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STEVE WATTS
Electronic Aficionado
Articles Posted: 295; Links Seeded: 1160
Member Since: 3/2006Last Seen: 11/23/2009
Member Since: 3/2006Last Seen: 11/23/2009
597 Comments
PrintLitV: The Others Start to "Follow the Leader" on Lost
News Type: Other — Wed May 6, 2009 10:35 PM EDT
Live Poll
What did you think of tonight's episode?
- Fantastic48%
- Pretty good40%
- Mediocre11%
- Terrible2%
Total Votes: 1846
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Locke asserts his leadership over the Others as Jack and Kate split on whether to enact Daniel Faraday's dangerous plan to change history.
ABC Preview:
Jack and Kate find themselves at odds over the direction to take to save their fellow island survivors, Locke further solidifies his stance as leader of "The Others," and Sawyer and Juliet come under scrutiny from the Dharma Initiative.
Note: "Lost in the Vines" is made for discussion of the series "Lost" on ABC. As such, here be spoilers! We talk frankly about the events of the night, speculate about future events, and so on. Read no further if you don't want spoilers.
The Big Reveal: Sayid has rejoined Jack and is accompanying him on Daniel's plan; Kate has refused to help and boarded the sub with Sawyer and Juliet; Locke plans to murder Jacob.
Summary
Daniel points a gun at Richard Alpert, threatening and asking about the bomb. Jack and Kate watch from the bushes. Jack asks if this is their one chance to put things back, and then they witness Daniel being shot. Jack starts to run towards him, but Kate convinces him that they should run away. As they make their escape, a young Charles Widmore hits Jack in the face from horseback and holds Kate at gunpoint. He asks who they are.
Eloise looks at Daniel's book, seeing the note left to him from her older self. Charles comes out of the jungle asking what happened. Richard explains, and asks where he found Jack and Kate. Charles says they were crouched in the bushes like rats. Eloise asks if they came with the man, and they say yes. She says to put them in her tent. Charles asks why DHARMA is declaring war on them. Eloise tells him that these people aren't from DHARMA. He asks where the hell they are from.
Thirty years later... Richard Alpert builds a ship in a bottle, when a woman comes to tell him that "he" is here. Locke approaches carrying a boar, saying he brought dinner. The two greet each other, and Richard asks where he was. Locke says he'll explain on the way. He tells Richard they have an errand to run and not a lot of time to do it. Richard says there's something different about him. Locke tells him that he has a purpose now. Richard sees Ben and Sun coming, and asks what Ben is doing here. Locke tells him that Ben helped him get back.
Privately, Sun asks Ben why Locke says they're his people. Ben explains that Locke is their leader now. Sun asks who he's talking to, and Ben says that Richard is their adviser, and he's had that job for a very long time. Sun approaches Richard with a photograph, asking if he was here in 1977. She points out the photo with her friends and asks if he was there, and if he remembers them. Richard says yes, he was here, and he remembers them. He says he remembers meeting them all very clearly because he watched them all die.
-------------
Sun contemplates by the beach, and Locke approaches. Sun asks if he thinks it's true that they're all dead. Locke tells her they didn't do all this for nothing. Richard approaches to leave, and Locke asks if he still has the compass. Richard says it's rusty but works. Locke tells Ben he'd like him to come with him. Ben asks if he's afraid he'll stage a coup, and Locke tells him he's not afraid of anything he can do anymore. Ben says in that case, he'd love to come. Locke tells Sun that he has her word that if there's a way to save everyone, he'll find it.
An Other roughs up Jack and Kate, then leaves them in the tent. Kate asks if Jack is okay as he spits blood. Kate tells him that before they were caught, he said they needed to put things back the way they were supposed to be. She asks what he means by that. Jack tells her that if they can do what Faraday said, their plane never crashes, Flight 815 lands, and everyone they lost would be alive. Kate expresses doubt about what will happen to their memories. Jack tells her that all the misery would be wiped clean, like it never happened. Kate insists that it wasn't all misery.
Eloise comes in, asking what Daniel needed the bomb for. Jack tells her that she wouldn't believe him. Eloise tells him that when she was 17 she took a young man to the bomb, and he said he was from the future. Then he vanished. And now she shot that man in the back, and he told her that he was her son. She tells Jack to explain, and she'll believe him. She shows him the book and asks how this is her handwriting if she doesn't remember writing it. Jack tells her, she hasn't written it yet. He tells her that what she just did was an accident, and there's a way to take it all back. He says that her son came back because he figured out a way to change everything. He says that if they do what's written in the journal, none of this will have happened. Eloise asks Kate if he knows what he's talking about. Kate says he thinks he does. Eloise tells him that she'll take him to the bomb, but there's one small issue. They secured it 20 years ago underground, and now there's an entire village over it. The DHARMA Initiative. She says they've been passing themselves off as members, so getting to it would be simple. Jack says, it might be more complicated than that.
Radzinsky restrains Sawyer and Juliet, and asks where Kate is. Sawyer says he wants his lawyer, and Radzinsky hits him in the face. Horace objects, but Radzinsky says he's getting results. He hits him again. Radzinsky tells Horace that he's in charge, but he doesn't have the stomach for what happens next. Radzinsky has Phil grab Sawyer by the hair and face the screen with Kate on it. Radzinsky tells her that he tells her where she is, or he'll kill him.
-------------
Radzinsky continues to beat on Sawyer, asking if he's ready to talk. Sawyer defiantly says no. Radzinksy asks where Kate took the boy again and continues beating on him. Juliet cries out and Radzinsky asks her her where they are. Juliet says they've been here three years, they're not bad people, they're not here to hurt them. Sawyer tells her not to say anything, because they won't believe her. Horace insists that the beating is pointless. Phil claims he can make him talk, then smacks Juliet. Sawyer lashes out and says he'll kill Phil. A man enters and tells him the sub's manifest included three new additions, including the two escapees and a third one. Radzinsky asks who Hugo is, and Phil tells him he's the fat guy.
Hugo stashes away food and runs through the camp, trailed by Dr. Chang. He shows Jin and Miles the food and asks about the rescue plan. Miles says they're heading to the beach. Hurley insists, DHARMA has their friends and Sawyer wouldn't leave them behind. Dr. Change approaches behind them and they point their guns asking what he's doing here. Chang says that Faraday said they were from the future, and he needs to know if he was telling the truth. He asks Hurley when he was born, and Hurley gives a fake date. He asks if Hurley is over 40, and then quizzes him on events from the past years. Hurley eventually admits they're from the future, and Chang tells them about Faraday's evacuation plan. He asks about the accident at the Swan. Miles tells him he's been right about everything so far, and if he says to get off the Island they should do it. Chang says he hopes he knows what he's doing.
Widmore looks at Daniel's body and tells Richard it looks familiar to him. Eloise approaches, saying Richard and Eric are coming with her. Charles asks where, and Eloise tells him to untie them. She asks Richard to give them a moment, and closes Daniel's eyes. She tells Charles she's taking them to the bomb. Richard unties Kate and Jack while Eloise talks to Charles. Jack asks who he is, and Richard says that he's Charles Widmore. He says that he and Eloise are... then trails off, saying love can be complicated. Eloise says to head out.
Richard asks Locke where he's been the last three years. Locke asks if he really doesn't know. Richard says when they turned the wheel there was a bright light, loud noise, and he disappeared. Locke tells him that they're going to where he disappeared, and after that he'd like to see Jacob. Ben and Richard pause, and Ben says that's not how it works. Locke presses, but Richard says there's no reason to rush it. Locke says that he is the leader now, and he wants to go to Jacob. Richard agrees, and Locke says they're going to the plane. Ben asks, what plane? The three continue to walk through the jungle until they find the crashed drug-running plane. He says they've only got about three minutes to get this right. He gives him his bag and says a man is about to walk out of the jungle. He gives him his bag and tells him he'll need it to get the bullet out. He says that Richard will need to tell the man to bring everyone back, and to do that he's going to have to die. They see Locke stumbling out of the jungle and Ben asks who it is. Locke says, me.
-------------
A younger Locke nurses his wound in the jungle, and Richard approaches him. Ben and Locke watch from a distance. Ben says this must be an out of body experience, and Locke says something like that. Ben asks how he knew when to be here. Locke says the Island told him; hasn't the Island told him things? Ben says no, and it didn't tell him where Jacob is or he wouldn't need Richard to show him. Locke says that Ben has never seen Jacob. They see Locke disappear, and Ben asks where he went. Locke says he gave his compass back. Richard approaches and says he believed him, up until the point that he said he had to die. He says it's a good thing that didn't happen. Actually, Locke says, it did. He tells him they have to get back to camp.
Chang rushes into the security station telling everyone to evacuate, then sees Sawyer bloodied and asks what's happening. Radzinsky tells him he should be drilling, but Chang says that they're under imminent threat, they can't drill. Radzinsky insists on drilling and says he's in charge now. Sawyer tells him to put women and children on the sub and get them out of here. He tells him that if they put him and Juliet on the sub too, he'll tell them anything they want to know. He asks if Juliet is okay with that, and she says absolutely. Radzinsky tells him to draw a map, so he knows exactly where the Hostiles are.
The group comes to a creek and Eloise asks if they know how to swim. She says they need to swim to get to the tunnels. Kate says she can't go any further with Jack this time. Jack tells her she can't go back there, they're trying to kill her. She asks what he's doing. Kate starts to leave, and the Others threaten her since she holds so many secrets. A scuffle breaks out, and a gunshot is heard. The Others fall down, and Sayid appears from behind the bushes, holding Eloise at gunpoint.
-------------
Richard asks Eloise what she's doing, and talks about how the man just killed two of their people. Eloise says that if these people are right, it won't matter. Alone, Sayid asks Jack about the plan to erase the last three years. Jack says they can change things. Sayid says that he already changed things, he killed Ben Linus. Kate tells him that he didn't die, and explains that he was cured by the Others. Sayid asks why she did that, and she angrily asks him why he would shoot a kid. Jack reiterates the plan, and Kate asks what if he's wrong. Jack says he's not wrong, this is why they're here, this is their destiny. Kate asks if he knows who he sounds like, because he was crazy too. Jack says maybe he was wrong. Kate says maybe he was right. She tells him she's going back to DHARMA, because if she can't stop him then maybe they can.
Miles watches the evacation, and Hurley asks why Dr. Chang is yelling at his wife. Miles observes it's the only way he can get her to leave. They notice Sawyer and Juliet there too and ask why they're getting on the sub. Hurley says that Sawyer always has a plan.
Sawyer tells Juliet that he's going to bet on the Cowboys for the '78 Super Bowl, and they'll be rich. He apologizes for getting her into all this, but she thanks him. It comes time to board the sub, and he tells her ladies first. She gets in, and he looks at the Island one more time before stepping into the sub.
Richard dives underwater. Jack shakes hands with Sayid and says if he doesn't see him on the other side he doesn't blame him. Eloise tells Jack to take a deep breath and follow Richard under. Jack dives as well and swims through a cave. He comes to an ancient structure on the other side, and asks Richard where they are. Richard tells him they're in the tunnels. Jack asks how they're going to get the bomb out, and Richard says the same way they got in -- but not through the pool. Eloise and Sayid join them. Sayid says that if this works, it will save them all. But if it doesn't, at least it will put all of them out of their misery. Eloise says to get started.
Locke walks back to camp. Richard says they can go first thing in the morning. Locke says he thought they could leave now, he's eager. Richard says that they can do it whenever he wants, but maybe they should go to his tent. Locke starts to address everyone, and Richard suggests they go to the Temple. Locke says he wants to talk to everyone there. He introduces himself and says that he's been told they've been accepting orders from a man named Jacob, but no one has actually seen him. He says there must be a good reason his whereabouts are secret, but he doesn't know what they are. Locke says if there's a man telling them what to do, he wants to know who he is. Sun asks if Jacob can tell them how to bring Jin and everyone else back here, and Locke says yes. Locke says that Richard has agreed to show them where they need to go, so he's going to go see Jacob now, and he wants everyone to come with him. Richard covertly tells Ben that he's starting to think John Locke is going to be trouble. Ben asks, why do you think I tried to kill him?
-------------
The sub worker says they're shoving off in 2 minutes and he'd appreciate no trouble. Juliet asks Sawyer what they're going to do when they get to Ann Arbor. Sawyer says they're not going there, they've got no authority over them in the real world. So once they dock, they're free. Juliet says she doesn't even know what the real world means anymore. Sawyer tells her that whatever happens, he's got her back. She says she loves him, and he says he loves her back. Phil comes in with Kate and they handcuff her. She and Sawyer exchange hellos. In the engine room, they prepare to dive. The three wait nervously.
Sayid observes that the woman helping them could be doing so to wipe out DHARMA. Jack says he knows, but in 30 years she's the one to tell them how to get back to the Island. Sayid asks, that makes him trust her? They walk ahead, and Richard and Eloise light some torches in the ruins. Eloise uncovers the bomb, and Eloise asks, now what?
Locke walks his people across the beach. He tells Ben it's a beautiful day. Ben says that Richard has some concerns about the pilgrimage to Jacob. He says it makes Richard uncomfortable and he has reservations if Locke knows what he's doing. Ben says that he's following him now, so if he needs Jacob to reunite him with his people... Locke interrupts, saying he's not trying to reunite with his people. Ben asks about what he told Sun. Locke says he knows what he said, but he's not going to Jacob for that reason. Ben asks why he is going to Jacob. Locke says, so he can kill him.
Cut to LOST
The Big Questions:
- How did Richard watch the Losties die?
- What is the relationship between Charles and Eloise?
- How are Jack and the others going to get the bomb out?
- What is the problem with Locke's request to see Jacob?
- Why does Locke want to kill Jacob?
Lost in the Vines Trivia Question:
What fake birth year did Hurley give Dr. Chang?
This Week in Original Articles:
Remember that contributing articles and answering the trivia question first are the two ways to be entered into this year's contest drawing, so keep them coming!
- The Island Where People Live Longer (Debra Murphy)
- Lost: Why is Jack Such a Jerk? (Scott Butki)
Next, on Lost:
The Incident - Jack's decision to put a plan in action in order to set things right on the island is met with some strong resistance by those close to him, and Locke assigns Ben a difficult task.
79 Votes- Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
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4.4
{"commentId":6924815,"authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
I really enjoyed this episode. It's the classic type of setup we get before a big season finale. You can see all the chess pieces being moved into place in preparation for the big event. And seeing as this is the last season finale before the last season, it seems like this is not only the breaking dawn for this season's cliffhanger, but for the entire resolution of the show. Exciting times.
Cheers! I loved Locke's confidence now, particularly his line to Ben. The delivery there was perfect. Sayid's return was also appropriately badass. My wife observed that he must just hang out in the bushes until an opportunity comes up to murder someone. As for Jeers, I really could've used without the tacked on love triangle bit in the sub. Sawyer and Juliet share a moment, followed immediately by Kate entering. It doesn't get more transparent, and the preview for next week's episode looks like they'll be exploring it. Crap.
So! Big questions.
How did Richard watch the Losties die?
I assume something goes wrong with this plan of Daniel's. The question for me is, if it's the nuke that killed everyone, why is Richard alright? Not to mention all the other natives.
What is the relationship between Charles and Eloise?
This question doesn't seem terribly important, but just sort of a curiosity. They certainly don't seem too lovey-dovey with each other, and Richard implied there was something more going on there. Maybe in classic Lost love polygon fashion, she's really in love with Richard but Richard has a thing for Danielle, who's in love with Charles, who has a huge thing for Vincent.
How are Jack and the others going to get the bomb out?
Ropes and pulleys.
What is the problem with Locke's request to see Jacob?
I think this and the next question are the big take-aways from this episode. When Richard and Ben were hesitant, it seemed as if maybe Jacob doesn't exist at all. Maybe what we've seen of him so far is all smoke and mirrors. But, thanks to the next question, that doesn't seem to be the case. Locke doesn't actually believe Jacob doesn't exist, he just doesn't believe Ben has talked to him.
Why does Locke want to kill Jacob?
Locke is communicating with the Island on a much deeper level than we've seen before, from him or anyone. I feel like whatever his plan is for killing Jacob, whatever the motivations, it's in the best interest of the Island. Maybe Jacob isn't acting in the Island's best interest, maybe he hasn't been for a while. I don't think Locke would do so without a purpose.
Then again, Locke was pretty duplicitous in this episode, outright lying to Sun about his motivations. So he's increasingly hard to read now, we don't know if his "killing" Jacob is a literal statement or what. I also wonder what this will mean for Jacob's "messenger" Christian, or Claire who seems to just like hanging out in his cabin.
{"commentId":6924815,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
- 9 votes
#1 - Wed May 6, 2009 10:48 PM EDT{"commentId":6933567,"authorDomain":"wiley1josh"}
When John was talking with Richard about going to see Jacob, John asked Richard if everyone was there. Richard said there was another group at the Temple. What if Richard Lied to Sun about how he saw Jack & company die? What if Jack & company are the group at the Temple & they have been living on the Island for the past 30 years?
{"commentId":6933567,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"wiley1josh"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":6933772,"authorDomain":"myra-traynor"}
It occurred to me that possibly the reason Locke is taking everyone with him to Jacob is that he wants to show them that Jacob doesn't exist, thereby effectively "killing" Jacob's influence over them. I always kind of thought of Jacob as being the personification of the island, and the island used that persona because the people wouldn't accept its communication any other way. But if Locke, as you suggest, is in closer communication with the island than anyone else and is doing the island's bidding, that shoots down my original theory. So forget I ever said anything.
{"commentId":6933772,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"myra-traynor"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":6934193,"authorDomain":"jilie-t"}
What fake birth year did Hurley give Dr. Chang? 1931
{"commentId":6934193,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"jilie-t"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":6934646,"authorDomain":"bduboftexas"}
Birth year - 1931 which made him in his 40's?
{"commentId":6934646,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"bduboftexas"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":6935351,"authorDomain":"debcarlon"}
Before reading on any further, I want to address Steve's answer to his last two questions regarding Jacob. I think that Locke knows there is no Jacob and that Ben and Richard have been using the Jacob thing as a way to control/manipulate/etc. the Others. Now that John Locke is back, confident and can communicate with the Island on a much deeper level, he feels the need to remove Jacob from the equation all together. By having the Other's go with him to "see" Jacob after declaring that they've all been following his orders for a long time but have never actually seen (or heard) him, they will then realize that Jacob doesn't really exist, thereby "killing" Jacob and putting an end to all things Jacob. This then gives John the control HE need's to carry out the "Island's" orders and wishes....am I alone in this theory?
{"commentId":6935351,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"debcarlon"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":6936594,"authorDomain":"brianford"}
I don't think the answer is that there "is no Jacob".
We've been shown too many things that pretty much dictate that there *is* a Jacob.
I think the answer is that Jacob wants Locke to kill him, or Locke thinks he does, and "kill" him is, in some way, not really the same thing as, say, killing Sawyer, or Ben, or anyone else who is alive in the traditional sense.
I also think that Locke does truly believe he's going to help Sun find everyone Jin, and reunite everyone, I just don't think it was his primary purpose for seeking out Jacob, as he claims.
With that said, if it turns out it's true that he doesn't believe Jacob exists (which I still say is odd, given what he's seen) maybe "kill him" simply means he's going to prove to everyone that he doesn't exist in the first place?
At any rate, as I don't have time for a whole comment:
Brian's Cheers
Hurley and Dr. Chang's conversation about whether Hurley and Miles are from the future. Classic.
{"commentId":6936594,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"brianford"}
- 10 votes
{"commentId":6948124,"authorDomain":"ctina1973"}
Brian's Cheers
Hurley and Dr. Chang's conversation about whether Hurley and Miles are from the future. Classic.
Poor Hurley.. It was like Chang was having a battle of wits with an unarmed person. Hurley is just not quick enough to try to lie.
And I agree that there is a Jacob. Locke heard him in the cabin. Didn't he also sort of see him? Killing him might also just be about killing the myth of him by showing them where he is and seeing him.
{"commentId":6948124,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"ctina1973"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":6924834,"authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
I'm thinking about the answers to your questions but am still perplexed about the ending and Locke's announcement that he plans to kill Jacob...am I the only one for whom that was a real "shock" in terms of personal theories about what was going to happen??
{"commentId":6924834,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
- 1 vote
#2 - Wed May 6, 2009 10:49 PM EDT{"commentId":6925972,"authorDomain":"molish12"}
Jacob asked Locke to help him (season 2/3?), so maybe killing him releases his soul and frees him from the cabin, which is surrounded by some powder which seems to be keeping him in the cabin. Maybe Richard somehow stays young at Jacob's expense.
{"commentId":6925972,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"molish12"}
- 14 votes
{"commentId":6926026,"authorDomain":"chiclet024"}
I hear you, Steve. I was stunned at that moment. It really poo-poo-ed what I have been thinking.
{"commentId":6926026,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"chiclet024"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6926114,"authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
'Killing him" was NOT the kind of help I had been theorizing about and expecting...I thought Locke would 'release' Jacob and the 2 would be allies in 'setting things right' on the island...then again, it's TV and Lost so I guess that can still happen!?
{"commentId":6926114,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6929560,"authorDomain":"krafty11181"}
Remember when Locke when to see Jacob and he said "help me." What if Locke's plan of killing Jacob backfires and it's really Locke in the cabin saying to his future-self to help him.
{"commentId":6929560,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"krafty11181"}
- 15 votes
{"commentId":6930162,"authorDomain":"t-bourlon"}
I remembered in the "previously on Lost" segment where Ben told Sun that "you don't come back from Dead." MAYBE this isn't really Locke! Maybe he's Smokey posing as Locke (or do you think that Christian also came back from Dead?) in order to get rid of Jacob. We know Smokey can become solid enough to throw Ben around, and that Smokey can definitely impersonate people. Locke left Ben to allegedly look for a vine the whole time Ben was down under the Temple, which would give Smokey plenty of time to switch from Locke to Alex and back again. Plus, he seems to know an awful lot more about the Island all of a sudden.
So who's Jacob? I'm beginning to think that Richard is Jacob, or that Richard is the human intersessor (of sorts) for Jacob, who is more of a spirit. If that's true, then how do you kill a spirit? Maybe by exposing it to the people that follow it? Maybe that's why Locke wanted everyone to come with him? Just my thoughts, but maybe this time we'll finally find out who Jacob REALLY is.
{"commentId":6930162,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"t-bourlon"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":6930356,"authorDomain":"matt-grant21"}
Exactly Lost Girl....I think Jacob is going to turn out to be John Locke.
{"commentId":6930356,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"matt-grant21"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":6931054,"authorDomain":"ranturn"}
Yes, Locke wanting to kill Jacob was definitely a shock. I read in my local paper that the season finale is called "The Fork in the Outlet." Guess we're in for alot of "shocks" next week! Can't wait!
{"commentId":6931054,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"ranturn"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":6931275,"authorDomain":"speierc"}
I'm there with you Steve! I didn't see that coming.
{"commentId":6931275,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"speierc"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6936550,"authorDomain":"janejan28"}
Maybe Jacob is an alien from the race who built the statue.
{"commentId":6936550,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"janejan28"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6939944,"authorDomain":"lolanj"}
Maureen, I like your idea that there may be a chance that keeping Jacob in the cabin somehow makes Richard stay young. It is very "Picture of Dorian Gray" and would make an interesting twist if Richard was somehow taking his power at the expense of Jacob. It would also answer why it is such a big deal that Locke talks to Jacob.
I am dying to know what the deal is with Richard; we have seen him always stay the same age at so many stages in different characters' lives, especially when he came to Locke during his childhood. Unfortunately they will probably end the season with more cliffhangers and even more questions than it answers.
{"commentId":6939944,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"lolanj"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6945509,"authorDomain":"jcjcjp"}
BlackRock Steve asked a good question. It is a shock if he literally means he's going to kill him. I thought Jacob was the ultimate leader on the island. I liked all the theories everyone gave. I would read one and say that could be it, then I read the next one and I think maybe that's it. My head is spinning trying to figure out which one I like best.
{"commentId":6945509,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"jcjcjp"}
{"commentId":6962054,"authorDomain":"olivia904"}
I have a feeling that Locke is not meaning to literally kill Jacob. He may mean that in order to demonstrate that he is the new leader, he will expose Jacob for who he really is. The others are said to do the bidding of Jacob. But Jacob seems to be trapped in that shack. Richard takes young Ben to be saved - and he goes to the temple where smokey lives. Adult Ben gets judgement not from Jacob but from smokey. So does Albert and/or Ben answer to smokey, but that would scare the others and make them not follow, so they pretend that they get their orders from Jacob? Richard & Ben dont want Locke to pull back the curtain on Jacob because it will make them lose control of the group.
And Richard is too clueless this week. If he is not all-knowing any more, then what is he? A spy? for who?
{"commentId":6962054,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"olivia904"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6966310,"authorDomain":"j-clarahan"}
scrambledeggs,
I love your thinking outside the box. It always makes so much sense to me :)
{"commentId":6966310,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"j-clarahan"}
{"commentId":6974868,"authorDomain":"conwaymsr"}
~ scrambledeggs ~ I quote your previous post (just above):
Richard takes young Ben to be saved - and he goes to the temple where smokey lives. Adult Ben gets judgement not from Jacob but from smokey. So does Albert and/or Ben answer to smokey, but that would scare the others and make them not follow, so they pretend that they get their orders from Jacob? Richard & Ben dont want Locke to pull back the curtain on Jacob because it will make them lose control of the group.
So, I'm confused... you say "Richard takes young Ben to be saved" ... and later "Richard and Ben dont want Locke to pull back the curtain... and in between those statements you say: "So does Albert and/or Ben answer to smokey..."
I am wondering.... Who Is "Albert"?
-=M=-
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{"commentId":6974868,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"conwaymsr"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6975291,"authorDomain":"olivia904"}
Oops - sorry Merlin. Typing faster than my brain can keep up. I meant that Richard took little Ben to the temple where smokey lives to be saved, Ben sought judgement from smokey, and smokey has also given second chances to characters as well as orders to Ben...so it seems to me that Richard and Ben seem to defer to smokey. Whereas Jacob is captive in a shack in the jungle, calls out help me, and uses the apparitions of a deceased guy to communicate. We see an eye peeking out from a window in Jacob's cabin, which doesn't make him seem too horrifying, and very few people have actually seen an indication of Jacob's presence, as opposed to lots of people who have seen smokey. So, I'm thinking that Jacob is either a dangerous person who was locked in there for good reasons, or a less than magical person who's illusions are more impressive than his abilities. Either way, if Richard and Ben have been keeping it a secret that Jacob maybe is not the "great" and "magnificent" man we've been hearing about, they would sure want to keep that a secret.
{"commentId":6975291,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"olivia904"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6978493,"authorDomain":"conwaymsr"}
~ scrambledeggs ~ So.... are you saying that you meant "Alpert" when you typed "Albert"? ... I reprinted the portions of your comment where you said "Richard this..." and " Richard that..." and then mention "Albert".... that was what confused me... since you had been calling him "Richard", I thought "Albert" was a different person entirely... I undrestnad typo's enritely... I type them msylef all the time!
Speaking of "Typos"... for a little fun... Let's see if you can read this ->....... I'm sure you can....very interesting...........
fi yuo cna raed tihs, yuo hvae a sgtrane mnid too. Cna yuo raed tihs? Olny 55% 0f plepoe can.
i cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! if you can raed tihs forwrad it. If not, sned it bcak.
Mreiln
-=M=-
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{"commentId":6978493,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"conwaymsr"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6924857,"authorDomain":"hpaigejr"}
Good Evening my fellow Lost fans. Even though tonight's episode is one of those that raises more questions then gives us answers I must say I enjoyed it. One question that may have finally been answered is what happens to the pregnant women. I think the revelation that a hydrogen bomb is actually buried under DHARMAVILLE may be the answer. At first I was thrown off because if the bomb was buried there in the 50's then why were Ethan, and I assume Miles, able to be born on the Island. Hear me out on this one. What if the bomb was buried in the fifties and it is slowly leaking radiation. Not only is it buried, it's also buried in what looks to be one of the mystical temples of the Island. The hostiles probably avoided the area it was buried in because they figured it was dangerous. In the 70's, along comes the DI and they build their town right on top of it. The slow leaking radiation mixed with the mystical properties of the tunnels may slowly effect the people living over it. When Ethan and Miles were born in 77 their Mom's had only been on the Island a short time. Maybe that exposure was enough to make Ethan and Miles different, Miles being able to hear the deads thoughts, and Ethan's apparent strength. After the evacuation I don't think there were many familes left on the island. I highley doubt there was anyone getting pregnant right up until the time of the purge. After the purge, Ben moves the hostiles right into DHARMAVILLE. Say after 4 or 5 years living there the hostiles decide it's a good time to start raising familes. After that much time living over the bomb the women have enough radiation in their system it makes a pregnancy fatal. That is why Claire had no problem delivering Aaron. They weren't on the Island long enough for the radiation to effect them. I know this is a little long winded and probably not even close to right but it popped into my head as I was watching.
Another question this episode brought to mind is, who is really in charge of the hostiles, Charles or Eloise. To me, it seemed like Charles was subordinate to Eloise. The way she told him that she was taking Jack and Kate to the bomb and he didn't question her. It seemed like she had more power then him.
This weekend I'm going to have to go back and rewatch the episodes were the losties were time jumping. Now we know that they were not just jumping around in the past. When Locke was shot in the leg and Richard removed the bullet he was obviously in 2007-08 which would be the future for the losties. That means at some point Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Jin, and Daniel were in the future too. I would like to watch those scenes again and find out where they were and what they were seeing on the island at that time.
I can't wait for next weeks episode to see what is up with Locke. His closing remark about wanting to kill Jacob made my jaw drop. I'm beginning to wonder if there are two opposing supernatural forces at work on the Island. It looks to me that the one that brought John back from the dead is not the same as the one that Jacob speaks for. More to come.
Herb
{"commentId":6924857,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"hpaigejr"}
- 11 votes
#3 - Wed May 6, 2009 10:51 PM EDT{"commentId":6926093,"authorDomain":"blackwidow1"}
Herb,
Please keep us posted on what you find out about regarding the time jumping when Richard helped Locke get the bullet out of his leg. If that is the case (that Locke was in the "future" when this happened), then I believe that this would be the only time that we know of that the Losties jumped to the future. (Please anyone correct me if i'm wrong)
I've long thought that in the world of Lost, time travel could only go backward. That the "future" cannot be visited unless it has already been someone's present - if that makes any sense. So, if the Losties did jump ahead, this may put a different spin on the direction the show can go.
Now, up until tonight, I thought that island time has been running at a slower pace than real-world time. Example, when Locke turned the frozen donkey wheel and met with Charles Widmore, Widmore asked him how long it had been since their meeting in 1954. Locke said three days, Widmore was amazed. But with Richard flat out asking John where he had been the past three years, I realized that island time (in 2007) seems to be consistant with off-island time. However, when the Ajira plane crashed on the island, there was a time shift for the modern-day characters (Locke, Ben, Sun, etc.) - if you remember the plane was flying in the dark but after the flash, it was daytime.
But now, I am completely confused (shocking I know).
{"commentId":6926093,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"blackwidow1"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":6926317,"authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
Herb & blackwidow...you're not confused...either we all are...or the writers are...I, too, thought Locke time-traveled BACK in time, because don't forget he was shot by Ethanwith a rifle, and Ethan was killed by Charlie in 2004!!! So, if we are to believe that Ajira crash landed in 2007 by many references in recent episodes and Richard's comment tonight to Locke about where he's been for 3 years...the what was up with the meeting with the wounded Locke tonight??? There have been numerous major cited "continuity errors" by the writers over the last 5 seasons...have we just seen another?
{"commentId":6926317,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6926834,"authorDomain":"rev1fan"}
I was confused at first too, but if I remember right there was a flash between the time that Ethan shot Locke and when Richard pulled the bullet out. Also when Sawyer, Juliet, Miles and Daniel were flashing, they found the boats with the Aijira water bottles, that would have to be the future.
{"commentId":6926834,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"rev1fan"}
- 11 votes
{"commentId":6926844,"authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
Thanks to gotmitch87 tip and other posts below...Mystery Solved.
In the 'Becasue You Left' season premiere...Locke flashed back in time to "between 2001-2002' when the beachcraft plane crashed, and was shot in the leg by Ethan, but flashed again and did TIME TRAVEL TO THE FUTURE to 2008 just before Ethan was going to shoot him again!!!
See the Lostpedia episode recap: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Because_You_Left
{"commentId":6926844,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":6929694,"authorDomain":"narlander"}
Herb you stated:
'What if the bomb was buried in the fifties and it is slowly leaking radiation. Not only is it buried, it's also buried in what looks to be one of the mystical temples of the Island. The hostiles probably avoided the area it was buried in because they figured it was dangerous. In the 70's, along comes the DI and they build their town right on top of it. The slow leaking radiation mixed with the mystical properties of the tunnels may slowly effect the people living over it. When Ethan and Miles were born in 77 their Mom's had only been on the Island a short time. Maybe that exposure was enough to make Ethan and Miles different, Miles being able to hear the deads thoughts, and Ethan's apparent strength. "
Hydrogen Bombs do not emit radiation, they would emit hyrdogen. The h bomb is a fusion reaction converting Hydrogen to helium and the extra energy from doing this causes the boom. An atomic bomb that you are thinking of is a fission reaction that splits a uranium atom. The uranium is radioactive. Leaking hydrogen is just a fire hazard in a confined space
{"commentId":6929694,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"narlander"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":6930089,"authorDomain":"bcoyne1975"}
Also for babies being born, it doesn't seem like Daniel has been yet. Eloise would be around 40 in 1977, if she was in her teens in 1954. So it would have to be soon, if the bomb is the cause of the women not being able to give birth.
{"commentId":6930089,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"bcoyne1975"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":6930192,"authorDomain":"gnr"}
Herb & AB,
AB, good point, it was in the episode The LIttle Prince when Sawyer, Juliet, Miles and Daniel walk back to the beach after Locke disappeared down the well. They find their beach camp raided and 2 outriggers on the beach with ajira water bottles. That was so confusing when it happened, but it makes such prefect sense now! The writing is amazing in this show! Anyways, remember also, that they take one of the outriggers and start to paddle away only to be shot at! Who was shooting?! Since at this point in time, they had actually flashed to the future, I think the new group (Caesar, Illana, "do you know what lies in the shadow of the statue?' group was shooting at them)!!!!
I think that is where the show is going...not so much about the bomb and the seventies...they will tie that all up nicely. It's about the WAR that we have been hearing about for a along time. IN the season finale preview we get to see Lapidus ask "What's in the box?" I love that line from the movie Seven...then we see them (Illana's group) opening the box!!! This new group either associated with Whidmore or not, I don't know, is up to no good. I think they have guns and supplies and their intentions for the island and why they ask that creepy question "do you know what lies in the shadow of the statue?' is going to become hugely important for the final season.
Bottom line is that this show is amazing and I can already feel the separation anxiety, knowing that next season is our last. Thanks and have fun!!!
{"commentId":6930192,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"gnr"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":6930898,"authorDomain":"jdavidreynolds"}
Darma Scientist: Fusion bombs use fission bombs as detonators, so a hydrogen bomb does contain a lot of fissionable material.
{"commentId":6930898,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"jdavidreynolds"}
{"commentId":6932390,"authorDomain":"bcoyne1975"}
I agree that Locke and Richard's encounter happened in 2007 via Locke's flashes, and that should be when Sawyer's group found the canoes and paddled away. But thinking back on it, if they are all jumping in time together, the RA/JL scene was much shorter than the Sawyer's group finding the canoe on the beach, then paddling away- that was in the daytime. When they were being shot at, it was rainy and dark. So that would seem like they were in that time period longer than when JL was talking with RA. So maybe they flashed twice to 2007.
{"commentId":6932390,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"bcoyne1975"}
{"commentId":6933863,"authorDomain":"mark-reeves"}
Dallbec
I believe Ellie is preggers in last nights episode. you hear Charles say "in your condition" to her when she is talking about going to the bomb with the others.
{"commentId":6933863,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"mark-reeves"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6936315,"authorDomain":"borisvonborov"}
I noted that as well, but did you see Charles patting her baby bump?
{"commentId":6936315,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"borisvonborov"}
{"commentId":6937063,"authorDomain":"buck-wilson53"}
The flash when Richard helps Locke with his bullet wound takes place at the same time Sawyer and company are showing Daniel the pit that was the Swan station. This is just before Daniel tells Desmond at the Swan to find his mother.
When the group finds the Ajira boats, Locke is with them.
{"commentId":6937063,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"buck-wilson53"}
{"commentId":6940174,"authorDomain":"Paige1086693"}
DallBec: Also for babies being born, it doesn't seem like Daniel has been yet.
I believe that Eloise is supposed to be pregnant in last night's episode. When she is talking to Charles before she leaves with Kate and Jack, Charles was touching her stomach-- not something you would normally see unless someone's pregnant.
{"commentId":6940174,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"Paige1086693"}
{"commentId":6940991,"authorDomain":"lolanj"}
I am confused; can someone answer a question for me?
Was there a part in a recent episode where we learned that Elsie and Charles Wilmore were both Daniel’s parents or did I just think that up when we saw them both on the island at the same time?? Or was that a flashback to the future maybe when Daniel was "sick"? I could have sworn this is true but I do not see any comments about this and their insinuated relationship.
{"commentId":6940991,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"lolanj"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6941617,"authorDomain":"mark-reeves"}
Lola
In last weeks episode Eloise said that Charles was Daniel's father.
{"commentId":6941617,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"mark-reeves"}
{"commentId":6945913,"authorDomain":"jcjcjp"}
Herbcules, BlackWidow, BlackRock,
If they are jumping forward in time, then how many cycles have they been doing this? Or, can you jump to a future that hasn't been lived yet, but it will happen that way based on your current actions? If they have they lived this before, was that why it was so important for them to go back to the island? If they didn't go back, would something truly horrible happen? Or, do they have to keep doing it to make sure what happened, happens? Is it a "Groundhog Day" type of thing where they have to keep doing this until they are able to find the variable that changes everything? Just when you think you have a slight clue about this time travel thing, they confuse you even more.
{"commentId":6945913,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"jcjcjp"}
{"commentId":6950998,"authorDomain":"rmiller-1"}
All good points and one I hadn't even thought of---da bomb! It's a good theory, but H-bombs in those days were composed of regular old atomic bombs (as the trigger) surrounded by styrofoam and lithium deuteride which is not radioactive. Now, there could be some tritium, but that's not particularly toxic---a typical self-glowing EXIT sign contains a LOT of trit (no, there were no tritium EXIT signs in the WTC on 911. I actually asked a guy who was in charge of that operation.) Back to the nuke: The primary source of radiation would have been the standard nuke trigger which likely was composed of a nominal 15 kt device consisting of an americium-beryllium core (neutron source) a grapefruit-sized ball of plutonium (alpha emitter generally) and then a shell of high explosive. So, any radiation from the plute is probably shielded by the U-238 skin covering the entire bomb. That doesn't mean a nuke detonation isn't an extremely weird event. I once interviewed a physicist who was in the Control Room at the Nevada Test Site and who claimed there was a little "blip" on the oscilloscope immediately prior to the detonation. Tachyons?
{"commentId":6950998,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"rmiller-1"}
{"commentId":6924910,"authorDomain":"Anjillina"}
I thought this was an interesting episode. Not great, but helped move the plot along to get set up for end of the season.
Cheers:
Jack - for picking a path and sticking with it for a change. Showing determination and drive. Choosing to do something instead of just waiting for fate.
Sayid is back and helping Jack. Hurrah!
Juliet and Sawyer. If only they could have left - that would have been great.
Hurley trying to pass as a 46 year old Korean War veteran
Myles coming clean to Chang and understanding how and why he was sent away
Locke's timing having Richard go save other Locke with shot leg
Jeers:
Kate. Oh...my...god. I don't even care if she's right - I just want her to shut up and go away. And now I just hope she's wrong because I so despise her. "Since when did shooting kids and detonating hydrogen bombs become ok?!" Harpy. HATE her. Also, of COURSE you have to end up on the sub and screw up the happy ending for Sawyer and Juliet. Kate = bad penny.
Myles resolved his Daddy issues. Does that mean he has to die? I hope not.
{"commentId":6924910,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"Anjillina"}
- 15 votes
#4 - Wed May 6, 2009 10:54 PM EDT{"commentId":6924983,"authorDomain":"stevencwatts"}
{"commentId":6925199,"authorDomain":"dtateya"}
I also think you're on target in that killing Jacob will be a good thing. If "dead isn't dead" (like Locke), maybe Jacob has a chance for resurrection, as well. And along those lines, maybe Richard is the one behind Jacob needing help in the first place. Old as he is, there are many things he doesn't seem to know.
{"commentId":6925199,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"dtateya"}
{"commentId":6925265,"authorDomain":"Sherilw"}
Completely agree with you about Kate, Anjilina. She gets on my nerves more and more every week. And who, exactly, appointed the fugitive on the run as the moral authority of the island? She did, after all, shoot and kill her step-daddy...since when did that become okay?
I suspect that Kate's real reason for wanting to stop Jack is so she doesn't have to go to prison if things are changed and 815 actually lands in L.A. Which, by the way, would completely piss me off if the writers end the series that way.
Always love Hurley...he's fantastic! And it was good to see some sort of emotion from Eloise that wasn't cold-hearted @!$%#iness. Anyway...can't wait for the season finale! Looks awesome!
{"commentId":6925265,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"Sherilw"}
{"commentId":6925638,"authorDomain":"jcjcjp"}
Anjiilina,
I like your theory about the reason Locke is going to kill Jacob. I forgot about him being in the cabin and asking Locke to help him.
{"commentId":6925638,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"jcjcjp"}
{"commentId":6926058,"authorDomain":"music-lover"}
Spot on about Kate. She's gotten as annoying for me as Radzinsky (whom, for some reason always makes me think of Paul Giamatti. I know first it was Roger Linus as a Carradine, but I digress... :))
I actually watched that scene w/ the three of them and thought 'They'd better not play 'Torn Between Two Lovers'
{"commentId":6926058,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"music-lover"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6926064,"authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
Angellina…
Why does Locke want to kill Jacob - because Jacob is some poor soul...
I think you are so right. Ever since last season’s Cabin Fever, when Jacob said to Locke “Please Help me!” I have been convinced that Jacob is an imprisoned spirit from a past island ‘resident’ with DI connections…like Magnus Hanso or even Horace!
{"commentId":6926064,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
{"commentId":6927851,"authorDomain":"rcvann30"}
But where has Jacob been? It's been Jack's dead dad and alive sister who have been residing in the cabin.
{"commentId":6927851,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"rcvann30"}
{"commentId":6929066,"authorDomain":"seyahaj"}
Maybe Jacobs spirit is the only thing that can manifest & obviously not everyone can hear him. Claire & her dad have taken physical form so others can know what Jacob wants. Jacob sent Claire to Kate telling her not to bring Aaron back. Jacob sent Christian to John to help him turn the wheel. Jacob wants Locke to kill him.
{"commentId":6929066,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"seyahaj"}
{"commentId":6929183,"authorDomain":"Anjillina"}
Thanks guys. It just didn't make sense that Locke would be killing Jacob as like an evil or mean thing. And he's the one who heard him say "help me." So I just think, knowing Locke, that he would actually try to help the poor guy. Also, with his recent deadness and all, I think he received insight into what had to be done. As a side note, I've always thought of Richard as either neutral or not a bad guy. Until last night. As soon as Locke started acting like a REAL leader, Richard got his knickers in a knot. I found that very creepy and now it would totally make sense to me if he was in on a plot to enslave people (Jacob and the Others).
{"commentId":6929183,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"Anjillina"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6929796,"authorDomain":"rcvann30"}
Im not so sure Jack's dad has taken physical form. He was down in the well after Lock had fallen and the well was sealed due to a time shift. Also because of Lock's broken leg, Lock asked him for assistance and he told Lock that he was unable to, which implies spirit form. I forget who went into the cabin and found Jacks dad and Jacks sister but when asked where is Jacob the answer was something like, I speak for him at the moment. So either the powder around the cabin doesn't trap Jacob in the cabin or Jack's dad is just another version of Jacob? but um since Jack's dad has been porting round the island I would guess the powder isn't trapping him so um, yeah where was I?
{"commentId":6929796,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"rcvann30"}
{"commentId":6930853,"authorDomain":"fortified-hooligan79"}
Hey all -
Weren't we told that Jacob is someone we already saw in season 1? If they were serious, I'm really interested to see who it is. I'm hoping it will be a "HOLY $%&*" moment that brings me out of my seat.
- How did Richard watch the Losties die?
My personal take is that Richard saw the original timeline that happened. They are doing what they can to change things. This would be in the same vein as my other Back to the Future comparison. Basically whatever event that is going to happen to change things has not happened yet for the Losties in the past...if that makes sense. Not sure how to word it.
- What is the relationship between Charles and Eloise?
I think this is a classic case of sex in the workplace. Everyone who has ever done that has had the same conversation..."if we do this we can't let it make things weird, we have to stay professional blah blah blah". It never works. Ever. Also it is pretty obvious she is pregnant with Daniel. Not sure if the radiation has anything to do with his intellect, but I found it interesting that as soon as Daniel was in proximity of his younger self he dies.
- How are Jack and the others going to get the bomb out?
Man this could be anything. I think it will be a more conventional method, pullies and such like you said.
- What is the problem with Locke's request to see Jacob?
Locke is a wildcard. Richard has no idea what he's going to do and its making him uncomfortable. Up until now I've always had a feeling that he felt in control, but he's squirming now, just like Ben. I like Locke like this, he is subtly messing with them and its great!
- Why does Locke want to kill Jacob?
Not really sure where this is headed. Some folks are theorizing that Jacob was asking for his help and that this would be what help he was asking for. Could be. Could also be that he was messing with Ben. I doubt it but nothing is ever that simple on this show. I don't think it will simply be him killing Jacob, that would be too easy and not very Lostesque.
Cheers -
Jack having a purpose again.
Locke effing with Ben and Richard all the time.
Sawyer and Juliet sticking together.
Loose ends getting tied up, such as a possible reason for failed pregnancies (radiation), Miles and Dr. Chang coming clean and Miles finding out why he was sent away with his mother, and finding out how Richard knew where to be for Locke and his gunshot wound.
Hurley stealing food and trying to sneak out of camp. Who would notice a really fat guy with really long BIG hair?
Jeers -
Missing the 1st 15 minutes of the show!!!!
Radzinsky taking over and Horace wimping out and just letting it happen.
Phil hitting Juliet.
Kate complicating things with Sawyer/Juliet.
No update, from what I saw or read, about the other faction with the large metal box and machine guns. I'm sure they will appear next week but that was a big development to just let go unmentioned.
{"commentId":6930853,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"fortified-hooligan79"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6930894,"authorDomain":"keith-corrigan"}
Because this is the first time I see Smokey mentioned......Where is he anyway? We have yet to see him in the seventies. Could it be that whatever Jack and Ellie wind up doing is what releases Smokey from his centuries of imprisonment. Please someone correct me if we have seen Smokey, but I don't think we have. At least in the seventies timeline.
{"commentId":6930894,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"keith-corrigan"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":6933103,"authorDomain":"johnboy813"}
perhaps whatever Jack and his team do with the H-Bomb causes Smokey to released from his tomb.
{"commentId":6933103,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"johnboy813"}
{"commentId":6935604,"authorDomain":"mdbennink"}
Keith, freaking awesome theory about Smokey! I never considered it! I bet you're on to something!
{"commentId":6935604,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"mdbennink"}
{"commentId":6935995,"authorDomain":"rmoran69"}
My personal take is that Richard saw the original timeline that happened. They are doing what they can to change things. This would be in the same vein as my other Back to the Future comparison. Basically whatever event that is going to happen to change things has not happened yet for the Losties in the past...if that makes sense. Not sure how to word it.
So does that mean that the memories of those in the future change based upon the acts of those in the past? I mean that would be what I would normally think, but this is Lost so that kind of thinking is basically just suggestion to the writers...
It would make for some intersting future dialog if you were discussing a past event and it changes in mid sentence....
{"commentId":6935995,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"rmoran69"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6940391,"authorDomain":"slrincon"}
Anjillina, I agree with you- Kate is really getting on my nerves. I cant stand to see how she all of the sudden hasmorals. We haven't forgotten her past. I also wish she would stop pulling on Jacks emotions. She is always flopping between Jack and Sawyer.
{"commentId":6940391,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"slrincon"}
{"commentId":6946815,"authorDomain":"bigbadKIM"}
the smokey theory seemed really good until i remembered they already have the fence thing up...Richard told Dharma that the fence might keep other things out (Smokey) but not them...
{"commentId":6946815,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"bigbadKIM"}
{"commentId":6954816,"authorDomain":"bri-G"}
Any thoughts to Jacob being somehow tied to the trippy William Sanderson character, who lived out by where the cabin was going to be built?
{"commentId":6954816,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"bri-G"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6955379,"authorDomain":"imforthebirds"}
bri-G - Some posters have suggested that. Oldham was playing an old gramophone and sharp-eyed viewers spotted a gramophone in Jacob's cabin and he lives alone in the woods with no modern conveniences.
{"commentId":6955379,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"imforthebirds"}
{"commentId":6962209,"authorDomain":"g1adc"}
Insightful about the fence keeping Smokey out but not the Others. Now we know why. They can go through tunnels under the fences to get into Dharmaville.
{"commentId":6962209,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"g1adc"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6996301,"authorDomain":"keith-corrigan"}
Good call on the fence. I forgot about that....
{"commentId":6996301,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"keith-corrigan"}
{"commentId":6925062,"authorDomain":"jengarjus"}
Shock.....Locke wanting to kill Jacob.....
Eloise and Charles....when they were discussing things, I thought I saw Charles pat Eloise's stomach, if so, she is pregnant with Daniel.
This show is driving me crazy.....but a good crazy.....
{"commentId":6925062,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"jengarjus"}
- 1 vote
#5 - Wed May 6, 2009 11:04 PM EDT{"commentId":6927030,"authorDomain":"novembernicole"}
I thought the same thing about Eloise. When she was telling Charles that she was going to take Jack and Kate to the bomb, Charles responded "not in your condition" as they rubbed Eloise's belly. How weird - she just shot and killed her son while she is pregnant with him. Only on Lost!
{"commentId":6927030,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"novembernicole"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6930460,"authorDomain":"bcoyne1975"}
Whoa, totally missed that. I had thought Daniel hadn't been born yet (but would need to be soon, seeing as Eloise is about 40 in 1977), but didn't catch the belly rub or Charles' comment.
{"commentId":6930460,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"bcoyne1975"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6933257,"authorDomain":"johnboy813"}
She would be exactly 40 in 1977, since she told Jack that in 1954 when she was 17 she took a man to the H-Bomb and he told her to bury it and then vanished before her eyes. Now she just shot him and he told her he was her son. So she would have been 71 when she sent everyone back to the island.
{"commentId":6933257,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"johnboy813"}
{"commentId":6951112,"authorDomain":"rmiller-1"}
Things are moving so fast that the writers had to reduce events and meaning to obvious signal events (e.g. tummy patting.) I sometimes get the impression that the ideas are flying through the air so fast that the writers don't really consider the implications of their moves. But I have to hand it to them, they're keeping it relatively consistent. As for Kate. . .like all great novels, this island is about transformation. Locke has found his purpose, Jack his spine (yes, yes, I know), Charlie (my daughter is STILL waiting for him to return!!!!!!) his courage and compassion for others, Sayid his retreat from cynicism, Sawyer his sense of responsibility, Juliette her humanity and Kate her sense of personal ethics. Even Hurley has changed. . .the dude is writing a Star Wars sequel that actually works. Kudos to Evangelene Lilly for being able to get inside Kate's somewhat annoying and rigid personality---far as I'm concerned, when a character is able to crank off the audience, it simply underscores the talent of the actor playing that part. Interestingly, the times I've seen the various actors appear on the late nite shows, all seem to have been casted against type.
{"commentId":6951112,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"rmiller-1"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":6925117,"authorDomain":"blackwidow1"}
Happy Lostday everyone! I truly enjoyed tonights episode and cannot wait until the finale (although that will be a bittersweet evening)
How did Richard watch the Losties die?
Jughead. Or the after-effects of exploding a hydrogen bomb - radiation sickness.
- What is the relationship between Charles and Eloise?
A complicated one. Perhaps they were brought together by the island for the sole purpose of creating Daniel. One of them got emotionally attached, whereas the other was simply there by directive of the island or Jacob (whichever you prefer). IF this is the case, I believe that it was Widmore who got emotionally attached. As we’ve learned last week, Hawking seems willing to do anything, sacrifice anything for the sake of the island.
- How are Jack and the others going to get the bomb out?
Break through a wall that Widmore, Hawking and crew built to close off the tunnels when they first put the bomb there in 1954.
- What is the problem with Locke's request to see Jacob?
It has seemed to me that in the past people were summoned to see Jacob, usually via Richard. Locke is changing the rules.
- Why does Locke want to kill Jacob?
I think he wants to kill Jacob in an attempt to stop the madness of the island (child stealing, brainwashing, time “police“ etc.) Or perhaps he wishes to take over for Jacob and be the true leader/ruler of the island (didn’t Sawyer refer to him as Col. Kurtz a few seasons back?) A coup, anyone?
{"commentId":6925117,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"blackwidow1"}
#6 - Wed May 6, 2009 11:07 PM EDT{"commentId":6930084,"authorDomain":"narlander"}
Again, Black widow:
Hydrogen Bombs do not emit radiation, they would emit hyrdogen. The h bomb is a fusion reaction converting Hydrogen to helium and the extra energy from doing this causes the boom. An atomic bomb that you are thinking of is a fission reaction that splits a uranium atom. The uranium is radioactive. Leaking hydrogen is just a fire hazard in a confined space .
{"commentId":6930084,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"narlander"}
{"commentId":6930324,"authorDomain":"imforthebirds"}
Why then, in 1954, did Daniel notice radiation burns on one of the Others hands and, after inspecting the bomb, tell them they need to seal the leak with lead and bury the bomb in concrete? Wouldn't Daniel know what it emits???
{"commentId":6930324,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"imforthebirds"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6930858,"authorDomain":"narlander"}
Its pure hydrogen as the fuel. the writers probably confused the two. However, a magnetic field causes the same problems as radation sickness.
{"commentId":6930858,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"narlander"}
{"commentId":6931714,"authorDomain":"bcoyne1975"}
Would a regular person without training know how to set off a hydrogen bomb? I'm no doctor, but I'm assuming they don't cover that in med school. Maybe they come with a manual (but would Mr Arrogant Jack read it ;-) )
{"commentId":6931714,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"bcoyne1975"}
{"commentId":6932971,"authorDomain":"gouranga"}
Dharma Scientist my understanding is that the most common type of thermonuclear explosive (aka Hydrogen bomb),the Teller-Ulam, incorporates a fission and fusion explosion. The fission reaction is used to create the temperature and pressure necessary for the fusion reaction to occur. This fission stage is induced by radioactive elements (plutomium and/or uranium).
As long as that is true, a hyrdogen bomb should be as capable of emitting radiation as a pure fission device. Given the timeframe in which this device was being tested, it is likely that was the device type on the island being tested (US tested it in 1952).
What I don't get is, given the yield of these devices, they are going to wipe out the entire island. There is not going to be anything left alive at all if they detonate that thing.
{"commentId":6932971,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"gouranga"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":6935185,"authorDomain":"mark-reeves"}
Darma Scientist
Gouranga is absolutely right. H-bombs which were commonly tested by the US in 1954 contained both uranium and plutonium. They also had tritium which is a type of radioactive hydrogen. And I believe the actual "jughead" device which was canceled in 1954 used this same setup. So it is very likely the bomb would emit radiation if the casing was breached. even so, Blackwidow was talking about post detonation, which would definitely have fallout. I haven't read about bombs in 10 years, so if anyone out there can explain it better, feel free to jumpin.
{"commentId":6935185,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"mark-reeves"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6937070,"authorDomain":"rmoran69"}
Darma Scientist:
This is a much nastier bomb. Not only does it release much more energy, using a process called 'nuclear fusion', but it is triggered not by TNT, but by an atomic bomb!
The central core (B) is a mass made up of trillions of two kinds of atoms, which are both isotopes of hydrogen, called deuterium and tritium. (These are just hydrogen atoms with one or two extra neutrons in each nucleus). Small atomic bombs (A) scattered around the outside cause the deuterium and tritium to be squeezed into a very dense mass, which initiates a process called nuclear fusion, releasing great quantities of energy.
This process is difficult to achieve; it's been described as trying to squeeze an unopened can of Coke into a little ball without spilling any Coke!
But there's more! As the core explodes, it causes the bomb casing, (C), which is made from uranium, to undergo fission, creating even more energy. In other words, an atomic bomb sets off a fusion bomb, which also triggers another atomic bomb!
Here are the details of the fusion process:
The block of deuterium and tritium atoms are squeezed into a super-dense mass by the exploding atomic triggers. Nuclei of these two isotopes are squeezed together by the force of the explosion.
The force is so great that it causes the nuclei to combine. This process is called nuclear fusion.
A new nucleus is formed ... helium.
But this new nucleus requires less energy to keep it together, and there is one less neutron needed. This excess energy, and the neutron, escape as radiation.
The amount of escaping energy is huge; bombs of this type can release energy equivalent to the explosion of many millions of tons of TNT.
The escaping neutrons also cause the uranium in the bomb casing to undergo a fission chain reaction, the energy from which is added to the total output of the bomb. It also results in much radioactive material being expelled into the atmosphere, which can later descend as 'fallout', and kill living things. Bombs without the uranium casing just release a lot of energy and neutrons, killing in the immediate vicinity without leaving a lot of radioactive fallout. These 'cleaner' bombs are called neutron bombs.
The above information was taken from a website with plenty of information on bombs.
{"commentId":6937070,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"rmoran69"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6953850,"authorDomain":"olivia904"}
A notation from the blast door map says "alleged location of aborted #7 large number of underground springs heavy water table". Heavy water contains deutrerium, D20, instead of H20, which I believe is the byproduct of water cooling of nuclear power, or radiation, production. The Valenzetti equation was meant to predict human extinction due to nuclear war. Also noted on map: "the disease worsens with the treatment the remedy is worse than the disease".....referring to the effects of radiation?
{"commentId":6953850,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"olivia904"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":6925146,"authorDomain":"j-clarahan"}
Cheers:
Hurley trying to fake being old, then giving up after not knowing who the president is!
Jeers:
Kate--just not playing along, making everything more difficult for Everyone. She sucks anymore.
Question:
If RA doesn't really know what's going on, then why does he start to believe Locke is going to be a problem (and Ben says, "that's why I had to kill him")? Is it because Locke is going to be the "one" to stop the infinite loop and finally end RA's life? We saw at the beginning that Alpert has been on the island a very long time... thoughts?
{"commentId":6925146,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"j-clarahan"}
#7 - Wed May 6, 2009 11:09 PM EDT{"commentId":6926079,"authorDomain":"rebeccad"}
I was wondering as well about that little side conversation between Ben and Richard... as if they've been in cahoots even after Ben was "dethroned" as the leader... seemed suspicious to me.
btw... Ben said "that's why I tried to kill him".. not "had to".
{"commentId":6926079,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"rebeccad"}
{"commentId":6929776,"authorDomain":"jilie-t"}
I agree with you - I think they have been in cahoots all along.
{"commentId":6929776,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"jilie-t"}
{"commentId":6929947,"authorDomain":"swanny4813"}
And why does Kate get so upset when Jack says, "we can all pretend it all never happened" does she love Jack or Sawyer?! Why does she have to have her cake and eat it too. It drives me crazy. Jack clearly loves her and she refuses to give any clarity. Thoughts?
{"commentId":6929947,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"swanny4813"}
{"commentId":6930267,"authorDomain":"jilie-t"}
she doesnt want to go back and go to jail
{"commentId":6930267,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"jilie-t"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6930876,"authorDomain":"kmonarq7"}
I dont think they have been in cahoots. I think Richard has been pulling the strings all along. He always seemed to be...too in-control in the past scenes (recruiting Juliet, testing child Locke) to not be the one doing it now.
What about the possibility of Richard being Jacob?
{"commentId":6930876,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"kmonarq7"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6931250,"authorDomain":"keith-corrigan"}
Jilie, my thoughts exactly...
{"commentId":6931250,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"keith-corrigan"}
{"commentId":6931333,"authorDomain":"bcoyne1975"}
Swanny-1085463- I thought she was upset when Jack said it would never happen cause at one point they were together and engaged- now he wants to "erase" all that, and as she said, it wasn't all bad. Even though she was the one driving them apart (the "just cause we're on the plane together doesn't mean we're together"), it is pretty harsh for your ex to want to get rid of the memories of your life together and have you not meet. Not that I like her, or Jack. And hated having her get on the sub (to no where, it seems, as they are back next week!). Leave Sawyer alone!!
{"commentId":6931333,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"bcoyne1975"}
{"commentId":6932930,"authorDomain":"imforthebirds"}
I think Richard has been pulling the strings all along. He always seemed to be...too in-control in the past scenes (recruiting Juliet, testing child Locke) to not be the one doing it now.
KMonarQ7 - I don't think they are in cahoots either. Richard expressed contempt for the fertility research in "The Brig" when he told Locke that "Ben has been wasting our time with novelties like fertility problems. We're looking for someone to remind us that we're here for more important reasons." This was when Locke was supposed to kill his father but couldn't and Richard helped him "cheat" and deceive Ben and the Others by letting Sawyer do it and Locke take the credit. So it looks like he was just going along with Ben when he recruited Juliet, cooperating but with ulterior motives. And by the way, how did Juliet learn that Richard is really old?? Is it because she is very old??
I agree with other posters that Richard is looking confused and not infallible and all-knowing, kind of like Sawyer being the in-control leader until things happen too fast. Richard failed twice to "recruit" Locke, rejecting Locke after he chose the knife as part of his test when he was 5 and Locke at 16 rejecting Richard's offer through the science teacher to go to Mittelos science summer camp. Locke eventually made it to the island with his ever present knife (so he didn't really fail the test!) but it's not clear whether Richard was involved, and now they're dealing with the consequences.
{"commentId":6932930,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"imforthebirds"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":6933677,"authorDomain":"j-clarahan"}
"I think Richard has been pulling the strings all along."
I thought that too until this week's episode. We saw that Locke actually told RA what to do and he seemed to be following orders. We previously thought RA went to pull the bullet out of Locke's leg and told him he was going to have to die of his own volition. This week we saw that he was only following the orders given to him by Locke from another time. I'm not sure that RA knows as much as we have been led to believe up to now. It seems Locke has figured that out.
{"commentId":6933677,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"j-clarahan"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6937429,"authorDomain":"rmoran69"}
say what??
I agree with you completely. I think that RA knows what is going on and is just as much a manipulator as Ben maybe more so since he has been around...like forever...
I think RA was just feeling out Ben when he said Locke would be a problem and Locke was just effing with them both as someone else so elloquently put it.
I think you have uncovered something that has been bothering me for a long time. I have always though Juliet knew much more than she has let on. Even when she was on the sub she didn't seem all that excited about leaving. Is she as old as RA? Who knows, she was brought to the island by RA. Of course we don't know how much of that was real. She may have already been there and then left at some point.
{"commentId":6937429,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"rmoran69"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":6944875,"authorDomain":"Anjillina"}
I agree with you guys 100% about Kate's reason for not wanting to go back - she doesn't want to go to jail. The only reason she got off after the 06 returned was they thought she was a crash survivor and a mom (to Aaron) so let her off from sympathy. She would at least be jailed and would probably be executed. And she'll do ANYTHING to avoid that. I've been watching Season One and at the beginning she would lie, cheat and trick anybody who tried to hold her accountable in any way. She'll do anything to avoid "fixing" the timeline. She'd shoot Jack in the head if she thought it would keep her from going to jail. She is like the one character on the show who hasn't grown or positively changed in ANY way over the course of the show. At least not the way they're showing her now.
{"commentId":6944875,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"Anjillina"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6951148,"authorDomain":"rmiller-1"}
I'd have to disagree, esp about the Kate character. She seems to have grown ethically since the first season and is becoming her own woman, making tough choices since before last season. Yeah, the writers are taking care of Kate.
{"commentId":6951148,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"rmiller-1"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":6957385,"authorDomain":"geenabarone"}
kates always been ethical. she killed step daddy for her ungratefull mom, but, was always remorsfull over it. the other deaths were pure accident, guilt by association kinda thing.
as for Jacob, i read somehwhere who the actor is that will play him ( cant remember who now, tho ) so its not Richard. however, i do think Locke will become Jacob when/if he kills him. if Jacob is the islands "soul" maybe he just keeps jumping from body to body?
heres another thought. what if Smokey IS Jacob? thats why everyone has to go to him, instead of him just appearing where ever he wishes? the fence keeps em both out.
richard is the islands "caretaker" he's the ecosystem that keeps the island healthy. guiding events in the direction the island needs them to go. neither good nor bad, just overseeing.
{"commentId":6957385,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"geenabarone"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":6960519,"authorDomain":"tedsev"}
Kate has always been proud. Do you remember when she and Sawyer got together and later they were in a bedroom at the Other's compound ( I believe Sawyer wanted her to stay at the compound with him, in fact) and he expressed relief that she wasn't pregnant? She walked right out on him. I haven't seen that episode since then, but that is how I remember it. Jack is dismissing all their past - he acts as if he can't even remember it- and she walks out on him too. But I don't think she would shoot Jack in the head, Anjillina, unless it became absolutely necessary.
{"commentId":6960519,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"tedsev"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":6965304,"authorDomain":"chiclet024"}
Good 'Kate' observations from both OnlyChild and missing. I have done some thinking about Kate, but hadn't considered her 'ethics' from the beginning of the storyline or her pride. I will watch out now, though! =)
{"commentId":6965304,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"chiclet024"}
{"commentId":6925238,"authorDomain":"hpaigejr"}
I almost forgot to answer the questions!
How did Richard watch the Losties die?
I had a thought on this one. Richard says that he remembers them because he watched them die. What if he saw some kind of explosion, the bomb blowing, or an electromagnetic pulse, and Jack and company where caught in it. What if that explosion is what pushes them back through time to the future. To Richard it may look like they were annihilated but t was just them disappearing back to their own time.
What is the relationship between Charles and Eloise?
It's hard to think of them as husband and wife. Judging by this episode it looks to me like Eloise is the one that wears the pants in the relationship.
How are Jack and the others going to get the bomb out?
It looks like they may have to steal one of the cool DHARMA buses and strap the bomb to it.
What is the problem with Locke's request to see Jacob?
The more I think about it the more I believe that Locke doesn't believe that Jacob exists. I think he kept asking to go see Jacob to see how Richard and Ben reacted.
Why does Locke want to kill Jacob?
Maybe Locke is thinking that when they get to Jacob's cabin and no one can see him that will prove he doesn't really exist. Wouldn't that be a form of murdering Jacob. He kills the idea of a mysterious figure that leads them. I know this contradicts my last statement in my first post but my head is swimming right now. DAMN THIS SHOW!!! LOL
Herb
{"commentId":6925238,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"hpaigejr"}
- 3 votes
#8 - Wed May 6, 2009 11:16 PM EDT{"commentId":6931464,"authorDomain":"bcoyne1975"}
Good point about them not seeming married. Where did the last name Faraday come from? He's Widmore, she's Hawking. If she's not married, then Faraday wouldn't be her maiden name. Doesn't seem like there was ever a dad in the picture off-island. Why wouldn't he be Hawing too?
{"commentId":6931464,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"bcoyne1975"}
{"commentId":6933066,"authorDomain":"imforthebirds"}
DallBec - Maybe they wanted to keep his relationship to them under wraps because of their connection to the island and gave him a suiting name for their chosen field of study for him.
{"commentId":6933066,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"imforthebirds"}
{"commentId":6934006,"authorDomain":"j-clarahan"}
And this wouldn't be the first time we've seen a character with more than one name...I still have no idea where Jeremy Bentham came from.
{"commentId":6934006,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"j-clarahan"}
{"commentId":6940147,"authorDomain":"jadestarla"}
Widmore named Locke "Jeremy Bentham" when he righted the donkey wheel and ended up off the island. They never say why. Sorry, I don't remember the episode title.
{"commentId":6940147,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"jadestarla"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6940611,"authorDomain":"slrincon"}
How did Richard watch the Losties die?
I know this is probably stupid, but what if he just watched them die of natural causes/old age?
{"commentId":6940611,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"slrincon"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":6942659,"authorDomain":"Paige1086693"}
Charles givess John Locke the name Jeremy Bentham because he (J.B.) was another philosopher. He made a comment about John's parents having a sense of humor when they named him, so he (Charles) did the same thing.
{"commentId":6942659,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"Paige1086693"}
{"commentId":6942762,"authorDomain":"j-clarahan"}
Thanks for the answers :) I always learn about something I missed here.
{"commentId":6942762,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"j-clarahan"}
{"commentId":6959093,"authorDomain":"m-weinert02"}
Richard watches them die-- doesn't anybody remember the purge?? That was my first thought. They would all have died as DI members during Ben's purge, having been living in the 70s. That is, they would have died in the purge unless something else happened on the island prior to Ben releasing the gas. If they detonate the bomb now, it will happen before the purge, and therefore change their own deaths.
HOWEVER, since the past with the H-bomb has not occurred yet (its happening right now) they can't have died from it (yet), and Alpert can't have seen them die via bomb. Also consider that if Locke, Ben, and Sun are talking to Alpert now, their plane has still crashed on the island and the bomb has not yet been detonated. The only other mass killing we know of is the purge, so it might make sense....
My vote is for the purge... at least until next week when they throw 8 more twists into the mix, and then I'm sure I'll change my theory again...
{"commentId":6959093,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"m-weinert02"}
{"commentId":6925324,"authorDomain":"dtateya"}
{"commentId":6925324,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"dtateya"}
- 3 votes
#9 - Wed May 6, 2009 11:22 PM EDT{"commentId":6937668,"authorDomain":"rmoran69"}
Inchiki
Nice thought on another bomb. Could that be what's in the crate that they brought on the Ajira316 flight? Of course sneaking a nuclear device onto an airplane is so easy nowadays. Almost anyone could do it, but if Widmore is behind it, it could happen.
{"commentId":6937668,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"rmoran69"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6925338,"authorDomain":"anagent"}
What's the theory on why Ben, Locke, and Sun stay at the present time after the crash while the others go back to 1977?
{"commentId":6925338,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"anagent"}
#10 - Wed May 6, 2009 11:22 PM EDT{"commentId":6925477,"authorDomain":"j-clarahan"}
Did anyone else get confused when RA was with Eloise, Jack and Sayid and the next second he was with Locke? Hard to keep track of what time they are in. It's become pretty obvious that Locke really is in tune with the island and what it wants though. RA and Ben know more than they are saying...
{"commentId":6925477,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"j-clarahan"}
{"commentId":6933691,"authorDomain":"johnboy813"}
Chelli, it is different time frames, Jack is back in 1977 while Locke is in present day.
{"commentId":6933691,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"johnboy813"}
{"commentId":6942306,"authorDomain":"artzboom82"}
anagent: I don't remember reading any ideas except for the "if they all don't go back, the results could be chaotic" statement by Lady Hawking. i would assume that either there is no real reason (which doesnt sound plausible) or it will be revealed in due time. no personal theories here - way too involved for my brain lol.
{"commentId":6942306,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"artzboom82"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6925549,"authorDomain":"jcjcjp"}
Wow! Where to begin?
How did Richard watch the Losties die?
I'm assuming that at that point in time, they died. All of their choices up to this point end up getting them killed. They still have time to change things. If they are successful this time at changing things, then things can be different. Of course, it could be the biggest reveal of all - the show ends with them dying. I hope that's not how it ends.
I also thought that it was interesting that there were two Lockes in one time period. How did he know when to be at that spot at that particular time? He seems to know many things. I love that Richard is confused! I thought he was all knowing. I have to agree with Locke about Jacob. I've always wondered why these people follow the orders of man they have never seen, yet when I think about religion, isn't that what we all do? Could Jacob be a symbol of religion somehow. In the Bible, Aaron is a great great grandson of Jacob. Could there be a connection?
My biggest question is why didn't the Others go back and forth in time like the Losties, the freighter people, and Juliet? According to Richard, he asked John what he's been doing for the last three years. Time has been normal for the Others. What sets these people apart? If John is now an Other, that would explain why he and Ben didn't travel back in time, but what about Sun?
I find it interesting that both John and Jack have very strong feelings about their purpose on the island. They both talk about it being their destiny. One is in the past and one is in the present. The question I have is, do they both have the same goal? We don't know exactly what Locke's goal is. We do know Jack's - to change the future and stop the plane from crashing. I can't believe Locke wants that to happen. He's found a new life on the island.
I did have one thought. What if Jack is successful at setting off the hydrogen bomb? If theory of whatever happens, happens is correct, then they are doing what was originally done and nothing in the future changes. I don't know, my head is spinning with all of this time travel. The biggest question for me in all of this is that there had to be an original time where they crashed and went back in time. From what I've seen so far, it looks like they've been down this path before, they just don't remember it. Maybe there is something I'm not seeing.
I loved the scene with Chang, Miles, Jin, and Hurley. It was so touching when Chang realized who Miles was. I love how Hurley can't think fast enough to keep up the lie and his line to Chang -"we asked you first." It must be so life altering for Miles to realize that his father was trying to save him and that's why he was so cold to his mother. He's had such a negative view of him and now he knows the truth.
I've been trying to look past Kate's mistakes because I generally liked her in past seasons, but when she got on the sub, I couldn't believe how clueless she is about Sawyer and Juliet. She looks at Sawyer like isn't this great that I'm going back with you? She also tries to thwart everything that Jack is trying to do to change the future.
{"commentId":6925549,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"jcjcjp"}
#11 - Wed May 6, 2009 11:37 PM EDT{"commentId":6928472,"authorDomain":"dcotts42"}
Could Jacob be a symbol of religion somehow. In the Bible, Aaron is a great great grandson of Jacob. Could there be a connection?
Great point I didn't think of that one. Jacob is Christains dad, Clairs Grandpop and Aarons Great grandpop. Oh Great Great so who is Christians dad? Richard maybe
{"commentId":6928472,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"dcotts42"}
{"commentId":6929488,"authorDomain":"sand-ryder"}
everyone rags on kate but I think all the angst comes from sawyer, besides, she was put on the sub involuntarily, it cant really be compared to an old girlfriend tagging along with you and your new girlfriend on a road trip, and of course she doesnt want to go change the future, she was a wanted felon who would be going to jail, it is the same reason sawyer doesnt want to go back, here he has changed who he is, and so has kate, jack doesnt mind, he gets to go back to being a doctor in a world where his dad stays dead
{"commentId":6929488,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"sand-ryder"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":6929865,"authorDomain":"jtribley"}
Jacob isn't Christian's dad - we saw Christian's dad a few episodes back in the nursing home. Remember, he gave Jack the pair of shoes for Locke.
{"commentId":6929865,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"jtribley"}
{"commentId":6929994,"authorDomain":"jenlar96"}
Remember before Jack left to go back to the island he went to the nursing home and saw his grandfather? Remember Jack took his shoes--the ones he put on Locke's feet in the coffin? Not sure where to go with my thought after that though!
{"commentId":6929994,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"jenlar96"}
{"commentId":6931309,"authorDomain":"dcotts42"}
Jacob would have to be Christians Grandfather for Aaron to be the Great great grandson of Jacob.
{"commentId":6931309,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"dcotts42"}
{"commentId":6931937,"authorDomain":"smkc64151-1"}
Aaron would have TWO grandfathers although we have only met Christian. BTW, at the nursing home they told Jack that his grandfather kept disappearing and running away. Maybe when he is gone he has disappeared to the island.
{"commentId":6931937,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"smkc64151-1"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6936031,"authorDomain":"mdbennink"}
Hypothetically, if Jacob is supposed to symbolize Christianity in some way, maybe there's a trinity we should be looking for. Jacob - Holy Spirit, John Locke - Jesus, God the Father - ??
That might set up an interesting idea.
{"commentId":6936031,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"mdbennink"}
{"commentId":6937996,"authorDomain":"rmoran69"}
I think Ray (Christian's dad and Jack grandfather) will come back into play here sometime, but it would have to be Ray's father who would be Aaron's great great grandfather.
{"commentId":6937996,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"rmoran69"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6940977,"authorDomain":"jcjcjp"}
It would be Aaron's great, great grandfather, which wouldn't be Rey - it would have to be his father. I don't know if I believe this, but I thought I would just put it out there to see what others think. It is odd how Christian is tied to Jacob and they did take Clair. I was looking for some kind of connection and came across this. I still can't figure out why they would take Clair and why she would leave Aaron. Just one of the many mysteries I love/hate about this show.
{"commentId":6940977,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"jcjcjp"}
{"commentId":6925608,"authorDomain":"jimceler-1"}
Am I missing something? Didn't this episode show us that Locke, Sun and Ben didn't crash in the present? Didn't the meeting at the plane with Richard take place in 2004?
{"commentId":6925608,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"jimceler-1"}
#12 - Wed May 6, 2009 11:41 PM EDT{"commentId":6926261,"authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
No, Charles, you're not confused...either we all are...or the writers are...see Thread 3!
{"commentId":6926261,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
{"commentId":6926757,"authorDomain":"bcpfeiffer"}
Well not exactly. The meeting with John Locke and Richard Alpert was after the time flashes took John to the future-tonight's episode.
{"commentId":6926757,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"bcpfeiffer"}
{"commentId":6938045,"authorDomain":"rmoran69"}
We all believe it was a flash to the future for Locke....
{"commentId":6938045,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"rmoran69"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6947242,"authorDomain":"superman2001"}
It obviously was. Remember, when 815 crashed, the drug plane was on the cliff, and Boone caused it to fall. When we saw John Locke by the plane after he got shot by Ethan, the plane was on the ground, it had been overgrown by shrubbery, implying that it had been there for some time. So we knew even then that Locke was in the future (for him, because he had been in 2004 before Ben turned the donkey wheel). Now we knew when: 2007, post Ajira crash.
Locke isn't the only one who flashed past the Ajira crash. Sawyer and crew found the Ajira bottle in the outrigger, right before they got shot at.
{"commentId":6947242,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"superman2001"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6925670,"authorDomain":"igottabnuts"}
I keep going back to the training tapes where Chang has a fake arm & we here Daniel in the background. I'm wondering if it takes them a few "tries" to accomplish their end goal, and as they try & fail, they end up going back in time just far enough for Dan to still be alive & whatever "other" attempt they make results in Chang losing some body parts. At that point, they make the tapes referenced a moment ago. We do have 3 "factions"now, all with a "mission" 1) Locke/Jacob, 2) Jack/bomb, 3) sub gettin the hell outa Dodge. I liked Herb's theory on how the Losties don't die, they just get put back in their proper time. I also liked Miles's "lightbulb" moment when he figured out why Chang was being such a hard @$$ to his wife. I'll have to think more tomorrow on the other questions, my brain is fried like bacon tonight.
{"commentId":6925670,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"igottabnuts"}
- 1 vote
#13 - Wed May 6, 2009 11:46 PM EDT{"commentId":6938039,"authorDomain":"reish"}
One of the writers addressed that at a speaking engagement at Ohio State. He said it was a continuty error. Originally they were expecting Daniel to spend more time on the island before being shot by his mother.
{"commentId":6938039,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"reish"}
{"commentId":6949479,"authorDomain":"igottabnuts"}
well crap. Thats what I get for trying to be smarter than I am. Thanks for the info
{"commentId":6949479,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"igottabnuts"}
{"commentId":6925764,"authorDomain":"mkarti1"}
I keep thinking why can't Locke just go back to the donkey wheel, turn it, find Jin and shut Sun up, who's quickly starting to become a one-note horn, constantly barking about wanting to find him. I know, I know, she loves him, blah-blah-blah, but get a hold of yourself already, there are bigger things going on here, so stop being an Asian version of Kate.
I hate Kate. She's so annoying.
Speaking of Jin, besides learning English, he's not developing much is he? He used to be one of the island bad-asses, remember? This was the guy who was the top muscle for a criminal kingpin back in Korea, right? Seems to have turned into, "What's Sawyer think? I won't do anything unless Sawyer thinks its okay. Ask Sawyer if I can go to the bathroom."
The writers just had to put Kate in the sub, didn't they? I hate Kate.
Remember back in Season 2 when Desmond had to wear the yellow rubber suits because of contamination? What if setting off Jughead was the reason for the contamination? What if setting it off is actually causing the loop and not the other way around?
I hate Radzinsky. He should marry Kate. And Horace is a weenie.
{"commentId":6925764,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"mkarti1"}
- 3 votes
#14 - Wed May 6, 2009 11:52 PM EDT{"commentId":6925939,"authorDomain":"mkarti1"}
Also, did anyone else notice the bomb wasn't buried, just tucked away in the basement. the first thing that popped into my head was if Daniel had seen this, he would've been incredulous, saying, "I distinctly remember telling you people that it had to be buried, not tucked away!"
{"commentId":6925939,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"mkarti1"}
- 11 votes
{"commentId":6926107,"authorDomain":"music-lover"}
'Horace is a weenie.... '
Particularly funny when you compare his 'trippy hippie dippy ' role here with his role as 'Percy' in The Green Mile - that was more Radzinsky-esque
{"commentId":6926107,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"music-lover"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":6926131,"authorDomain":"texman7676"}
Maybe the Others were saving the H-bomb in case they needed to use it to protect the island. Seems like a big coincidence that the DI built their village on top of where the bomb was "buried".
{"commentId":6926131,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"texman7676"}
{"commentId":6927144,"authorDomain":"tedsev"}
Speaking of Jin, besides learning English, he's not developing much is he? He used to be one of the island bad-asses, remember? This was the guy who was the top muscle for a criminal kingpin back in Korea, right? Seems to have turned into, "What's Sawyer think? I won't do anything unless Sawyer thinks its okay. Ask Sawyer if I can go to the bathroom."
For sure. I have been thinking this for a few episodes. I have gotten so distracted by the time travel stuff (to put it in generic terms), that I have almost ceased to care if Jin and Sun get together. I wouldn't have cared if Sawyer and Juliet just sailed away on the sub and didn't come back - in fact, it would have been a nice ending for them. They could end the series next week - just get Hurley out of there and blow the place up. It seems the story of the characters has been subjugated to the story of the time shifts mystery for too long and I don't know if it will come together. But maybe it is the allergy meds talking.
{"commentId":6927144,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"tedsev"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":6929893,"authorDomain":"tam19divine"}
Speaking of Jin, besides learning English, he's not developing much is he? He used to be one of the island bad-asses, remember? This was the guy who was the top muscle for a criminal kingpin back in Korea, right?
Does anyone remember the episode when Jin was running to a hospital carrying a Panda Bear at the same time Sun was giving birth to Jeon Yi? But it was Jin who he went to see.... What point in time was he in? Have we seen that back story? I have been thinking about this since they started jumping thru time...
{"commentId":6929893,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"tam19divine"}
{"commentId":6930370,"authorDomain":"backbite"}
Does anyone remember the episode when Jin was running to a hospital carrying a Panda Bear at the same time Sun was giving birth to Jeon Yi? But it was Jin who he went to see.... What point in time was he in? Have we seen that back story? I have been thinking about this since they started jumping thru time...
Wasn't he delivering a panda to one of Sun's father's high priority person?
{"commentId":6930370,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"backbite"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":6933747,"authorDomain":"medtech"}
Yes. Jin's scenes were back before they left Korea. The Panda was for a relative of Sun's father's valuable associate.
The writers intercut those scenes with Sun giving birth to mess with our heads and show how happy Sun and Jin could have been together. But in reality, Sun was alone.
Bummer.
{"commentId":6933747,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"medtech"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6934052,"authorDomain":"johnboy813"}
Yes, Jin was delievering it to one of Sun father's best clients prior to getting on O815. And Sun had her child after she returned.
{"commentId":6934052,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"johnboy813"}
{"commentId":6936127,"authorDomain":"mdbennink"}
Or...maybe that scene of Jin is showing us an alternate timeline (i.e. if the '77 Losties can prevent the plane crash).
{"commentId":6936127,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"mdbennink"}
{"commentId":6941005,"authorDomain":"slrincon"}
backbite -
I think when Jin was delivering a panda - that was a flashback. At that time he was working for his father in law; Then it flashes back to Sun giving birth - in her present.
{"commentId":6941005,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"slrincon"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6941362,"authorDomain":"slrincon"}
backbite -
I think when Jin was delivering a panda - that was a flashback. At that time he was working for his father in law; Then it flashes back to Sun giving birth - in her present.
{"commentId":6941362,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"slrincon"}
{"commentId":6945104,"authorDomain":"Anjillina"}
OnlyChild - AMEN! on the Sawyer/Juliet thing. It would have been the PERFECT ending for them to go off in the sub and either we never see them again or - if they show the future anymore - we see a paper with this old couple and an article about how they've given half their fortune to some charity or something. So of course they had to screw that up.
{"commentId":6945104,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"Anjillina"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6951483,"authorDomain":"ctina1973"}
He can't just go turn the donkey wheel.. it isn't an elevator to take whenever you want to. It was a pretty big deal for Ben to turn it and he was supposed to be banned from the island for doing so. John had to turn it to fix it and had to die before he could come back. Plus it's unpredictable so they wouldn't know when they'd end up. I didn't see Doc Borwn's flux capacitor on it to be programmed with a specific time. ;) Ben went 7 months in the future and John went 3 years. Unless it turns backwards, they would end up in the future.
{"commentId":6951483,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"ctina1973"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":6960646,"authorDomain":"rct"}
is it possible that ben turning the wheel caused the time travels resulting in daniels plan of blowing up the bomb to fix the future, which jack follows through with, therefore blowing up the island, and therefore making the island disappear to the o6 when ben turns the wheel, requiring the o6 to go back to the island and eventually get to the plan to blow up the bomb to fix the future, which requires another turn of the wheel prior to the bomb going off?
{"commentId":6960646,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"rct"}
{"commentId":6925830,"authorDomain":"MadMaxi"}
- How did Richard watch the Losties die?
The DI goon squad lead by Radzinsky,go off to kill the Hostiles and they are involved in the fight before the bomb and "Incident". But I like the idea that they don't die but the Bomb is detonated the same time of the Incident and the forces merge and instead cause a electromagnetic freak storm time travel. The island will somehow see to it Jug head won't explode destroying the Island.
- What is the relationship between Charles and Eloise?
Freaky with boots
- How are Jack and the others going to get the bomb out?
Carefully, they would have to have something that moved it there still in the temple tunnel. BTW if the pregnant women were being slowly exposed to radiation the Others would have known about Jug head since they put it there and it was a part of the long history of the Island. Radiation it seems would have been one of the first things they would have ruled out. Juliet said it was an immune system reaction after the third trimester that starts to kill the babies so I would think the long term exposure to the electro magnetic energy would be the more likely source like people who live near major high voltage towers, or farm animals around them?
- What is the problem with Locke's request to see Jacob?
I think Locke's hubris will cause the force that is Jacob to have a major temper tantrum and show Jacob's full power. Why else would even Richard be hesitant? Richard though figures that Jacob will teach John a lesson and not bother the others for all knowing "Jacob" will already know the ploy. Maybe the DI acid boy"he's our you" will end up being Jacob having done a major hit when the Incident occurs? :) Dr.Leary was right after all! LOL!
- Why does Locke want to kill Jacob?
Think his mind flipped after being brought back to life and now he believes his own delusion that he is special and since he was such a mess pre-island he has no problem wanting to believe he is. John hearing Jacob's "Help me" call seems to me like a possible red herring to throw everybody off track of a major story twist. Another shiny key moment which makes me still wonder what part Jacob might play with Hurley since he was shown the cabin and saw people inside.
{"commentId":6925830,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"MadMaxi"}
#15 - Wed May 6, 2009 11:58 PM EDT{"commentId":6930763,"authorDomain":"mdbennink"}
Is it just me or does the face in the window of the cabin (when Hurley first sees it) look like Phil?
{"commentId":6930763,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"mdbennink"}
{"commentId":6938750,"authorDomain":"rmoran69"}
I believe that Hurley has something to do with Jacob. We know it was Hurley's voice calling out the numbers over the radio that Rousseau heard and eventually Sayid when they went to the tower. What if Hurley's dad is actually Jacob? He did disappear for 17 years from Hurley's life....just a thought...
{"commentId":6938750,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"rmoran69"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":6941720,"authorDomain":"bkornicke"}
Cheech as Jacob? Trippy
{"commentId":6941720,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"bkornicke"}
{"commentId":6925886,"authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
Namaste to all!! I agree with Steve that this was a classic "set-up" episode for the finale!
How did Richard watch the Losties die?
I am not sure or convinced he does...not after Richard's comment to Ben that…'I fear Locke is going to be a real problem...' and his deadpan look at Ben when he replied 'Why do you think I tried to kill him!'....Richard’s behavior/characterization tonight was a big reveal for me! I'm not sure we can believe anymore what he says to anyone in 2007 other than perhaps Ben!
What is the relationship between Charles and Eloise?
A personal relationship which apparently evolved into intimacy at some point, and they are also Co-Leaders of the hostiles and, and perhaps there is another leader as well. In the season 3 episode ‘The Man Behind the Curtain’, a calm introspective Ben answered Hurley’s question at the pit that he had not always been the leader and the “Leaders” ordered the purge and he was just following orders. …ever since then I have theorized that there were multiple co-leaders prior to Ben’s “coup” and included Charles & Ellie, as also referenced this season in the scene with Richard in ‘Whatever happened Happened”.
How are Jack and the others going to get the bomb out?
Flush it through one of the tunnels by destroying a damn holding back a wall of water.
What is the problem with Locke's request to see Jacob?
Maybe what we've seen of him so far is all smoke and mirrors. Definitely a plot twist here and Richard and Ben are afraid that Locke will reveal the truth of their deception and use of it to control the hostiles.
Why does Locke want to kill Jacob?
To destroy the “myth” that he has figured out about Jacob…Locke has had insight and finally determined the meaning of his “Groundhog Day” dream in season 4’s Cabin Fever, when the ‘tricky writers’ have Horace designing and building Jacob’s cabin (which Locke confirmed by going to the Pitt and finding the blueprints in his skeleton uniform…Horace told Lock that he was building a getaway for his wife, and needed a break from the DI. Horace, bleeding from his nose, and told Locke he probably wasn’t making sense because he’d been dead twelve years…and told John is that he needed to find Horace in order to find Jacob…Was the nosebleed and that last statement a reveal that John needs to also go back to pre-purge and see Horace...or was it a clue from the writers that "Jacob" is Horace, who we know died in the purge but his spirit is 'imprisoned' in the cabin and needs Locke's help to be released!? ...I am inclined to the latter.
Cheers: I love the confident smiling Locke!!
Jeers: I really could've used without the tacked on love triangle bit in the sub. Sawyer and Juliet share a moment, followed immediately by Kate entering. It doesn't get more transparent, and the preview for next week's episode looks like they'll be exploring it. Crap.
...Well Said…only Big Crap from the writers to appeal to the Kate/Sawyer fans and that triangle x whatever that has gotten way too old!!!!!!
Herb: YES, since the Jughead episode when Daniel told Ellie that the only way to stop the radiation leak was to encase the bomb in lead and then bury it in cement…that was a big reveal for me that the childbirth issues were induced by a combination of EM and also radiation poisoning from Jughead. Our dear ‘absent-minded professor’ was correct about the need for lead and cement but made the classic error of forgetting where/when he was and to whom he was speaking…the hostiles, living off stolen army clothes, guns, and tents were not about to come up with lead plates or call their local ready mix delivery company to get enough cement for that job!! This theory was confirmed for me in the LaFleur episode when Sawyer told Juliet in ’77 that she could deliver Amy’s baby because “…maybe whatever the problem was hasn’t happened yet”…it hasn’t…the incident plus the radiation poisoning from the bomb have caused the problem.
{"commentId":6925886,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
- 3 votes
#16 - Thu May 7, 2009 12:01 AM EDT{"commentId":6931568,"authorDomain":"medtech"}
YES! Why do we assume that Richard is telling the truth when he said he saw them all die? He wants Sun to stop asking questions and looking for her husband.
Locke's comment "Don't you know?" to Richard's question about where Locke's been for 3 years is designed to show that Richard doesn't know as much as he pretends.
His conversation with Ben and trying to delay Locke going to see Jacob all point to Richard's duplicity.
{"commentId":6931568,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"medtech"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6926000,"authorDomain":"texman7676"}
My theory is that "the incident" at the Swan caused the infertility and pregancy problems...
Who else thinks that Radinski is annoying? Too bad he didn't blow his brains out in 1977.
Big Question - What happened to Bernard and the other survivors that were seperated in the flaming arrow scene. They seemed to have completely disappeared....
{"commentId":6926000,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"texman7676"}
- 1 vote
#17 - Thu May 7, 2009 12:10 AM EDT{"commentId":6926329,"authorDomain":"conwaymsr"}
WHOO-BOY!! Is this a lot of fun, or What?? I'm in the Pacific Time Zone... reading this blog, while I'm watching the episode as it's being broadcast... Ben, Richard and Locke are chatting in the jungle and Locke is instructing Richard how to fix the guy who is going to walk out of the jungle... Richard asks who it is... Locke says "It's me".... etc, etc..
-=M=-
‹(•¿•)›
{"commentId":6926329,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"conwaymsr"}
- 1 vote
#18 - Thu May 7, 2009 12:40 AM EDT{"commentId":6926360,"authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
Hi Merlin....see thread 3 about this scene...it doesn't make sense with the timelines we've been told...Locke was shot by Ethan who was in turn killed by Charlie in 2004!
{"commentId":6926360,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
{"commentId":6926687,"authorDomain":"gotmitch87"}
BlackRock Steve,
If I remember correctly, Locke was shot by Ethan in 2002-ish but 'flashed' to a different time (which we now know is 2007/08) just before being killed by Ethan.
Check out the Lostpedia.com entry for "Because You Left" for a refresher. Sorry I don't know the exact dates...it's a bit confusing :P
{"commentId":6926687,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"gotmitch87"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6926795,"authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
THANKS FOR THE Episode tip...YES, you are right!! I'll add detail and correct my post to thread 3.
{"commentId":6926795,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
{"commentId":6945155,"authorDomain":"conwaymsr"}
Richard dives underwater. Jack shakes hands with Sayid and says if he doesn't see him on the other side he doesn't blame him. Eloise tells Jack to take a deep breath and follow Richard under. Jack dives as well and swims through a cave. He
comes to an ancient structure on the other side, and asks Richard where they are. Richard tells him they're in the tunnels. Jack asks how they're going to get the bomb out, and Richard says the same way they got in -- but not through the pool. ~ Steven Watts ~
~ REGARDING THE POWERS OF RICHARD ALPERT ~
Please bear with me if I repeat any portions of my previous postings/theories about Richard Alpert. I have a very strong belief that Richard Alpert is an Alien or a descendant of an alien, stranded here on earth with what remains of his starship(that powers the island and Smokey). When Richard says what he says (above) about moving Jughead, I believe that he is inferring that he can move Jughead from anywhere to anywhere without using the puny powers alloted to human beings. As in "Beam me up Scotty" or "Beam me directly to the bridge[or sickbay]Scotty" For the sake of argument, let's say that Richard(and/or smokey)should also be able to detonate Jughead if he/they should choose to. And.. I would hope, be able to prevent the humans from detonating Jughead if it should be deemed harmful to either Richard or the island/starship. So please don't be surprized if the big reveal in next weeks season finale has something to do with what Richard(either alone or in conjunction with Smokey)is able to move Jughead without touching it. There are very many possibilities for whichever/whatever/whenever cliff they will leave us hanging from, but you can safely bet your share of "The Bailout" that they will leave us chatting and speculating about it until November! ~ ~ And there you have my 'take' on "The Powers of Richard Alpert" that will be continued after a short intermission and a few words from our sponsors.....
There may be certain incidents or things that may have been said previously that punch holes in this theory, but if so, they have leaked thru the seive that is my mind... and if THAT is so, I apologize prolifically!
-=M=-
‹(•¿•)›
{"commentId":6945155,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"conwaymsr"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":6926420,"authorDomain":"goldenskies"}
Still watching but, SAYID's back!!!
{"commentId":6926420,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"goldenskies"}
#19 - Thu May 7, 2009 12:49 AM EDT{"commentId":6926550,"authorDomain":"Erinlibbay"}
I think the answer to Locke's need to kill Jacob may be a selfish desire to have control of the island - not to set the Others free. I have to think the hydrogen bomb fails to detonate but continues to leak, maybe worse due to their efforts. Should the bomb go off, would the island have completely regrown by the 1990's, in time for the DI purge? Question - is Locke a physical being now or is he a physical manifestation of spirits trapped - like Christian, Claire, and Jacob?
{"commentId":6926550,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"Erinlibbay"}
#20 - Thu May 7, 2009 1:01 AM EDT{"commentId":6939462,"authorDomain":"speierc"}
If the blow it up underground, maybe..depending on how deep? Orchid??
{"commentId":6939462,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"speierc"}
{"commentId":6926667,"authorDomain":"conwaymsr"}
CHEERS: The closing scene(s) of this episode...
Ben ~ "So why are we going to see him?"(Jacob) Locke "So I can Kill him"
I don't think Locke is intending on finding and stopping the life of an actual physical living being. I DO think that Locke is taking "His People" to see for themselves that Jacob is not real, thereby "Killing" Jacob in their 'belief system'.... . Boy-O-Boy! is the season finale next week going to be "A REAL CORKER"! ~ And as Ellie said in the final scene... "Alright... What do we do next?"
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{"commentId":6926667,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"conwaymsr"}
#21 - Thu May 7, 2009 1:15 AM EDT{"commentId":6930154,"authorDomain":"jilie-t"}
How can jacob not be real - who did Sun and the pilot talk to? We know it wasnt really jack's dad?!?!?!?
{"commentId":6930154,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"jilie-t"}
{"commentId":6933037,"authorDomain":"conwaymsr"}
misquote - Ellie's last line was "Well, now what"?
Every person that anybody sees who is dead or non-existent is just a manifestation show put on by the Smoke monster - <- MY OPINION
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{"commentId":6933037,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"conwaymsr"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":6934523,"authorDomain":"Foundling"}
I find Locke killing Jacob in front of all 'his people' an interesting parallel with the time that Ben told Locke he had to kill his father in front of all the Others. When he couldn't do it... Ben told everyone that Locke isn't who they thought he was. Maybe Locke IS who they thought he was (their leader)... and maybe now it IS time to kill his father... I mean Jacob... I mean... hmmmmm.
What season was it that we first saw Locke's father/the guy who killed Sawyer's mother? Locke had Sawyer do it... but maybe the guy is only 'island' dead and not all dead (as others have commented). Now Locke has to clean up his messes and finish the job to become the leader he is intended to be.
Would love to find out if there is a real connection here...
{"commentId":6934523,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"Foundling"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":6926740,"authorDomain":"chrisandfaith"}
regarding the 2004/2007 continuity issue with Ethan shooting Locke 3 years following his own death: I have deleted the episode in which that happenned, but did Locke skip in time immediately after being shot? If so, that could conceivably put him in 2007.
And if the writers did make a mistake, they could find a way to write that scene into a future episod to cover their gaffe
{"commentId":6926740,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"chrisandfaith"}
#22 - Thu May 7, 2009 1:24 AM EDT{"commentId":6926784,"authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
YES, you are right!! I'll add detail and correct my post to thread 3.
{"commentId":6926784,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"BlackRockSteve"}
{"commentId":6926808,"authorDomain":"plasticman58"}
am a first time poster but have read this for a while as far as richard watching the losties die since nothing has happened yet to change the future i would guess that they are still in the DI at the time of the purge and would have died then so richard would have watched them die love watching the show and reading this yall make me think of stuff i never would otherwise lol
{"commentId":6926808,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"plasticman58"}
#23 - Thu May 7, 2009 1:33 AM EDT{"commentId":6935837,"authorDomain":"mark-reeves"}
They kicked them all out of the DI when Jack and Kate stole guns and they found phil in the closet.
{"commentId":6935837,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"mark-reeves"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":6968449,"authorDomain":"plasticman58"}
my point was that richard saw the picture and assumed they died in the purge not that he actually saw them die
{"commentId":6968449,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"plasticman58"}
{"commentId":6927055,"authorDomain":"daunda"}
How did Richard watch the Losties die?
When the Whole Dharma Initiative was gased and ben becane the leader. Some things in this show have not been all smoke and mirrors. We never saw a time flash to that event so jack and company could have been in killed in that incident. just because we haven't seen it yet does not mean it did not happen.
What is the relationship between Charles and Eloise?
I think a more important question to ask first is how did those two end up on the island. I think we will get the answer to the question above when that question is answered.
How are Jack and the others going to get the bomb out?
They won't
What is the problem with Locke's request to see Jacob?
I have two theories on this one. The first I think Faradey (sp) is Jacob. Faraday is the only other person other ben and and locke to time travel. (Ben and locke via the donkey wheel and the plane flight) Now peep this. Faradey was the only person outside of the island to time travel (other than his girlfriend who became veg because he had not perfected it yet and it fried her brain). John had to die outside the perimeter of the island (los Angeles) and have his body brought back to the island via the time jump in order to return. I think Eloise tricked ben into doing this so he would bring back john to the island so he could do the same thing for her son Daniel.
Faradey died on the island but dead is dead right? Not for Faradey because he has been exposed to time travel prior to his death (just like Locke) when Faradey was killed on the island his timeline outside of perimeter the island still exsist. (When you time travel to the outside world from the island you create a new place on the time that co-exsist with the the timeline you have on the island. To ressurrect (sp) yourself in the other timeline you have to know to manipulate the jump from one timeline to another. (Death and then the time jump is the only way this can happen either way) Faradey has been in a limbo state because of the islands properties. Eloise knows this i believe, because of the work in son's journal. I believe it was not Eloise's work that was saw in Los Angeles when she was explaining what Jack and company had to do in order to get back to the island it was Daniel's work that she had perfected.
Now peep this! the reason john has a deeper sense of the island is because he communicating with Faradey! (crazy i know but think about it) Faradey (jacob) has been looking for someone like him (which is john). He pick different people because he was hoping to make a connection but never did until John. Ben has never talked to jacob because he never could. Dead Is dead in the present but this is a different world entirely, which is why john is alive (he returned to his timeline on the island via the ending of his timeline outside of the island and the time jumping to his island timeline in which he is still alive). All of the different manifestations of people like christian and claire that we are seeing are what Faradey has become but because he is here to destroy the island he is being held captive by the black smoke. which is what was around the cabin perimeter when ben first took john to see jacob (Faradey) i believe. I hope that makes sense some what. So don't be surprised if when jacob is revealed that it is Faradey and then you see the black smoke monster which is Richard and others.
My second theory is that Jacob is a ruse and is really the smoke monster. That's it on that one no more to say because it is so thin. or is it?
Why does Locke want to kill Jacob?
see question and answer above.
{"commentId":6927055,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"daunda"}
- 4 votes
#24 - Thu May 7, 2009 2:13 AM EDT{"commentId":6935807,"authorDomain":"sguido"}
Faraday is the only other person other ben and and locke to time travel
What about Charlotte, Miles, Sawyer and Juliet ?
{"commentId":6935807,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"sguido"}
{"commentId":6943024,"authorDomain":"artzboom82"}
i think daunda is saying that faraday is the only other person to time travel off island (in his lab via the "street light" express). the four you named time travelled while ON the island. as for john, he traveled in time AND space when he turned the donkey wheel and ended up three years in the future in tunisia (was it tunisia? i keep thinkin it is cuz darlton are such star wars fanboys).
{"commentId":6943024,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"artzboom82"}
{"commentId":6927257,"authorDomain":"MikeAP"}
What is the relationship between Charles and Eloise?
I don't know, but I defintely saw Charles touching Eloise's stomach. I assume she's already pregnant with Daniel.
Why does Locke want to kill Jacob?
My theory is that Locke still doesn't believe Jacob even exists and he was speaking metaphorically. By taking everyone to see that there is no Jacob, he will thus "kill" the idea of this mysterious man behind the curtain.
{"commentId":6927257,"threadId":"572496","contentId":"2782414","authorDomain":"MikeAP"}
- 2 votes
#25 - Thu May 7, 2009 2:53 AM EDT{"canLink":false,"threadId":"572496","isPrivate":false}
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