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LOST: A Glimpse at What Could've Been in "LA X"

Tue Feb 2, 2010 11:46 PM EST
By Steve Watts

Live Poll

What did you think of tonight's episode(s)?

View Results
  • 81207
    Fantastic
    58%
  • 81208
    Pretty good
    36%
  • 81209
    Mediocre
    5%
  • 81210
    Terrible
    1%

VoteTotal Votes: 329

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The Losties deal with the effects of Jack's actions, as Ben starts to realize the dark intentions of Jacob's Nemesis. Meanwhile, the Oceanic 815 survivors live on their lives in some other way, landing safely in Los Angeles.

ABC Preview:

Oceanic Air flight 815 tore apart in mid-air and crashed on a Pacific island, leaving 48 passengers alive and stranded on a remote island in the South Pacific. The survivors include a diverse group of people from different walks of life - a doctor, an escaped fugitive, a con man, an Iraqi interrogator, a married Korean couple and a man formerly confined to a wheelchair who is now inexplicably healed. As the castaways attempt to get home, flashbacks (and forwards) illuminate their troubled lives before and after the crash, when the island they find themselves stranded on begins to slowly reveal its mysterious nature. Faith, reason, destiny and free will all clash as the island offers opportunities for both corruption and redemption... but as to its true purpose? That's the greatest mystery of all.

With only 18 original hours left until the final episode airs, the island's violent shifts through time were ended by Locke when he traveled off-island in an attempt to persuade the Oceanic 6 to return. Back on the island, the survivors' stay in late ‘70s Dharmaville was over when their covers were blown and they were accused of aiding "The Others," and Sayid was gravely wounded during their flight. In addition, Ben killed Jacob at Locke's request. But since Locke's body was found to still be inside the coffin, exactly who – or what – is John Locke? And if Juliet was successful in detonating the hydrogen bomb, was she able to reset time, allowing Oceanic Air 815 to land safely in Los Angeles, or was the island destroyed along with all of its inhabitants?

Note: "Lost in the Vines" is made for discussion of the series "Lost" on ABC. As such, here be spoilers! We talk frankly about the events of the night, speculate about future events, and so on. Read no further if you don't want spoilers.

The Big Reveal: Jacob's Nemesis is the Smoke Monster; the Losties are living on in L.A. through some kind of temporal event; Juliet has died and revealed that Jack plan worked; Sayid has died and was revived inside the Temple.

Summary

Jack looks out the window of a plane. He looks puzzled for a few moments, and Cindy asks how his drink is. He says it's not a strong drink, and she slips him an extra bottle. The plane hits some turbulence and Jack spills his drink. Rose, from across the aisle, tells him that it's normal. She mentions her husband in the bathroom, and Jack tells her he'll keep her company until he comes back. He tells her not to worry, then the plane hits heavy turbulence for several tense moments. Suddenly, it ends. Rose tells him he can let go of his seat. Jack tells her, it looks like we made it. She says, yeah, we sure did. Bernard comes back to join Rose at the seat and jokes that he almost died in the bathroom. They say they missed each other and kiss.


Jack gets up from his seat and goes to the bathroom. He notices an injury on his neck and blots it with a tissue. He exits and goes back to his seat, moving next to Desmond. Desmond apologizes for moving seats and explains that the guy next to him had been snoring. Jack regards Desmond for a moment, and asks if he knows him from somewhere. Desmond says he isn't sure and they introduce themselves. Desmond jokes that it's nice to meet Jack, or to see him again.

The camera moves down from the plane, into the ocean, below the water, and we see the entire Island deep underwater, including the DHARMA colony and the Statue.

----------------

The bomb falls into the Swan pit, and Juliet falls in after it. She hits the bomb with a rock until it explodes. Kate wakes up, hanging from a tree. She screams but all she hears is a ringing. She climbs down from the tree and starts searching. Miles approaches her and she tackles him before recognizing him. She asks what happened and he says he can't hear her -- his ears are ringing. She spots a station and says they're back. She leads him to a ditch, the crater of the Swan hatch after Desmond blew it up. She notices Jack's laying in the grass and wakes him up. He asks what happened and Kate tells him they're at the hatch. Sawyer enters and kicks Jack in the head, screaming that he was wrong. He angrily comes after him, yelling that they're back where they started and now Juliet's dead. Jack apologizes, he says he thought it would work.

Jack walks to the bathroom and passes the U.S. Marshall Edward Mars. Mars takes away Kate's knife and fork, and Sawyer bumps into him as he walks through the aisle of the plane. Meanwhile, Artz bothers Hurley to say the Mr. Cluck's slogan. Hurley reluctantly does. Artz asks how he came to own it, and he says he won the lottery. Sawyer tells him he shouldn't tell people he won the lottery, because people will take advantage. Hurley says that's not going to happen, because nothing bad happens to him. He's the luckiest guy alive.

Hurley asks Jin what just happened, and Jin says they moved through time. Hurley asks what happened to Jack and the others, and Jin says he isn't sure. They hear Sawyer's yelling, and Jin goes to find it while Hurley stays with Sayid.

Jack says the bomb must've gone off, and Sawyer challenges him. Jack says he doesn't know what happened, and Sawyer yells at him more. Jin comes and tells him that Sayid is still bleeding and needs him. Kate hears something from the wreckage, and they start to frantically pull at the metal as Sawyer cries out for Juliet.

Hurley tends to Sayid, who asks what will happen when he dies. Hurley tells him not to talk. Sayid says he tortured people, and wherever he's going can't be pleasant. Sayid says he deserves it. Hurley hears a noise and calls for Jin. He gets a gun and fumbles with it while shouting out to threaten whoever is nearby. He sees Jacob in the tall grass, who asks if he has a minute.

----------------

Jin asks Sun why he was staring at Rose and Bernard. He tells her to button her shirt. Meanwhile, Locke reads his safety brochure. Boone tells he's wasting his time, and Locke argues that in calm seas they'd be alright until they reach a life raft. Boone asks what he was doing in Australia, business or pleasure. Locke says pleasure, and asks Boone. Boone explains that his sister didn't want to get out of a bad relationship, so here he is. Locke tells him he went on a walkabout. He talks about how they spent nights under the stars and hunted their own food. Boone asks if he's pulling his leg, and Locke asks why he'd do that. Boone says if the plane goes down he's sticking with him.

Nemesis cuts a swath of fabric from the carpet in the statue, and uses it to clean blood off the knife. He tells Ben to stop staring at the fire, and says that Jacob is gone. Ben asks why he didn't fight him, and Nemesis says he guesses he just knows he was beaten. He tells Ben to go find Richard and tell him they need to talk. Ben asks what about, and Nemesis says that's between the two of them.

Sun asks Frank about the other followers. Frank explains that they knocked him out and claim they're the good guys. He says he's not buying it.

Richard stops Ilana and Bram from entering the Temple, and says no one goes in unless Jacob invites them. Ilana says they were invited, and Richard says asking them what lies in the shadow doesn't qualify. Ben comes out and says everything's fine and that John wants to speak with him. Ilana asks if Jacob is alright, and Ben says he's alright and they're together inside. Richard grabs Ben's arm, and shows him Locke's body. Ben stares at it.

----------------

Jack, Sawyer, Miles, and Kate dig through the wreckage for Juliet. Sawyer tells Jin to go get the van to help, and Jin rushes off.

Hurley asks Jacob where he's going, what he's doing, and the strange circumstances around his return. Jacob goes to Sayid's body and crouches over it. Hurley says Jin will be here soon, but Jacob says Jin won't be able to see him. Hurley asks why not and Jacob says he died an hour ago. He explains that he was killed by an old friend who grew tired of his company. Jacob tells him that he needs him to save Sayid. He details how to take Sayid to the Temple, and that Jin knows where it is because of his time with the French team. He asks if Hurley has the guitar case he gave him. Hurley says yes, and Jacob tells him to bring it. Hurley asks who he is, and Jacob tells him his name. Jin comes back, and Jacob is gone.

Jin drives the van with Hurley and Sayid riding, and Hurley asks him about the location Jacob described. They pull the van to the wreckage site. Sawyer still digs desperately, and Jin gets the chains from the van. They latch onto the wreckage, and Sawyer says that if she dies, he's going to kill Jack.

An announcement comes from Cindy asking for a doctor. She leads him to the lavatory, and Sayid offers assistance by kicking the door in. Jack finds Charlie unconscious, and says he's not breathing.

----------------

Sawyer asks what's going on and the stewardess tells him to stay in his seat. Jack and Sayid start emergency assistance, and Jack notices something is blocking Charlie's air passage. He asks for a razor, but regulation prevents anything sharp. Jack reaches into Charlie's throat and pulls out a pouch of drugs. Charlie wakes and asks if he's alive. Jack says he is, and Charlie replies: terrific.

Jin starts to pull on the beam with the van, and it dislodges. Sawyer jumps down into the pit of wreckage and finds Juliet laying under a piece of metal. He moves wreckage off of her and she slowly wakes. She asks where they are, and he tells her not to worry and that he'll get her out of here. She says it didn't work, they're still on the Island. He says he just has to get it loose to get her out. She cries, saying she hit the bomb and they're still here. She says she wanted to let him go home and make it so he never came to the Island, and it didn't work. He tells her not to worry about that, and that she'll be okay. He says they'll all go home together.

In the van, Jack says the bleeding isn't stopping for Sayid, and there's nothing he can do for him. Hurley explains about the Temple, and mentions Jacob. Jack asks who Jacob is, and Hurley asks if it matters. He says if Jack can't fix Sayid, he's going to have to let him do it.

Ben continues to look at the body of Locke. Richard comes and tells him he needs to tell him what happened so he can stop them. He asks what happened, as a friend. Ben tells Richard that if he wants to know what happened, he should go inside and find out. Bram grabs Ben and says they're going in, and he's coming too.

In the Temple, Nemesis asks where Richard is. Nemesis asks who it is behind him, and Bram's group comes in carrying guns. He asks where Jacob is, and Nemesis says he's dead. Bram asks who he is. Nemesis says, let's talk about you. He assumes they're Jacob's bodyguard. He says, good news, Jacob burned up in the fire. Now there's nothing left to protect, so they can go. They're free. Bram fires but it bounces off Nemesis, and he disappears. Bram finds the bullet, and they hear the Smoke Monster before seeing it come in through the doorway. It grabs the bodyguards and tosses them around as Bram spreads a trail of ash around him. The Smoke Monster stops short of the ash, but collapses a piece of the ceiling, throwing Bram off balance. The Smoke Monster grabs and impales him.

Ben looks around the room and sees Nemesis again. Nemesis says, he's sorry Ben had to see him like that.

----------------

Sawyer continues to work at helping Juliet out of the ditch, finally lifting off the last piece of metal. He holds her and tells her not to worry. She starts talking about getting coffee, going dutch, and he faces her. She asks him to kiss her, and they do. She says she has to tell him something, and it's really important. Sawyer asks her to tell him, and she goes quiet. He holds her close and cries. He emerges holding her body and tells Jack that he did this.

Air marshals arrest Charlie, who tells Jack he should've let it happen. He says he was supposed to die. Cindy tells Jack not to take it personally, who goes back to his seat. He asks Rose and Bernard if they know what happened to Desmond, and she says they were asleep so they didn't see him leave. The captain comes on to announce that they'll be landing in LAX shortly. Sawyer and Hurley sit up. Sayid looks at a picture of Nadia. Jin looks at the watch he's set to deliver. Boone puts his tray table up. Kate and Jack watch out the window as they land. Police officers come to arrest Charlie, who gives Jack a look as he passes by. Kate and her guard get up from their seats. Boone shakes Locke's hand and leaves. The passengers step out one by one. Jack and Locke meet eyes as airline workers help Locke to his wheelchair.

End of LA X, Part 1

Jack and Jin get out a stretcher and help Sayid into it. Hurley gets out his guitar case and Miles cracks a joke about singing kumbaya. Hurley says it's not a guitar, and Miles asks what it is. Sawyer grabs a shovel to bury Juliet; Kate offers to help but he tells her to help with Sayid. Sawyer asks Miles to help bury Juliet. Kate says they'll leave a trail to follow, but Sawyer says he's not following. They start to carry Sayid away.

Jack gets a page to report to the nearest courtesy desk. Jack comes and the attendant tells him there's been a mix-up with the cargo from Sydney, a coffin. Jack asks if it's not here, and the man says it appears it was never put on the plane. Jack tells him the funeral is in two hours, and asks when it will get here. The man says he's not sure when it will arrive because they're not sure where it is.

Jack and Jin carry Sayid to the Temple. Hurley observes that there's a big wall, and explains to everyone that he'll bring Sayid in through a small hole in the floor. They carefully help him down the hole and into the Temple. Kate empties out a pack from a dead body for supplies. Hurley wonders why the dead body brought a book, and why his arm is missing. Jin explains that his arm was ripped off by the black smoke. They move ahead with flashlights, and carefully move across a narrow passageway. Kate goes ahead with a lantern; Jack clears the narrow pass and asks where Kate is. Hearing no response, he moves ahead quickly, then hears Hurley scream from behind him. He runs back for him, and is suddenly grabbed and knocked out. The strangers bring him to join Hurley, Kate, and Jin. They're lead to a pond overlooking the Temple.

----------------

Kate is checked in by customs by Mars, and says she needs to go to the bathroom. He denies at first, but relents. He takes her to the ladies room, and she uses a pen to pick her handcuffs. Mars notices the spring of the pen and tells her to open the door. Things get tense, and she slams the door on his head, knocking him unconscious. She grabs his gun, and tells two women entering that this man just came in and attacked her. Kate quickly finds her way to the elevator where Sawyer is. He tells her they were on the same flight from Sydney. The door opens again, allowing in some security officers. A radio signal comes in saying they have a security code. Sawyer asks what it is, and they say it's confidential. Sawyer says he wouldn't know when he sees it then, and steps out of the elevator.

Sawyer and Miles pack the grave. Miles starts to offer a beer, and Sawyer asks what Juliet wanted to tell him before she died. Miles says that's not how it works. Sawyer tackles him and says he knows she's gone, but orders Miles to tell him. Miles puts his head to the ground, and after a few minutes, he says it worked. Juliet wanted to say it worked. Sawyer reels back, asking what worked. He stalks off angrily.

The natives bring Jack's group to the Temple, where a man comes out and asks who they are. Cindy steps forward and explains that they're from Oceanic 815 with her. The man speaks in another language, and his translator commands his men to shoot them. Hurley yells out that Jacob sent them, and everyone stops. Hurley explains that Jacob sent them to help his friend. They ask him to prove it; when Hurley hesitates, they cock their guns. Hurley shouts that he gave him the guitar case. They ask if he looked inside it, and he just says "maybe." They open it to reveal a large wooden ankh. The leader breaks it over his knee and withdraws a piece of paper. He asks for their names, and each of them give them. They ask for the name of the body, and they tell him his name is Sayid. The translator tells his men to get Sayid to the spring. Hurley stops them, demanding to know what the paper says. The translator steps forward and tells him the paper says that if his friend dies, they're all in a lot of trouble.

----------------

A security officer asks Jin for details regarding the watch. Jin asks if they can continue on their way, and interrupts their search. The officer opens a pouch full of cash and asks what he's doing with it. He says anything over 10,000 dollars has to be declared. Sun asks why he has all that money, and he snaps at her that he'll handle it. Another security officer asks if she understands English, she can speak up to clear up the misunderstanding. Sun says she speaks no English.

The translator walks into the Temple and observes that the water isn't clear. He asks what happened. The man says something in foreign talky and walks around it. He cuts his hand and holds his hand in the water. Kate asks what he's doing, and Jack says he doesn't know. The leader says something and the translator asks who did this to him. Jack says it's his fault; he didn't shoot but it's his fault. The translator explains that there are risks, and asks if they understand. Jack tells them to do what they have to do.

The translator tells the men to take off Sayid's coveralls and put him in. The men move quickly and put Sayid into the water. They hold his body underneath it and the leader starts an hourglass. Hurley asks if unconscious people can hold their breath. Jack says no. Sayid starts to thrash around, and Jack tells them to let him up. Jack tries to run to help him, and he's disarmed by the leader. Hurley shouts that they're drowning him. Sayid goes limp, and when the hourglass runs out the leader motions them to help him out of the water. The men remove Sayid's body and the leader holds a hand over Sayid's face. He says something and leaves. The translator tells them, your friend is dead. Jack walks to Sayid and checks for a pulse, then starts administering CPR. Kate urges him to stop and says that he's dead and not coming back.

----------------

Sayid watches for his luggage while looking at the picture of Nadia. Kate comes nearby, carefully sneaking around a corner and observing a woman using a security code to get into a locked door. She's spotted by some guards, and rushes to use the code to enter the locked door. She jogs up an escalator and finds her way to a cab. She's stopped by Neil Frogurt, who tells her there's a line. She gets in line behind Hurley and watches for the guards. Mars catches her eye and she runs into a cab. The cabbie tells her that he has a customer, and she holds a gun to him. The customer is Claire, but Kate demands that he goes now. The cab speeds off and leaves Mars behind.

Jack sits over the body of Sayid thoughtfully. Cindy brings children in to offer some food. The guards bring in Sawyer and Miles. Sawyer is knocked out, and Miles explains that Sawyer took out four of the guards before he was hit by a rock. The translator tells Hurley to meet with him.

Hurley enters a room with the leader. The translator asks what Jacob told him. Hurley explains that he said they would save Sayid. The man says he was beyond saving. Hurley realizes that the leader understands English, and he says he doesn't like speaking English. The translator asks when Jacob is coming to the Temple. Hurley says that's not happening because he's dead. The man looks at him stunned, and Hurley asks if they didn't know.

Alarm bells sound, and the guards start spreading ash around the walls of the Temple, along with fortifications. They fire a rocket into the air as they reinforce the walls. Hurley asks if they're not getting out. The translator says it's not to keep them in, it's to keep him out. Hurley asks, who?

Nemesis drags a body, and Ben asks what he is. Nemesis says he's a who, and Ben says he's the monster. Nemesis says they shouldn't resort to name calling. Ben realizes that he couldn't kill Jacob himself, so he made him do it. Nemesis says he didn't "make" him do anything. He says Ben should know he was very confused when he killed him. Ben says Jacob was never confused, but Nemesis says he's talking about Locke. He says the last thought in Locke's head when Ben killed him was that he didn't understand. He says it's fitting, in a way, because when Locke came to the Island he was a sad victim. He says Locke was weak and broken, but despite all that, he was the only one who didn't want to leave. He was the only one who realized how pitiful the life he left behind was. Ben asks Nemesis what he wants. Nemesis says that's the great irony, because he wants the one thing John Locke didn't. He wants to go home.

----------------

Hurley tells Sayid goodbye, and tells him that if he ever wants to talk, he's around. Miles gives a quizzical look. Kate tends to Sawyer until he comes to. He asks where they are, and she tells him they're in a Temple. He asks if it's the Others again. She says yes, but this time they're protecting them. Sawyer sits up, and Kate tells him that she's sorry. Sawyer glares at Jack. Kate tells him Jack's just trying to help us. Sawyer says he's not going to kill Jack, because he deserves to suffer just like the rest of them.

Jack talks to his mother on the phone, saying he scheduled the funeral soon because he wanted to get it over with. He says they can't have the service without the body so he'll call if he hears anything. Locke asks Jack what they lost, and Jack jokes that he wouldn't believe him. Locke says to try him, and Jack explains the situation with his father's casket. Locke gives his condolences. Jack says the body is apparently somewhere in transit, meaning they've got no idea where he is. Locke says, how could they know where he is? He says they didn't lose Jack's father, just his body. Jack starts to cry. Locke says all that was in his suitcase was a bunch of knives. Jack asks if he's some kind of salesman. Locke says he hopes he finds the coffin, and Jack says he hopes he finds the knives. Jack asks what happened to Locke, and explains he's curious because he's a spinal surgeon. Locke says his injury is irreversible, but Jack says nothing is irreversible. He hands him his card and tells him that if he ever wants a consult, to give him a call for one on the house. They introduce themselves and Locke exits.

Richard sees the rocket flare in the sky. Ben and Nemesis exit, and everyone trains their guns on Nemesis. Richard tells them not to shoot as Frank stares in wonder. Nemesis greets him and says it's good to see him out of the chains. Richard recognizes him, and Nemesis punches him in the throat, then knees him in the head to knock him out. He tells everyone that he's disappointed in them, then picks up Richard and walks away.

The translator asks to speak with Jack privately. Jack says if he has to say something to say it. The translator says he needs to follow or be dragged out. Jack challenges them and starts to fight. Hurley watches Sayid getting up and calls for Jack. Jack turns around and sees Sayid, who asks what happened.

Cut to LOST

The Big Questions:

  • Why are the Losties both on the Island and off of it?
  • What did Juliet mean by "it worked"?
  • What does Nemesis need to talk to Richard about?
  • What happened to Desmond on the plane?
  • Where is Christian's coffin?
  • Who are the people in the Temple?
  • What is the significance of the Temple's water not being clear?
  • What was the purpose of the firework flare?
  • Where is the Nemesis' home that he wants to go to?
  • What chains was Nemesis referring to?
  • Why is Nemesis disappointed in the people on the beach?
  • Where is Nemesis taking Richard?
  • What did the Temple leader want to talk to Jack about?
  • How did Sayid come to life again?

Lost in the Vines Trivia Question:

What was the airline security code that Sawyer and Kate overheard?

This Week (Or Month or Two) in Original Articles:

Once again those who write original articles this year will be entered (once per week) in this year's contest. Contributing original articles or being the first to answer the trivia questions are the ways to be entered, so feel free to write! Check out these two examples of original writing from over the break. Official entries start with original articles written from this week forward:

  • Steven Watts Talks About Watching, Reviewing, and Recapping the Final Season of Lost (Scott Butki)
  • Mommas Don't Let Your Baby Grow Up To Be The Anti-Christ! Lost: The Final Season, Theories and Predictions (Sebastian Palpatine)

Next, on Lost: What Kate Does (coming soon)

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

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  • Public Discussion (493)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3 ... 5
Herbcules74

Hello to everyone. Here I am again, 10 minutes after watching Lost, waiting for Steve to post this weeks recap so I can discuss the episode with all of the intelligent people on here. First let me say I missed all of this almost as much as I missed Lost itself. While I was excited about the return of my favorite show, after watching it I feel a little disappointed. A lot of articles I have been reading hinted on some questions being answered in the season premier, but of course in regular Lost fashion, this episode brought up far more questions then it answered. I assume the 2 separate story lines represent events happening in parallel universes, one where the bomb works and the plane makes it to LA, and one where it doesn't work and the gang ends up back in their proper time. I found some major flaws in both story lines.

In the story line where the plane doesn't crash we see that the island is on the bottom of the ocean. The detonation of the bomb must have sunk the Island. The one major flaw that I find with this story line is, Why is Hurley on the plane? Everyone else had a reason to be there, I can even see Desmond being there since he never ended up on the Island, but Hurley originally went to Australia to track down the partner of the guy from the mental institution. The one from who he first heard the numbers. If the Island is blown up in 1977 the guy in the institution never would have heard the numbers. Therefore Hurley never would have used those numbers to win the lottery. If he never won the lottery there would have been no reason for him to go to Australia. For me this story line doesn't work. I believe they did try to allude to the fact that Hurley was in Australia to open a new Mr. Clucks restaurant but that still doesn't explain his winning of the lottery. Unless the producers are just trying to pass off he got lucky with those numbers and won on his own. I know that is a possibility but there's just something I don't like about that. It was interesting seeing how most of the characters did end up meeting each other even in this storyline. I can't wait to see what happens with Kate and Clair in the cab. Did anyone else recognize the cab driver is an actor from Heroes.

In the storyline where they just end up back in 2007 on the Island there is only one thing that really bothers me. When they were all transported to 2007, why did the Dharma van go with them? They ended up back at the Swan and obviously the Swan had been completed and destroyed by Desmond in the timeline we all know about. If just the people had been sent back to the future I would be fine, why did 1 Dharma van get transported too. I'm not sure if I'm explaining this too good. If an inanimate object like the van went to the future, why didn't other objects go too. It was just too convenient that the van was there to pull the beam off the pile of rubble so Sawyer could get to Juliet. I'm sure I'll have a lot more to write once the episode sinks in a little but that's it for now. The only other thing I have to mention is a prediction. I think at the end when Syaid comes back to life it is really Jacob. That's why Jacob told Hurley to bring Syaid to the temple. I think Jacob for saw his Nemesis masquerading as Locke so he set it up for himself to be reincarnated as Syaid. Just a guess.

  • 10 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Feb 2, 2010 11:57 PM EST
BlackRock Steve

Hi Herb, Great to all be here again!!!

If the Island is blown up in 1977 the guy in the institution never would have heard the numbers.

Understand your complaint but don't agree with your assumption....The island wasn't blown up in '77....the bomb stopeed the Swan from bing built, but don't assume that the island blew up and sunk then! Something else COULD HAVE OCCURRED since '77 that caused the island to then 'sink' as poorly shown that it was in 2007!! We DON'T know WHEN the island sunk or what caused it to sink!

They ended up back at the Swan and obviously the Swan had been completed and destroyed by Desmond in the timeline we all know about.

Incorrect...since they detonated the bomb, the Swan was never built and what we saw was the wreckage left at the end of the '77 scene last May when Juliet detonated the bomb.

  • 4 votes
#1.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:52 AM EST
Herbcules74

They ended up back at the Swan and obviously the Swan had been completed and destroyed by Desmond in the timeline we all know about.

Incorrect...since they detonated the bomb, the Swan was never built and what we saw was the wreckage left at the end of the '77 scene last May when Juliet detonated the bomb.

Actually it is the wreckage of the swan because if you look closely when Sawyer is digging throught the wreckage one of the things he moves is the exercise bike. Also Kate realizes where they are because she finds the doorway in the vines. That's how she knows where she was.

  • 7 votes
#1.2 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 1:02 AM EST
BlackRock Steve

OK, yes, good catch on the bike, but the rest still looked more like just all the construction stuff...but, since as Hurley said on the jet, "I'm the luckiest guy..." we're being asked to believe that he is just a lucky lottery winner who used his winnings to own Mr. Cluck, and open a new one in Aussie land...I can buy that.

  • 5 votes
#1.3 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 1:24 AM EST
CrimsonKing

Kate clearly said the hatch was in the condition it was in after they blew up the Swan, not the build site condition.

I have no trouble believing that Hurley was there because of a Mr Cluck opening, and that the numbers helped him win the lottery. I am more confused by Desmond being on the plane, but I am sure both with be naswered for us in the future.

The bomb detonated in both realities - just with different results. In one, they fly on to LA, but all seem to have this nagging feeling that something isn't right. The island took catastrophic damage from the explosion, and sank to the sea - or perhaps it sank because the anomaly was destroyed.

In the other, the bomb still detonated, but I am thinking the energy interacted with the anomaly at the Swan site, and instead of vaporizing them, launched them into the future - perhaps the van made it because our characters were in physical contact with it, perhaps because of its proximity to the blast.

Rather than flaws or loopholes - with LOST it seems like everything needs to be examined for future ramifications and events.

  • 3 votes
#1.4 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 7:23 AM EST
jawill11

I think Jacob for saw his Nemesis masquerading as Locke so he set it up for himself to be reincarnated as Syaid

That is a good guess. They certainly filmed Sayid's death and reincarnation with Christian imagry and a resurrection theme. When they carried his body out of the water, he was laying in their arms like Jesus on the Cross. Actually he was laying like Cool Hand Luke after he ate all those eggs, which was supposed to be like Jesus on the cross.

That explains why Jacob told Hurley to take Sayid to the temple and why the note said it was so important for Sayid to be saved. The interesting part about the note is that Jacob gave Hurley the guitar case before they came back to the island, so he knew he would be killed by Nemesis and that Sayid would be shot before any of those events even started to take place. If he knew he was to be killed, he let it happen in order to come back in Sayid's body to lay a trap for Nemesis. That explains why Ben asked why he didn't fight back when he stabbed him.

  • 7 votes
#1.5 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:13 AM EST
keith.corrigan

Good catch on the timing thing by Jacob, jawill11! I totally missed that. It does look Jacob has planned this out from the beginning!

  • 3 votes
#1.6 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 11:26 AM EST
Superman2001

The one major flaw that I find with this story line is, Why is Hurley on the plane? Everyone else had a reason to be there, I can even see Desmond being there since he never ended up on the Island, but Hurley originally went to Australia to track down the partner of the guy from the mental institution. The one from who he first heard the numbers. If the Island is blown up in 1977 the guy in the institution never would have heard the numbers. Therefore Hurley never would have used those numbers to win the lottery. If he never won the lottery there would have been no reason for him to go to Australia. For me this story line doesn't work.

The numbers had already been stamped on the Swan station. We saw that happen in the finale last season. In fact, the numbers were presumably determined before the Dharma Initiative even came to the Island as a part of the Valenzetti Equation.

But Leonard, the guy that Hurley got the numbers from in Santa Rosa, was stationed in the South Pacific in 1988, where he heard the numbers over a radio transmission. Presumably, the transmission was coming from the Island, but we're not 100% sure about that yet.

Another thing to consider is that maybe the lottery numbers Hurley played were different. In fact, if nothing bad ever happens to him, maybe he was never in Santa Rosa in this time line. A lot of variables to consider.

  • 2 votes
#1.7 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 2:10 PM EST
reneeslost

What is the purpose of the firework flare?

To cue all us viewers in to the fact that both groups are now in the same time period.

  • 3 votes
#1.8 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 2:28 PM EST
Steve Watts

To cue all us viewers in to the fact that both groups are now in the same time period.

Agreed. I figure the story reasoning is sound, to warn Ricardus that Nemesis has "won," but it works on that meta level too. It was a very clever move from the writers to give the audience a visual cue.

  • 4 votes
#1.9 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 2:34 PM EST
scrambledeggs

great catch reneeslost - i didn't get that cue last night

  • 1 vote
#1.10 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 6:01 PM EST
Reply
Steve Watts

Ah, back to the grind, and with an extra-long episode this week to boot. A few notes before I get into my personal takes on tonight's episode.

NEWS AND NOTES:

  • You probably noticed I'm referring to the dark-haired man as "Nemesis." They called him that on the recap, and it seemed as easy as anything else I could call him.
  • Speaking of names, it was super-frustrating having to refer to the Temple characters, "leader" and "translator." If anyone somehow knows their names, feel free to tell me.
  • If you want to contribute original articles, go for it, and you'll be put in the pot for this year's contest. Otherwise, keep your eyes open for when I update the trivia question tomorrow.

Now, this episode really started up the season and gave us a lot to chew on. I think it's funny that most of us were wondering all summer if the plan worked and time was reset, or if it didn't and they were still on the Island. In classic Lost fashion, the answer is of course "both." The rule of Lost is the opposite of Occam's Razor: whatever makes the least sense, however implausible, is probably the correct answer.

CHEERS:

  • Hey, Lost is back!
  • I liked the cameos from the older cast members. Some of the wink-wink nods were a little too on the nose, but I enjoyed them regardless

JEERS:

  • That underwater CG at the beginning was just dreadful. I've seen GameCube games with better graphics.
  • You killed Juliet? Damn you, V. Damn you. (I'll still watch you when you come back)

BIG QUESTIONS:

Why are the Losties both on the Island and off of it? What did Juliet mean by "it worked"?

For now, I'm going with alternate reality. Why not? They already did time travel.

I do think this is one of the bigger questions they're introducing this season, and how they resolve the two disparate timelines is going to be interesting. Right now, though, I just don't have enough information to really speculate.

What does Nemesis need to talk to Richard about?

How he keeps his youthful glow.

What happened to Desmond on the plane?

I'm inclined to think this isn't really a mystery; maybe they only had the actor for a day and needed a script reason for him to be gone. But, you know, the script pointed it out specifically so it's worth asking.

Where is Christian's coffin?

I'm going to bet it got transported to the Island in some kind of time flux... thing.

Who are the people in the Temple?

The Others. Not really a mystery, but again worth asking. These seem to be the true Others, otherwise known as the Natives.

What is the significance of the Temple's water not being clear?

At first I thought it had something to do with Jacob's death, but they were surprised by it later so maybe not.

What was the purpose of the firework flare?

If these are the Natives, they know Richard and his people are still out there beyond the scope of the Temple. They were probably trying to warn him that Nemesis was on the loose without Jacob to keep in in check.

Where is the Nemesis' home that he wants to go to?

The Temple. That's my bet so far at least.

What chains was Nemesis referring to?

No idea.

Why is Nemesis disappointed in the people on the beach?

Again, no idea. I know he does like to think of humans as ultimately destructive, so the fact that they were working together might upset him? Just a shot in the dark there.

Where is Nemesis taking Richard?

The Temple. (Again).

What did the Temple leader want to talk to Jack about?

I think he recognizes that Jack is the de facto leader of that group. He probably wanted to talk to him about the implications of Jacob's death.

How did Sayid come to life again?

Apparently the water worked. But the theory goes a bit beyond that. My wife proposed that Jacob has come back in the form of Sayid. That would wreck my Locke-versus-Locke scenario I've been hoping for, but the cliffhanger last season and now Sayid coming back does carry a definite messianic story vibe. Plus, Jacob had the foresight to give Hurley an object that specifically talked about Sayid's death. He obviously wanted his people at the Temple to do everything they could to save Sayid, possibly so he could revive himself through him.

  • 10 votes
#2 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:00 AM EST
jawill11

That would wreck my Locke-versus-Locke scenario

That would have been interesting, but based on the crappiness of their CGI, it probably would have been too expensive for them to do split screens with both Locke's together.

  • 3 votes
#2.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:16 AM EST
JatsuSama

Why are the Losties both on the Island and off of it? What did Juliet mean by "it worked"?

I do think this is one of the bigger questions they're introducing this season, and how they resolve the two disparate timelines is going to be interesting. Right now, though, I just don't have enough information to really speculate.

For now, I'm going with alternate reality. Why not? They already did time travel.

Jughead worked, so 815 continued to LAX. However, the original timeline still exists to prevent the grandfather paradox. Juliet knows it worked because her consciousness travelled to the other dimension (thus the going dutch for coffee), much like Charlotte's mind travelled to her childhood right before she died.

Where is Christian's coffin?

I'm going to bet it got transported to the Island in some kind of time flux... thing.

Perhaps it was never on the island? Empty coffin could have been someone else's, Christian could be manifested from Jack's memories instead of from Christian's body.

What is the significance of the Temple's water not being clear?

At first I thought it had something to do with Jacob's death, but they were surprised by it later so maybe not.

It has to be because of Jacob's death. They were surprised by the water not being clear, too. Besides, It's not like they've killed Jacob before to know that Jacob dying causes the water to lose its purity.

What chains was Nemesis referring to?

No idea.

Slave chains. Richard was a slave on the Black Rock.

Plus, Jacob had the foresight to give Hurley an object that specifically talked about Sayid's death.

Not necessarily. Jacob likes to make lists of names, remember. That's why the Japanese guy asked for everyone's name, to make sure they were on the list. People on Jacob's lists are important, and Sayid's name was on the list. Thus, they had to save him.

  • 4 votes
#2.2 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:46 AM EST
Steve Watts

Another thought occurred to me last night. It does seem like the Losties in the alternate reality have some form of recognition. We saw it hinted at several times, with the tense looks on Jack's face, asking if he knows Desmond, et cetera. The others didn't give signs that were as overt, but they kept running into each other in coincidental ways. It's probably safe to conclude that even if they can't put their feeling on it, the Losties are feeling a form of deja vu due to the alternate reality.

So that made me wonder: does it work in reverse? In other words, will we be seeing the Losties still on the Island getting similar familiar feelings of "knowledge" about the other reality? Just a thought, it could put an interesting wrinkle on all this.

  • 5 votes
#2.3 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 11:56 AM EST
Suzy Q 184

Steve, I think I disagree with your thought that the firework/flare was to warn Richard, mainly because he didn't seem to know what it meant any more than anyone else there did. Richard sure didn't seem to take much precaution immediately after that, even with Faux-Locke walking right towards him.

Also, if the Lost universe is the opposite of Occam's Razor, should we call it Occam's Stubble? :)

  • 2 votes
#2.4 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:05 PM EST
LostinToronto

Hi, thought I'd take a stab at answering some of the questions as I saw it.

What happened to Desmond on the plane?

Well I think as was said many times, Desmond is the "variable" so I think he is bouncing between the island as it was and the new other reality. If that's not the case, I still think it's because he's the variable and that's why he is still in contact with Jack.

What is the significance of the Temple's water not being clear?

Well we saw that the leader of the temple cut his hand and put it in the water and it didn't heal so obviously with Jacob's death the healing power has gone. What I wonder is if it runs clear again because Jacob is back in Sayid's body or not.

What chains was Nemesis referring to?

I immediately thought that Richard was indeed as others had said, a slave on the Black Rock and I think that Jacob set him free and made him his second in command or whatever and that's why he didn't age.

Why is Nemesis disappointed in the people on the beach

Here's where my mind jumped to. My first thought was that the others on the beach were on the Black Rock ship and Nemesis set them helped them get used to the island. Now, I may or may not be remembering right here but the black smoke never attacked these others did it? So maybe they were supposed to be his people but somehow they ended up following Richard and becoming Jacob's people.

What I found interesting and I may be totally off base here is when Richard took sweet young Ben Linus into the temple to be healed, persumably the water was clear right, Ben came back evil. Now the water is murky (actually it looked a bit coppery - blood?) and Sayid is put in the water, the thought is he has come back as good guy (?) Jacob.

And to add to that thought, not everything is black and white, good and bad right? Everyone has good and bad traits that live side by side in each of us - well isn't it kind of funny that John Locke who is a good guy ends up being taken over by (maybe) bad guy Nemesis and Sayid who is unquestionably bad a lot is (maybe) taken over by (maybe) good guy Jacob. Like if Jacob was going to inhabit a good guy form why didn't he take Juliett?

Does this make any sense or am I smoking crack here? :-)

  • 2 votes
#2.5 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:19 PM EST
MegnMacLean

Did anyone else think that the spring in the temple could possibly be some kind of fountain of youth? Richard told un-Locke (before he know he wasn't Locke) that he didn't age because of Jacob. When Jacob dies, the water turns murky and doesn't heal anymore...

    #2.6 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:37 PM EST
    T Bourlon

    About the water - yes, it makes sense that it turned "murky" after Jacob died, BUT it still brought Sayid back, didn't it? My guess is that Sayid wasn't completely gone, and the water took some time to heal him because his wound was extensive AND because it's now "murky." Didn't Sayid lament about all the people he'd tortured & killed when he thought he was dying? Maybe his remorse is what gave him a second chance, yeah that's getting Biblical but that's "Lost," isn't it? Btw, I tend to call Nemesis "Esau," but last night he was "Big bad John," LOL!

    • 1 vote
    #2.7 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 1:01 PM EST
    Pfemm

    We saw it hinted at several times, with the tense looks on Jack's face, asking if he knows Desmond

    But Jack does know Desmond. They met when they went running at that stadium. It was the same "brother" comment that spurred his recognition the first time around too.

    Also, To the "Why are there two timelines..." It seems right that they wouldn't just cease to exist. if original losties didn't exist then they couldn't have gone back to blow up the swan which allowed the non-losties to fly safely home.

    I think that if/as they progress through the non-losties timeline that all the people start making more connections with each other...

    Fate has a way of course-correcting, right.

    So if the losties were always meant to be on the island and be together that something will inextricably draw them all together just as the island once did.

    • 2 votes
    #2.8 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 1:46 PM EST
    Steve Watts

    But Jack does know Desmond. They met when they went running at that stadium. It was the same "brother" comment that spurred his recognition the first time around too.

    Good point, that totally slipped my mind.

    But wait... does he? Remember that Desmond was running because he was training for Widmore's sailing race. If the bomb detonated, it would have killed everyone on the Island, including Charles Widmore. If I recall correctly, Widmore wasn't banished from the Island until much later in life, once Ben was an adult.

    No Widmore, no race. More so, no Widmore, no Penny, thus removing Desmond's reason to even want to be in a race.

    • 3 votes
    #2.9 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 2:10 PM EST
    NCL70506

    Suzy Q, you bring up an interesting point about the flare. Richard did seem alarmed to see it, but he did not really react physically to it. When Faux-Locke walked outside, Richard told the people on the beach not to shoot. Next, Faux-Locke said it's good to see you out of those chains. Richard looks surprised and says, "You? Faux-Locke responds, "Me." It seems like Richard did not know that was the actual Nemesis until these words were spoken. So, I am thinking that maybe the flare is a warning that the Temple is fortifying its borders, but Richard did not immediately know why they where doing that, until he spoke with Nemesis. Just a thought.

    • 3 votes
    #2.10 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 3:45 PM EST
    Steve Watts

    I like that thought, NCL, that maybe it was a "we're fortifying" or "get back here ASAP" signal instead of related specifically to Nemesis. He did tell people not to shoot, but he knew that wasn't the real Locke for obvious reasons. If he even suspected it might be Nemesis, he would probably know that bullets just piss it off. (As we saw with Bram).

    • 2 votes
    #2.11 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 3:47 PM EST
    Pfemm

    I mentioned this below as well but i'll say it again :)

    I'm not convinced that the island sunk/blew up because of the bomb.

    The bomb is set off to negate the pocket of magic/magnetic energy ... who's to say that resulted in an explosion that sunk the island. It seems like it's just as likely to result in nothing happening to the island. No, bomb explosion, no energy release.

    (Also, i can't remember if Daniel was successful in getting them to evacuate the island before they blew it up. if he was maybe that's how Widmore could survive?)

    • 1 vote
    #2.12 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 4:04 PM EST
    AmazingSDJ

    What chains was Nemesis referring to?

    I think Richard was one of the slaves from the Black Rock.

    • 1 vote
    #2.13 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 5:44 PM EST
    Aruzia

    I think that Juliet might have "seen the future" kind of like Desmond did when he blew up the hatch. So she knows that what she did makes it so in the future they will be able to reset the time line and land at LAX.

      #2.14 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 9:51 PM EST
      Twinkle391

      The writers are fans of Steven King and the Dark Tower series. So, knowing this, and recalling a character, Jake, from the Dark Tower series... Roland let Jake fall to his death in book 1, The Gunslinger. In book 3, Jake shows up again as alive, but for some reason, he knows he supposed to be dead. There is a huge paradox revolving around this, including Roland and Jake becoming seriously ill, both knowing something is wrong. I can't remember what Roland was having problems with, but Jake knew he was supposed to be dead. When the paradox is resolved, Jake, is "pulled" through a door to Roland's world. If you haven't read the series, you don't know what you're missing!

      Charlie told Jack that he was supposed to be dead.

      Just an observation!

      • 1 vote
      #2.15 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 12:32 PM EST
      Herbcules74

      Right on Twinkle! I am a HUGE Stephen King fan and the Dark Tower Series is my all time favorite. I reread the entire series every couple of years. Jake and Roland weren't just getting ill, they were going insane. Jake because he was supposed to be dead and Roland because he had two seperate memories of the way station. In one he was dying of thirst and Jake found him and gave him water. He also remembered it as being so thirsty he could "smell" the water there and found it himself. The paradox came from finding the "speaking demaon" in the basement of the way station. In the memory where he didn't meet Jake he never went into the basement. In the memory where he met Jake he went into the basement and took the demon's jawbone. Having both of these memories be "true" in his mind was killing him.

      • 1 vote
      #2.16 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 1:02 PM EST
      Pfemm

      The bomb is set off to negate the pocket of magic/magnetic energy ... who's to say that resulted in an explosion that sunk the island. It seems like it's just as likely to result in nothing happening to the island. No, bomb explosion, no energy release.

      I've changed my mind... I was just forced to recall that the characters' hearing was messed up right after the bomb went off. so nix on no explosion.

      BUT!

      I just heard a NEW THEORY!

      { courtesy of my husband and his friend :) }

      So this goes back to that scene with Juliet dieing she makes the comment about them getting coffee.

      What if when the losties die their consciousness transfers over to the changed/sideways reality...

      What if since she was dieing the connection was there and she could see what her other self was doing just at that moment. and that is how she knew it worked and would be okay.

      SO! that means by the end ALL of them need to die in order for the transfer to be complete.

      • 4 votes
      #2.17 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 2:08 PM EST
      FortifiedHooligan

      But Jack does know Desmond. They met when they went running at that stadium. It was the same "brother" comment that spurred his recognition the first time around too.

      Good point, that totally slipped my mind.

      But wait... does he? Remember that Desmond was running because he was training for Widmore's sailing race. If the bomb detonated, it would have killed everyone on the Island, including Charles Widmore. If I recall correctly, Widmore wasn't banished from the Island until much later in life, once Ben was an adult.

      No Widmore, no race. More so, no Widmore, no Penny, thus removing Desmond's reason to even want to be in a race.

      I don't have access to seeing this right away (I'm at work, shhhh =D) but did he say "brothah" on the plane? That was the word/phrase that made Jack think back to the stairs. It was strange how he just was gone, and they made it a point to point that out to the audience.

      The thing that is really not adding up on this particular episode is the wound on Jack's neck. He obviously didn't know it was there, or that was the impression I was given when he was investigating it.

      Another question that has been bugging me all series is what Claire and Christian have to do with everything. Are they both dead and just visions to people? Are they working with Jacob or the MIB or are they manifestations of one of them?

        #2.18 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 2:08 PM EST
        say what??

        The thing that is really not adding up on this particular episode is the wound on Jack's neck. He obviously didn't know it was there, or that was the impression I was given when he was investigating it.

        This reminded me of season 4 finale Daniel is on the beach between shuttling people to the freighter and twitches his neck and Miles asks him if there's something wrong with his neck. Many time jumps later when they are in 1977 and have the shootout with Radzinsky's men at the carpool a gunshot grazes Dan's neck in the same spot he had the twitch. This struck me as an across-the-timelines connection and I think the same is true with Jack's mysterious wound.

        • 1 vote
        #2.19 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 2:37 PM EST
        Pfemm

        Yes, Desmond does say "brothah" to Jack when he sits down... that's when jack has a funny deja vu/do I know you look on his face and I think after that is when he asks Desmond if they know each other...

        i'd also be interested to know of island jack had the same wound on his neck... hmmmm

        Man I love this show!!!!!

          #2.20 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 3:05 PM EST
          mega-246168

          Some questions still bugging me:

          I was waiting for someone to try and explain the wound on Jack's neck - anybody got anything else on that?

          I don't understand why the VW van went with them either. Can anyone confirm if they were in the van or out of the van when the bomb (supposedly) went off, or when they came to after? If it was just there to provide power to remove the beam, why not just not have the heavy beam blocking the way in the first place?

          The scene with Charlie choking on the bag of heroin did not feel right to me - he would not be unconscious for several minutes (or more) from suffocation and then awaken and start cracking jokes the instant the obstruction was removed. Was this just a device to show that Kate stole Jack's pen? Also, strange that Charlie obviously was not trying to kill himself although he was dissapointed that he was not dead (maybe he was trying to swallow the baggie then realized he was choking and said t0 himself that he wouldn't mind dying?).

          In the last scene, why did the Other ask "Are you Shepherd?" when they had all identified themselves with full names to the Others earlier?

          Also, has Nemesis/Smoke Monster taken the form of a living person or can he only copy dead people that he has physically come in contact with (Alyx, Jack's dad, Locke)? Wheras I think Jacob can actually bring dead people back to life and doesn't need a body to inhabit.

            #2.21 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 3:54 PM EST
            mega-246168

            Also, why were some people (like Kate) so far away from the blast area and some people were in the same spot. And I didn't see the point of the temprary hearing loss (for some), either. (More minutae I realize)

              #2.22 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 4:20 PM EST
              Rebecca D

              I haven't read through all the comments, so this may be somewhere down further...

              But with all the cameos from past characters, where were Michael and Walt??? Again, in the first few seasons Walt was SOO important... then wouldn't he also be important in the reset? I don't understand how he's just vanished from the show....

                #2.23 - Fri Feb 5, 2010 12:27 AM EST
                Pfemm

                where were Michael and Walt??? Again, in the first few seasons Walt was SOO important... then wouldn't he also be important in the reset? I don't understand how he's just vanished from the show....

                Yeah on the whole walt thing.... they completely lost focus on that point... but i think it's because the kid grew up way too fast for the show.

                If they bring him back now it would have to be a completely different actor to play the part of Walt in 2004 and that would just be weird.

                Also, why were some people (like Kate) so far away from the blast area and some people were in the same spot. And I didn't see the point of the temprary hearing loss (for some), either.

                I think that they may have wanted to show that there had actually been an explosion before they went back to the right time. and also because it was a pretty awesome way to start off the show.

                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                I have a question about the Locke Monster (lol)

                a friend told me that the on the Jimmy Kimmel show the writers said that locke was the Smoke Monster but that the Smoke Monster Wasn't Nemesis.

                Is this True?

                if so, then where is the MIB?

                And why did the smoke monster want to kill Jacob?

                See that doesn't make sense... he must have heard wrong. since they gave the verbal cues to make the connection... The whole "You found a loophole" business...

                  #2.24 - Fri Feb 5, 2010 10:00 AM EST
                  Pfemm

                  Nope... my friend was right..

                  -----------------------------------------------

                  Jimmy: Is John Locke possessed by the Man in Black?

                  Writers: Uh... No....

                  Jimmy: He's not?

                  Writers: No... well. No.

                  Writers: Well... You actually saw a big bit of information about John Locke. I mean, he actually revealed that he was the Smoke Monster on the show.

                  -------------------------------------------------

                  Well.... then... where/who IS the Man in Black?

                    #2.25 - Fri Feb 5, 2010 10:46 AM EST
                    JatsuSama

                    He's not possessed by MiB. Locke's body is on the beach. Smokey/MiB assumed Locke's form, he didn't possess his body.

                      #2.26 - Fri Feb 5, 2010 10:50 AM EST
                      Pfemm

                      So if they are just being picky about the wording... that's kind of confusing..

                      Becasuse their statements suggest that the MIB and the Smoke Monster are in fact separate entities.

                      This show is so awesome.

                        #2.27 - Fri Feb 5, 2010 11:07 AM EST
                        Superman2001

                        Another red herring...

                          #2.28 - Fri Feb 5, 2010 3:29 PM EST
                          TexanForObama

                          I have to agree that the first thing I thought of as the reason the water not being clear and the "Temple Others" surprise at that was because of Jacob's death - it had not occurred before, so it was a surprise to them? :-)

                          • 1 vote
                          #2.29 - Sat Feb 6, 2010 12:38 PM EST
                          Debra Murphy

                          Hey, Steve, thanks for the recap! It's great to be chatting with everyone after so many months!

                          For sure, the "chains" reference has to be that Richard was in chains on the Black Rock...the big question, who was MIB then? Or rather, how does Richard know he's MIB, and in what "shape" has he seen him before? I desperately hoping for major backstory on the Black Rock, as I still think they're critical to the formation of the Others.

                          And even if Sayid is "possessed" by jacob--jury out on that one--I absolutely think you're going to get Locke vs Locke. Re-reading my pre-INCIDENT prognostications, I've been looking for that one, and I think we'll get it in the shape of a crossing of the two "universes".

                          Absolutely Jacob saw everything coming, and was busy planning his counter-strategy against MIB...which included allowing himself to be killed. The Christ/Satan allusions here are thick, with poor be-snookered Ben standing in the place of Judas. I suspect Ben's reaction, once he gets his head together, is to be so pissed off at how he was used that he will throw himself wholly into the cause of defeating MIB, and in this will come his ultimate redemption. I think he still wants to be one of the "good guys" in his heart of hears.

                          • 1 vote
                          #2.30 - Mon Feb 8, 2010 12:10 PM EST
                          Reply
                          Syntactic Tree

                          You killed Juliet? Damn you, V. Damn you. (I'll still watch you when you come back)

                          This. I had to hold my wife back from striking the TV.

                          Excellent episode, with the exception of the computer generated view of the island underwater. All the technology in today's society has, and that's what they come up with?! Unimpressed.

                          Apparently the water worked. But the theory goes a bit beyond that. My wife proposed that Jacob has come back in the form of Sayid.

                          My wife and I thought perhaps the "Nemesis" did: infiltrating?; striking from within? Of course, that's problematic given that they surrounded themselves with the ash, so who knows?! =/ (I don't like having to call him "Nemesis," either.)

                          Did anyone else feel sorry for Locke? What an incredible actor... his expressions on the plane made me pity him even more, knowing he's back to where he once was before he gained his confidence - and regained the ability to walk - on the island. What's more... the true John Locke seems to be dead. As in, really dead. But with this island (/show), one never knows for certain.

                          • 5 votes
                          Reply#3 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:14 AM EST
                          blackwidow1

                          I totally agree with you about Locke. This is the first time in a long long time that I've actually liked Locke.

                          • 1 vote
                          #3.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 1:15 AM EST
                          Shaun Guidolin

                          I didn't get why they made her alive and then killed her .. but my guess is that it made the Sayid "resurrection" more substantial.

                            #3.2 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:45 AM EST
                            Aegis500

                            You killed Juliet? Damn you, V. Damn you. (I'll still watch you when you come back)

                            As far as we knew, Juliet was dead at the end of last season.

                            The only reason to bring her back that I can fathom ... was to allow
                            Sawyer to say goodbye.

                            Also, Juliet should still be around in the plane-related time parallel.

                            Did anyone else feel sorry for Locke? What an incredible actor... his expressions on the plane made me pity him even more, knowing he's back to where he once was before he gained his confidence - and regained the ability to walk - on the island.

                            I think that Locke was a better character before he got to the island. On the island, Locke turned arrogant, ... and not as concerned with the welfare of his fellow castaways.

                            From his scene on the plane, it certainly looks like the Australian walkabout ... helped him to get over his depression over being in a wheelchair. And Jack offered him hope ... for some recovery.

                            • 1 vote
                            #3.3 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:13 PM EST
                            Superman2001

                            He didn't really go on the Walkabout.

                            • 1 vote
                            #3.4 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 2:49 PM EST
                            ctina1973

                            Yeah, I think he was lying to Boone about the walkabout. Since he was in the plane seat and not in his wheelchair, he could present himself as a "whole" individual who did awesome things instead of a guy that just had his dream taken from him because he was stuck in a wheelchair.

                            • 1 vote
                            #3.5 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 2:51 AM EST
                            FortifiedHooligan

                            I think that Locke was a better character before he got to the island. On the island, Locke turned arrogant, ... and not as concerned with the welfare of his fellow castaways.

                            From his scene on the plane, it certainly looks like the Australian walkabout ... helped him to get over his depression over being in a wheelchair. And Jack offered him hope ... for some recovery.

                            I wouldn't say Locke got arrogant necessarily, I mean what would you do if all the sudden you could walk again? He was probably pretty confident in the island or fate working things out since he could now walk again. Locke off the island was depressed and obsessed with his father and the harm his father caused him. How is that better?

                            • 1 vote
                            #3.6 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 2:13 PM EST
                            Superman2001

                            Yeah, I wouldn't say arrogant, either. He had something to believe in, and was convinced.

                            • 1 vote
                            #3.7 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 2:28 PM EST
                            muggies

                            speaking of boone and john, i know boone said that his sister did want to be resiced/saved... but where was she?? was she not on the plane, what would the bomb "working" have to do with shanon NOT being on the plane??

                              #3.8 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 3:30 PM EST
                              FortifiedHooligan

                              Something just hit me, what could the significance of Locke losing his knives have? You think there is anything to that or just that they used something we know he had with him on the island?

                              I really want to know what happened to Claire when she disappeared.

                                #3.9 - Fri Feb 5, 2010 11:55 AM EST
                                TexanForObama

                                I completely agree about Locke! I thought the same thing! He was a good guy (albeit a pitiful one) in 'real life' and just had one crumby thing after another happen to him - the girlfriend, the father, paralysis, etc. etc. etc. He found strength and a purpose on the island and was happy to live his life out there. He is a fabulous actor and not many can express so much with just facial expressions and the viewer knows exactly what he's trying to convey to us.

                                • 1 vote
                                #3.10 - Sat Feb 6, 2010 12:41 PM EST
                                Merlin-834235

                                ~ Syntactic ~

                                Please pardon my truncating your 'handle', but I guess I'm going to be doing that until my "Dragon naturally Speaking" Speech to Text software arrives... Just like I'm going to be calling 'The Bad Guy' (Do we know for sure?) "MIB" 'cause "Nemisis" is too many letters to type for a guy with carpal tunnel syndrome (No feeling in left hand) to type... because of the CTS, I can only type with one hand. So, I'm with you (and the other person who mentioned it) I'm just going to call him "MIB". When Michael Emerson was narrating the recap hour, he called him "nemisis", but with his next breath he also called him "The Man in Black"... So "MIB" it is for me... I'm sure everyone will know who I'm referring to... with all the names we have given the character throughout the series, "MIB" is the easiest to spell and the easiest for a one-handed typist to type and I'm too old to change now...

                                -=M=-
                                ‹(•¿•)›

                                • 1 vote
                                #3.11 - Sun Feb 7, 2010 1:48 AM EST
                                Reply
                                Inchiki

                                First of all, thanks Steve for all the work you've put in.

                                As for your questions, here goes -

                                • Why are the Losties both on the Island and off of it? They are co-existing in multiple timelines/dimensions the but their main selves are still in the struggle on the Island
                                • What did Juliet mean by "it worked"? Juliet somehow senses the different timelines.
                                • What does Nemesis need to talk to Richard about? To help Nemesis finish the game and with the end of the game, Nemesis goes home.
                                • What happened to Desmond on the plane? The Island? Same place as Christian’s coffin and Locke’s knives.
                                • Where is Christian's coffin? See above.
                                • Who are the people in the Temple? The Others. Ben sent them to save them from the Freighter’s mercenaries.
                                • What is the significance of the Temple's water not being clear? Water heals better when clear?; murky water means greater chance of failure.
                                • What was the purpose of the firework flare? A warning to Richard and the Others that Nemesis is about.
                                • Where is the Nemesis' home that he wants to go to? Not of this Eearth.
                                • What chains was Nemesis referring to? The rules of the game that kept him all the centuries/millennia(?)
                                • Why is Nemesis disappointed in the people on the beach? Great question that I don’t have a notion, yet.
                                • Where is Nemesis taking Richard? To the Temple to finish the game.
                                • What did the Temple leader want to talk to Jack about? Whatever it was maybe moot now that Sayid did revive.
                                • How did Sayid come to life again? Is it Sayid or Jacob?
                                • 3 votes
                                Reply#4 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:17 AM EST
                                Aqualeo

                                I'm new to the vine after a friend got me into the show before season 5....watched everything before that in almost one sitting to catch up...so here goes...

                                Cheers:

                                • loved seeing the past cast members. they seems a little goofy but i do think we will see more of both charlie and claire...
                                • The new Locke is awesome...I'm not sure if he is really the bad guy..

                                Jeers:

                                • The CGI at the begging was really bad....
                                • I never liked Juliette but why bring her back just to kill her.....
                                • The Temple seemed to be a weird way to introduce new characters....

                                The ?'s.....

                                Why are the Losties both on the Island and off of it?
                                Two realities that will come together somehow

                                What did Juliet mean by "it worked"?
                                No idea...What does she know???

                                What does Nemesis need to talk to Richard about?
                                He still needs him to defeat Jacob....

                                What happened to Desmond on the plane?
                                More importantly...why was he there and not pushing the button?

                                Where is Christian's coffin?
                                The Island

                                Who are the people in the Temple?
                                Jacobs people....the true others....who knows if they are bad or good...

                                What is the significance of the Temple's water not being clear?
                                Since Jacob is dead...its healing power is done...Sayid is not really Sayid???

                                What was the purpose of the firework flare?
                                There is another group on the island that they were warning...

                                Where is the Nemesis' home that he wants to go to?

                                No clue
                                What chains was Nemesis referring to?
                                Either that Richard is no longer on the Black Rock or that he is not in the service of Jacob any more...

                                Why is Nemesis disappointed in the people on the beach?
                                They are following the wrong person...Jacob....who might still be really evil...

                                Where is Nemesis taking Richard?
                                to find jacob....

                                What did the Temple leader want to talk to Jack about?
                                The temple leader knows about the other reality....and knows that the other Jack knows everything...

                                How did Sayid come to life again?
                                he is jacob...

                                • 2 votes
                                Reply#5 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:21 AM EST
                                Steve Watts

                                What happened to Desmond on the plane?
                                More importantly...why was he there and not pushing the button?

                                Well, in this alternate timeline the bomb went off, the energy was dispersed, and the Swan was never built. That's why Flight 815 never went down, because Desmond was never there to screw up and miss pushing the button. Why did he happen to be on the plane, though? That is one hell of a coincidence, that fate would dictate if he didn't bring down the plane he would be a passenger.

                                • 9 votes
                                #5.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:37 AM EST
                                blackwidow1

                                Welcome Aqualeo.

                                This is the most interesting and intelligent group of people I've ever found on the web. They make the show much more fun.

                                • 6 votes
                                #5.2 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:37 AM EST
                                Aqualeo

                                i now see how desmond would not be pushing the button...because it doesn't even exist....but i do not know why they put him on the plane unless they want him to be in LA for some reason...

                                • 1 vote
                                #5.3 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:41 AM EST
                                Shaun Guidolin

                                interesting point Steve .. never thought about that.

                                Another person that was missing was Boone's sister ...

                                • 1 vote
                                #5.4 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:47 AM EST
                                Redchilipepper

                                I think he is on the plane because if the swan station was never built, then his future was altered and he never crashed on the island while participating in that race, therefore he needed to get back to LA so he ended up on the same flight as everyone else.

                                • 1 vote
                                #5.5 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 11:05 AM EST
                                charlie-b

                                The way he appeared and vanished, I'm not too sure Desmond was on the plane at all. He only interacted with Jack and he was there then gone. I'm thinking there's some kind of connection (Juliette and the coffee) between the two timelines and Desmond was in L A Jacks mind.

                                  #5.6 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:25 PM EST
                                  FortifiedHooligan

                                  Yeah, the whole idea that Shannon was not on the plane really didn't make any sense, not that everything always makes sense on the show but there is usually an attempt to explain things and the whole refusal to come with Boone didn't pass the smell test. She didn't want to come back in the actual timeline we saw but Boone stayed on her about it until she did, or am I pulling a Roger Clemens and misremembering?

                                    #5.7 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 2:17 PM EST
                                    Superman2001

                                    Boone didn't stay on Shannon to come back with him. Boone got beat up by her boyfriend and went back to his hotel, where Shannon popped up the night before 815 took off. In this new timeline, Boone doesn't look like he got beat up, so maybe he didn't try to pay the boyfriend off.

                                      #5.8 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 2:32 PM EST
                                      TexanForObama

                                      Lots of differences with this 'alternate reality':

                                      • Boone was alone on the plane without his sister;
                                      • Hurley considered himself lucky, rather than the guy who thinks everything that bad happens is always his fault;
                                      • Desmond was on the plane;
                                      • Charlie would have OD'd in the bathroom;
                                      • Rose was comforting a nervous Jack, rather than the other way around;
                                      • Sawyer warned Hurley about spouting his lottery winnings to strangers because of conmen, when the 'real' Sawyer would have probably tried to scam him himself;

                                      That's about all I can come up with for now. :-)

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #5.9 - Sat Feb 6, 2010 12:50 PM EST
                                      Reply
                                      Herbcules74

                                      Q and A

                                      • Why are the Losties both on the Island and off of it?

                                      We are seeing the events played out in parallel universes or realities.

                                      • What did Juliet mean by "it worked"?

                                      Maybe as she is dying she sees into the other reality.

                                      • What does Nemesis need to talk to Richard about?

                                      I have no clue on this one. It does make me wonder just how long Richard has been on the Island.

                                      • What happened to Desmond on the plane?

                                      I think he just went back to his original seat. I don't think there is anything important about this.

                                      • Where is Christian's coffin?

                                      In the lost and found department at an airport in Ann Arbor, MI.

                                      • Who are the people in the Temple?

                                      They are the Other's If you remember way back in the episode when the Oceanic 6 got off the Island Ben tells Richard to have all of their people go to the temple.

                                      • What is the significance of the Temple's water not being clear?

                                      Someone is asleep at the switch at the Other's sewerage plant.

                                      • What was the purpose of the firework flare?

                                      To warn any of the other Other's that they are expecting an attack on the temple.

                                      • Where is the Nemesis' home that he wants to go to?

                                      The Temple

                                      • What chains was Nemesis referring to?

                                      I think that at one time Richard was a prisoner of the Nemesis. Jacob must have freed him.

                                      • Why is Nemesis disappointed in the people on the beach?

                                      They were littering.........I've got nothing.

                                      • Where is Nemesis taking Richard?

                                      The Temple

                                      • What did the Temple leader want to talk to Jack about?

                                      No idea

                                      • How did Sayid come to life again?

                                      I really believe that he is now Jacob.

                                      • 4 votes
                                      Reply#6 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:26 AM EST
                                      keith.corrigan

                                      Where is Christian's coffin?
                                      In the lost and found department at an airport in Ann Arbor, MI.

                                      Nice! I like it!

                                      • 2 votes
                                      #6.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 8:36 AM EST
                                      Shaun Guidolin
                                      • Why are the Losties both on the Island and off of it?
                                      • We are seeing the events played out in parallel universes or realities.

                                      Maybe the scripts for Fringe and Lost got mixed up.

                                      • What did Juliet mean by "it worked"?
                                      • Maybe as she is dying she sees into the other reality.

                                      She said it worked .. because it did work, the plane never crashed...

                                      • What chains was Nemesis referring to?
                                      • I think that at one time Richard was a prisoner of the Nemesis. Jacob must have freed him.

                                      At one point on Lost, Richard appeared rather scruffy looking, perhaps it was during this time that he wasn't in power on the island.

                                      Why is Nemesis disappointed in the people on the beach?

                                      I'm saying he was pissed at them for following the wrong person (aka Jacob and not him)

                                      • How did Sayid come to life again?
                                      • I really believe that he is now Jacob.

                                      I guessed this before Sayid popped back to life, and I agree

                                        #6.2 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:51 AM EST
                                        Shaun Guidolin

                                        One thing I forgot to point out too .. is let's not forget the "plane" scenes are in the past, while they island scenes are the present time, so for now they are not in 2 places at once.

                                        • 3 votes
                                        #6.3 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:53 AM EST
                                        Superman2001

                                        They were in two places at once, three years ago. They evidently still crashed on the Island, still sparred with the Others, still left the Island and came back, etc. So even though we're seeing them in 2007 now, they originally came to the Island in 2004. We're seeing the results of an obviously different timeline on the plane.

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #6.4 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 3:35 PM EST
                                        Reply
                                        blackwidow1

                                        Why are the Losties both on the Island and off of it?

                                        This is the question of the night now isn't it? I think that I really have no idea whatsoever. Alternate reality is the easy, most obvious answer but this is Lost so I'm hoping its not so easy and/or obvious. Maybe this is a partial reality or a fluxuating reality that isn't really set in time yet. Or maybe I'm just super confused.

                                        What did Juliet mean by "it worked"?

                                        At first, when Juliet said she had something important to tell Sawyer, and then again when Sawyer was begging Miles to find out what Juliet meant, I thought that she was going to say that she was pregnant. And when Miles said she said it worked, that's what she meant ... she was pregnant - we all know about the difficulty of women conceiving on the island. But then I thought, she was referring to the bomb resetting time.

                                        What does Nemesis need to talk to Richard about?

                                        Nemesis didn't really want to talk to Richard about anything. I think he probably just wanted to do what he did on the beach ... to take Richard hostage.

                                        What happened to Desmond on the plane?

                                        Either, we're in this fluxuating reality and Desmond just slipped back into where he should be in time. Or, we know that Desmond doesn't seem to follow the same rules as everyone else when it comes to remaining constant in time and he's vacillating between realities/timelines.

                                        Where is Christian's coffin?

                                        On the Island.

                                        Who are the people in the Temple?

                                        The original island inhabitants mixed with the people who have for years become stranded on the island.

                                        What is the significance of the Temple's water not being clear?

                                        When Jacob was killed or when Nemesis became the stronger power because of the death of Jacob, the spring water became polluted in some manner thus losing its healing power. When the leader of the temple dwellers cut his palm and put it in the water I expected (and I think that he expected) his palm to be healed, but it wasn't. He took a chance by attempting to heal Sayid in this water.

                                        What was the purpose of the firework flare?

                                        A signal flare for help. Telling Richard to return to the temple.

                                        Where is the Nemesis' home that he wants to go to?

                                        The Temple. Althought I had this distinct feeling that his "home" is off the island. Perhaps Jacob and Nemesis themselves were banished to the Island and he wants to go back to wherever it was that he was originally from. I keep thinking of Ben Affleck in "Dogma" and how he just wanted to go home to heaven ... and if he couldn't go back he wanted to be destroyed ... to not even exist. "Dogma" was based in part on Milton's "Paradise Lost" ... personally my favorite epic poem. It tells the story of the fall of mankind and begins with Lucifer's banishment and descent into hell. Perhaps the Island was Nemesis' "hell." And he wants to get back to "heaven" aka home.

                                        What chains was Nemesis referring to?

                                        The chains of being subservient to Jacob.

                                        Why is Nemesis disappointed in the people on the beach?

                                        For being followers.

                                        Where is Nemesis taking Richard?

                                        To the temple.

                                        What did the Temple leader want to talk to Jack about?

                                        How Sayid was killed?

                                        How did Sayid come to life again?

                                        I think this is how young Ben was also saved. Somehow Jacob's spirit is in the water of the spring in the Temple. Water equals birth in so many mythologies. Ben and Sayid were reborn through this water/Jacob's spirit. Although it kind of gives me a creepy Pet Semetary-feel about the entire concept of this bringing back to life.

                                        • 4 votes
                                        Reply#7 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:33 AM EST
                                        Syntactic Tree

                                        I thought that she was going to say that she was pregnant.

                                        My wife and I thought this all through the off-season... I can't remember our evidence, but I think it had something to do with the scene when the group met up with Rose and Bernard. Rose said something... or did something... ah, I don't remember why.

                                        But we thought this, too.

                                        • 2 votes
                                        #7.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:37 AM EST
                                        Aqualeo

                                        I remember her putting her hand on her somach in a weird way when they met bernard and rose.....but surely she wasn't just talking about being pregnant...although that was all she was originally concerned with...

                                        • 2 votes
                                        #7.2 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:43 AM EST
                                        blackwidow1

                                        OK ... I guess I don't know how to spell fluctuating ... LOL

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #7.3 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:45 AM EST
                                        Syntactic Tree

                                        Ahhh yes... good ol' Lostpedia (near the bottom). Rose offered her tea, and she declined, holding her stomach.

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #7.4 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:45 AM EST
                                        Inchiki

                                        Blackwidow1, that is an interesting thought that mere humans may not have a concept of the Island, that it can only be really understood from the perspectives of the players of the game, Jacob and Nemesis. And the parallel to Paradise Lost is genius, although I have the feeling that Jacob and Nemesis are not banished but voluntarily entered into their contest.

                                        • 2 votes
                                        #7.5 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:52 AM EST
                                        blackwidow1

                                        Thank you Inchiki. I'm not sure that Nemesis was banished either. But I do think that as long as Jacob was alive and on the island, he had to stay there too. They, like so many other concepts on this island (good/evil, black/white, science/faith), are polar opposites and work in tandem to achieve a balance of sorts.

                                        • 3 votes
                                        #7.6 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 1:03 AM EST
                                        Inchiki

                                        A good point, Blackwidow1. There are so many concepts involved that if I were a student, I'd have no lack of material for term papers. (Imagine getting a degree, in party, from watching TV!) Just take the name Jacob, alluding to Jacob/Israel. Jacob/Israel and his twin brother Esau are opposites in physical appearance and temperament . . . but it is Jacob, through deception , that becomes a forefather of the Jewish faith. And so on.

                                        • 6 votes
                                        #7.7 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 1:31 AM EST
                                        ctina1973

                                        When Jacob was killed or when Nemesis became the stronger power because of the death of Jacob, the spring water became polluted in some manner thus losing its healing power. When the leader of the temple dwellers cut his palm and put it in the water I expected (and I think that he expected) his palm to be healed, but it wasn't. He took a chance by attempting to heal Sayid in this water

                                        I thought his hand would be healed as well, like that creepy scene in Cape Fear when Robert De Niro is in the river.

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #7.8 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 2:02 AM EST
                                        Donuts

                                        In response to blackwidow1:

                                        I thought the women had difficulty delivering their children on the Island, not conceiving.

                                        • 3 votes
                                        #7.9 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 8:46 AM EST
                                        charlie-b

                                        I thought she was pregnant too.

                                          #7.10 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:29 PM EST
                                          Superman2001

                                          My wife said she was pregnant, too. That would explain why she wanted the bomb to go off.

                                            #7.11 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 3:36 PM EST
                                            Reply
                                            ranturn

                                            Thanks for a great recap Steve. So many thoughts to put down:

                                            Loved the line when the customs agent asked the marshall escorting Kate: "Anything to declare?" And he says, "Just a murderer!"

                                            My first impression of the water in the temple turning color: Reminded me when Moses turned the water to blood in the 10 Commandments.

                                            The faces of the departing Oceanic 815 passengers: I couldn't help but notice the hate on Charlie's face when he looked at Jack; fear in Kate's eyes, anticipation in Sayid, Jack looking relieved. But the one I felt truly sorry for was Locke. As Syntatic Tree mentioned above, Terry O'Quinn is an amazing actor. The despair and disgust on his face upon leaving the plane was priceless.

                                            What did Juliet mean by "it worked"? My first reaction to Miles' comment was that the passengers did not crash but after reading the posts above, I am inclined to agree that she was pregnant. She did touch her stomach in "The Incident". But what would be the significance of this extraordinary feat? Why bring it up if she is dead? I also have always felt that Juliet was harboring a secret that she never told anyone.

                                            Fear in Richard's eyes when he saw the rocket blast. I don't recall ever seeing that emotion in Richard before. He knew the warning that it conveyed. Hopefully we will get some answers on Richard's backstory in the weeks to come.

                                            I also noticed that Sawyer said more than once, "If she dies, I'll kill him." Anyone think there is any significance to that?

                                            Also, why haven't we seen the inhabitants of the temple before (with the exception of Cindy and the children)? There are alot more people on this island than we have been shown. And something else that bothered me - with the smoke monster. We have seen Ben bring him out for destruction but I don't ever recall Ben surrounding himself with ash when he has seen or confronted him. Why would Jacob allow Ben to conjure up the monster if Nemesis really does represent evil?

                                            It will be interesting to see if Locke does contact Jack to help him with the paralysis. The writers left that storyline way open. "Nothing is irreversible" Jack tells Locke. Are we to believe that now since the bomb exploded? Will that be a recurring theme this season?



                                            • 3 votes
                                            Reply#8 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 2:10 AM EST
                                            BlackRock Steve

                                            Hi Ranturn,

                                            YES, I too thought of Moses turning the Nile to blood and thought the temple spring water looked red....lots of Biblical references which is why I think the 'Lat Super' photos were done...expect many many more this season!!

                                            AGREED...Terry Quinn is awesome!!

                                            And YES, I loved it and almost fell off my chair with Jack's line, "Nothing is irreversible"...I think that's a rather blatent clue from the writers about their theme for the season....expect more of it!!

                                            • 3 votes
                                            #8.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 2:32 AM EST
                                            JohnBoy813

                                            You ask why Jacob would allow Ben to conjour 'smokey', simple answer 'Free Will'. Jacob mentioned free will and especially when Ben was going to kill him, he said that Ben had a choice.

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #8.2 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 11:02 AM EST
                                            Sue B.-1103360

                                            Also, why haven't we seen the inhabitants of the temple before (with the exception of Cindy and the children)? There are alot more people on this island than we have been shown. And something else that bothered me - with the smoke monster. We have seen Ben bring him out for destruction but I don't ever recall Ben surrounding himself with ash when he has seen or confronted him. Why would Jacob allow Ben to conjure up the monster if Nemesis really does represent evil?

                                            I thought about this too, and what I think is that at some point in their time on the Island, the Dharma people discovered smokie and figured out a way to control it/him without really even knowing what they were dealing with. Remember that Ben controled smokie from the Dharma compound.

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #8.3 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 6:51 PM EST
                                            Superman2001

                                            He didn't really "control" Smokey. He sort of summoned it/him, and then all hell broke loose. Ben even said that he couldn't control it/him.

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #8.4 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 7:13 PM EST
                                            TotallyLost

                                            I also noticed that Sawyer said more than once, "If she dies, I'll kill him." Anyone think there is any significance to that?

                                            This made me think of the faith people have in God, etc. They are loyal followers until something goes terribly wrong. (ie God is great until he's not.. then people "kill him" --> cease to believe in him.

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #8.5 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 10:27 AM EST
                                            Reply
                                            BlackRock Steve

                                            Namaste….Lost Rocks! Finally, mysteries revealed. MIB = Smoky. MIB was the “Help Me” spirit in the cabin visited by Ben & Locke…held captive in the cabin by the circle of white ash…until the circle was broken.

                                            The Big Questions:

                                            Why are the Losties both on the Island and off of it?

                                            • Daniel Faraday’s ‘The Variable’ worked….well almost…it created an alternative timeline but still left the Losties also in the 2007 timeline on the island. My kudos to blackwidow1, she is the only one I saw who correctly got the Cuse & Lindelof clue that they said was in the title for tonight’s show… The producers said that the title of tonight’s show, LA X, was a clue to the plot of the show since the space in that usual acronym for LA International Airport was deliberate. blackwidow1 posted in the ‘pre-article’ to my question that: “A theory about the space between the LA and the X ... X is commonly used as a variable, as the unknown. Like in an algebra problem or in the name Malcolm X. So perhaps, its a clue that we are delving into the unknown (sort of like Eloise Hawking says "this is the first time I don't know what's going to happen next) ... or just one variable/version of reality.” YES, as in Daniel Faraday’s variables in physics equationsfor timelines…I should have thought of that….the space and then an X that we were going to have split dual/alternate timelines!

                                            What did Juliet mean by "it worked"?

                                            • She knew the bomb and Faraday’s/Jack’s plan worked…She was aware of the alternative timeline established.

                                            What does Nemesis need to talk to Richard about?

                                            • A ruse by him…he just wanted to clobber him for his loyalty to and assisting Jacob and take him hostage (again).

                                            What happened to Desmond on the plane?

                                            • His “constant” Penny called so he immediately Flash-Forwarded over to see her…or someone else (Daniel F. or Eloise Hawking or someone) yanked him back to the other timeline.

                                            Where is Christian's coffin?

                                            • On the island, as is his dead body, just as Locke’s is.

                                            Who are the people in the Temple?

                                            • The original natives, the others, plus other folks brought to the island by Jacob over the centuries going back to and before the BlackRock.

                                            What is the significance of the Temple's water not being clear?

                                            • Jacob died, hence the water lost it’s healing power....in essence, it's been poisoned by death and Nemesis taking over.

                                            What was the purpose of the firework flare?

                                            • A prearranged warning alarm to warn Richard and all the ‘others’ out and about that Nemesis is loose!

                                            Where is the Nemesis' home that he wants to go to?

                                            • An excellent question and one of the key ones of the night…my bet is definitely off-island…back to his heaven or hell or paradise….more later on this one.

                                            What chains was Nemesis referring to?

                                            • We will find out more once the writers reveal more on Blackrock & Richard…my theory has always been that Richard came on the Blackrock, and was in chains on it or was imprisoned by rebellious crew or slaves after they were ‘recruited’ to do so by Nemesis; Richard died and was reborn becoming an immortal (“he will always be one of us”) by Jacob, which is why Richard has been loyal and assisting him ever since.

                                            Why is Nemesis disappointed in the people on the beach?

                                            • For being loyal followers of Jacob, rather than following and protecting him.

                                            Where is Nemesis taking Richard?

                                            • To the columned vault room (down thru the hole that Ben made that Hurley, Jack, Kate & Jin carefully walked around) below the temple wall where Ben met Smokey and there was the gate to the underworld and the dead.

                                            What did the Temple leader want to talk to Jack about?

                                            • To discuss how Sayid had been shot, since Jack said he was responsible, and to see what he knew about Jacob’s death.

                                            How did Sayid come to life again?

                                            • All part of Jacob’s ‘master plan’…It is Jacob…he needed a body to be ‘alive’ just as Nemesis used Locke’s body!
                                            • 5 votes
                                            Reply#9 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 2:18 AM EST
                                            blargle

                                            I had the same thought regarding the chains/Richard... he came to the island on Blackrock and was a prisoner/or an egyptian slave.

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #9.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 9:23 AM EST
                                            nik-865590

                                            I've always thought Richard pre-dates the Blackrock and was part of the original temple/statue builders as either a worker slave or temple slave. In last seasons finale she asks something like "which one of is Ricardus?" an older latin varient of Richard and he does speak latin better than any one else.

                                            I think Des just got up and went back to his original seat next to the snoring guy for the landing perhaps because that's where he stowed his carryon? But this is lost and that explanation seems a bit simple here :)

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #9.2 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 11:33 AM EST
                                            blargle

                                            I completely forgot about the "ricardus" scene...

                                              #9.3 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 11:45 AM EST
                                              FortifiedHooligan

                                              I'm with you on this on all but the reason they want to talk to Jack. I don't think it has to do with Sayid, nothing really to back that up, just a gut feeling. I am leaning more towards it having to do with Christian or what is on that piece of paper from the ahnk.

                                                #9.4 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 1:11 PM EST
                                                ctina1973

                                                Hmm.. So if it was Nemesis in the cabin trapped by the ash ring, why did Ilana and crew go there first? It felt like there were going there to find Jacob, but then they knew Jacob was in the foot. I'm confused again.

                                                I still like calling him Un-Locke. It makes me giggle.

                                                  #9.5 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 3:01 AM EST
                                                  say what??

                                                  Hmm.. So if it was Nemesis in the cabin trapped by the ash ring, why did Ilana and crew go there first? It felt like there were going there to find Jacob, but then they knew Jacob was in the foot. I'm confused again.

                                                  I thought they were going to the cabin to show Locke's dead body to whomever they expected to be there. If they expected Nemesis it would let him know they were on to him; if they expected Jacob they would warn him. I'm not sure they knew Jacob was in the foot - they knew to go there because of the piece of Jacob's tapestry showing Tawaret. Ilana showed it to Bram and he said something like "I guess we know where we're going." It was fastened to the wall with a large knife which is very Locke/Nemesis-like. I always wondered who left the woven Tarawet in the cabin.

                                                    #9.6 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 6:45 AM EST
                                                    Superman2001

                                                    I always assumed that they expected Jacob to be in the cabin.

                                                      #9.7 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 2:34 PM EST
                                                      Reply
                                                      boonesfarm

                                                      Remember when the leader warned Jack that there are risks to bringing Sayid back. I think that's what he wanted to talk to Jack about at the end of the episode. I think this is similar to when young Ben was brought back to life; maybe Sayid is alive, but he's not going to be the same.

                                                      Also, I don't think Desmond was really on the plane. I wouldn't say it's Jack's imagination, but there is no logical reason for him being there (just like there's no reason for Jack to be bleeding in the restroom). Plus, we don't see him when the plane lands.

                                                        Reply#10 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 3:08 AM EST
                                                        Pfemm

                                                        I don't think Desmond was really on the plane. I wouldn't say it's Jack's imagination, but there is no logical reason for him being there

                                                        There is no logical reason that we've been told.

                                                        I assume in this version of Desmond's life he was actually able to finish his little boat ride. Since he didn't get sucked into the island and he wasn't forced to push a button for several years... therefore all the time after finishing his sailing trip is completely new and unseen.

                                                        • 2 votes
                                                        #10.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 1:29 PM EST
                                                        JatsuSama

                                                        I assume in this version of Desmond's life he was actually able to finish his little boat ride.

                                                        Or not start it. He entered the boat race to impress Widmore, but Widmore most likely died as a result of the explosion.

                                                          #10.2 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 1:37 PM EST
                                                          Pfemm

                                                          Or not start it. He entered the boat race to impress Widmore, but Widmore most likely died as a result of the explosion.

                                                          There's no way i'm going to believe that they killed off Widmore (and Penny by default) until I see a body

                                                          :)

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #10.3 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 1:58 PM EST
                                                          Steve Watts

                                                          There's no way i'm going to believe that they killed off Widmore (and Penny by default) until I see a body

                                                          Well we know that in the timeline that the bomb went off, the Island is underwater. Even if we assume Widmore miraculously survived the blast and the Island sinking, his motives were to get back to the Island after being banished by Ben. If the Island was sunk by the blast, Ben didn't banish him, and he has no reason for that as his motive. That means no boat race, and no motive for Desmond to participate in the boat race.

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #10.4 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 2:14 PM EST
                                                          JatsuSama

                                                          There's no way i'm going to believe that they killed off Widmore (and Penny by default) until I see a body

                                                          Only in the alternate timeline, he's still alive in the original. And Penny would be alive in both, since she was born before 1977 (she didn't look younger than 17 when she met Desmond in 1994, anyway).

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #10.5 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 2:15 PM EST
                                                          Steve Watts

                                                          And Penny would be alive in both, since she was born before 1977 (she didn't look younger than 17 when she met Desmond in 1994, anyway).

                                                          True. Penny was born off the Island (and that's the reason he was banished). Still, the Island being underwater and Widmore being (probably) dead means there would be no reason for the boat race. Maybe in that reality Penny and Desmond got together without her father causing all sorts of trouble for them? They do say time has a way of self-correcting.

                                                          • 3 votes
                                                          #10.6 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 2:24 PM EST
                                                          Pfemm

                                                          hmmm see I'm not convinced that the bomb is the real reason the island is underwater

                                                          • 2 votes
                                                          #10.7 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 3:34 PM EST
                                                          Steve Watts

                                                          That's a possibility. Until I'm told otherwise, though, I'm assuming that the electromagnetic energy is what kept the Island afloat. It doesn't seem connected to the ocean floor seeing as it could move. Detonating Jughead dissipated that energy and sunk it. At least, that's what I'm assuming until the show explicitly gives me another reason. I'm not convinced they will -- they've got a lot of plot to resolve and only a little time to do it.

                                                          • 2 votes
                                                          #10.8 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 3:37 PM EST
                                                          Shaun Guidolin

                                                          Well we know that in the timeline that the bomb went off, the Island is underwater. Even if we assume Widmore miraculously survived the blast and the Island sinking, his motives were to get back to the Island after being banished by Ben. If the Island was sunk by the blast, Ben didn't banish him, and he has no reason for that as his motive. That means no boat race, and no motive for Desmond to participate in the boat race.

                                                          Let's not forget that Ben "moved" the island to what seemed to be underwater .. or through time, who really knows. But the island looked to be fine - except for the fact it was underwater, so my guess is that perhaps it's "frozen in time" .. or completely livable down there - spongebob style.

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #10.9 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 3:38 PM EST
                                                          Rob-2

                                                          Also, I don't think Desmond was really on the plane. I wouldn't say it's Jack's imagination, but there is no logical reason for him being there (just like there's no reason for Jack to be bleeding in the restroom). Plus, we don't see him when the plane lands.

                                                          But of course we don't see Claire either and she had to be on the plane....just saying...

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #10.10 - Thu Feb 4, 2010 3:34 PM EST
                                                          Reply
                                                          NCL70506

                                                          Hello everyone. I am so glad that Lost is back. I thought I would list a few things that caught my attention in the two hour premiere, since I agree with many of the answers listed already to the questions posed by Steve.

                                                          First, on the altered flight 815 and the LA airport:

                                                          1 - Desmond is on this flight and he chooses to sit by Jack; there are other empty seats.

                                                          2 - Hurley tells Sawyer that he is the luckiest guy alive. In this “reality” are the numbers good/lucky?

                                                          3 - Charlie tried to kill himself in the bathroom, and he gets angry at Jack for saving his life; he tells Jack he was supposed to die. Hmm. Several things with this one: Jack saved Charlie’s life once before, on the Island when he was found hanging after a confrontation with Ethan. (Is Jack destined to save Charlie’s life?) On the original flight 815, I got the impression that Charlie was in the bathroom to get high, not to kill himself. On the Island, Charlie sacrificed himself so Desmond could get the message about the freighter. In any “reality,” Charlie seems destined to die at a young age.

                                                          4 - The plane had turbulence, but they landed safely in LA. Did the turbulence occur at the same time as the original flight?

                                                          5 - Jin is questioned at the airport for not declaring a large amount of money. Sun pretends not to speak English, thereby not having to explain the money to security personnel. Was this money that she brought since she was thinking about leaving Jin, or was this money brought by Jin? I could not tell from that scene, but Sun seemed suspicious.

                                                          6 - Kate happens to jump in the cab that Claire is in.

                                                          Second, on the Island:

                                                          1 - Juliet survived long enough to die in Sawyer’s arms.

                                                          2 - Jacob appears to Hurley and tells him to take Sayid and friends to the Temple for help and safety. He also tells him that he died an hour ago, and Jin won‘t be able to see him. This seems like the dead people appearing to Hurley that we have seen in the past; this may be why it was so important for Jacob to get Hurley back to the island. Is Hurley the only one who can see dead Jacob?

                                                          3 - Nemesis repeatedly stated that he wanted to talk to Richard, but when he finally saw him, Nemesis only said a few words, then beat the crap out of him.

                                                          4 - Sun and the other people on the beach realize the real John Locke is dead.

                                                          5 - Nemesis does not seem interested in killing Ben.

                                                          6 - The contents of the guitar case are revealed: an ankh containing a letter with a list of names on it from Jacob. Names include Hugo, Jack, Kate, Jin, and Sayid. Their lives are spared because of this list/letter. It reminds me of Jacob’s list from a previous season with some of these name on it.

                                                          7 - Whispers are heard in the tunnels leading to the Temple just before Kate, Hurley, and Jack are taken outside.

                                                          8 - Ben realized that Nemesis is not John Locke, that he is the Smoke Monster, that he used Ben, and the real John Locke is dead (again). The expressions on Ben’s face are priceless.

                                                          Fascinating, and I can’t wait to see what happens next!

                                                          • 3 votes
                                                          Reply#11 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 4:54 AM EST
                                                          Lo2013

                                                          I just have a few comments on this great post:

                                                          1 - Desmond is on this flight and he chooses to sit by Jack; there are other empty seats.

                                                          If I ever needed further proof that Des is Jacob's son, this is it.

                                                          3 - Charlie tried to kill himself in the bathroom, and he gets angry at Jack for saving his life; he tells Jack he was supposed to die.

                                                          Curious, isn't it? All the 'dead' people on the flight making these ominous statements (Boone making the comment to Locke about sticking with him if they crash).

                                                          4 - The plane had turbulence, but they landed safely in LA. Did the turbulence occur at the same time as the original flight?

                                                          Yes it did, give or take a few seconds. Youtube has a great split video of it.

                                                          6 - Kate happens to jump in the cab that Claire is in.

                                                          And I imagine it worked out this way to create the parallel to original history. Kate helped Claire deliver Aaron on the island and she'll do it in this reality as well.

                                                          3 - Nemesis repeatedly stated that he wanted to talk to Richard, but when he finally saw him, Nemesis only said a few words, then beat the crap out of him.

                                                          Yeah, I'm guessing he never really wanted to talk to Richard, just knock him out and take him.

                                                          A very good layout and I suspect things will become more clear to all of us as the episodes progress and we get a better idea of how they're making these parallel realities mesh.

                                                          • 6 votes
                                                          #11.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 11:43 AM EST
                                                          Merlin-834235

                                                          ~ Lo ~

                                                          Good to see you back! Thanks for the link to the split video.. It DID put the timing in excellent context. I like your new picture in your profile!

                                                          If I ever needed further proof that Des is Jacob's son, this is it.

                                                          I don't remember ever seeing a reference to how/why/if Desmond could/would be Jacob's son, do you remember where that idea came from? Was there something that was broadcast, or is that some tangent that you have been exploring? Just wondering what got you thinking about that possibility. (you've got my email addy, so you can answer my question offline if you like...

                                                          -=M=-
                                                          ‹(•¿•)›


                                                          • 2 votes
                                                          #11.2 - Sun Feb 7, 2010 2:39 AM EST
                                                          Reply
                                                          Merlin-834235

                                                          I wrote this during the commercial breaks and I didn't look at any of the comments above before I posted this... because I didn't want to get sidetracked by other people before I posted my own impressions...

                                                          Whew! What a ride!! An "E Ticket" to say the very least, Blackrock Steve!! And I should know!! I drove Submarines at Disneyland in Anaheim during the summer of 1961... Also took in a lot of "E Tickets". I DROVE that "E Ticket" Ride for three months! Also had the run of the park when I was off duty! That was also when I first learned that the young girls did seem to be interested in "men in uniform". It sure was an interesting Summer!! Met a lot of very nice, pretty young ladies!!

                                                          At first, I couldn't understand how Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Sun, Jin, Sayid,(dying... but might be resurrected from the dead) Charlie,(dead on the island), Boone (dead on the island), science teacher Artz (dead on the island),Locke (MIB, SMOKEY) but also real Locke (dead on the island) (Still crippled on the plane).....etc... could be on the plane and on the island at the same time. A strange parallel time trick that I expect will be ironed out somewhere in the future. When the Losties who were still on the island awoke and realized they were still on the island.... after seeing everyone on the plane including my 'BROTHER' Desmond (who mysteriously disappeared before Jack got back from saving Charlie's life, I was momentarily "LOST-fused"!. The story worked its way along back and forth between the plane and the island with "The Chosen" appearing in both places at the same time... and then, back on the island, Hurley hears a noise.... looks around for a minute and finds.... Jacob! who tells Hurley how to save Sayid... Juliet is alive!!(for awhile ~ made me cry all over again) It was horrible to see Smokey kill Jacob's army! And Bram solved the "Ring of ash" question... only to get blown out of the ring and get killed by Smokey... Back at LA X... I love the way Kate 'bailed'!! With Sawyer's help. And also "CabJacked' a taxi with Claire in it!! Miles says Juliet (from the grave) said " It worked"... I think Juliet and Sawyer are going to meet up again and somehow "Know each other"... -{8-D that will be my happiest moment of the whole saga! The Ankh is in the guitar case! Breaking it open, the guy comes up with the list of names of Jacob's "PEOPLE" (the ones he touched) and everybody gets a 'pass' into the temple... I figured Sayid would come out of the water as Jacob... and when that didn't happen, I thought that Jack was going to succeed at resuscitation.... Miles and Sawyer are captured by the temple people. Sawyer was one of "The Chosen"... Nice scene between John Locke (the real crippled one) & Jack at the end... I predict they will have a larger arc of relationship before the end of the show.... And.. at the end... for the 6.01 finale'...SAYID LIVES!! Woo Hoo!! One Hell-of-a-Ride!! Our local (Seattle) ABC station talked quite a bit about the season opener and had a Michael Emerson mini-dissertation-interview. The ABC show "Nightline" also spent a full 13 minutes at the end of their broadcast on an analytical/informational piece on the story, the production, the actors, the producers, the writers, the blogs, the podcasts, etc... with tours by Jorge Garcia and Terry O'Quinn... their take on the whole LOST phenomenon is the same as mine! As I said earlier... LOST IS VIRAL!! There will never be another TV program like it!

                                                          Poor old Ben!! He was soo disillusioned when he realized who/what Fake-Locke really was... I could hear his mind... "What a TOOL I've been!! Then he watches Fake-Locke Wup-Ass on Richard and haul him off into the jungle. That is one reason I think Ben is going to rally the troops and somehow find a way to destroy MIB/SMOKEY! It is very interesting to see Terry O'Quinn's range of motion... As the MIB, I HATE him with every fiber of my being!! Once again, LOST creates more questions than it answers... Why would I expect anything different, just because it is the last season? . Also, on Jimmy Kimmel's show after the news, Jimmy interviewed Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse, who revealed not much more than the fact that LOST will air the final, FINAL , FINAL episode on Sunday, May 23rd 2010! I plan to take a week or so off after the final episode, then wean myself away from my addiction by watching all six seasons again. From a totally unbiased point of view, I feel safe in saying that I don't think there will ever be another TV suspense drama the likes of LOST... Ever!

                                                          Now... I'm NOT going to read everyone else's take on the season premiere... since it's past 2AM already... I'm off to dreamland! See ya' in the morning!

                                                          -=M=-
                                                          ‹(•¿•)›

                                                          • 3 votes
                                                          Reply#12 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 5:14 AM EST
                                                          mattaww

                                                          seems to me that Jack, who needs redemption more than any person ever, is destined to confront and defeat Locke/Nemesis. some of the so-called 'rules' of episodic writing (which seldom apply to these folks) dictate that they tie out the interesting moments of Jack vs. Locke from one timeline with another. in order for good to defeat evil, there needs to be a hero and and a nemesis, and a battle. i believe we have seen the final set up of the chess board.

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          Reply#13 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 6:48 AM EST
                                                          tpacpm

                                                          Not sure if anyone mentioned it but I saw a different significance to the fireworks. Since the people on the beach saw it, it means that Jack's group and Sun's group are in the same time. That wasn't the case when the Ajira flight landed.

                                                          • 2 votes
                                                          Reply#14 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 7:33 AM EST
                                                          lkgroves

                                                          Did anybody else think that Jack was experiencing deja vu everytime he saw someone from the island on the plane? 

                                                          • 5 votes
                                                          Reply#15 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 8:24 AM EST
                                                          someoneelse-1546995

                                                          I'll second you on this one - I had the same feeling.

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #15.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 8:46 AM EST
                                                          LostinToronto

                                                          Agreed. And did you see the way he looked at himself...he had aged significantly from when he first got on the plane...I wonder if somewhere inside he was thinking WTF?...oh well.

                                                          • 3 votes
                                                          #15.2 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:38 PM EST
                                                          Reply
                                                          Courtneyloveslost

                                                          I also thought Sayid is now really Jacob. Question: When the nemesis claimed Locke's body, the dead body was also still there. (on the beach) So why when Jacob took over Sayid is there no body left?

                                                          • 2 votes
                                                          Reply#16 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 9:07 AM EST
                                                          Jilie

                                                          they burned it in the fire

                                                            #16.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 11:41 AM EST
                                                            JatsuSama

                                                            Nemesis didn't possess Locke's body, he shapeshifted into Locke's form.

                                                              #16.2 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 11:48 AM EST
                                                              Courtneyloveslost

                                                              Jilie....I was asking why there were not 2 Sayid's. I know they burned Jacob in the fire.

                                                              Thanks JatsuSama! So now it looks like Jacob has posessed Sayid's body?

                                                                #16.3 - Fri Feb 5, 2010 7:47 PM EST
                                                                Reply
                                                                Brian Ford

                                                                Why are the Losties both on the Island and off of it?

                                                                The characters chose to forego a raise for a stipulation in their contract that they got to be clean and dry for at least half an entire season.

                                                                What did Juliet mean by "it worked"?

                                                                Cleary, she knows something about the other reality, whatever that is.

                                                                What does Nemesis need to talk to Richard about?

                                                                About that five bucks you owe me...

                                                                What happened to Desmond on the plane?

                                                                Is it tied to Charlie almost dying again?

                                                                Where is Christian's coffin?

                                                                Perhaps the fact that Christian is "alive" in an alternate reality when he should be dead causes some issues with his body in the other reality?

                                                                Who are the people in the Temple?

                                                                Other Other Others.

                                                                What is the significance of the Temple's water not being clear?

                                                                Clogged drain or Jacob's death. Steve mentions that it may not be Jacob's death, because the Other Other Others seemed surprised by his death, but they also seemed surprised by the water, so may not have known that it signified that.

                                                                What was the purpose of the firework flare?

                                                                Warning to the other Others.

                                                                Where is the Nemesis' home that he wants to go to?

                                                                Temple. Speaking of which. Who knew these people were Mormon?

                                                                What chains was Nemesis referring to?

                                                                I'm thinking this set of chains is particularly bug-eyed.

                                                                Why is Nemesis disappointed in the people on the beach?

                                                                They are pretty disappointing, as characters. Nemesis is just saying what everyone is thinking.

                                                                Where is Nemesis taking Richard?

                                                                Bargaining chip. Though, I think I'd take "life" and "security" over "Richard" but none of the Others have ever been particularly bright.

                                                                What did the Temple leader want to talk to Jack about?

                                                                "如此,相信它或没有,我有脊髓癌症,并且我希望您做手术…"

                                                                How did Sayid come to life again?

                                                                Surely, you've heard the saying: "On the island, dead is dead, unless you're certain characters, at which point dead is a plot point." (Also, I think Jacob is now in his body. If that's the case, why couldn't Locke get Jacob? Pout.)

                                                                • 3 votes
                                                                Reply#17 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 9:14 AM EST
                                                                Shaun Guidolin

                                                                What is the significance of the Temple's water not being clear?

                                                                Clogged drain or Jacob's death. Steve mentions that it may not be Jacob's death, because the Other Other Others seemed surprised by his death, but they also seemed surprised by the water, so may not have known that it signified that.

                                                                I wonder if it was dark because the smoke monster was activated?

                                                                  #17.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:59 AM EST
                                                                  Suzy Q 184

                                                                  What did the Temple leader want to talk to Jack about?

                                                                  "如此,相信它或没有,我有脊髓癌症,并且我希望您做手术…"

                                                                  Should we look up the translation for this? :)

                                                                    #17.2 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:13 PM EST
                                                                    JatsuSama

                                                                    Should we look up the translation for this? :)

                                                                    Nah, that's Chinese. The temple leader was speaking Japanese. But if you're still interested, it translates to, "So, believe it or not, I have a spinal cancer, and I hope you surgery."

                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                    #17.3 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:36 PM EST
                                                                    charlie-b

                                                                    Locke didn't die on the island.

                                                                      #17.4 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:36 PM EST
                                                                      Brian Ford

                                                                      Nah, that's Chinese. The temple leader was speaking Japanese. But if you're still interested, it translates to, "So, believe it or not, I have a spinal cancer, and I hope you surgery."

                                                                      Chinese, Japanese, who's keeping track?

                                                                      :P

                                                                      Here you go:

                                                                      従って、それをまたはない信じなさい、しかし私は脊柱の癌を経験し、外科を行うことができることを望んでいた。

                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                      #17.5 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 2:17 PM EST
                                                                      Superman2001

                                                                      I said the same thing about the Temple leader. Spinal surgery. Funny.

                                                                      Secondly, in answer to the question about why Locke didn't get "inhabited" by Jacob, it's probably because Locke died off the Island.

                                                                        #17.6 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 3:42 PM EST
                                                                        Reply
                                                                        Courtneyloveslost

                                                                        Why are the Losties both on the Island and off of it? Easiest answer is alternate reality. The whole thing just confuses me!

                                                                        What did Juliet mean by "it worked"? I thought Juliet was going to tell him she was pregnant. When she said "it worked" I thought she meant the bomb.

                                                                        What does Nemesis need to talk to Richard about? Not sure on this one. Maybe he wants Richard to serve him now.

                                                                        What happened to Desmond on the plane? I think he went to the island.

                                                                        Where is Christian's coffin? The Island

                                                                        Who are the people in the Temple? The others. I kept asking my husband why they kept showing the flight attendant so much. She is the other who identified them. I also noticed the two kids that were at one point kidnapped.

                                                                        What is the significance of the Temple's water not being clear? Has to do with Jacob's death. I think it meant it might not work.

                                                                        What was the purpose of the firework flare? It was a warning to the rest of the Others that Jacob had died.

                                                                        Where is the Nemesis' home that he wants to go to? Not sure. Maybe the temple.

                                                                        What chains was Nemesis referring to? The chains that bound him to Jacob?????

                                                                        Why is Nemesis disappointed in the people on the beach? For being Team Jacob?

                                                                        Where is Nemesis taking Richard? To the temple.

                                                                        What did the Temple leader want to talk to Jack about? Since he is the leader he wanted to find out what happened to Sayid.

                                                                        How did Sayid come to life again? The "healing water". I do think it is Jacob but when Sayid first spoke I swear it sounded like Charlie's accent. My husband thinks I'm crazy and maybe so do I. So now I'm going to say it's Jacob.

                                                                          Reply#18 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 9:16 AM EST
                                                                          Mike Johnson-1604544

                                                                          it was cool to see cindy the flight attendant again (and the kids), but living amongst the others hasn't seemed to change her life much. The only thing we saw her do was serve drinks (via the kids).

                                                                          • 3 votes
                                                                          #18.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:35 AM EST
                                                                          reneeslost

                                                                          Mike Johnson - hahahahahahahahha (serving drinks), astute observation!!

                                                                          • 2 votes
                                                                          #18.2 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 2:11 PM EST
                                                                          Reply
                                                                          blackwidow1

                                                                          Does anyone remember what Juliet said to Sawyer after he finally got to her at the bottom of the hole? (I'm at work and don't have access to my DVR and this will drive me nuts all day ... alas the life of a Lost fanatic).

                                                                          It sounded like she was talking about having coffee together and going Dutch. He looked at her and said, "Juliet, it's me James" and then she seemed to snap out of her daze and then began speaking of the "something important" to tell him.

                                                                          This entire scene reminded me of when Charlotte died but before she did she said "I'm not allowed to have chocolate before dinner." We came to find that that phrase was said to Daniel at a much earlier time.

                                                                          Does anyone remember a conversation between Juliet and Sawyer about having a cup of coffee together? Could this be a glimpse/clue into the alternative timeline where Sawyer and Juliet meet at some future point in the alternate timeline (rather than a glimpse into the past as was Charlotte's memories)?

                                                                          Maybe this is why Juliet said "it worked?"

                                                                          • 13 votes
                                                                          Reply#19 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 9:39 AM EST
                                                                          pinkcap

                                                                          BlackWidow,

                                                                          I just posted my answers to the questions and in in I referenced Sebastian Palpatines' article. SayWhat?? had an interesting theory about Holograms and this scenario would fit. From what I understand, people can see across the hologram into another reality. It's why Hurley sees dead people and Desmond time travelled. That would explain what Juliet was talking about - she saw them in this other reality and knew that she would see Sawyer again. SayWhat can explain it better than I can. Hopefully, she'll see your post and confirm this.

                                                                          • 2 votes
                                                                          #19.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:46 AM EST
                                                                          Mike Johnson-1604544

                                                                          Great catch! Almost makes me wonder if the fall killed Juliet or if it was one time travel too many. back in season 5 she seemed to be the next one to go if they jumped one more time.

                                                                          Also a random theory of mine, now -- I started wondering if juliet's actions and "it worked" was really the epicenter of the time shifting. The interaction of a hydrogen bomb core and the electomagnetic pocket at the swan site seems a more plausible cause for the time shifts than a jiggly donkey wheel at the orchid. Maybe Juliet came to understand this strange time paradox and was the important thing she wanted to try to convey to sawyer before she died.

                                                                          • 2 votes
                                                                          #19.2 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:54 AM EST
                                                                          Susanaree

                                                                          Blackwidow - this was the post I was looking for! I had the same thought, around 3:00 this morning. Charlotte and the line about chocolate, and now this line about going dutch for coffee. I'm wondering if this will somehow play out in the finale, triggering a memory for Sawyer.

                                                                          • 2 votes
                                                                          #19.3 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 1:17 PM EST
                                                                          Reply
                                                                          keith.corrigan

                                                                          Ok So this season I am actually getting involved in this. Lots of good stuff last night. Finally we are back, but what really sucks is that the end is in sight.

                                                                          Why are the Losties both on the Island and off of it?

                                                                          I have to agree with the parallel universe thing, that's really the only explanation. But my thing is with all the talk of redemption that has been going around, I think that each universe is inexplicably tied together. I think that what happens in one will effect the other, leading up to some culminating event where they will snap back together to which ever time-line the course of events dictates. I'm not quite sure which is hinged on which, but I am inclined to believe that what happens back on the island will dictate if they are able to find their redemption in the LA storyline. This I think lends credence to the whole variable theme in the title of the show, as well as Jack looking, at everyone from the island with what appeared to be deja-vu. I hope I explained this in a way that made sense.

                                                                          The other theory that was presented to me, (by my sister-in-law), was the fact that maybe everything that happened on the island is still meant to happen, just not in the same way. For instance, Jack saying that "nothing is impossible", maybe he is meant to make Locke walk again. And Charlie, saying he was supposed to die, maybe he IS supposed to die. Thought it was also weird that "Edward", (really Kate? First name basis? Really?), got nailed in the head just like he did when the plane crashed the first time, (if it really did crash. stupid parallel universes, confusing me). And then you have Clair. Kate basically takes her hostage. So maybe she keeps her hostage tills she has Aaron, and then decides to keep him as well (again). Which brings me to my question of the day? Where the hell was Claire on the plane??? Was she on a different flight? Maybe the flight with Christian's body?

                                                                          Obviously, I like my theory better, (because it is mine) but both have their merits I think.

                                                                          What did Juliet mean by "it worked"?

                                                                          My wife and I also hypothesized that she was going to say she was pregnant, but then she said "it worked", which we assumed to be that the bomb worked. If that is the case my only problem with that scenario is why she didn't know right away. When Sawyer first got to her, she got really upset that it didn't work. Why all of the sudden did she realize it did? And if she was alluding to the fact that she was pregnant, why would she say "it worked"?? That's not a very good way to tell someone you're pregnant, and if that is what she meant, jeers to the writer's for that thinly veiled attempt at deception.

                                                                          What does Nemesis need to talk to Richard about?

                                                                          Standing him up for a dinner date??

                                                                          I don't know this is a good question, perhaps like someone said, maybe just to do what he did on the beach, away from all the prying eyes. Maybe to get him to switch sides, because his master is now dead. It seems to be that Smokey/MIB/Locke/Nemesis is the epitome of consequence, you know for every action there is a reaction, because I don't think he was able to do anything to Bram and his guys until they actually fired at him, and when he did he was able to kill them. Though this theory annoys me, because I can't come up with a reason he killed Eco.

                                                                          What happened to Desmond on the plane?

                                                                          Charlie was finally out of the bathroom, so he went in after. It is a long flight after all. I know there is a significance to this, as there is to why he was there in the first place, but for the life of me I can't explain this.

                                                                          Where is Christian's coffin?

                                                                          I like the Ann Arbor, MI idea, proposed earlier. That could lead to all kinds of interesting plot lines.

                                                                          Who are the people in the Temple?

                                                                          College Professors on sabbatical? I would say the "original others". Probably more descendants form the Black Rock if not original passengers, who I believe Richard to be as well. The only thing that annoys me about this, is why introduce even more new characters at this point?

                                                                          What is the significance of the Temple's water not being clear?

                                                                          Has to be tied to Jacob's death or Nemesis being "free".

                                                                          What was the purpose of the firework flare?

                                                                          To warn Richard, (who did look up in what can only be described as fear), and the rest, and who knows? Cheap display by the way, he could've have sprung for some better fireworks.

                                                                          Where is the Nemesis's home that he wants to go to?

                                                                          I had assumed the temple, but after reading other posts, I like that is somewhere off island. Maybe the island was like his prison, banished there away from the rest of the world, and Jacob was his keeper. Perhaps he is looking, for a way to get back to the "real" world and wreak havoc on the hordes of humanity.

                                                                          What chains was Nemesis referring to?

                                                                          As I said, I think Richard was a passenger on the Black Rock, which we know was a slave ship. Ergo, he was not a willing passenger on the boat.

                                                                          Why is Nemesis disappointed in the people on the beach?

                                                                          It's a great question. Probably, for being what he considers sheep and blindly following Jacob, without ever even meeting him.

                                                                          Where is Nemesis taking Richard?

                                                                          To meet his parents? Which if that were the case, Richard would probably not enjoy that much. But, I would have to say the temple, to probably make an example of him before the rest of friends back at the temple.

                                                                          What did the Temple leader want to talk to Jack about?

                                                                          There are a couple of possibilities here. What happened to Sayid? How did they manage to survive with Smokey being lose for so long? If Kate is single? Plans for defending the temple? Who knows?

                                                                          How did Sayid come to life again?

                                                                          I like the Jacob idea, to basically do what MIB did, (which by the way I would like to know when, how, he did what he did to John) If Jacob is Sayid, did MIB's body need to die to for him to inhabit John's body? But, my only question then becomes, if he is Jacob now, how comes his first question was, "What happened'?

                                                                          Ok, my initial thoughts, I look forward to hearing every else's ideas as we head through the week.

                                                                          • 2 votes
                                                                          Reply#20 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 9:41 AM EST
                                                                          keith.corrigan

                                                                          One last thing. Unless I missed it, this still didn't explain why Sun didn't bounce back in time with the rest, and was stuck with Ben and Frank.

                                                                          • 1 vote
                                                                          #20.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:23 AM EST
                                                                          Bordsox-999133

                                                                          She didn't bounce because she was in the present with everyone else. The bomb group jumped foreward to Sun and the beach crew. She was on the beach and saw the fireworks too.

                                                                            #20.2 - Sat Feb 6, 2010 6:14 AM EST
                                                                            say what??

                                                                            One last thing. Unless I missed it, this still didn't explain why Sun didn't bounce back in time with the rest, and was stuck with Ben and Frank.

                                                                            You are asking why Sun didn't go to 1977 with Jack, Kate, Sayid and Hurley when Ajira 316 crash landed. She was also touched by Jacob and after seeing the premiere it seems she will have a special role to play and needed to be separated from the group in the temple. If she had "bounced" with them to 1977 she would have bounced back with them and ended up in the temple. Just a guess, but there has to be a reason she is separated from the rest.

                                                                            • 1 vote
                                                                            #20.3 - Sat Feb 6, 2010 6:43 AM EST
                                                                            Reply
                                                                            opus_rma

                                                                            Juliet says, “It worked.” And it works!

                                                                            Last night’s episode presented lots of fun and new action, story, Smokey fun, Ben making faces of surprise (which I absolutely love), et al. But the thing that captured me most is the way things seem to fit better together now than before, at least where it comes to time line and time travel.

                                                                            Until now we had no idea why, when the Losties found themselves bouncing around through time after Ben turned the flying donkey wheel, they wound up where they wound up or with whom. But it now makes much more sense to me. Time travel only stopped once Locke turned the wheel. But in putting the pieces together with the latest time jump I now have a better understanding.

                                                                            The question posed by Steve, “Why are the Losties both on the Island and off of it?” presupposes that one must be an alternate time line. I don’t see it that way. Take into account the following:

                                                                            1 The Losties being bounced around through time seemed to wind up somewhere and when they needed to be: Daniel needed to learn about jughead; Locke needed to meet Richard earlier on so that Locke could much later use that meeting to gain Richard’s trust. These were deliberate instances of the Losties needing to be in the past. Those are the only two that jump off the top of my head.

                                                                            2 The Ajira flighters landed in two different time zones. Those that landed in the present have no knowledge of the time travel. Those landing in the past learned what was going on, came to accept Daniel’s theory on variables and decided to change the future by exploding the bomb.

                                                                            3 The Ajira flighters tossed into the past get stuck in 1977.

                                                                            4 After the bomb detonation, the Losties go forward to 2007

                                                                            I believe, in every case it is because that’s where they needed to be. Their presence for knowledge gain or action, was needed in every past time line, for however long the moment. Once Locke turned the wheel, however, they were no longer needed prior to 1977. That was the moment that brought together all the knowledge from the past that allowed them to change the outcome of the Incident. By changing that outcome, they have changed all that has happened since. When Juliet said, it worked. She meant their past time lines had been changed. That does not necessarily mean all is right with the world. So, Oceanic 815 landing safely has now become the Losties actual past, all the memories of those still on the island not withstanding.

                                                                            Since the final correction is still in play, the Losties being on the island, it means there must be another correction (or two) to restore the time line. For this to happen, all the Losties, and Miles, who are still on the island must now find their way back there by 2007 from wherever they are in 2004. But how to do that? Well, Claire should be returning to Australia after the adoption. Jack has to find his dad’s body. Alana still has to arrest Sayid. Jin because of the suspicious stash of money may get deported back to Australia, etc. There must be some new machinations to get them all one flight again.

                                                                            Finally, the last correction, when it occurs, must occur at the point the natural timeline was disturbed. For me, that means, the moment Jacob came into someone’s life in the past. For Kate and Sawyer, that would mean their lives would change starting in their childhood; for Jack, after the vending machine meeting; Locke after the fall from the window; etc. Why do I think this? Since these people were singled out by Jacob, it makes sense to me their lives would be changed once all the time line corrections are said and done. And perhaps this correction will change everone’s lives for the better. I say this, because Nemesis Locke (NemLocke?) said they all had miserable lives, that only Locke had understood that and had wanted to change it. For most of them, the continued misery that comes into their lives seems to be how they dealt with their own situation from the moment Jacob met them.

                                                                            • 10 votes
                                                                            Reply#21 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 9:47 AM EST
                                                                            opus_rma

                                                                            And here are my answers to Steve's questions

                                                                            • Why are the Losties both on the Island and off of it?

                                                                            They are not. The off the island parts are now their history (see above).

                                                                            • What did Juliet mean by "it worked"?

                                                                            Their timelines have changed.

                                                                            • What does Nemesis need to talk to Richard about?

                                                                            To rub in the fact that “heee’s baaack!”

                                                                            • What happened to Desmond on the plane?

                                                                            Desmond was not on the plane at start or finish. Being a constant, now for Jack, he simply popped in and out of that time? (okay, that’s a stretch)

                                                                            • Where is Christian's coffin?

                                                                            Back on the island (as some above have suggested)

                                                                            • Who are the people in the Temple?

                                                                            Loyal followers of Jacob who have been through their own island experiences and earned the right to be in the temple. Perhaps others formerly in bondage to Nemesis but freed by Jacob.

                                                                            • What is the significance of the Temple's water not being clear?

                                                                            It means Jacob is no longer in charge.

                                                                            • What was the purpose of the firework flare?

                                                                            To let others from the Temple, wherever else they may be on the island, know they’ve gone to red alert. NemLocke is coming.

                                                                            • Where is the Nemesis' home that he wants to go to?

                                                                            His home is in the Temple where he was co ruler with Jacob.

                                                                            • What chains was Nemesis referring to?

                                                                            Bondage under NemLocke; freed by Jacob.

                                                                            • Why is Nemesis disappointed in the people on the beach?

                                                                            For siding with Jacob.

                                                                            • Where is Nemesis taking Richard?

                                                                            To witness him destroying the Temple’s in habitants.

                                                                            • What did the Temple leader want to talk to Jack about?

                                                                            The truth about the Island, whatever that is. And he chose Jack because he appeared to have an open mind. (Finally! That he didn’t argue with Hugo about how to heal Sayid spoke volumes to me.)

                                                                            • How did Sayid come to life again?

                                                                            The most obvious answer is he is now Jacob.

                                                                            • 2 votes
                                                                            #21.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 9:49 AM EST
                                                                            keith.corrigan

                                                                            Hmmm....some very good ideas here. You know I didn't even realize that we were dealing with two different times, as far as Flight 815 and the island stuff. That's a great point about that being there actual past now, but they still have the chance to be on the Ajira flight. Making it possible for them to still be there in the future. If that is the case though, wouldn't there island selves remember their new past. (Oxymoron?)

                                                                            This theory leans toward my sister-in-laws, which I am naturally agianst, so I am obliged to disagree...:)

                                                                            But definitely gave me some more to think about.

                                                                            • 1 vote
                                                                            #21.2 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:31 AM EST
                                                                            Mike Johnson-1604544

                                                                            I really like your theory that the plane reality (for lack of a better term) is a picture of the losties progress on the island -- and that there is clearly one more correction needed to go. For me, the biggest evidence for this theory is the existence of the island at the bottom of the ocean during the Oceanic flight 815 reboot. I don't believe the island is supposed to be sunk. In fact, I believe that the ocean floor is the home that smokey/nemesis is trying to get back to. He is now working on causing destruction that will sink the island and the losties final correction won't take place until they thwart him.

                                                                            • 1 vote
                                                                            #21.3 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 11:14 AM EST
                                                                            opus_rma

                                                                            Mike,

                                                                            I must admit I about crapped my pants when they showed the island at the bottom of the sea. (I knew then we were in for some good story telling and prognosticating on our part.) I did not think beyond that being the result of the timeline correction. I do like your idea that the island does not belong underwater.

                                                                            • 2 votes
                                                                            #21.4 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 11:23 AM EST
                                                                            Mike Johnson-1604544

                                                                            haha, yeah and when they first shot back to the island and the sound was all strange, i thought maybe they were underwater in a glass bubble... my prognosticating gets the best of me sometimes!

                                                                              #21.5 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 11:29 AM EST
                                                                              Shaun Guidolin

                                                                              I thought so too .. but I think it was just to show that Kate's hearing was off because of the blast... which is also why they were blown all over the place.

                                                                                #21.6 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 3:41 PM EST
                                                                                Twinkle391

                                                                                Keith.Corrigan - Wow you are either way too involved in Lost or way smarter than the average joe. Good theory and one which I'll steal and tell my family I came up with. No, seriously, I'll give you credit.

                                                                                Makes excellent sense!

                                                                                Thanks!

                                                                                  #21.7 - Tue Feb 9, 2010 12:26 PM EST
                                                                                  Reply
                                                                                  RadleyIsMyConstant

                                                                                  Some comments:

                                                                                  - I don't think that Juliet's "It worked" message references either a pregnancy or the alternate reality for the Losties. Someone else on here correctly mentioned the fact that getting pregnant wasn't the problem for women on the island -- delivering the baby was. As for her saying that the bomb's detonation set up an alternate reality for the Losties, I take issue with this for 2 reasons: 1) Carrying on in an alternate reality doesn't necessarily qualify as a plan that "worked" if the here-and-now Sawyer & Co. have no knowledge of it and still have to deal with life on the Island. And 2) Juliet told Sawyer that she had something important to tell him BEFORE she died -- she couldn't have glimpsed the alternate reality while she was still alive. Just because the revelation of the message came after her death doesn't mean that's what she was going to tell him. Besides, remember that Juliet was surprised to learn that the bomb hadn't worked when Sawyer found her.

                                                                                  - Some others on here have referenced the biblical imagery of the season's Last Supper promo poster and the red waters in the temple. Along those same lines, did anyone else pick up on the Christ-like way Sayid was being carried out of the water by the New Others? Both his arms were perfectly outstretched, like the image of the crucifixion. This is especially interesting, considering his “resurrection” at the end of the episode.

                                                                                  • 6 votes
                                                                                  Reply#22 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 9:52 AM EST
                                                                                  keith.corrigan

                                                                                  I definitely, saw the Christ images when Sayid was being carried out of the water, and I guess you could call the whole water thing a "baptism" even. Between all that, the last supper image, and his resurrection" there is certainly a number of biblical images so far.

                                                                                  • 2 votes
                                                                                  #22.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:36 AM EST
                                                                                  sarah-1604552

                                                                                  I thought that too--that Sayid's arms were outstretched as Jesus' would have been on the cross.

                                                                                    #22.2 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:39 AM EST
                                                                                    Mike Johnson-1604544

                                                                                    Also, Juliet never said that "it worked". Steve posed the question that way and everybody has been talking like she said it, but we should be clear -- Juliet was buried in the ground. All we have is miles claim that she said it.

                                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                                    #22.3 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 11:17 AM EST
                                                                                    cckp72

                                                                                    Juliet had changed her mind about detonating the bomb in the S6 finale because she felt threatened by Sawyer's supposed continued love for Kate. From my understanding, she wanted to erase the relationship with Sawyer to avoid having her heart broken.

                                                                                    I believe that "it worked" signifies that detonating the bomb and her subsequent death meant that she would never have to have that broken heart.

                                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                                    #22.4 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:56 PM EST
                                                                                    RadleyIsMyConstant

                                                                                    I'm liking the comment that someone else posted on here ... that Juliet's "It worked" references the Nemesis finding a loophole and killing Jacob. I tend to agree with ranturn's post, above, that Juliet's always known more about the Island than she's let on.

                                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                                    #22.5 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 1:08 PM EST
                                                                                    TexanForObama

                                                                                    Re: Sayid and 'christlike' imagery - I thought the same thing! What if that was to cleanse him of the 'sins' he performed as a torturer? He certainly felt that his life was filled with terrible deeds and even pondered what would happen to him when he died... But then I also thought that it was Jacob who 'resurrected' in Sayid's body in the end. Perhaps he had to be 'cleansed' before Jacob could enter? Hmmm... :-)

                                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                                    #22.6 - Sat Feb 6, 2010 1:16 PM EST
                                                                                    say what??

                                                                                    Perhaps he had to be 'cleansed' before Jacob could enter?

                                                                                    It would be ironic that Sayid, with his background before Jacob touched him and his life afterward as Ben's hit man, would be cleansed by the waters and thereby regain his innocence, while Ben, a young child raised by an abusive father, would lose his innocence if they saved him (Richard said he will lose his innocence, he will always be one of us, and he won't remember being saved). Jacob knew Sayid's background when he touched him, and Nadia was killed at that moment - that would be a cleansing event, losing the love of his life after finding her and living happily with her for a year. And with everything else Jacob knows, he had to know about Sayid's future as Ben's hit man. So I'm not so sure the water was for cleansing, but the Christ-like images do suggest forgiveness. JMO

                                                                                    • 2 votes
                                                                                    #22.7 - Sat Feb 6, 2010 1:54 PM EST
                                                                                    Reply
                                                                                    Lost in Space and Time

                                                                                    I am so glad to be back among all you wonderful people. It was a long 8 months.

                                                                                    First my impressions then a SPOILER ALERT:

                                                                                    I really don't have much else to add to the questions this week, except for the "chains" the Nemesis was referring to: I think that the Black Rock was a prison ship set for Australia (remember Australia was originally a prison colony for Britain), and that Richard arrived on the island in chains (not saying he was a prisoner, just that the Black Rock was a prison ship). I do also think Nemesis was being figurative in inferring that Richard exchanged one set of chains for another (he is chained to the island, the leaders of the others, and service to the game between Jacob and Nemesis).

                                                                                    Now a SPOILER***********************************************************

                                                                                    In an interview last evening Carlton and Damon said that they are not using an alternate reality plot line - alternate reality would mean that one reality is real and one is not. The stories off island are flash-sideways - showing how their lives would inter-weave anyway. It illustrates that Jack didn't think past his own needs/desires in "resetting" time. It is significant that others were not on the plane in the reset (Ecko, Libby, Shannon, etc....). Also, the flash-sideways story line is independent of the island story, so it's not like the flashbacks where there were clues. They said that the two stories would converge, they didn't say when, but they did hint that it would not take the entire season to merge the stories.

                                                                                    • 4 votes
                                                                                    Reply#23 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:02 AM EST
                                                                                    keith.corrigan

                                                                                    not on the plane in the reset (Ecko, Libby, Shannon, etc....).

                                                                                    Ana Lucia.....

                                                                                      #23.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:49 AM EST
                                                                                      Lo2013

                                                                                      Careful with that guys. Just because we didn't see any of the Tailies except Bernard, doesn't mean they weren't on the plane. And we only saw Bernard because the plane didn't crash and he made it back to his seat. For the non-Tailies, the only change was Shannon (again, don't think they could get the actress) and Des.

                                                                                      I strongly suspect we'll see some Tailies again (except maybe Libby because that actress seems to be a bitter woman).

                                                                                      • 2 votes
                                                                                      #23.2 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 11:59 AM EST
                                                                                      blackwidow1

                                                                                      Lost in Space

                                                                                      The idea of sideways flashes makes perfect sense! Thanks for catching that. That explain the same time timeline. Heck, Steve even titled this article "a glimpse into what could have been." (Smacks self over top the head!)

                                                                                      And the idea of the X being a variable in LA X makes even more sense with this "could be" storyline. Depending what/who we put in for the X will see a different character perspective - the consequences of the unique variable.

                                                                                      Wow! Thanks for pointing this out.

                                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                                      #23.3 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:19 PM EST
                                                                                      mls95

                                                                                      I really want to know why we saw some characters on the plane and not others. I have to believe that there is a reason for this, but I can't seem to figure it out. There were others besides the Tailies that we did not see. What about Michael and Walt? Also, we saw Claire at the end in the cab, but not on the plane. This has to be significant. Why show everyone else that we saw and not them.

                                                                                      • 1 vote
                                                                                      #23.4 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 1:58 PM EST
                                                                                      Shaun Guidolin

                                                                                      Let's not forget this is Episode 1 & 2 ... there is a lot left to come, and one thing we know about Lost, things don't always make sense :)

                                                                                        #23.5 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 3:43 PM EST
                                                                                        lostin2009

                                                                                        really getting into the idea that when jack et al jumped to 2007, they made a jump past the 2004 flight to be on the island (maybe just after a new explosion of the swan), the flash(somewheres) are really flashbacks to the new 2004 timeline in which first they do not crash and therefore the plan worked and two jacob has already started putting in motion the situations needed to get the losties back on a plane over the island in order for the timelines to connect at somepoint, by getting the losties back to the island there can then be a connection of the two timelines

                                                                                        Juliet died solely because the new 2004 timeline put her somewhere else in 2007 and there was a brief time of switching back and forth between the two 2007 places (or even better between 2007 and the future, maybe 2010) that she went from "being disappointed that the plan did not work and wanting to tell sawyer of the pregnancy" to "telling sawyer they could have coffee, go dutch, and oh yeah, that the 77 plan worked"

                                                                                        and all of this is really needed because jacob needs these losties on the island in the 2007 temple to fend off smoky, this would mean the faraday plan went against jacobs plans and jacob does the "course correcting" to prove his point to smoky...wearing down must stop now...but do remember something like jacob:"even though the game always ends the same with each try comes progress"

                                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                                        #23.6 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 4:27 PM EST
                                                                                        Shredder6Deleted
                                                                                        Reply
                                                                                        littlemama

                                                                                        okay...i'm writing this before i read most of the comments so forgive me if i repeat some things....

                                                                                        wow....last night's episode keeps running through my head....i'll give the questions a shot though....

                                                                                        Why are the Losties both on the Island and off of it? - alternate realities...i'm anxious to see how the two get reconciled

                                                                                        What did Juliet mean by "it worked"? - i honestly thought she would tell sawyer she was pregnant but i guess she means the bomb...i never liked their relationship much but it seemed more genuine than sawyer/kate or jack/kate....

                                                                                        What does Nemesis need to talk to Richard about? hmmm....the fact that he is no longer needed as a servant to jacob....

                                                                                        What happened to Desmond on the plane? this one i am clueless about..i'm hoping we get some more info on what happened before they boarded the plane..why was desmond there? why did hurley think he's so lucky? why didn't shannon get on the plane with boone?

                                                                                        Where is Christian's coffin? lost with Locke's knives....i'm guessing it has something to do with how the realities come together

                                                                                        Who are the people in the Temple? the Others...true natives of the island....

                                                                                        What is the significance of the Temple's water not being clear? the healing property is gone...or dulled...if this represented jacob's death then they would not have been surprised by hurley's announcement....

                                                                                        What was the purpose of the firework flare? jacob had been defeated and the nemesis was coming....

                                                                                        Where is the Nemesis' home that he wants to go to? either the temple or off the island

                                                                                        What chains was Nemesis referring to? i think richard served jacob out of free will...jacob never forced anyone to follow him or do his bidding, it was always their choice. but i think the nemesis never understood it that way. he thinks that richard served jacob b/c he HAD to, not b/c he chose to....

                                                                                        Why is Nemesis disappointed in the people on the beach? no clue...

                                                                                        Where is Nemesis taking Richard? the temple...

                                                                                        What did the Temple leader want to talk to Jack about? whatever was on the list that they read....or something jacob had told them before about jack

                                                                                        How did Sayid come to life again? dirty water....

                                                                                        okay...so my guesses aren't real great and i'll probably think of some more stuff after i chew on this episode for a while...

                                                                                        when i was watching the scenes on the plane and LA i was almost moved to tears to see my beloved Losties going about life normally...never on the island...maybe that's just me...and to see their interactions after the plane landed (i never get enough of sawyer's dimples) was great....

                                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                                        Reply#24 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:09 AM EST
                                                                                        Lost_n_Texas
                                                                                        • Why are the Losties both on the Island and off of it? As most people have already noted, and I agree...mostly..that there is a dual split in time where the players on the island keep on churning, while the "airplane" players started moving towards meeting one another just like if they had crashed. I do believe over time we will see the off-island group become closer and closer, with an eventual tie-in with Jack going on a quest to search for the lost coffin and somehow someway the entire off-island group will go with him. Hey it's Lost, give me a break.
                                                                                        • What did Juliet mean by "it worked"? I'm much more inclined to believe she simply meant the bomb detonation worked, not being knocked up. With her new starring role in another series she will be very limited in recurring appearances so no reason to keep that fire burning bright.
                                                                                        • What does Nemesis need to talk to Richard about? I'm thinking this is not as cut and dry as others regarding the conversation. More later.
                                                                                        • What happened to Desmond on the plane? I think this will pan out over the next few weeks as in crucial clue in the overall grand scheme of this season.
                                                                                        • Where is Christian's coffin? Duh, we went to Disneyland.
                                                                                        • Who are the people in the Temple? This is in line with the question about Richard/Nemesis, more later.
                                                                                        • What is the significance of the Temple's water not being clear? As others have already postulated I agree it has something to do with the islands balance being off. I am NOT sure it's due solely based on Jacob's "death" because as I will recap later I'm still not sold on Jacob being a "good" guy.
                                                                                        • What was the purpose of the firework flare? I'm in general agreement that it was a warning to Richard/Others
                                                                                        • Where is the Nemesis' home that he wants to go to? More later
                                                                                        • What chains was Nemesis referring to? More later
                                                                                        • Why is Nemesis disappointed in the people on the beach? More later ( I sound redundant)
                                                                                        • Where is Nemesis taking Richard? Temple, although the $1 menu at Arby's is not a bad idea
                                                                                        • What did the Temple leader want to talk to Jack about? good question, not sure
                                                                                        • How did Sayid come to life again? NOT 100% sure this is Jacob, but since I have no clue otherwise I'll go with that.

                                                                                        VERY surprised Steve and all the posters thus far have not made reference to the Ankh. I mean come on, with all the ancient Egypt crap we've had going back and forth theory wise I would have assumed someone would have tried folding that in the mix. I've read extensively concerning the ancient battles between Horus and Set, trying to find a complete match...it's not there that I can discern. However, I am still of a mind that obviously Jacob and Nemesis are a balance of forces such as Chaos and Order that are dependent upon one another just as much as they strive against one another. The Oceanic players are simply pawns in a long span battle between these two sides. I am inclined to toss this into the ring. What do we truly know about the Black Rock? Sure its a ship stuck on the island a long time ago...or is it? Perhaps that's what the island/oceanic people SEE, but not what it actually is. Maybe the "others" at the Temple are really the crew from this ship from a LONG way away...read into other world..with Jacob and or Nemesis as their old leader...hey, I'm making this up as I go run with me here..

                                                                                        • 3 votes
                                                                                        Reply#25 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 10:11 AM EST
                                                                                        LostinToronto

                                                                                        I agree that it's a game between Jacob and Nemesis...it will be interesting to see how it plays out if Sayid really is Jacob.

                                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                                        #25.1 - Wed Feb 3, 2010 12:52 PM EST
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