisting) did. Jack was transfusing Boone in the tent back at the caves. So it actually kinda justifies the rationale that Claire would probably trust Kate with Aaron for whatever reason -- she's the one who delivered him!
{"commentId":1496553,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"julieann"}
{"commentId":1497147,"authorDomain":"heathersriddle"}
I'm pretty sure that since all the ads said that another one fo the Oceanic 6 was to be revealed, that it WAS Aaron that they were referring to. That leaves us only ONE left. We have Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, and Aaron. That leaves only one vacant spot.
{"commentId":1497147,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"heathersriddle"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1497210,"authorDomain":"verticalchurch"}
RE: Jack not wanting to see Aaron.
Let's not forget that Claire is (still unbeknownsed to Jack) Jack's half-sister. I think Claire, Kate, Aaron, and Hurley make it back to Camp Jack. I think Jack and Claire find out the truth about their past and their relationship to one another (maybe via the freighter people). I believe if the people on the freighter know everything about everything about each person on the plane manifest then surely they have stumbled upon the fact that Claire is Jack's half-sister.
I believe that Claire (w/ Aaron) was one of the "original" eight survivors (and that might be the vision Desmond saw). Remember, the Oceanic 6 are the people that actually got back and are actually alive. The eight they mentioned might just refer to the people that got on the helicopter (again, accounting for Desmond vision of Claire and Aaron getting off the island) but apparently two of them don't make it back to the real world. I think eventually Claire comes across a medical emergency that Jack has to save her. Unfortunately, Jack does not succeed in saving her newly found half-sister. Claire dies. The overwhelming guilt of that event might account for Jack not wanting to see Aaron.
{"commentId":1497210,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"verticalchurch"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":1497262,"authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
{"commentId":1497302,"authorDomain":"casphase"}
That also brings up the question: is Aaron one of the Oceanic Six?
I do not think Aaron would be counted as one of the Oceanic Six because he wasn't on the flight manifest. I think the Oceanic Six are only those that were on the manifest. Also, let's not forget that Desmond, Ben and Juliet were also not on the manifest since they were not on the plane crash so we don't know if they were also "rescued". Obviously Ben was so we may be seeing more of Juliet and Desmond too.
What medical situation caused Diane not to testify?
I think this was a lie because her mother didn't want to testify any more.
What was the purpose of Daniel and Charlotte's "card quiz"?
I agree with the other person who said that this card quiz was meant to show that Daniel's memory was poor while on the island.
Why doesn't Jack want to see Aaron?
God, i have no idea. I originally thought it was because it was Sawyers, but when she said Aaron then i was confused. I don't think it has anything to do with him being his nephew either. I think it is more than that.
How did Kate come to be the de facto mother for Aaron? Does the world at large know it's not hers?
This is a tough one. In this episode Kate didn't want anything to do with Aaron, she wouldn't even pick him up. At first i thought it was because she was pregnant and scared, but when she said she wasn't pregnant then i was even more confused. I'm assuming from this that Claire died and is one of the 8 that they say survived the crash. Unless they purposely lied saying she did not survive the crash so that Kate could pass Aaron off as her own. I'm stumped.
{"commentId":1497302,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"casphase"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1497339,"authorDomain":"verticalchurch"}
As a sidenote, the book that Locke gave Ben to read was VALIS by Phillip K. Dick. I think that was interesting choice.
{"commentId":1497339,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"verticalchurch"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1497370,"authorDomain":"releme"}
The new ocean 6 member was Aaron. we already knew about kate
{"commentId":1497370,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"releme"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1497399,"authorDomain":"mcooper"}
I wouldn't be surprised if Aaron was not considered one of the 6. Think about it.. he was born on the island... not a member of the flight manifest so can he really be considered a passenger on Oceanic 815?? Besides I heard that Jin and Sun were the last 2 members of the 6.
{"commentId":1497399,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"mcooper"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1497402,"authorDomain":"mmacklin"}
Remember that Aaron is Jack's nephew because Claire is is half sister!
{"commentId":1497402,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"mmacklin"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1497833,"authorDomain":"starsineyes96"}
Jack didn't deliver Aaron; Kate did. Remember, Jack was too busy trying to save Boone went Claire went into labor, so he sent Kate with instructions on what to do? That may or may not have something to do with it, too.
{"commentId":1497833,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"starsineyes96"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1516285,"authorDomain":"denirob4"}
I don't think Aaron is one of the six since he wasn't on the original manifest. Just my opinion.
{"commentId":1516285,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"denirob4"}
{"commentId":1495637,"authorDomain":"grillmaster78"}
Steve,
I believe Kate' s mother had cold feet about taking the stand after they had their meeting, at least that's what I think the laywer said. Also, that leaves two to go (Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hugo.) I'm very excited about next week, Desmond has always been my favorite character. This episode was good as usual in my opinion, a week is too long to wait for the next episode.
{"commentId":1495637,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"grillmaster78"}
- 1 vote
#2 - Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:54 PM EST{"commentId":1495639,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
Who are the eight that supposedly survived the crash? Who are the two that Jack claims didn't make it?
6
Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hurley, Aaron and (?)
2
Claire and (?)
Who does Miles work for that has put time and energy into finding Ben?
I'm sticking with Abbadon.
Why exactly $3.2 million? How does Ben have access to that kind of money?
I'm stealing another answer this week: My friend felt like Ben and Miles were talking in code. The questsions (and answers) were so bizarre, so out of place, that I agree that something more had to be going on.
What medical situation caused Diane not to testify?
A made up one. I think it's called deusexmachinitus.
What was the purpose of Daniel and Charlotte's "card quiz"?
Daniel seems to have some sort of short term memory loss, but I've yet to figure out the newcomers.
Why hasn't Frank's helicopter arrived at the freighter?
Time disparity. I'd say given the speed of the Helicopter vs. the Speed of the Payload, they'll be losing even more time than the payload.
Why doesn't Jack want to see Aaron?
This is a hard one for me. Jack has to know that it wasn't Kate's baby, because he would have seen the baby rescued. If he finds out that Aaron is his nephew, I don't know why he wouldn't want to see him. The only thing I can think is if Kate getting the baby off the Island caused some other negative, which Jack is ashamed of...
How did Kate come to be the de facto mother for Aaron? Does the world at large know it's not hers?
Well, Kate's mom is really interested in seeing the kid, and that sort of desire wouldn't feel right if she knew Aaron wasn't Kate's child. I think the world at large believes that Kate was pregnant on the plane, and gave birth to Aaron on the Island. That's why I include him in the 6.
Brian's Cheers
- I honestly didn't like this episode enough to cheer anything.
Brian's Jeers
- The courtroom scenes were ridiculous. Unbelievable, poorly written, the works. So, her mom won't testify -- how does that get Kate off the hook for fraud, grand theft, larceny, etc? Kate's lawyer calls Jack out of necessity, only asks him one question, which Jack doesn't even finish answering, and then is shocked to discover that the Prosecutor also gets to ask him a question? OBJECTION!
- Boy, I'm really starting to dislike Locke. I hate that the writers have done that. He's essentially becoming very Ben like in his actions, and that bores the pants off me.
- Kate episodes are lame, in general.
- Especially when the Sawyer/Kate/Jack sandwich is a plot element.
- Too many new mysteries, no focus on existing mysteries.
- The whole "Oceanic 6" development feels like stalling.
I give this "worst episode" thus far.
Oh, and I called the "aaron" twist when Kate and Claire were talking by the clothesline.
{"commentId":1495639,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 5 votes
#3 - Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:55 PM EST{"commentId":1495774,"authorDomain":"gzirra"}
I give this "worst episode" thus far.
You mean of this season, right?
{"commentId":1495774,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"gzirra"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1495949,"authorDomain":"softfacts"}
I give this "worst episode" thus far.
I'll second that. This episode just seemed to spin it's wheels needlessly. But it looks like Locke is fast-tracking his insanity so that's a good time to be had in the near future. The next episode looks like a good one, too.
{"commentId":1495949,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"softfacts"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1496338,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
Kate episodes are lame, in general.
As I told my friend last night, the writer's strike almost made me forget how much I hate Kate episodes.
{"commentId":1496338,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1496356,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
You mean of this season, right?
Yeah.
My bone of contention with this season so far is the same issue I had last season, before it hit that awesome streak of episodes:
Lost is least interesting when the Island takes back seat to the characters. Part of that is ignoring existing plot lines to develop new ones, I'm sure, but also that the Island is just far more interesting than any of the characters.
The mystery of how Kate ended up with Aaron? Boring as hell.
The mystery of how a mysterious smoke beast plays on the morality of people of the Island? Really, really interesting.
The mystery of which six people get off the Island? Boring as hell.
The mystery of how dead people seem to still play a role in people's lives on the Island? Really, really interesting.
Or, what about the mystery of why babies can't be born on the Island, or the mystery of why Desmond could see into the future, or the mystery of why Locke can walk again, or the mystery of why the writers can't seem to write a consistent character? All interesting, all ignored so far.
But, beyond that: There's a whole contingent of Others missing. No one has mentioned them once.
Once again, the writers have put people back in the position of feeling like everything we know so far is worthless, and I hate feeling like I'm forgetting key aspects of the mystery because the writers are simply having another A.D.D. moment with the plot.
In general, Lost is like a puzzle, except they're making us do it on the blank side. I worry that they're going to turn the puzzle over, and some of the pieces are still going to be blank. (And some of those "still blank" pieces are going to be mysteries that need to be solved to justify sticking with Lost through 2010.)
Also, it's just messed up to give 30 seconds of Desmond at the end of one episode and then completely ignore him for all of the next episode.
Oh, and I agree with all the suggestions that Daniel's "card game" may have been a "psychic test" and not a "memory test." The wording means it could go either way, but the former does seem more likely, now that I think about it.
{"commentId":1496356,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":1496572,"authorDomain":"gzirra"}
But, beyond that: There's a whole contingent of Others missing. No one has mentioned them once.
Exactly. What are they doing, just hanging out on the prison island playing shuffleboard? And not only Others, but Originals who became Others, too.
In general, Lost is like a puzzle, except they're making us do it on the blank side. I worry that they're going to turn the puzzle over, and some of the pieces are still going to be blank
I'm worried that they're showing us a jigsaw puzzle and in the end will tell us "Oh, we're playing Soduku, didn't you KNOW that?"
Once again, the writers have put people back in the position of feeling like everything we know so far is worthless, and I hate feeling like I'm forgetting key aspects of the mystery because the writers are simply having another A.D.D. moment with the plot.
One reason Dexter is such a great series. There's something to be said for a 12 episode self-contained season. No useless 4-6 episodes wasted on redundant character history to help you flesh out an 18 or 24 episode season. You get right to the meat of the plot and stick with it all season long. Unlike say, that whole "pre-season" group of episodes from season three where they were virtually devoid of advancing the overall story of the Island and the other good mysteries. And please, don't even mention the Loochies.
{"commentId":1496572,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"gzirra"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1496590,"authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}
Just as a side note - I wonder how you would feel about it if just watching through the season the first time on DVD instead of watching doled out week after week.
Anyway just some thoughts of my own. First I would say that Aaron is a member of the Oceanic Six, and that Kate was not the promised reveal. I call it good for being unexpected, and also makes me doubt that Sawyer made it off the island.
Locke is becoming more Ben like. Note how he claimed to be the protector of the island. My guess is the Island (in the form of Jacob) is seeking help (for what, I don't know). So, first is recruits Ben but he goes astray. Now its recruited Locke but it looks like he is going to make the same mistakes as Ben. It is possible that Hurley is a third recruit but who knows where that will lead.
{"commentId":1496590,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1496736,"authorDomain":"gzirra"}
Just as a side note - I wonder how you would feel about it if just watching through the season the first time on DVD instead of watching doled out week after week.
That's how I watched the first season - on DVD. I almost didn't make it through several episodes - mainly the Boone, Kate, and Charlie-centric ones - the plot lines that had nothing to do with the Island's mysteries and were just about people who had annoying or pathetic lives in their flashbacks. Same song, different key.
{"commentId":1496736,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"gzirra"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1498185,"authorDomain":"kai"}
Lost is least interesting when the Island takes back seat to the characters. Part of that is ignoring existing plot lines to develop new ones, I'm sure, but also that the Island is just far more interesting than any of the characters.
I have to strongly agree. In the first couple seasons I was just completely enthralled and obsessed about new discoveries and adventures on the island (when they found the hatch!!!).
This season just lost (no pun) that adventure factor that the island itself brought to it. Dharma mysteries, hidden hatches, discovering old ruins, etc. Do you think ABC cut the budget because of the writers strike so they just have to make do focusing on the people vs the sets?
{"commentId":1498185,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"kai"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":4774915,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}
wonder how you would feel about it if just watching through the season the first time on DVD instead of watching doled out week after week.
That's how I'm watching this season and one thing that has thrown me is the amount of focus on the comments on the teasers for the next week, something which is not included in the dvd which has confused me a few times.
btw if someone didnt mention it already wasn't 32 or 3.2 million one of the magic numbers? and doesnt the number references make you want to go rent Pi again?
{"commentId":4774915,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
{"commentId":4775956,"authorDomain":"superman2001"}
I think the reason we were focusing so much on the teasers is because we didn't know who the Oceanic Six were, and the big tease after each episode was "Watch next week as another of the Oceanic Six is revealed".
The numbers are 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42.
{"commentId":4775956,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"superman2001"}
{"commentId":4851010,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}
That makes sense and as I talk about in my interview with Steve here one of the reasons I really want to catch up with this series (I’ve been averaging an episode a day for two weeks) is so I can be part of these exchanges as they happen instead of coming in after the fact
I stand corrected on the number
{"commentId":4851010,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
{"commentId":4851713,"authorDomain":"superman2001"}
I watched an episode last night from Season One, about Hurley winning the lottery with the numbers, and noticed that they mentioned that it had been 16 weeks since anyone had won. Didn't think anything of it the first time I saw that episode, because it was actually our introduction to the numbers, I believe.
But now, every time I hear a number, I'm doing the math to see if it adds up to 108. I was wondering what the significance of $3.2 million is myself, and all I could come up with was 23 inverted.
Anyways, can't wait for next Wednesday!!!!
{"commentId":4851713,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"superman2001"}
{"commentId":1495652,"authorDomain":"melissa-3"}
If Jack and Claire are half-siblings, as a past show suggested, Aaron would be his nephew.
In the future, post-island, we have been shown Kate, Jack, Hurley and Sayid... so wouldn't that make only 2 of the Oceanic Six yet to be revealed, not 3?
{"commentId":1495652,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"melissa-3"}
- 2 votes
#4 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:00 AM EST{"commentId":1497252,"authorDomain":"andip"}
Did anyone else see Sun and Jin on the plane behind Jack in the first episode of this season?
{"commentId":1497252,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"andip"}
{"commentId":1495768,"authorDomain":"gzirra"}
Who are the eight that supposedly survived the crash? Who are the two that Jack claims didn't make it?
What's interesting is that they made Jack, Straight-Arrow-Doctor-Man, lie on the stand. Which *pukingly* made it "okay" for him to lie about his love for Kate in some "see, I was lying about everything on the stand" kind of way that Kate could relate to.
Bleeeeaaaach!
What medical situation caused Diane not to testify?
A severe case of "BadParentitis"
What was the purpose of Daniel and Charlotte's "card quiz"?
To give the audience a tiny bit of the new story line during a tiresome Kate-centric episode.
Why hasn't Frank's helicopter arrived at the freighter?
Light dispersion / time disparity / island cloaking related.
Why doesn't Jack want to see Aaron?
See below for my hair-brained theory
How did Kate come to be the de facto mother for Aaron? Does the world at large know it's not hers?
Who says it's not the Kate/Sawyer lovechild? She may not have been pregnant the night before she told Sawyer, but who's to say one night in bangkok Montezuma's Castle couldn't change that? Maybe Claire and Aaron don't make it off the island, and Kate names her baby after Aaron. Maybe Aaron is his middle name. Maybe I'm so tired of getting abdominally harrassed by the writers that I feel like I'm pregnant.
Lost in the Vines Prediction Contest Bonus Questions:
99. Will we discover the truth (in whole or in part) of the reason behind the card-quiz game?
Yes - wholly so - in this season during a Daniel flash-back (the Foobies seem to have the flash-backs while the Originals are now in future-flash mode until Desmond pushes another button or something.
Gzirra's overall impressions
yawn.
Gzirra's Cheers
- Locke, while not EFWAK, was SABMWAM (Slicing A Breakfast Melon With A Machete).
- Locke putting the screws to Miles. Unfortunately, I highly doubt it will pay off in any meaningful way.
- Sawyer had some good lines, as per Sawyer.
Gzirra's Jeers
- See Brian's Jeers, then multiply by 2.
- Locke, trying to play Fenry's game, is sooooo upset he's been one-upped that he throws a baby-tantrum right outside Fenry's pen. Bzzzzt! Thanks for playing Locke, but you get the home game. And no, you can't be the racecar.
- The Kate/Jack/Sawyer thing is still going? Excuse me while I remove the fork from my eye.
- I'm with Brian, the "Oceanic 6" thing is a complete stall so they can slowly answer real questions even more slowly. Any takers on if they can stretch it another episode or two past the O-Six to reveal the supposed other two of the eight who didn't make it for their own special future-flashes?
- We all knew Kate would not be sent to prison... leaving very little worthwhile about this episode overall.
- Kate and Claire pinning up freshly washed linens, and yet Kate looks like she's just been released from the polar bear cage, and doesn't bother cleaning up for the entire episode. Has she no personal hygiene?
{"commentId":1495768,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"gzirra"}
- 5 votes
#5 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:53 AM EST{"commentId":1496004,"authorDomain":"TheInventor"}
Who are the eight that supposedly survived the crash? Who are the two that Jack claims didn't make it?
Jack, Kate, Syed, Hurley, Arron(he was old enuf), and #6 IS Ben, or didn't you see Syed getting patched up after he got shot and had to "finish his job" as a hitman after he fell in live with his target?
The two that didn't make it were the father and Walt who left the island on the small boat.
Who does Miles work for that has put time and energy into finding Ben?
The big Tall black man in a suit who sent them along with Parachute girl, or maybe Penny. Could it be the Hanso Foundation which is still upset at Ben for killing off most of the researchers and cutting them off from the Islands 'resources'?
Why exactly $3.2 million? How does Ben have access to that kind of money?
The Others have been comming and going to and from the Island for years. All that equipment had to come from somewhere. Milo is a psychic, thief, highly strung and greedy. He knows how much is in Ben's CamanIsland Bank account. Ben could go back in time in his sub, deposit $1000.00 in an interest baring account, compounded daily, return to the island, leave the island by sub again, now in the present, and viola' the money has grown to $3.2 million...
What medical situation caused Diane not to testify?
Could be a case of BadParentitis, it been known to happen. She could have collapsed, or got to see Arron, or maybe got an invitation to an Island get away...for some healing...
What was the purpose of Daniel and Charlotte's "card quiz"?
Looked to be three card monte... Faraday is a scientist, the other is some kind of researcher, they may have been trying to evaluate the islands affect on them. They are aware of the islands properties. Notice that they didn't want to leave yet, least not until each has fullfilled their individual assignment of finding Ben, Testing time travel, and their personel agenda.
Why hasn't Frank's helicopter arrived at the freighter?
Well, as been hinted by the previews, the copter is experiencng some technical difficulties. Don't forget the magnetic annomally is now unchecked, and back in its original condition/configuration prior to the Dharma Initiative's meddling with it, and having to discharge the buildup of magnetic energy. Helecopters, ships and other craft used magnetic compasses before GPS, so it will be affected by a magnetic storm / natural discharge as they reach the outer margin.
Why doesn't Jack want to see Aaron?
Claire is not Arron's natural mother. If you remember she is a surrogate mother, so Arron is not 'her's'. Jack's father did the insemination procedure on his daughter. I don't believe we know who the genetic parents are yet. I have feeling it going to be a real shocker.
How did Kate come to be the de facto mother for Aaron? Does the world at large know it's not hers?
Claire didn't want to leave the island, Kate promised to be a good mother. Maybe.
Lost in the Vines Prediction Contest Bonus Questions:
99. Will we discover the truth (in whole or in part) of the reason behind the card-quiz game?
In the Card-Guessing game, you are testing your PSI powers, mind reading, knowing what the card face is before you turn it over, sensitivity to the Island... Hurley and Locke, Hurley made the cabin disappear... but before he did he saw two men in the cabin.
{"commentId":1496004,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"TheInventor"}
- 1 vote
#6 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:07 AM EST{"commentId":1511663,"authorDomain":"amazingsdj"}
re: Claire is not Arron's natural mother. If you remember she is a surrogate mother, so Arron is not 'her's'. Jack's father did the insemination procedure on his daughter.
Claire wasn't a surrogate. She got preggers with her boyfriend that flipped out and left her when she moved in and started hanging up curtains.
{"commentId":1511663,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"amazingsdj"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1496147,"authorDomain":"andeygirl"}
I believe something happens involving the Freighties (or their boss) that causes most of the Oceanic survivors and all of the Others (except Ben) to die and those who survive actually lose their memory and the past gets rewritten?? This could mean that while we know Jack was lying on the stand, he thought he was telling the truth. And that Kate really believes Aaron is her son. And why else would Sayid be working for Ben (previous episode). Think of the card quiz game. And remember the scenes from an episode or two back where the Freighties are all seen reacting to the 'discovery' of Oceanic 815 (where most of the plane is in the ocean) as if they knew nothing about it. I think that was a flash-forward to after the Freighties had been on the island but before the Oceanic Six were rescued.
{"commentId":1496147,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"andeygirl"}
- 3 votes
#7 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:47 AM EST{"commentId":1496198,"authorDomain":"shamrock-girl57"}
Andey: Wow...I think this is an intriguing theory!!!! But maybe their "memories" were not overwritten sufficiently (by Dharma/Mittelos/Ben) and they come back bit by bit?
{"commentId":1496198,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"shamrock-girl57"}
{"commentId":1496270,"authorDomain":"rjajfeist"}
I think you have to look back to the previous episode when daniel caled the ship and had something shot to him and he counted down to when it should hit, but it didn't. It landed 35 minutes late. I think this shows that time is different on the island then anywhere else. It would be easy to remember what the cards were for 1 minute, but very hard after 35 minutes and that is what the card game was about.
{"commentId":1496270,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"rjajfeist"}
{"commentId":1496318,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
This could mean that while we know Jack was lying on the stand, he thought he was telling the truth.
This can't really be, because Kate says: "I've heard you tell that story so many times, it's almost as though you believe it."
I think they're well aware of what happened, and I certainly don't think everyone else on the Island dies.
{"commentId":1496318,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1498198,"authorDomain":"kai"}
I think they're well aware of what happened, and I certainly don't think everyone else on the Island dies.
Of course they know. Remember in the closer of last season when Jack said 'we have to go back, kate!'? They're hiding the secrets of the island and its inhabitants for a reason.
{"commentId":1498198,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"kai"}
{"commentId":1496169,"authorDomain":"shamrock-girl57"}
1) I think it's possible that Jack somehow caused or could not prevent Claire's death - that's why he doesn't feel comfortable around the baby.
2) I do not think Daniel was memorizing cards - he was trying to "see" them psychically (I know that's not a word, but...)
{"commentId":1496169,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"shamrock-girl57"}
- 2 votes
#8 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:54 AM EST{"commentId":1496203,"authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
{"commentId":1496362,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
Anyone else catch the logos on the back of the cards? They looked like Dharma cards. Why would they have Dharma cards? I can't really believe Jack, Juliet, Desmond or Sayid were just carrying them around.
{"commentId":1496362,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1496380,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
I can't really believe Jack, Juliet, Desmond or Sayid were just carrying them around.
Oh, I can believe that. Almost all of their supplies are Dharma supplies. They got those "drops" which were filled with Dharma stuff, and they probably took a bunch of stuff from the hatch before it exploded, too.
Oh, also:
I hereby dub Kate: "Dingo"
As in, "Dingo stole my baby!"
{"commentId":1496380,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1496433,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
Oh, I can believe that. Almost all of their supplies are Dharma supplies. They got those "drops" which were filled with Dharma stuff, and they probably took a bunch of stuff from the hatch before it exploded, too.
Why would they carry playing cards though? I don't think we've ever seen anyone play cards on the island so far?
{"commentId":1496433,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
{"commentId":1496515,"authorDomain":"gzirra"}
I hereby dub Kate: "Dingo"
As in, "Dingo stole my baby!"
That nickname would be far more interesting if it were the actual quote: "The Dingo ate my baby!"
{"commentId":1496515,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"gzirra"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1496585,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
Actually, if we're going to be picky, isn't it:
Apparently, there was a band on the Buffy series called "Dingoes Ate My Baby" though.
{"commentId":1496585,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1496611,"authorDomain":"gzirra"}
My bad - I always remembered it as "ate."
{"commentId":1496611,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"gzirra"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1496618,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
Me too. I blame Seinfeld.
{"commentId":1496618,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1497893,"authorDomain":"starsineyes96"}
I thought maybe Daniel knew about the island's "healing powers" or something, and that's what the card game was about, to see if he had imporvement on his apparent memory problem. All of the Freighties seem to have some sort of knowledge of what to expect on the island so far, so, it's possible.
{"commentId":1497893,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"starsineyes96"}
{"commentId":1498351,"authorDomain":"amazingsdj"}
What about "the dingbat's got my baby!"?
{"commentId":1498351,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"amazingsdj"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1501011,"authorDomain":"JBBois"}
Why would they carry playing cards though? I don't think we've ever seen anyone play cards on the island so far?
They did play cards. Jack and Sawyer had a poker faceoff in 2x17 "Lockdown". They look like the same/similar cards
{"commentId":1501011,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"JBBois"}
{"commentId":1496195,"authorDomain":"scott-4"}
Aaron was the member of the Oceanic Six that was revealed. And that means we have only one to go (Aaron, Kate, Jack, Hurley, Sayid). You're making way too much of Kate's mom's illness. It seems plain that her mother became unwilling to testify, and the prosecution used her medical condition as an excuse for a continuance of the trial. Nothing more than a delaying tactic to give themselves time to regroup, and maybe persuade her to testify.
It may be that Jack has, in the interim, become aware that Aaron is his step-nephew, and he has some angst about that. (What? You forgot about that?)
{"commentId":1496195,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"scott-4"}
#9 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:12 AM EST{"commentId":1496219,"authorDomain":"elvo86"}
Who are the eight that supposedly survived the crash? Who are the two that Jack claims didn't make it?
Jack, Sayid, Kate, Hurley... Sun, Jin, Sawyer, and Charlie.
Jin and Charlie don't make it.
Who does Miles work for that has put time and energy into finding Ben?
I'm going with Abbadon too.
Why exactly $3.2 million? How does Ben have access to that kind of money?
...and why does he have all those passports? Those are connected. The money is for something random--Miles is crazy...
What medical situation caused Diane not to testify?
They made that up. She just doesn't want to.
What was the purpose of Daniel and Charlotte's "card quiz"?
Daniel clearly has some mental problems--short-term memory loss. Maybe he's a subject of some scientific experimentation.
Why hasn't Frank's helicopter arrived at the freighter?
The time warp! Plus, there are obviously complications based on the teaser.
Why doesn't Jack want to see Aaron?
Jack's a weirdo. He's taking a stand to not acknowledge it's hers.
How did Kate come to be the de facto mother for Aaron? Does the world at large know it's not hers?
The world doesn't know, and that's why she doesn't want her mother to see him (she'd realize it immediately). Kate steals her from Claire before leaving.
Lost in the Vines Prediction Contest Bonus Questions:
99. Will we discover the truth (in whole or in part) of the reason behind the card-quiz game?
Yeah, in part.
{"commentId":1496219,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"elvo86"}
- 2 votes
#10 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:24 AM EST{"commentId":1496235,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
Who does Miles work for that has put time and energy into finding Ben?
The Economist
Why exactly $3.2 million? How does Ben have access to that kind of money?
He's clearly head of something in his double life. Probably has stuff invested to fund his mainland vacations
What medical situation caused Diane not to testify?
I'm guessing lung cancer since she smoked all the time.
What was the purpose of Daniel and Charlotte's "card quiz"?
From Daniel's distress I think he has some serious short-term memory problems; probably part of the reason he's so spacey.
Why hasn't Frank's helicopter arrived at the freighter?
Either he missed his bearing or it landed and Minkowski is busy interrogating them.
Why doesn't Jack want to see Aaron?
The lie he told in court was the price he paid for getting off the island, but he's not ready to sell out Claire and buy into Kate's lie.
How did Kate come to be the de facto mother for Aaron? Does the world at large know it's not hers?
Because she's crazy and stole him. Looks like psychic man's terrible prophecy will come true.
Lost in the Vines Prediction Contest Bonus Questions:
99. Will we discover the truth (in whole or in part) of the reason behind the card-quiz game?
I think we'll find out some of what's wrong with Daniel, yes.
{"commentId":1496235,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
- 2 votes
#11 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:37 AM EST{"commentId":1496256,"authorDomain":"melissa-w"}
I thought the episode was awesome. I guessed that it was Aaron when Kate came back into the house at the end, just before they showed the baby. I think Claire may be dead. I think Kate would never be passing herself as his mother if Claire were still alive. Also, wasn't the point of Desmond's flashbacks that Charlie kept saving Claire and history kept getting "re-started." I think Claire was supposed to die. What exactly was the old psychic's prediction about Claire and the baby? I don't remember.
I'm a little disappointed that Sawyer is going along with Locke -- he usually doesn't put up with that nonsense.
{"commentId":1496256,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"melissa-w"}
- 1 vote
#12 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:53 AM EST{"commentId":1496372,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
What exactly was the old psychic's prediction about Claire and the baby? I don't remember.
He said "Don't let anyone else raise this baby."
Oops.
{"commentId":1496372,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1496686,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
Wasn't he also sort of exposed as a fraud?
{"commentId":1496686,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1496729,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
Wasn't he also sort of exposed as a fraud?
He bought Claire's plane ticket with his own money though didn't he?
{"commentId":1496729,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
{"commentId":1496277,"authorDomain":"spikegary"}
I think Claire is dead and Jack is somehow complicit in her death, hence the guilt and not wanting to see Aaron.
I also agree-I don't think Daniel was memorizing the cards, I believe he was trying to 'see' the cards using a '6th Sense' that the island enhances.
One other thing I don't understand is no one asks obvious questions to the players like Locke and Ben about the island, what the island is, why it is the way it is, why do the outsdiers (from the freighter) want to do harm to Ben and so on........realistically, I'd be asking 'Why' to these folks?
{"commentId":1496277,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"spikegary"}
#13 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:02 AM EST{"commentId":1503189,"authorDomain":"aebersoldsa"}
Re: Daniel and the cards
Charlotte said to him "Okay, times up. What do you remember". It seems that it is a memory test rather than a psychic one. But then again, it could just be another red herring. And then at the end she said well that's better than last time, or something like that. Maybe they are testing whether his memory is improving given the properties of the island. We don't really know Daniel's medical history/issues (?). Total speculation though, the time continuum factor is throwing me off. Among so many of the other questions.
{"commentId":1503189,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"aebersoldsa"}
{"commentId":1496312,"authorDomain":"MikeAP"}
-Why doesn't Jack want to see Aaron?
It seems to me that Jack's reluctance to see Aaron hints that something about the kid brings back some bad memories...maybe something to do with whatever happened to Claire to prevent her from being with her son? Maybe her death? Maybe something that Jack could have prevented? His unwillingness to even see Aaron seems to be the first glimpse into the emotional toll that the rescue has taken on him, which we know will eventually lead to a pretty terrible downward spiral. Even though he was able to easily lie on the stand about how many people survived the crash, Jack's not the type to be able to keep his demons inside forever..at least not without the help of a little liquor.
-How did Kate come to be the de facto mother for Aaron? Does the world at large know it's not hers?
Steve doesn't believe it's necessary for Kate to pretend Aaron is hers, since the story could easily be that the boy's mother didn't survive. But what if it is necessary? Had Claire died and her son survived, then the boy would be taken away into foster care, seeing as how Claire's only known relative (that we know of) is her mother, who is in a vegetative state, and Aaron's father walked out on her (Jack is technically a half-brother, but nobody knows this). The child may have even been sent into foster care back in Australia, since that was his mother's home country. Surely Claire would rather have had Aaron raised by someone she has grown to trust rather than a stranger.
Also, let's not forget that waaay back in season 1, a psychic told Claire that something awful would happen if anyone but her raised her child. So what about that?
{"commentId":1496312,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"MikeAP"}
- 2 votes
#14 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:13 AM EST{"commentId":1496486,"authorDomain":"Mark0428"}
Although pregnancy tests do seem readily available, since we know from Sun, Kate seemed pretty confident that she wasn't pregnant. Perhaps an infertility issue???.don't forget Claire was going to give Aaron up for adoption...Just a long shot guess!!!!!
{"commentId":1496486,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"Mark0428"}
#15 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:02 AM EST{"commentId":1496497,"authorDomain":"Mark0428"}
Although pregnancy tests do seem readily available, since we know from Sun, Kate seemed pretty confident that she wasn't pregnant. Perhaps an infertility issue???.don't forget Claire was going to give Aaron up for adoption...Just a long shot guess!!!!!
{"commentId":1496497,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"Mark0428"}
#16 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:05 AM EST{"commentId":1496518,"authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
This is fairly off-topic to island mysteries, and a superficial complaint, but I have one more Jeer.
"Eggtown"?
What the hell?
Locke made eggs in the beginning, and said they were the last ones, and then he killed a chicken, for some reason cutting off the egg supply. So I guess in that town people like them some eggs. But Eggtown? I'm not sure they could've thought of a worse or more nondescript title. Here are a few improved suggestions:
- "Kate's Adventures with Patricide"
- "You Not My Baby Daddy"
- "Kate and Me and Baby Makes Three"
- "Information We Already Know"
You may note that all of these suggestions are awful. I'd argue they're still better than "Eggtown."
{"commentId":1496518,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
- 9 votes
#17 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:12 AM EST{"commentId":1496742,"authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}
Here is what they are saying on Lostpedia about the title Eggtown:
Episode Name
Egg-town is a pejorative term that refers to the days of bartering, during the Great Depression. A traveling salesman would have to barter his candy or tobacco or shoelaces for different commodities. A poor exchange would be for eggs, a relatively common item that is also highly perishable. Nobody wants to trade for eggs from a traveling salesman because they have their own, so the salesman who accepted an egg in exchange was forced to accept a bad deal. Salesmen would use the term like "If I were you I would stay away from Bogart. That's an egg-town." Of course, the lack of trust among salesman was also high, and it was likely that one salesman would lie to another about the quality of a town's customers to keep them for himself. Invariably, the second salesman ventures into Bogart only to find it is truly an egg-town. He is either persuaded to not visit a town that has good customers or is tricked into visiting a town that can only offer eggs. The term "egg-town" represents a deal with undesirable outcomes in either case. [source needed]
References in this episode include:
* The inability of Locke to makes any progress with the interrogation of Ben or Miles.
* The deal Kate made. She is now forbidden to leave the state and thus can't legally go back to the island for any reason for at least ten years.
* The barracks turn out to be Egg-town for Miles; He tries to extort 3.2 million dollars from Ben and ends up with a grenade in his mouth instead.
* The episode starts with literal eggs: Locke preparing an omelet breakfast for Ben. He tells Ben these are the last two eggs.
* Kate's preoccupation with the chance that she might be pregnant, and the continuing references to her child in the episode's flashforwards.
* Locke's inability to establish any communication with Jacob.
* Locke kills a chicken (no more eggs).
* Kate's decision whether to leave the island and go to jail or remain on the island and die (from her hinted-at pregnancy).
{"commentId":1496742,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1496832,"authorDomain":"MikeAP"}
Also, the 1991 children's book "The Easter Egg Escapade" by John Michael Williams tells the story of Eggtown, a peaceful village where rabbits and chickens live together in harmony until a band of thieving roosters conspire to steal all of Eggtown's eggs. In order to retrieve the eggs, an unlikely group of heroes volunteers to go on the perilous journey. The ending features the redemption of the leader of the thieves.
{"commentId":1496832,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"MikeAP"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1497062,"authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
{"commentId":1497253,"authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}
It also makes me think that the deal with the DA puts Kate in a precarious situation. While Jack screams like a madman that they have to go "BAAAACK!", Kate is stuck. Not only does she clearly not want to go back, but she legally can't. So if she changes her mind anywhere down the road, she's slightly screwed.
If for some reason she decides to go back, I don't think the legality will make a difference.
{"commentId":1497253,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1498399,"authorDomain":"gzirra"}
Egg-town is a pejorative term that refers to the days of bartering,
If that's the case, then I'd say it's a direct reference to Diane's offer not to testify in exchange for meeting her grandson.
{"commentId":1498399,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"gzirra"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1496586,"authorDomain":"NateMeister"}
Some good theories, here's a couple more.......
* Jack drugged Kate's mom after he finished testifying when he realized his story wasn't enough to get Kate off the hook
* Re Desmond and the chopper........ Ever since Des "saved the world", he became forever linked to the island, so he can not leave---and survive. Sorry Penny, you'll have to come to him.....likely we'll find the chopper has "turned back to the island" to "save" Des. Expect Penny to show up in the vicinity this season - perhaps we'll see how she & Ben are linked ! Yep, it wasn't a coincidence that when the jammers got turned off that the first incoming signal to the underwater station was Penny, not the freighter!
* Don't expect Sawyer to put up with Locke's authoritative nature for too long; sooner or later they'll clash. He's a survivor, remember? While he may not get off the island, he'll still be surviving--- Kate isn't the last lady left on the island and Sawyer is a horn-dog
* The freighter captain is John Drake ;-)
* I like the idea that the $3.2m is code, maybe Miles works for Penny - or her Dad?
* BTW any of you TIVO-ites think Faraday sounds an awful lot like the tall guy at the Antartica monitoring station?
Ok, be seeing you!
{"commentId":1496586,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"NateMeister"}
- 1 vote
#18 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:32 AM EST{"commentId":1496605,"authorDomain":"NateMeister"}
Some good theories, here's a couple more.......
* Jack drugged Kate's mom after he finished testifying when he realized his story wasn't enough to get Kate off the hook
* Re Desmond and the chopper........ Ever since Des "saved the world", he became forever linked to the island, so he can not leave---and survive. Sorry Penny, you'll have to come to him.....likely we'll find the chopper has "turned back to the island" to "save" Des. Expect Penny to show up in the vicinity this season - perhaps we'll see how she & Ben are linked ! Yep, it wasn't a coincidence that when the jammers got turned off that the first incoming signal to the underwater station was Penny, not the freighter!
* Don't expect Sawyer to put up with Locke's authoritative nature for too long; sooner or later they'll clash. He's a survivor, remember? While he may not get off the island, he'll still be surviving--- Kate isn't the last lady left on the island and Sawyer is a horn-dog
* The freighter captain is John Drake ;-)
* I like the idea that the $3.2m is code, maybe Miles works for Penny - or her Dad?
* BTW any of you TIVO-ites think Faraday sounds an awful lot like the tall guy at the Antartica monitoring station?
Ok, be seeing you!
{"commentId":1496605,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"NateMeister"}
#19 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:40 AM EST{"commentId":1496612,"authorDomain":"RobynS8971"}
Steve, agree the Eggtown name is dum, dum, dum, but is it prophetic....Locke stating that's the last egg (on the island?) and 'kills' a chicken (poor husbandry planning here, Locke, a good leader will make sure his tribe is provided for in perpetuity, not short term) and then there's Kate's eggs, seems no one is laying or fertilizing anything right now.
Kate lookng at Aaron sleeping, he called her Mommy, she called him Aaron, I gasped like it was my last breath, wow, never saw that one coming...
{"commentId":1496612,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"RobynS8971"}
#20 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:41 AM EST{"commentId":1496616,"authorDomain":"comsen"}
It looks like the "him" that Kate was going back to in "Looking Glass" was Aaron.
Also, the producers during the last podcast said that Lost had common things with the Chronicles of Narnia (like the wardrobe and other transportation methods?) and that the polar bear got into the desert the same way the rabbit showed up in the off season video.
{"commentId":1496616,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"comsen"}
- 1 vote
#21 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:43 AM EST{"commentId":1496643,"authorDomain":"charlie-b"}
I don't think Claire is dead, but I do think Jack needed to make a choice of how many to get off the island and he (predictably) chose Kate over Claire, thus his unwillingness to see Aaron is caused by guilt. Perhaps the plan was to pass Kate off as Claire since it should be documented somewhere that there was a seriously pregnant woman on the flight and Kate is a fugitive, but the plan goes sour. I don't think Aaron is considered an Oceanic 6. The Oceanic Six reeks of network news sensationalism, and adults are better for the sound bite. The fact that one has a child would get folded into the human interest.
{"commentId":1496643,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"charlie-b"}
#22 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:51 AM EST{"commentId":1496717,"authorDomain":"amazingsdj"}
The book that Locke gave Ben is Valis by Philip K. Dick. This is what it says about it on
"VALIS
By Philip K. Dick
Originally published in 1981
Plot Summary:
A coterie of religious seekers forms to explore the revelatory visions of one Horselover Fat; a semi-autobiographical dialogue of PKD. The groups hermeneutical research leads to a rock musician's estate where they confront the Messiah: a two-year old named Sophia. She confirms their suspicions that an ancient, mechanical intelligence orbiting the earth has been guiding their discoveries. "
It's a bit like the island....revelatory visions (Locke), a rock musician (Charlie), a child messiah (Aaron? Walt?), mechanical intelligence (everything Dharma). That book definitely wasn't chosen by chance.
{"commentId":1496717,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"amazingsdj"}
- 3 votes
#23 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:16 AM EST{"commentId":1496747,"authorDomain":"amazingsdj"}
Sorry....I left out a couple of words. I meant "this is what is says on Phillip Dick's website:"
{"commentId":1496747,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"amazingsdj"}
{"commentId":1496778,"authorDomain":"MikeAP"}
Wow. Very interesting... speaking of "revelatory visions," do you guys remember Locke's vision awhile back in which Boone appeared as a kind of spirit guide? Locke had a vision of Charlie, Claire, and Aaron looking like a happy family, and Boone said: "They'll be fine... for awhile."
{"commentId":1496778,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"MikeAP"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1496763,"authorDomain":"shine4003"}
I think that Jack doesn't want to see Aaron, because he found out that his father had an affair with Claire, making Aaron his brother.
{"commentId":1496763,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"shine4003"}
#24 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:29 AM EST{"commentId":1496898,"authorDomain":"cjbaranello"}
No, Christian had an affair with Claire's mother - making Jack and Claire half-brother and -sister... so Jack is Aaron's uncle.
{"commentId":1496898,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"cjbaranello"}
{"commentId":1496785,"authorDomain":"stacym"}
I was disappointed in this one as well. So I don't got much to say.
Who are the eight that supposedly survived the crash?
Don't know yet. I do think that Aaron is one of them, and that was the big reveal.
Why exactly $3.2 million? How does Ben have access to that kind of money?
I like the idea suggested above that this might be code. But why would Ben question the amount if they both knew it was code? Maybe he was trying to tip off Kate?
What medical situation caused Diane not to testify?
Or - how far is Jack willing to go for Kate?
What was the purpose of Daniel and Charlotte's "card quiz"?
I wonder if this doesn't have something to do with the healing properties of the island. Maybe it is actually memory loss, and Daniel came to the island knowing that it has the ability to heal. Charlotte was studying Dharma, so she may know something about it.
Why hasn't Frank's helicopter arrived at the freighter?
Per next week's episode, it seems like they had some trouble getting back to the freighter. Maybe they had to take a detour or something.
Why doesn't Jack want to see Aaron?
I think it has something to do with guilt over the situation with Claire. Maybe she ends up wanted to leave, and gets left behind anyway, maybe they snatch Aaron because Claire won't leave, something like that. If he finds out Claire is his sister, that might intensify the guilt if he had played a part in separating them.
How did Kate come to be the de facto mother for Aaron? Does the world at large know it's not hers?
I think the world thinks it's hers, based on her mother's reaction to it.
Come on guys, certainly seeing Sawyer get slapped is a cheer.
{"commentId":1496785,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"stacym"}
- 1 vote
#25 - Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:33 AM EST{"commentId":1496900,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
I like the idea suggested above that this might be code. But why would Ben question the amount if they both knew it was code? Maybe he was trying to tip off Kate?
Well, questioning the amount may have been digging for more information in code.
In short, it felt like a "questions and answers" session. The suspicious part of the conversation is expanding Ben's two day deadline to a week. It's not as though Ben is going to be in a better position in a week, when it comes to obtaining 3.2 million dollars.
{"commentId":1496900,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1496906,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
Come on guys, certainly seeing Sawyer get slapped is a cheer.
But he was right!
Ultimately, the last thing Kate should have said was:
"Sigh. See you next week."
{"commentId":1496906,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1496959,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
I think you guys are reading too much into the medical situation. I think the mom used it as an excuse to not testify.
{"commentId":1496959,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1497077,"authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
{"commentId":1497093,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
Diane hasn't shown herself to be a very nice person, and her appearance to Kate at the courthouse clearly demonstrated a quid pro quo arrangement for her silence.
In some other comment on this thread, I complain about the writer's inability to write a consistent character.
:)
{"commentId":1497093,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1497298,"authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}
She wanted to strike a deal, and Kate refused the deal. So if the deal is off, why wouldn't she?
She wants to see her grandson. Granted Kate refused the deal, however the best play to achieve that goal would be not to testify - even under the auspice of a health problem (presuming it really wasn't one). Call it making the first gesture of goodwill.
Perhaps she wants to reconcile with Kate even if she can't bring herself to save outright. I'm guessing she already faced losing Kate once with 815 going down (I'm presuming she was informed). She is apparently facing death herself. Those two things could change a persons perspective.
{"commentId":1497298,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"fdbryant3"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1498035,"authorDomain":"stacym"}
Meh, I didn't need context. I just enjoy a good Sawyer slapping.
I agree with Steve as far as Kate's mother goes. Sure, the writers can be inconsistent, but we are talking about the same person that originally turned her over to the authorities.
Of course, I could see it not mattering at all, and the scene just being a way to establish that Kate is assumed to be the mother of Aaron.
{"commentId":1498035,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"stacym"}
{"commentId":1510117,"authorDomain":"greer"}
Steve in #30.3:
It's like the writers themselves were calling attention to it.
Yes, for sure. The writers are using Sawyer's character to call attention to things that are frustrating the viewers. They also did in Ep 4-02 when Sawyer gets pissed off and wonders aloud why they haven't killed Ben yet.
{"commentId":1510117,"threadId":"223214","contentId":"1316443","authorDomain":"greer"}
- 2 votes
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