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LOST: "Dr. Linus" Realizes What's Important

Tue Mar 9, 2010 10:27 PM EST
By Steve Watts

Live Poll

What did you think of tonight's episode?

View Results
  • 86484
    Fantastic
    62%
  • 86485
    Pretty good
    29%
  • 86486
    Mediocre
    8%
  • 86487
    Terrible
    1%

VoteTotal Votes: 297

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Ben contemplates the decisions that have driven his life, while his alternate self comes to a hard decision regarding how much importance he places on power.

Note: "Lost in the Vines" is made for discussion of the series "Lost" on ABC. As such, here be spoilers! We talk frankly about the events of the night, speculate about future events, and so on. Read no further if you don't want spoilers.

The Big Reveal: People that Jacob has "touched" are given the gift of immortality; Ben has been accepted by Jacob's followers despite his crimes, and refused to follow Nemesis.

Summary

Ben runs through the jungle, then tripping and falling. He sees the fires of Ilana's party and runs to them. She asks where Sayid is, and Ben tells them he killed Dogen and Lennon. Ben suggests they go to the beach so they'll be on familiar ground, and Ilana agrees.

Ben teaches his students about the history of Elba, telling them Napoleon was there as Emperor but without any power it was meaningless. The bell rings and he tells them chapters 5 and 6 are due tomorrow. Principal Reynolds enters and tells him to walk with him. Reynolds tells him they need him to help with detention duty, but Ben argues that he's needed in History Club. Reynolds tells him he's the one who needs the club to feel needed, but now "Mr. Linus" is needed in detention. As Reynolds walks away, Ben says it's Dr. Linus.

Ben sits with Artz in the teacher's lounge, who's lamenting his ruined shirt and old equipment. Ben tells him Reynolds is an administrator and has forgotten that public school is about taking care of the kids. Artz is cynical, but Ben says he refuses to give up. From across the table, Locke suggests that Ben should be the principal because he cares. Ben asks who would listen to him. Locke says he's listening.

Miles asks Ben what the Smoke Monster was, and Ben says that thing is what killed their friends at the statue. Ilana asks, and Jacob? Ben reluctantly agrees. Ilana asks if Miles can speak to the dead, and he says he needs something from their body. She hands him the bag of ashes and tells him it's what's left of Jacob's body. So, she asks, how did he die? Miles communes with the bag and tells her that Ben killed him. Ben protests, and Ilana asks if it's true. Miles assures her it is. Ilana says thank you, and mentions that Jacob was the closest thing she had to a father. They continue their trip into the woods.

----------------

Ilana leads the others to the beach, and tells them she's going to find tools to work on shelter. She tells the others to work on starting a fire. Ben asks if there's anything she'd like him to do, but she ignores him. She tries to convince him that Miles is unreliable and tried to blackmail him once, but she walks away.

Ben takes an instant meal out of his microwave and gives it to his father, Roger. He says it's organic and he's trying to keep him healthy. Roger asks how work was, and Ben says he has a doctorate in European history and he's babysitting detention. He says the worst part is how he can't help thinking that he's more a loser than any of the kids in detention. His father tells him he wanted more for him, and that's why he signed up for the DHARMA Initiative. He says to imagine how their lives would've been if they had stayed. He says, who knows what Ben could've become.

The doorbell rings, and Ben goes to see Alex. She asks where he was and says they had to cancel History Club. He tells her about his detention duty. She says the AP test was on Friday and she was counting on the tutoring. He tells her he'll tutor her tomorrow morning in the library. She says he's the best, and he tells her it's his pleasure.

Ilana works on the shelter, and Sun asks how long they'll stay here. She says she doesn't know, but Sun insists on finding her husband. Ilana says she wants to find him too, but she can't yet. Sun asks what she means, and Ilana explains that her name is Kwon, so she's supposed to protect one or both of them. Sun asks what that means, and Ilana tells her that they're candidates to replace Jacob. She says there are only six candidates left.

Jack wakes up Hurley in a thicket. He says they can make the Temple by nightfall, and suggests they hurry and eat on the way. Hurley says maybe they should take their time, but is too vague on why. Jack starts to leave and Hurley follows. He tries to direct him off to the side, but Jack doesn't fall for it. Richard appears from the woods and says they're both wrong, and the Temple is off in a totally different direction. Jack asks where he came from, and Richard says he can't say yet. He says if they want to get to the Temple, to follow him. Hurley asks if Jack trusts him, and he says at least Richard isn't stalling.

Ben rummages through at tent and finds a bottle of water from Oceanic. Ben talks about the plane crash and Frank observes he sounds nostalgic. Frank tells him he was supposed to have flown it, and mentions how different life would've been. Ben says it wouldn't have been that different, since the Island still got him in the end. Ilana holds a gun to Ben's neck and tells him to walk.

She leads him to a clearing out near the graves. He starts to tell her she doesn't have to do this, but she makes him lay down on the ground. She attaches a harness to his leg, and tells him to dig a grave. He asks for who, and she says it's for him.

----------------

Ben quizzes Alex on history. She gets frustrated with a question, and he assures her it's only a test. She says it's her entire life; her mom works two jobs, so she needs a scholarship to pay for Yale, if she can even get in. He assures her she's bright and he's not worried about her. He offers a letter of recommendation, and she says she needs someone who went there. But she only knows the pervert Reynolds. He asks what she meant, and she says to forget it. He presses, and she asks him to promise to keep it between them. He promises and she says she fell asleep in the nurse's office a few months ago. She says the principal and the nurse were having sex in the room right next to her. She asks again if he's going to tell anyone, and he says no, a promise is a promise.

Ben digs his grave as Ilana watches. Miles observes he's not tearing it up, and Ben says he's not in a hurry. Miles says he brought food, and Ben says he's not hungry. Miles starts to walk away. Ben mentions that he can still get Miles the millions of dollars he wanted. Miles asks why he'd do that when Nikki and Paulo are buried there and left diamonds behind. Ben lashes out, saying Ilana is going to murder him for killing a man who didn't even care. Miles says, no, Jacob cared. He says Jacob hoped he was wrong about Ben, but he guesses he was right. Ilana fires a warning shot and orders Ben to continue to dig.

Hurley asks Richard if he's a time traveler, and asks why he looks the same as he did 50 years ago. Richard says it's not easy to explain, and that Jacob gave him a gift. Hurley asks what he knows about him. Richard says he knows he's dead, and they come to the Black Rock. Hurley says he thought they were going to the Temple. Richard says he lied, because everyone at the Temple is dead. Jack asks what he means. Richard says he doesn't know what happened but he just came from there and there were no survivors. Jack asks about Sayid and Kate, and Richard says they weren't there, so maybe they made it out alive. Richard says whatever he was looking for it's not there. Jack observes that Hurley was avoiding going, and Hurley says Jacob hinted at it. Richard asks if Hurley spoke to Jacob. Hurley says yes, and Richard tells him whatever Jacob said, don't believe it. Richard starts to leave, and says he needs to do something. Jack asks what, and Richard tells him: die.

----------------

Artz grades tests and Ben comes in, asking if he has a minute. He asks if Artz is good with computers, and if he could hypothetically access an e-mail account. Artz says it depends on the faculty member. Ben tells him, the nurse. He says he's curious about some of her correspondence. Artz asks, with whom? Ben stays quiet, and Artz starts to walk away. Ben tells him he has reason to believe she might be engaged in an inappropriate personal relationship with Principal Reynolds. Artz says he's going after the big job. Ben asks if he's going to help him or not. Artz says he wants a good parking spot, more aprons, and better lab equipment. Ben tells him it's a deal. Artz says Ben is a real killer.

Ben continues to dig his grave.

Richard looks through the remains of the Black Rock. Jack comes in with a lantern and asks if he's been here before. Richard says yes, and after all the time he's spent on this Island this is the first time he's come back. Hurley comes in and finds the two, and Richard opens up one of the crates of dynamite. He puts one stick in his pocket, and Hurley says Artz made the same mistake. Hurley says he's grabbing dynamite and wants to kill himself. Richard says he can't kill himself, that's why he wants them to do it for him. Jacob touched him, and it's supposed to be a gift, but it's actually a curse. He drops a stick and Hurley shouts with fear. Jack asks why Richard wants to die. He says he's devoted his life in service of a man who told him everything was happening for a reason and he had a plan. He says Jacob was supposed to share the plan when the time was right, but now he's gone. He says he wants to die because his purpose in life is gone. He says if he lights the stick it won't work, but Jack can light it for him and they can still get out in time. Hurley protests, but Jack takes the lantern and lights the stick. As the wick burns, Jack sits and says, now, let's talk.

----------------

Hurley urges Jack to go, but Jack says he needs to talk to Richard. Hurley decides to run, and Richard says Jack should go with him. Richard says he's going to die, and Jack says neither of them are going to die. He tells him about Jacob's lighthouse, and that Jacob wanted him to know that he was being watched since he was a kid. He says that if Jacob went through that much trouble, he brought him here for a reason, and that wasn't to blow up sitting here. Richard says that's a pretty big risk, and what if he's wrong? Jack says, he's not. The wick burns down, and dissipates. Jack laughs and asks if Richard wants to try another stick. Richard says he seems to have all the answers, so now what? Jack says, they go back to where they started.

Ben hears the sound of the Smoke Monster and peaks up from his grave. Nemesis greets him, and Ben asks what he's doing here. Nemesis says visiting, and asks what he's doing. Ben says he's digging his own grave because he talked him into killing Jacob. He says Ilana was Jacob's bodyguard and now she's going to kill him, so he got what he wanted. Nemesis says he doesn't want Ben to die, he went back to the statue to get him but he was gone. Ben says, for what? Nemesis says, he's getting ready to leave the Island for good, but someone needs to be in charge of the Island. He says he can't think of anyone better. Ben protests, but his shackle comes off. Nemesis tells him to go to the Hydra to meet with them, and gives him advice on where and how to ambush Ilana to make his escape. He tells him not to hesitate, because she won't. Nemesis leaves. Ben considers for a moment, then runs.

Reynolds sits in his office, surprised by Ben coming in. Ben says he has something to read. Reynolds looks at the e-mails and freezes. Ben says the acts described in those e-mails took place on school property and would be frowned upon by the school board and Reynolds' own wife. He says Reynolds is going to retire for whatever reason, and recommend Ben for the position of principal. He says they hold Reynolds in such esteem that he'll get the job. Reynolds says he wants Ben to read an e-mail too. Ben reads the e-mail about Alex asking for a recommendation letter. He says those work both ways, so he puts the ball back in Ben's court. He says if Ben takes the job, he will torch Alex. He asks if his job is that important to him. He asks what it will be, Dr. Linus?

Ben finds a gun where Nemesis specified, and holds it to Ilana. He has her drop her gun, and she does. She asks what he's waiting for. He says he wants to explain, that he knows what she's feeling. He says he watched his daughter die in front of him, and it was his fault. He says he had a chance to save her, but he chose the Island over her for Jacob. He says he sacrificed everything for Jacob, and he didn't care. He says when he stabbed Jacob, he was angry and terrified that he was going to lose the only thing that mattered to him, his power. But the thing that really mattered was gone. He says he's sorry he killed Jacob, and he doesn't expect forgiveness because he can't forgive himself. She asks what he wants. He says he just wants to leave. She asks where he'll go, and he says to "Locke," because he's the only one that will have him. Ilana says she'll have him. She takes her gun and turns her back on him and walks away. He follows.

----------------

Ben walks into the principal's office, and Alex knocks and enters. She says she was just coming by to thank Reynolds for his letter of recommendation. She asks if he had anything to do with it, and Ben says she's always been a great student. Reynolds enters and asks what he's doing in his office. Ben says he's just dropping off some forms, and tells Alex he'll see her in History Club. She asks when it's going to come back, and he says they got their old slot back, since Reynolds found someone to cover detention for him. He says he'll see Alex at 4.

Artz catches up with him outside and asks if he did it. Ben says no. Artz complains about his parking space, and Ben says he can have his. He looks at Alex as she exits the office.

Ben follows Ilana back to the beach camp. He sees Sun and puts down the gun he was carrying. He asks if she needs a hand, and she asks him to help her with the tarp. He does as Frank builds a fire. Miles finds Nikki and Paulo's stash of diamonds. Ilana cries holding Jacob's ashes. Hurley, Richard, and Jack come from behind some bushes to join the camp. Sun hugs Hurley, then Jack. They all greet each other. Jack regards Ben, standing alone at the edge of the crowd.

In the water, a submarine raises its periscope to look at the crowd on the beach. The periscope man tells Widmore there are people on the beach, and asks if they should stop. No, Widmore says, proceed as planned.

Cut to LOST

The Big Questions:

  • What happened at DHARMA to make Roger and Ben Linus leave?
  • Who are the six remaining candidates?
  • What purpose does Jacob have for Jack?
  • Why did Nemesis promise Ben control of the Island?
  • What is Widmore's plan? Who's side is he on?

Lost in the Vines Trivia Question:

In the flash sideways timeline, Ben worked at the same high school as Leslie Arzt. In the original timeline, what was Arzt doing in Australia?

This Week in Original Articles:

Once again those who write original articles this year will be entered (once per week) in this year's contest. Contributing original articles or being the first to answer the trivia questions are the ways to be entered, so feel free to write!

  • 'Lost' theory: Is Jacob related to the Man In Black? (Michael Sautter)

Next, on Lost: Coming soon!

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

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  • Public Discussion (405)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3 4
Syntactic Tree

I've noticed, as we get closer to the end, "The Big Questions" get fewer in number! ;)

  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 10:29 PM EST
Bordsox-999133

Yet they did not really outright answer any questions. We can infer that Richard got to the island on the Black Rock but under what capacity?

  • 4 votes
#1.1 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 10:38 PM EST
Syntactic Tree
  • What purpose does Jacob have for Jack?
  • Why did Nemesis promise Ben control of the Island?
  • Rarely do I take a shot at the questions, but this time I thought perhaps Jacob and Nemesis were selecting a replacement. If the island must always have its "good" and "bad," it appears Jacob chose Jack, while Nemesis thought he had his candidate in Ben. As the ending suggests, Ben has been "cured" of whatever ailed him, and is now - fortunately - one of the good guys. Which makes me happy, because his life in the alternative universe touched me.

    Question: Where the hell did we last see Jin?!

    As far as Widmore is concerned... no clue. But, speaking of his genealogical tree: where are Desmond and Penny?!

    • 6 votes
    #1.2 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 10:38 PM EST
    Steve Watts

    Yet they did not really outright answer any questions.

    Hm, not outright, but about as close as Lost tends to get. We can infer that Jacob's touch is what grants immortality, both in protection from death and unnaturally long life. It might also be what kept the Oceanic 815 survivors alive, and Richard all but said it's what's keeping him alive. That's a pretty big mystery there, and it was more or less solved.

    • 7 votes
    #1.3 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 10:40 PM EST
    BlackRock Steve

    Yet they did not really outright answer any questions.

    Hm, not outright, but about as close as Lost tends to get.

    My Jeers: Not sure if anyone watched the "Enhanced" repeat of last week's "Sundown", but once again, Enhanced it ain't!...They could do so much more to answer some questions if they did decent annotated comments; that fact that they deliberately don't continues to make me highly frustrated...I expected more for being Season 6 and "The End" and instead feel that they continue to make it as convoluted as possible....Just wondering if anyone else feels the same way?

    My Cheers: The acting of all this season, but mostly the incredible acting of Terry O'Q. and Michael Emerson. To see the "evil incarnate" expressions and mannerisms of Nem/Locke on the island and then the smiling supportive hand-raising "I will" to Dr. Linus in the Alt-Verse is just a kick...and Emerson as a dedicated history teacher and his redemptive moment speaks for itself!

    • 9 votes
    #1.4 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:15 PM EST
    Herbcules74

    I think they answered why Ilana took Jacob's ashes. She knew about Miles' gift and she wanted to know what Jacob's last thoughts were. She took the ashes for Miles.

    • 2 votes
    #1.5 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:26 PM EST
    pinkcap

    Black Rock Steve

    I think we would appreciate the enhanced episodes more if we didn't visit this site. After reading all of the posts, I already know what they'll tell us. I do like to watch it for confirmation on things we have discussed, but don't know for certain.

    I do agree with you about the talented Mr. Emerson.

    • 3 votes
    #1.6 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:03 AM EST
    Dame Quixote

    I like that Richard is back. I like that questions about Richard are being answered. That being said. I still feel like some of these flash sideways moments are creating more questions. I hope to see more answers soon.

    • 2 votes
    #1.7 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:09 AM EST
    eriq samson

    1) Richard looked at the shackles and fondled them - either he was in them at some point or someone he cared about was

    2) NO; It is not established that Jacob's touch grants immortality = just his touch to Richard did; his touch gives everyone "a" gift. If it granted everyone immortality what happened to the last "Protector" and the translator? (someone pointed out on the LOST page forums that it isn't immortality, Richard wanted to die; they just can not kill themselves and Nemesis has to play by certain rules)

    The big question is who will be the new protector - we have seen Jack in the flash sideways universe, and Hurley, and Locke, And Jin and his wife - we haven't seen Sawyer and Kate - why not two lovers? What about Claire's son?

    Widmore is distraction IMHO; the next question is who is the child who reminded Nemesis that there are rules? A younger Jacob? Claire's son? Why is he called "Golden Boy"?

    • 2 votes
    #1.8 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:01 PM EST
    eriq samson

    Someone reminded me below - miles has a gift - speaking to the dead; not immortality

    • 2 votes
    #1.9 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:16 PM EST
    SilentShogun

    Richard was in shackles i guess....remember when nemesis/locke seen him he said " Hi..nice to see you out of your chains" Or something like that

    • 1 vote
    #1.10 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:47 PM EST
    minklady

    Syntactic Tree - the last tme we saw Jin was at Claire's Rouseau-esque encampment. She had bandaged his ankle after he was caught in the beartrap, and she had killed Justin. I guess he was left behind when she and Locke went to the temple.

      #1.11 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:57 PM EST
      Reply
      scrambledeggs

      can i just confess in the privacy of this group that i cried like a baby by the time Ben said that Locke was the only one who will have him

      • 11 votes
      #2 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 10:32 PM EST
      Bordsox-999133

      Dude, whenever Emerson is on screen you feel something for him...It was kinda nice to feel pitty for him instead of outright hate, you almost start to like him. That man is an incredable actor.

      • 4 votes
      #2.1 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 10:36 PM EST
      Syntactic Tree

      Michael Emerson is an incredible actor. His role as a serial killer on "The Practice" amazed me.

      • 3 votes
      #2.2 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 10:40 PM EST
      ranturn

      And when Ilana said, "I'll have you," my opinion changed of him right there and then. Here was a lost and distraught man who I think finally realized what his power and lies had cost him. And it was pitiful watching him on the beach when Hurley and Jack came up to hug Sun. Did you catch the look Jack gave Ben and the distance between them? In that moment, I felt like he was all alone. I agree with Syntactic Tree, he is an incredible actor.

      The greatest surprise was that he didn't follow Locke, but followed Ilana.

      • 11 votes
      #2.3 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 10:45 PM EST
      pinkcap

      I have to agree about Michael Emerson's abilities as an actor. It truly is a gift when someone can make you hate and love a character.

      • 5 votes
      #2.4 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:49 PM EST
      The.Good.Foot

      I agree. Seeing the expression on Michael Emerson's face as he was telling her that Locke is the only one that'll have him was pretty powerful.

      And yes yes yes, when he was on the beach at the semi reunion you just felt like he was the kid picked last for soccer and it was just crushing him right there. But Michael Emerson... BRAVO!

      • 6 votes
      #2.5 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:02 AM EST
      robinm85

      Hey scrambled eggs, I almost cried, too. It was an extremely touching moment and when Ilana said she would have him, I think he finally learned the value of forgiveness.

      • 2 votes
      #2.6 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:00 AM EST
      JohnBoy813

      This kind of bodes to the fact that Jacob is the good guy, as Ilana forgave him of his 'sin' of killing Jacob. If she was on the side of evil I don't think that she would have forgiven him.

      • 5 votes
      #2.7 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:25 AM EST
      Jekazu

      Michael Emerson is an incredible actor. His role as a serial killer on "The Practice" amazed me.

      He was so wonderful on The Practice. He was down right scary in that role! When he appeared as "Henry Gale" on LOST I was a little freaked out.

      I also teared up during that part and even more when Ilana said she'd have him. The look on his face was just so touching.

      • 3 votes
      #2.8 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:47 AM EST
      Pfemm

      I also cried... and just like Jekazu... I cried even more when Ilana said that...

      Another Brilliant performance from Michael Emerson

      • 2 votes
      #2.9 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:58 AM EST
      Sabastian Palpatine

      Ok you Emo's need someone to inject some tough masculinity into this discussion.....oh who am I kidding...I cried like a pre-school girl who had her jello cup slapped away by the class room bully :(

      Michael Emerson's acting skills are powerfull. He can evoke emotions with facial expressions and body language alone.

      Actually kudos to the acting as well as the writing. Seeing Ben's story arc from childhood to "Dr. Linus" made last nights episode that much more powerful. I actually thought that the flash sideways interactions between Ben and Alex were just as touching. And what do you know, Ben loves (and nurses his ailing father) in universe X. This is good stuff ;)

      • 8 votes
      #2.10 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:43 PM EST
      eriq samson

      Did you notice the irony of Napoleon on ELBA in his class lecture; or were they trying to tell us something?

      That he did the right thing and protected his student while on the island it was his daughter's death (with the same name) that caused him to go to the island?

      • 1 vote
      #2.11 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:10 PM EST
      T Bourlon

      "That he did the right thing and protected his student while on the island it was his daughter's death (with the same name) that caused him to go to the island?"

      Not just the same name, same actress. That was a nice touch.

      • 1 vote
      #2.12 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:19 PM EST
      Katy-253048

      I was reading info on another site and read that the writers had said that we will find out what the island is, and that it's a 4-letter word.

      Elba, perhaps?

      • 1 vote
      #2.13 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:08 PM EST
      pinkcap

      Kathy

      Someone mentioned that a couple of weeks ago, but the word does not have the vowels a or e in it. It may only have one vowel in it, but that's not clear. I think the wording was you may buy one vowel. My guess was soul of the world or, if there's only one vowel, womb.

      • 1 vote
      #2.14 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:41 PM EST
      Reply
      mearth1961

      Eggs....I got kerphlemked myself! Whudda thunk I'd ever develop a softspot for Benry! I'm actually cheering for him to be redeemed!

      • 5 votes
      Reply#3 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 10:37 PM EST
      MegnMacLean

      I found this episode to be very powerful. The theme of forgiveness and redemption was stirring. I'm looking forward to seeing Ben's journey through the rest of this season.

      • 6 votes
      #3.1 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:07 AM EST
      OnlyChild

      I think Ben's turning point came when Miles told him that Jacob had faith in him right to the end. He knew that Nemesis had lied to him and that he(Ben) had failed Jacob. He is ashamed. Miles' special gift pays off in a crucial way. In the sideways flash, John Locke had faith in him, too.

      • 9 votes
      #3.2 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:31 PM EST
      scrambledeggs

      only child - if i couldve voted your comment twice, i would have - great point

      • 1 vote
      #3.3 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:00 PM EST
      Reply
      jen-793050

      Great episode!!!! Ben acting in a selfless manner in both time lines.

      • 5 votes
      Reply#4 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 10:37 PM EST
      Steve Watts

      I hate to sound easy to please after everyone apparently hated last week's episode, but I really liked this one. It was a nice redemption story, years in the making. Ben has been one of the best TV villains of all time, and this season we've really seen him collapse on himself. His reckoning with Ilana was really a breakthrough moment. Even at the end, when he was standing on the beach by himself, it seemed a little sad that he still felt isolated from the others due to the choices he's made.

      What happened at DHARMA to make Roger and Ben Linus leave?

      This question has my brain tying in knots. We know they were there in 1977, when the bomb went off. So they may have been unaffected by the bomb and decided that was a good time to leave. But, Roger talked about leaving as if it was a decision, not a necessity. It seems like a bomb would be a bigger deal to him, even in his fuzzy memories.

      Alternately, in this alternate reality, flight 815 never crashed. That means Sayid never shot Ben, and circumstances surrounding them leaving could've been entirely different from the reality we know. That would mean that the alt-realities (or flash sideways, or whatever you want to call them) aren't just affecting things off the Island, but have affected the history of what took place on the Island itself as well.

      Who are the six remaining candidates?

      This is more a logistical question than anything. It seems likely that the six remaining candidates are people we already know. From the cave, we can conclude that four of them are Jack, Hurley, Sayid, and Sawyer. (Remember, as of Ilana saying this, she doesn't know Sawyer and Sayid are in Nemesis' camp). The question this really raises is, who are the other two?

      As far as I can figure, it's either both Kwons, or Kate is a candidate. Her name was in the Lighthouse, so its absence on the cave wall might not mean anything.

      What purpose does Jacob have for Jack?

      I'm getting the sneaking suspicion that Jack is becoming the new Jacob. It's not so much a magical transfer of power as someone coming into the role naturally, and he's "feeling" his way through situations in an uncharacteristic way.

      Why did Nemesis promise Ben control of the Island?

      This is more a character study question than a big mystery. I think if nothing else, it proves Nemesis is just telling people what they want to hear to get them on his side. He already assured Sawyer the Island doesn't need protecting. Then he tells Ben that he'll be the new protector? Total bull, to one or both.

      What is Widmore's plan? Who's side is he on?

      This is pure speculation at this point, but here it goes.

      Widmore told Locke that he had to return to the Island, or the "wrong side" would win the upcoming war. Locke's intentions to return to the Island resulted in Nemesis taking his form and convincing Ben to kill Jacob. So, as a wild speculative guess, I would say that's the whole point. Widmore knew (to some degree) that this was a necessary step of the plan, so he gave Locke a push in that direction. That puts him in the Nemesis camp.

      • 11 votes
      #5 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 10:38 PM EST
      BlackRock Steve

      (Remember, as of Ilana saying this, she doesn't know Sawyer and Sayid are in Nemesis' camp).

      I would slightly disagree, Steve....remember that Ben told her that Sayid just killed Dogen and Lennon...so I assume that Illana would know that he has gone to "the dark side" and is "infected"!

      • What happened at DHARMA to make Roger and Ben Linus leave? …….Roger got tired of being “just a janitor” and quit.
      • Who are the six remaining candidates?
      1. Hurley
      2. Jack
      3. Sawyer
      4. Jin Kwon
      5. Sun Kwon
      6. Kate
      • What purpose does Jacob have for Jack? ….To be his replacement, his favored candidate.
      • Why did Nemesis promise Ben control of the Island? ….Because, as Ben said, he had always placed the Island, his need for Power and being the leader above all else.
      • What is Widmore's plan? Who's side is he on? ….Widmore, as Jacob said in the Lighthouse episode, is who Jacob has called and is bringing to the island. His “plan” may be different than Jacob’s plan for him…which is Widmore’s “second”/last chance to find personal redemption.
      • 2 votes
      #5.1 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 10:55 PM EST
      Bordsox-999133

      As to Ben and Roger Linus- I think that the flash sideways reality actually goes back much further than 1977. It's almost like a paradox. If 815 never crashed then the losties were never there to go back in time to recover the bomb to counteract the incident. So therefore for the sideways reality to make sence maybe there never was an incident? Or the incident made Roger realize that maybe the island was not so safe for a child and lead to his decision to leave.
      Another thing that leads me to believe that the timeline has changes further back is the hints dropped such as Jack's son and Hurley believing that he is lucky. Going with that how did Hurley make his millions in this reality? He didn't get the numbers second hand for the lottery as we now know that the Rousseau's are in LA and the recording was never made.

      • 1 vote
      #5.2 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:00 PM EST
      Superman2001

      Alternately, in this alternate reality, flight 815 never crashed. That means Sayid never shot Ben, and circumstances surrounding them leaving could've been entirely different from the reality we know. That would mean that the alt-realities (or flash sideways, or whatever you want to call them) aren't just affecting things off the Island, but have affected the history of what took place on the Island itself as well.

      Assuming the split point is 1977 when Jughead went off, then Sayid had already shot Ben.

      • 1 vote
      #5.3 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:27 AM EST
      The.Good.Foot

      I absolutely loved seeing the submarine at the end. My wife were in Oahu at Kualoa Ranch just last year (Nov) when they were doing some filming and there was the sub by the dock at the Gardens down there ( I can't remember the name of it right now, but it's part of the tour over there.) Anyway, my wife and I have been WAITING to see the sub show up, and there it was. Excellent! I'm gonna say that Widmore is on the side of Nemesis. The easy way out would be to say that he's there to pick up FLocke, but im not buyin that either.

      Anyway, my wife and i were scouring over where they filmed and taking notes of what props were out and who was there, doing our own COLUMBO research, looking for any clues.

      Great episode though.

      • 2 votes
      #5.4 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:11 AM EST
      Shaun Guidolin

      I hate to sound easy to please after everyone apparently hated last week's episode, but I really liked this one. It was a nice redemption story, years in the making. Ben has been one of the best TV villains of all time, and this season we've really seen him collapse on himself. His reckoning with Ilana was really a breakthrough moment. Even at the end, when he was standing on the beach by himself, it seemed a little sad that he still felt isolated from the others due to the choices he's made.

      The acting is great, but I'm still not digging this season's stuff - I'm more in it now just to get to the end of it. The whole mystery of the show is just no longer pushing the story. Maybe my biggest issue are these "flashsideways" -- are they just there for irony sake, or will it matter at some point?

      What happened at DHARMA to make Roger and Ben Linus leave?

      This question has my brain tying in knots. We know they were there in 1977, when the bomb went off. So they may have been unaffected by the bomb and decided that was a good time to leave. But, Roger talked about leaving as if it was a decision, not a necessity. It seems like a bomb would be a bigger deal to him, even in his fuzzy memories.

      It was definitely a decision because he said they never should have left - that's not something you'd say if it was a bomb that made you leave.

      What purpose does Jacob have for Jack?

      I'm getting the sneaking suspicion that Jack is becoming the new Jacob. It's not so much a magical transfer of power as someone coming into the role naturally, and he's "feeling" his way through situations in an uncharacteristic way.

      I've been saying this forever - it's the only logical direction.

      What is Widmore's plan? Who's side is he on?

      Widmore told Locke that he had to return to the Island, or the "wrong side" would win the upcoming war. Locke's intentions to return to the Island resulted in Nemesis taking his form and convincing Ben to kill Jacob. So, as a wild speculative guess, I would say that's the whole point. Widmore knew (to some degree) that this was a necessary step of the plan, so he gave Locke a push in that direction. That puts him in the Nemesis camp.

      This is pure speculation at this point, but here it goes.

      Widmore has stated a few times that he wanted to protect the island - something that Nemesis has no interest in. .. so maybe he'll be the new jacob.. and Can we hope that Desmond is on that sub??

      One thing too that I just remember .. during the Ben/Widmore confrontation a season back, Widmore stated that they could kill each other - so I'm speculating this means that Jacob touched them both.

      • 3 votes
      #5.5 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:56 AM EST
      FortifiedHooligan

      Still reading over what others have said, but does anyone have an idea on why Aaron and Walt were sooooo important but have not been a part of this at all? Just feels like a loose end that might not get tied.

      • 4 votes
      #5.6 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:19 AM EST
      Jilie

      Who are the 6 remaining canidates?

      I think they are:

    • Hurley
    • Jack
    • Sawyer
    • Jin or Sun
    • Kate
    • Ben
      • 1 vote
      #5.7 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:23 AM EST
      Dame Quixote

      Who are the 6 remaining canidates?

      Jack

      Kate

      Sawyer

      Hurley

      Jin

      Sun

        #5.8 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:43 AM EST
        Steve Watts

        Assuming the split point is 1977 when Jughead went off, then Sayid had already shot Ben.

        But did he? This is why I said it's a bit of a brain-teaser.

        If Jughead went off in 1977 and prevented Oceanic 815 from crashing, that means the Losties were never on the Island. They weren't there to time-travel back to 1974, so it erases things that happened even before Jughead went off. It also alters their actions in the 1950s, when Daniel Faraday talked to his mother about the bomb in the first place. Since they were the impetus for so many Island happenings, erasing them changes quite a bit.

        • 5 votes
        #5.9 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:22 AM EST
        JohnBoy813

        I would like for Des to be on the sub, but since in this timeline he did not get along with Widmore I doubt he is there.

        • 1 vote
        #5.10 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:33 AM EST
        mls95

        I don't believe that the island was destroyed in 1977. If you think about the first episode (LA X) and how the underwater scenes of the island looked (crappy CGI not withstanding), it made me think that the island had not been underwater for a very long time. I don't believe that there would still be paint on the houses and so little corrosion of things down there if it had sunk in 1977. This leads me to believe that the island sunk later and for some other reason than Jughead (which I don't believe happened since the O815 never crashed). If this is the case, then there could be any number of reasons for Ben and his dad to leave the island at a later date that we just don't know about yet or will never know about because it is just not important. All we need to know is that they left.

        One thing that I found interesting about this episode is the fact that is was the complete opposite from last weeks. In last weeks, we saw Sayid trying to be a good person but eventually giving in to the evil in his heart. In this weeks, we see Ben trying to be a evil person but eventually giving in to the good in his heart. This leads me to believe that this is the point of the whole flash-sideways thing. To show you truly what kind of person each one of the characters are and give us some clue of what side everyone will eventually end up on in the end.

        • 6 votes
        #5.11 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:36 PM EST
        Superman2001

        But did he? This is why I said it's a bit of a brain-teaser.

        If Jughead went off in 1977 and prevented Oceanic 815 from crashing, that means the Losties were never on the Island. They weren't there to time-travel back to 1974, so it erases things that happened even before Jughead went off. It also alters their actions in the 1950s, when Daniel Faraday talked to his mother about the bomb in the first place. Since they were the impetus for so many Island happenings, erasing them changes quite a bit.

        My assumption is that the universe split time upon Jughead's detonation, so branching universe theory takes affect, but only from 1977 on. So the events that led to Jughead going off still happened, as we see the Losties on the Island in 2007, dealing with the effects of their actions.

        That would mean that the Oceanic 6 did go back, and Sayid did shoot Ben, and Jack did set Jughead off, etc. In the parallel reality, however, Oceanic 815 didn't crash because the Island is at the bottom of the Pacific.

        • 2 votes
        #5.12 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:04 PM EST
        Steve Watts

        That would mean that the Oceanic 6 did go back, and Sayid did shoot Ben, and Jack did set Jughead off, etc. In the parallel reality, however, Oceanic 815 didn't crash because the Island is at the bottom of the Pacific.

        But that's what I'm saying. In the parallel reality, Oceanic 815 didn't crash, which means that inside that self-contained reality, Sayid didn't shoot Ben, Jack didn't set of Jughead, etc. Since Oceanic 815 crashing is what caused all of that to start with, the parallel reality can't have those things happening.

        • 6 votes
        #5.13 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:59 PM EST
        eriq samson

        For those making the lists it can not be jin and sun because only one of them was on the celing; only one on the lighthouse

        Wasn't Locke part of the original list?

        • 2 votes
        #5.14 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:20 PM EST
        JaxDad

        Steve-

        I'm having trouble grasping this, though...

        As you've pointed out, because Jughead was blowed up, 815 never crashes in 2004. If they aren't there in 2004 to time travel back to 1977, then they couldn't have blowed ol' J-head up. What I'm about to say will sound so stupid...but, wouldn't the Losties blowing up Jughead in 1977 negate/make it impossible for the Losties to blow up Jughead in 1977?

        I think you're absolutely right that blowing up the bomb alters everything - even if Ben was shot by Sayid in 1977 prior to Jughead's boom-boom time, none of the Losties were ever in 1977 as they never crashed in 2004. So, while Ben and his dad were there in 1977, their lives were totally different. Also, I got the distinct impression that their leaving the island was intentional. In fact, in the flash-sideways, Roger says something along the lives of, "Could you imagine what our life would be like if we hadn't left the Island"? Here's something I totally overlooked last night - if they were pining for a better life and either 1) Jughead goes off while they're on the Island or 2) the Island sinks for some other reason....Roger and Ben aren't aware of it. It would be the equivalent of a parent saying to their kid, "I'm sorry I took you off that boat - could you imagine how much better our lives would be if we had stayed on the Titanic?"

        And please refresh my memory...we're aware that the flash-sideways occurs in 2007. However, do we have anything that definitively puts the Island in 2004, other than just communal assumption? Certainly everyone on the Island is existing at the same time...but do we know for certain it's 2004? I know there are certain clues that indicate it has to be at least 2004, but could it be...I dunno...2015?

        One other thing about Richard and Jacob's gift...he said when Jacob touches you, you get a gift. However, does that mean that everyone gets the same gift? Is a "touch" a physical one or just an encounter? The reason I ask...when did Richard get "touched"? Because he hasn't aged at all, right? But Sawyer's only encounter with Jacob was when he was a boy, yet he aged. He aged well, mind you, but he certainly got older, whereas Richard has not. And there seems to be a recurring theme about people not being able to kill themselves. Did Jacob stop the dynamite from going off because Richard is immortal and can't die or because Jack was there and Jacob still has a plan for Jack which means he can't die?

        If the latter is the case, if I were Jack, I would run off the highest cliff just to see what happens.

        Oh yeah - one other thing regarding the 6 candidates. Could Aaron be one? It's always been said he was really important to the island.

        • 4 votes
        #5.15 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:33 PM EST
        JaxDad

        Steve -

        Flip those dates around. 2004, flash sideways. 2007, island time. Too much stuff going through my brain right now.

          #5.16 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:40 PM EST
          Superman2001

          Steve:

          But that's what I'm saying. In the parallel reality, Oceanic 815 didn't crash, which means that inside that self-contained reality, Sayid didn't shoot Ben, Jack didn't set of Jughead, etc. Since Oceanic 815 crashing is what caused all of that to start with, the parallel reality can't have those things happening.

          The way I understand it in my layman's brain is that the split point is 1977. The universe course-corrected by creating this parallel reality, but the events that led to that parallel reality still happened in the original timeline, otherwise the universe wouldn't have course-corrected in the first place.

          Put it this way: When Faraday said that "whatever happened, happened," he was right. But he was also right when he said that if you create a significant enough event, that you can alter time. You can't just change the past, so all the events that we've seen still took place. But, whatever paradoxes were created with Jughead detonating and the Island being at the bottom of the Pacific were solved through the creation of a parallel timeline in which the past is different, but only from 1977 onward. I don't know how else to explain my point. Faraday was right on both counts, but he didn't understand what that meant. We're seeing the effects of the time altering event in both realities, the one that was created by Jughead going off (which wouldn't have happened had Oceanic 815 not crashed, mind you), and the one that always was. Time is still linear; we just have two lines now.

          • 3 votes
          #5.17 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:12 PM EST
          T Bourlon

          "But that's what I'm saying. In the parallel reality, Oceanic 815 didn't crash, which means that inside that self-contained reality, Sayid didn't shoot Ben, Jack didn't set of Jughead, etc. Since Oceanic 815 crashing is what caused all of that to start with, the parallel reality can't have those things happening."

          So, do you suppose that means that whats-her-name didn't shoot her son Daniel Faraday? IF that's true, then he should show up in a flashsideways episode, but not in the 2007 Island episodes - I think.

            #5.18 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:24 PM EST
            Superman2001

            He's dead on the Island, as he was shot before Jughead went off. But in the parallel timeline, it all depends on whether Eloise got off the Island or not. If she didn't, then she's at the bottom of the Pacific, pregnant with Daniel Faraday.

            And again, none of this is canon. It's just my understanding/interpretation of what we've seen so far.

            • 1 vote
            #5.19 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:27 PM EST
            Linda-674054

            If Daniel was never born because Eloise is at the bottom of the Pacific, then he never told them how to keep the bomb safe in the 50's.

              #5.20 - Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:52 PM EST
              H.Dane

              But in theory, the island didn't sink until 77, when the energy pocket went kaboom.

              And if Daniel didn't live, then she also couldn't of shot him, taken the diary, and discovered how to send the losties back to the island, to blow up the energy pocket, to sink the island. And what happened, happened, right?

                #5.21 - Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:04 PM EST
                pinkcap

                Superman is correct. Daniel said in 1977 that this was their present. They can die in their present. The past could be changed with the variable of free choice, but if you die, you're dead. In the sideways world, I'm not sure if he's dead or alive. It would depend on Eloise gettting off the island. Frankly, if someone told me they were going to detonate a bomb, I'd get off that island asap.

                • 1 vote
                #5.22 - Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:20 PM EST
                Superman2001

                Linda and H.Dane,

                What you two are describing is what's called a paradox. If you were to go back in time and kill your parents before you were conceived, you'd create a paradox, because if your parents never had you, how could you go back in time to kill them? It's impossible. That's the clearest example of a paradox that I know of.

                In the case of Faraday and Eloise, it's not clear at all, but it's the same premise. If Daniel died in 1977, then how could he go back to the 1950s and tell them to bury Jughead? And if he did die, then how could he be alive in the parallel timeline in 2004? It can all be very confusing.

                The way I understand it is that, in 1977, when Jughead went off, it created a series of paradoxes: If the Island as at the bottom of the ocean, then how could O815 crash in 2004? And then, if the plane didn't crash, then how could Jack and Co. go back in time and set off Jughead? So how do you solve the paradox? With a creation of a parallel timeline. The universe "course-corrected" by creating another timeline that branches off from the original timeline (which is explained by branching universe theory), starting in 1977. So we have two separate timelines, one in which the Island is at the bottom of the ocean and O815 never crashes, the other which we've seen for the past five years, where O815 does crash and all the other events that led to Jughead being detonated still happen.

                We see the variations pretty clearly with Ben's storyline. In 2004, he was on the Island as the leader of the Others, having executed the Purge and killed his dad 12 years before, and having a contentious relationship with his adopted daughter, Alex. But now we see him taking care of his dad, working as a school teacher and being a father figure to Alex. The main difference? He and his father left the Island before Jughead went off in 1977.

                So just because someone is dead in the first timeline doesn't mean that they are dead in the parallel timeline. If Eloise Hawking got off the Island before Jughead went off, then she and Daniel Faraday may still be alive in the parallel timeline.

                • 3 votes
                #5.23 - Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:03 PM EDT
                Reply
                Anjillina
              • What happened at DHARMA to make Roger and Ben Linus leave? Could have been anything. Maybe his wife died after they got to DHARMA. Maybe they were evacuated by someone else due to the "incident". That entire alternate reality is so far removed from any of the original timelines that anything is a possibility.
              • Who are the six remaining candidates? Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Sawyer, Locke, Jin Kwon (I don't think we've seen the last of real Locke - I think Nemesis may be surprised - and Sayid's name wasn't crossed out yet and though I think he's gone bad, he may be a double agent or something).
              • What purpose does Jacob have for Jack? He's Jacob's lead candidate. Has been for a while.
              • Why did Nemesis promise Ben control of the Island? Cause he knew that was what Ben had always wanted. Temptation of Satan all over again. He promises your heart's desire, then it's not at all what you thought it would be or worth it.
              • What is Widmore's plan? Who's side is he on? This one is still too confusing. I think he wants to destroy the island. But that doesn't really make sense since he spent all those years trying to get back there. Maybe he wants to replace Jacob? But he just doesn't have the right stuff. From seeing him as a kid on the island snapping his friend's neck to his all around selfishness and the way he's always treated Desmond - he's a bad guy.
              • Cheers - I'm glad Richard didn't just disappear. We were all right about him being from the slave ship, so that was cool. And apparently all the Losties currently have "I got touched by Jacob" power. Which means none of them will age on the island - which would be cool to see. Now, I have always thought Ben was evil with a capital E. But I really liked this episode! Some of you guys were more perceptive than me and could always see he was conflicted. I just thought he was evil but was able to play sorry when necessary to get his way. But I really liked when he got to go back with Ileana and start hanging out with the good guys. Also Cheers that Miles got some diamonds, so he'll actually have some money if he ever gets off the island. And Jack may actually be starting to believe. Lots of Cheers tonight.

                Jeers - Not a lot. I still think Walt should have been in the school somewhere. That would have been the perfect setting and he could be all tall and gangly and whatever. Wouldn't matter - it's an alternate universe.

                • 4 votes
                Reply#6 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 10:40 PM EST
                ranturn

                Angillina - I was thinking the same thing about Walt. I was expecting to see him as a student in that school and instead we got Alex knocking on Ben's door!

                I agree with you that Jack is starting to believe too. Why else would he have sat with Richard while dynamite was burning? He knew it wouldn't go off.

                • 1 vote
                #6.1 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 10:49 PM EST
                JayisunJ

                Did anyone else think that it was Walt who delivered Locke's knives in the flash sideways episode where he was at his girlfriend's house? The delivery guy is all fuzzy, but the voice sounded familiar and the guy was young and black if I remember correctly.

                • 1 vote
                #6.2 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:40 AM EST
                Anjillina

                Update to my answers from last night - I forgot Desmond. I think Desmond is definitely still a candidate. So knock out Locke from my response above because though I wish he was alive, I doubt it. Unless the LA line becomes reality. And put Desmond instead.

                • 2 votes
                #6.3 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:14 AM EST
                Psybrkymi

                JayisunJ - Couldn't be Walt as in 2004 he was still a young boy.

                • 1 vote
                #6.4 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:32 PM EST
                JayisunJ

                JayisunJ - Couldn't be Walt as in 2004 he was still a young boy.

                Was thinking of it as possibly more of a blooper or easter egg than an actual story related appearance. It probably wasn't him anyway : (

                • 2 votes
                #6.5 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:38 PM EST
                Reply
                ross christopher

                1st time poster...just thought i'd mention that the season finale is on Sunday, May 23rd, which is also the day of Pentecost...any coincidence???

                -ross

                • 11 votes
                Reply#7 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 10:53 PM EST
                Bandit-847315

                Good Show tonight. He is such a good actor, the Ben character on the island finally does the right thing. Or does he? Lots of teasing going on leading up to the Richard show. It was good to see Ben do the right thing with his daughter in the alternate timeline.

                Cheers

                Ben does the right thing, on and off of the island. Jack is realizing he has a purpose on the island.

                Jeers

                None.

                The Big Questions:

                • What happened at DHARMA to make Roger and Ben Linus leave? - This is a different timeline, a different DHARMA and a different island. His father could not adjust to the island, some sickness. The island could not cure Ben's father.
                • Who are the six remaining candidates? - Jack, Hurley, Kate, Sawyer, Jin and Sun
                • What purpose does Jacob have for Jack? - He is one of the candidates.
                • Why did Nemesis promise Ben control of the Island? - Nemesis needs someone to be the other half, before there was Jacob and Nemesis, if one of the candidates does take the place of Jacob, then someone must take the place of Nemesis.
                • What is Widmore's plan? Who's side is he on? He is going to the island to take control, he still wants the island for all of its powers.
                • 2 votes
                Reply#8 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 10:54 PM EST
                NCL70506

                Hello Bandit. It looks like we are on the same page with some of these answers.

                It was so nice to see Ben remorseful and humble without having an ulterior motive. But will it last?

                What happened at DHARMA to make Roger and Ben Linus leave? I was thinking that since Roger is shown to us in the sideways timeline as being sick, maybe that is why they left the Island. Maybe Roger not only hated his job (if he was still a janitor/workman with DI), but he became too sick to do the job.
                Who are the six remaining candidates? Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, Kate, Jin, and Sun. I think it can be Jin and Sun, not just one of them like the show has been trying to imply. Kate’s last name was on the lighthouse list, so that could mean she is still in the running as a candidate.

                What purpose does Jacob have for Jack? I think we have known this for a little while now - Jack is one of the candidates, probably the preferred candidate, to take Jacob’s place.

                Why did Nemesis promise Ben control of the Island? There may be several reasons for this. Nemesis promises to give people exactly what they want. Nemesis has been on this Island for a long time, and he has been watching Ben for years. He knows Ben’s main ambition has been to be the leader of the Island, so Nemesis offers this to him. But right after promising this, Nemesis tells Ben to get to the Hydra Island quickly to join him and the other “recruits,” so this offer of being in control of the Island may just be a ruse to get Ben to help finish his plan to get off the Island. Another reason may be that if Nemesis does actually leave the Island, this “game” that he played with Jacob must continue. So, just as Jacob needs a replacement, Nemesis needs one also. That could be a requirement for him to get off the Island.

                What is Widmore's plan? Who's side is he on? At one time, Widmore was leader of the Others with Eloise Hawking. His plan may be to become leader again. From what I remember, he was obsessed with the Island and even considered it his. Widmore also has some unfinished business with Ben, since Ben is the one who banished him from the Island. At the end of this episode, Widmore was basically saying full steam ahead, even with a group of people on the beach. He seems to be ready to go forward with whatever his plan is, and he is not concerned with who gets in the way.

                One more thing: What I find interesting is one of “the rules” that applies to Ben and Widmore and also to Jacob and Nemesis - that one cannot kill the other. Is it possible for Ben or Widmore to find a loophole to kill the other, since it worked so well for Nemesis? Regardless, I sure don't want to miss the Ben / Widmore reunion!

                • 3 votes
                #8.1 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:07 AM EST
                sarah-1604552

                Re: your reference to Ben vs. Widmore. If Ben is now good, does that, by default, make Widmore evil?

                • 2 votes
                #8.2 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:08 AM EST
                NCL70506

                Hi Sarah. Good question. Here's my thoughts:

                Up until last night's episode, Ben and Widmore were both consumed with being leader of the Island and they were very possessive of the Island. Last night, Ben seemed to realize that he sacrificed SO much for the sake of the Island (particularly his daughter Alex) and it was a mistake to do that. It looks like Ben has let go of that intense loyalty to the Island.

                Widmore is still determined to get back to the Island and may have an agenda of being in control of it. He knows about the Island's powers and was furious when he was exiled. I am leaning toward Widmore being a bad guy. I think he wants to get revenge on Ben, and if Ben is good now, it would certainly look like a good guy vs. bad guy scenario, much like Jacob vs. Nemesis.

                • 1 vote
                #8.3 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:38 PM EST
                Reply
                Aqualeo

                The Big Questions:

                • What happened at DHARMA to make Roger and Ben Linus leave?
                • Maybe there was a different Purge that made them leave?
                • Who are the six remaining candidates?
                • Jack, Sayid, Hurley, Sawyer, Kwon(whichever it is), and i'm saying Locke Prime is coming back
                • What purpose does Jacob have for Jack?
                • He will need to choose to become the new Jacob
                • Why did Nemesis promise Ben control of the Island?
                • To get Ban to do what he wants him to do.
                • What is Widmore's plan? Who's side is he on?
                • Definitely the hardest answer. I'm saying that he wants to make sure the right side wins the war. He has got to be against Team Jacob because he wants to use the island. Another question could be this. Is Sun in with Widmore like she made her deal with him before they all went back to the island.

                I really liked this episode. The war is definitely coming. And who knew the Nikki & Paulo storyline would come back.

                  Reply#9 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 10:56 PM EST
                  kmnecole

                  A detail I found ironic- speaking of the purge- wasn't Ben sitting in the van when his dad was killed by the purge- the gas. Then in the flash sideways last night- there Ben was giving gas to his dad again- oxygen- so good gas this time.

                  • 12 votes
                  #9.1 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:57 AM EST
                  Scott (Scoop) Butki

                  en sitting in the van when his dad was killed by the purge- the gas. Then in the flash sideways last night- there Ben was giving gas to his dad again- oxygen- so good gas this time.

                  Oooh i love that irony

                  • 2 votes
                  #9.2 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:41 PM EST
                  Twinkle391

                  I disagree that Locke is one of the 6. Flocke crossed "Locke" name off in the cave. Dead is dead.

                  Illana doesn't know that and thinks there's still six. So, I think there's only 5 remaining - Hurley, Sawyer, Jack, Kwon (who cares which) and Kate.

                  Also, I believe we're going to end up with Jack (Jacob) and Kate (Nemesis) at the very end of the show. I'm 100% positive it will be Jack. And, Kate, although one could argue is not "technically" with Flocke, I think she's going to stick with Flocke to the bitter end.

                    #9.3 - Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:40 PM EST
                    pinkcap

                    Flocke crossed the name off, but that doesn't mean that Jacob did.

                      #9.4 - Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:36 PM EST
                      Reply
                      ranturn

                      I really liked this episode. Totally changed my opinion of Ben. Maybe he is on the road to salvation at last. I liked how the writers wove some of his story lines. When he says at the school, "Taking care of the kids is what is important." He certainly didn't take care of Alex on the island and once again, he had to make a decision about Alex. Except this time, he did the right thing.

                      ELBA was the name of the island that Napoleon was exiled to. And where, according to Ben Linus, “Napoleon faced his greatest test.” And the castaways on "our" island are facing their greatest test as well. (Interesting note that ELBA spells backwards is ABLE).

                      My favorite Hurley line tonight was when he said to Richard, “Are you a cyborg? A vampire?”

                      And Richard…….wow…..it was so great to finally get information on him. We’ll have a whole episode of that on March 23rd, but I actually felt sorry for him that he feels that he has been blindsided by Jacob all this time, after devoting his whole life to him.

                      Loved the new confidence Jack displayed with Richard. He knew that dynamite would not go off and kill them. And his line to Richard, “Want to try another stick?” Priceless!

                      • 7 votes
                      Reply#10 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:05 PM EST
                      Bordsox-999133

                      Yes it was good to get some info about Richars but i could not help but feel let down when rather than answer Hurley he says not yet and you would not believe me as if he will tell, but then just goes to try and get blown up!

                      • 1 vote
                      #10.1 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:10 PM EST
                      ranturn

                      Bordsox-999133: From what I have read, the March 23rd episode will totally concentrate on Richard. So hang in there, information is coming!!

                      • 1 vote
                      #10.2 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:17 PM EST
                      Bordsox-999133

                      I know, and I kinda knew that going into the episode which, by the way, I really enjoyed despite my negative comments. What bothered me is that in knowing this I knew that Richard was probably not gonna die tonight and his comments were just used to push off answering something that we have been waiting for since he showed up kind of ratty looking but roughly the same age to talk to young Ben.

                      • 1 vote
                      #10.3 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:16 AM EST
                      AshleyKeen

                      While we're pointing out words spelled backward, I must admit I was a little dissapointed that Ben didn't employ use of my favorite palindrome attributed to Napoleon: "Able was I ere I saw Elba"

                      </English/History lesson>

                      • 3 votes
                      #10.4 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:20 AM EST
                      Anjillina

                      Totally agree on Hurley! He is so funny.

                      • 1 vote
                      #10.5 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:15 AM EST
                      Suzy Q 184

                      I laughed out loud when Jack said, "Wanna try another stick?" For once, Jack got one of the great one-liners!

                      • 4 votes
                      #10.6 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:28 AM EST
                      robinm85

                      We finally see Jack have faith. That's what the dynamite incident was all about.

                      • 3 votes
                      #10.7 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:41 PM EST
                      Reply
                      scrambledeggs

                      This episode was a payoff, as far as I'm concerned. While the last two seemed a little lightweight, tonight we DID get some good answers:

                      What Jacob wanted from Jack: Jacob told Hurley, at the lighthouse, that sometimes he can just sit in someone's cab and hand them a guitar case and tell them what to do, and with some people, they need to look at the ocean for a while. Jack was figuring out what his whole life purpose was, since he's been watched by Jacob and probably manipulated by him for most of it. In the end, he had to reject fate, and accept that if everything that happened to him was clearly for a reason, then what was it - and then Richard drops in to say that after wondering these very same things, he wants Jack to help him kill himself. Jack sees his moment to test his brand new "trust the island" a la Locke, and presto the fuse blows out - the universe didn't let him die because he is THE candidate. His transition moment to a man of faith. To take over from Jacob whatever he's there to do.

                      Nem offers Ben the very thing he thought was so important - power and control over the island - but that was the old Ben. He'd always thought that the island was more important than anything, until he realized it wasn't, and Nem used the same bait that always got Ben in the past, but this is his transition moment, where he sees things as they really are - the correct view, or the Correct Dharma eye - seeing past possessions and spite and power - gaining wisdom!

                      Ben and Roger left Dharma - I'm betting that Roger either didn't become alcoholic and abusive, or else started to and was helped into recovery. Things look pretty all right in that sideways universe, like if they weren't meddled with then things would have been just fine.

                      I think the 6 candidates are Jack, Hurley, Sayid, Sawyer, Sun and not Jin but Kate. And I think that Kate and Sawyer in Nem's camp could be how Nem is taken out.

                      Widmore's plans? He wants to power of the island, so I think he wants what Nem just offered Ben.

                      • 6 votes
                      Reply#11 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:10 PM EST
                      BlackRock Steve

                      Jack sees his moment to test his brand new "trust the island" a la Locke, and presto the fuse blows out - the universe didn't let him die because he is THE candidate. His transition moment to a man of faith. To take over from Jacob whatever he's there to do.

                      You are so right...perfectly worded!!

                      • 2 votes
                      #11.1 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:20 PM EST
                      Reply
                      Herbcules74

                      Good evening all,

                      We are yet another step closer to the end of the best show ever. I now watch 2 hours of Lost every Tuesday, the recap show and the new episode. Before commenting on this weeks episode I need to make an observation about last weeks episode that I just noticed and that I don't remember seeing anyone mention in last weeks posts. When Sayid is on his way into the jungle to meet with Flocke he meets Kate. When Kate left to find Sawyer in the season premier Sayid was dead! She was there when they held him under the water and he died. So, WHY WASN"T SHE THE LEAST BIT SURPRISED WHEN SHE RUNS INTO HIM IN THE JUNGLE. You would think she at least would have said, "Hey, weren't you dead." I definitely find that odd.

                      I found tonight's episode to be very interesting. In Ben's class he was discussing how Napoleon was exiled to the island of Elba and stripped of his power. Could that be a reference to Nemesis. Was he exiled to the island and stripped of his power? I also really enjoyed the dynamic between the Principal and Ben and how it may correlate to Jacob and Ben. Ben felt the principal wasn't making decisions that were good for the school and felt he could do a better job. He thought he could make better use of the power of being principal, much like he felt he could run the island better then Jacob. When he got the opportunity to get rid of the principal he was offered a choice, take the power for himself or give up his chance to help Alex. He chose Alex. Yet in the reality we know he couldn't bring himself to give up the power of being the leader and Alex died. Ben obviously regretted that decision deeply. It was nice to see him make the right decision in the "sideways" world. And now at the end of the episode when Ben had the chance to escape he didn't take it. He went for the gun just so he could get Ilana to listen to his apology. Ben truly wants to repent for his previous decisions and try to redeem himself. Is this what Jacob wanted for him all along? I feel so torn on Ben. He was always the character that I loved to hate because he was so perfectly evil, but now I find myself pulling for him. I know we all say it but I say it again, Michael Emerson is brilliant. Getting back to the principal. His name was Principal Reynolds. Wasn't Reynolds a name on the wall in Jacob's cave. Is it possible he was a candidate at one point?

                      Questions:

                    • What happened at DHARMA to make Roger and Ben Linus leave?
                    • At first I was going to assume that they left when the island was evacuated but from the way that Roger was talking I don't think that's right. He said, "Why did we leave" like it was something they chose to do. It looks like in the "sideways" world they were on the island in the 70's but I don't think it was the 70's that we saw. I don't think this Ben was ever shot as a kid. I could be wrong though.

                      Who are the six remaining candidates?

                      The six were Locke, Hurly, Jack, Sawyer, Sayid, and either Sun or Jin. Are we assuming that there are more now. Locke is definitely out and maybe Sayid but I doubt that Sawyer has turned to the dark side. So are there now 2 more since Locke and Sayid are out? Could Ben be back in now that he is trying to redeem himself?

                    • What purpose does Jacob have for Jack?
                    • He is the leading candidate to be the new Jacob

                    • Why did Nemesis promise Ben control of the Island?
                    • Because he believes that is all that Ben wants. He was a very low opinion of him. I think he didn't expect Ben to change.

                    • What is Widmore's plan? Who's side is he on?
                    • I have no idea anymore......MY HEAD HURTS!

                      Herb

                      • 3 votes
                      Reply#12 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:13 PM EST
                      kimbirdy

                      Kate was still at the Temple when Sayid came back from the dead. Remember, she said something to Sawyer about "how is that possible" and he said something like, "he's a torturer and kills kids, of course he gets to come back."

                      • 2 votes
                      #12.1 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:21 PM EST
                      Inchiki

                      Evening, Herb. Maybe you didn't mention it because it was obvious, but the discussion of Napoleon and his exile to Elba also represents Ben's situation. He has a doctorate degree but teaches at a high school. To compound things, he is reassigned to oversee detention and not nurture the best and brightest. He thinks he's more fit to lead than Principal Reynolds.

                      • 1 vote
                      #12.2 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:34 PM EST
                      Herbcules74

                      Oh yeah....my mistake. I thought Sawyer had already escaped at that point and Kate had gone after him. The episodes are starting to run together in my mind.

                        #12.3 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:43 PM EST
                        Reply
                        Anon Emous

                        Yes, BEN lives on another day!!!! :D

                        I swear, I was so mad at Miles for ratting him out to Ilana that, in my best Sawyer, I yelled 'You son of a bitch!!'

                        I love that Ben was the only 'recruit' of MIB/Smokey who chose , in the end, NOT to follow. Well, by recruit I mean Claire and Sayid... still don't have a read on the true reason for Sawyer being there and I think Kate's being there is circumstantial - ie, don't think she would tag along w/ Smokey if she hadn't gone after Claire.

                        Why did Ben and Roger leave? Maybe they were part of those to leave at the point of the 'Incident'

                        CO EMMYS for Michael Emerson and Terry O'Quinn

                        • 3 votes
                        Reply#13 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:16 PM EST
                        Sabastian Palpatine

                        "...I swear, I was so mad at Miles for ratting him out to Ilana that, in my best Sawyer, I yelled 'You son of a @!$%#!!'"

                        Miles was right to rat him out. Ben needed to face what he did.

                        BTW, lol...that is so "Sawyer"; "you son a @!$%#!!". I don't know if it's Josh Holloway's delivery or what but he has the best catch phrases. Another one is heard when ever someone says something crazy then Sawyer sarcastically replies "...Well alright then".

                        The funniest Sawyer line ever has to be after he asked Kate if she was interested in some "afternoon delight" followed by "what do you need me to do, make you a mix tape?"

                        • 4 votes
                        #13.1 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:26 PM EST
                        Reply
                        Herbcules74

                        I googled the book that Ben found in Sawyer's old tent. The writers seemed like they wanted us to notice it. The book is The Chosen by Chaim Potok. Here is a synopsis:

                        The Chosen is the bestselling book by Chaim Potok published in 1967. It is about two teenage Jewish boys who form a friendship, though they come from different worlds. It is a first-person narrative from the point of view of Reuven Malter. The Chosen' tells the story of the friendship between two Jewish boys growing up in 1940’s Brooklyn. Reuven Malter, who has a mind for mathematics,wants to become a rabbi and follows modern methods of studying Judiasm. Danny is a genius son of a Hasidiac Rabbi, Reb Saunders, who expects him to take over his position as tzaddik eventually

                        I read an outline of the characters and it feels like the writers are trying to tells us someting but I can't quite figure it out. Has anyone out there read this book?

                        Herb

                          Reply#14 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:18 PM EST
                          scrambledeggs

                          In that book, the boys feel penned in by their parent's expectations of what they should be - but each has other dreams for themselves. The sheltered boy reads everything he can find to learn, and the man in the library who makes reading suggestions turns out to be the other kid's father! From what I remember of this book, the boys end up kind of living each other's lives, and the father and son who couldn't get along are better able to communicate.

                            #14.1 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:25 PM EST
                            BlackRock Steve

                            the friendship between two...who has a mind for mathematics,wants to become a rabbi and follows modern methodsof studying Judiasm. ...a genius son of a Hasidiac Rabbi, Reb Saunders, who expects him to take over his position as tzaddik eventually

                            Hi Herb...sound like any Losties you know? It's the old "Man of Science vs. Man of Faith" (Season 2 premier)...the original Jack vs. Locke "friendship"...AND, I would say since numbers and modern methods are critical to any "Long Con" and Jack is now a Man of Faith...you could now argue that it's also now a commentary on Sawyer vs. Jack friendship!

                            • 2 votes
                            #14.2 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:29 PM EST
                            ranturn

                            Herb - I agree with you. That book stood out. (Won't mention the magazine that was laying next to it though!!). And the writers are trying to tell us something. When the season first started, I vaguely recall having read that the producers mentioned something about the meaning or the story being right in front of us, but we have to figure it out. (I think I got that right).

                            I found these quotes from the book:

                            “What does it mean to have to suffer so much if our lives are nothing more than the blink of an eye? … I learned a long time ago, Reuven, that a blink of an eye in itself is nothing. But the eye that blinks, that is something. A span of life is nothing. But the man who lives that span, he is something."

                            [My father] taught me with silence. . .to look into myself, to find my own strength, to walk around inside myself in company with my soul. . . . One learns of the pain of others by suffering one’s own pain … by turning inside oneself. . . . It makes us aware of how frail and tiny we are and of how much we must depend upon the Master of the Universe.”

                            Who does that sound like?

                            • 2 votes
                            #14.3 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:39 PM EST
                            Inchiki

                            Hhhhhmmmm, boys living each others' lives . . . more reference to yin/yang? As has been mentioned regarding the yin/yang symbol, there is a dark spot in the light segment and a light spot in the dark segment. In everything, there are seeds of the opposite. Or put another way, the light has its origins in darkness, and darkness from light.

                            As we all know by now, everything that rises must converge!

                            • 1 vote
                            #14.4 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:58 PM EST
                            pinkcap

                            The book highlights father/son relationships. This has been a running theme in this show. Ben and his father did not have a good relationship, but in this world, they do. Locke wanted his father's love, in the sideway's world, it looks like he may have it. Jack, well, Jack seems to have daddy issues in both worlds, but in the sideway's world, I think he will make peace with his daddy issues by rectifying the same mistakes he's made with his son. And then we have the ultimate father figure in Jacob. Ben and Richard have been waiting patiently for Jacob's plan and feel rejected and betrayed because he has not confided everything to them. They feel abandoned by him.

                            • 2 votes
                            #14.5 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:29 AM EST
                            NCL70506

                            pinkcap - You summed that up very well.

                            In last season's finale and in last night's episode, Ben expressed how much he was hurt by Jacob not acknowledging him, despite all Ben had done to "protect" the Island. He was very emotional in both episodes. It was like a little boy yelling at his dad to notice him and pay attention to him. Very real emotions.

                            When Richard told Jack and Hurley that he had to do something, I was shocked to hear that what he needed to do was die! Richard was also upset with Jacob, particularly about leading him on for so long and leaving him in the dark about very important things. It was sad to see Richard return to the Black Rock, to the ship that brought him to the Island, and to what appeared to be the beginning of his journey and allegiance to Jacob. He went back to the Black Rock to find the way that he planned on dying. After the dynamite did not explode, it was a little ironic that Jack said now we need to go back to where we started. He led Richard to the survivors' old beach camp, where Jack's journey on the Island began.

                            • 2 votes
                            #14.6 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:09 PM EST
                            Reply
                            Inchiki

                            Finally, getting some mileage from Miles. But where's the snappy repartee?

                            Just a comment on the flash sideways. These glimpses are "through a looking glass" as the father/son relations are (all?) healthy. Jack and David don't have the dynamic as Jack did with Christian. Ben's father doesn't seem to blame Ben for the mother's death, as Ben is now the primary caretaker. Heck, Locke was thinking of inviting his father to a shotgun wedding.

                            There's something troubling about these flash sideways. One thing is that people are assuming that the changes are from 1977 forward as the detonation of the nuclear bomb. But if there was no hatch from no Dharma, there is no plane crash and no Oceanic Six to be rescued. Without the Oceanic Six trying to return to the Island, there's no time skipping. Without time skipping, Faraday never goes back to 1954(?) to see the atomic bomb and help bury it. I'm not sure if this involves a paradox or not, since I've kinda got lost myself. Anyway, if the sideways are alternate timelines (which is not my foremost theory on the matter), than shouldn't the changes actually originate from the Army coming to the Island?

                            As for the questions -

                            • What happened at DHARMA to make Roger and Ben Linus leave? An unstable, unkown energy source that Dharma found and were building a station to exploit. Fearing for their safety the Dharma evacuated.
                            • Who are the six remaining candidates? Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, and Jin or Sun (Kwon). Sayid if it’s really Sayid. To replace Locke , Frank. I don't think Miles would be a good candidate, even though he'd be a pretty great sidekick/comic relief.
                            • What purpose does Jacob have for Jack? Have a little faith.
                            • Why did Nemesis promise Ben control of the Island? Control is his thing, it’s what he (usually) wants most. However, he realized that it wasn't control that made him happiest, it was raising Alex.
                            • What is Widmore's plan? Who's side is he on? Widmore wants control of the Island as he once had before he was exiled. As a former leader of the Other, he should be on Jacob’s side. He's probably the person that Jacob said needed some help reaching the Island, so Jacob was somewhat truthful about the Lighthouse.
                            • 2 votes
                            Reply#15 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:22 PM EST
                            Bordsox-999133

                            I really like the idea of Frank being one of the candidates. He was supposed to be the pilot but overslept because the alarm did not go off, and we saw what happened to the replacement pilot. Additionally when Ajira crashed and he gets back to the Hydra and gets knocked out Illana specifically says that he may be a candidate.

                            • 1 vote
                            #15.1 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:36 AM EST
                            Inchiki

                            Thanks Bordsox,

                            C'mon people, a little love for the "Lawnmower Man" !! :)

                            • 1 vote
                            #15.2 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:05 AM EST
                            Minnie-1650414

                            I think Frank is a candidate also. Thats why Smokie killed Seth Norris, the replacement pilot in the beginning. Smokie thought that Frank would be there but got miffed when it wasn't him and killed Seth.

                            • 4 votes
                            #15.3 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:34 AM EST
                            ranturn

                            Inchiki - Miles did have one line that made me laugh. When Ben mentioned the 3.2 million dollars to him, Miles replied, "What are you going to do, write me a check?"

                            • 1 vote
                            #15.4 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:29 PM EST
                            Sabastian Palpatine

                            "There's something troubling about these flash sideways."

                            You know what, maybe it's just the pessimist in me but I get the same feeling. In the flash sideways universe things seem to be a little too good and what did mom and dad say is usually the case "when something seems to be too good to be true"?

                            In regards to universe X, my gut tells me not to be surprised when things fall apart.

                            • 2 votes
                            #15.5 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:38 PM EST
                            Twinkle391

                            I agree that things in the flash sideways will start to fall apart - about mid-way through if you believe Matthew Fox. The two time lines, for lack of a better world, are supposed to converge then. What "converge" means, however, is up for grabs.

                            I think that both time lines occurred, had to actually for the bomb to go off, and of course my mantra, what happened, happened. We've seen that Sayid turned bad in both time lines, Ben turned good in both timelines, Jack turned good in both time lines. So, whatever a candidate does in one time line, they'll end up doing in the other. Are we to believe in Kate's sorry story that she turned "good" by helping Claire get to the hospital? Because I'm not sure she's with Flocke's team, although she's travelling with them.

                            It will be interesting to see what Sawyer does.

                              #15.6 - Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:53 PM EST
                              Reply
                              kimbirdy

                              I think the sideways world isn't what happens if the bomb never detonated -- it's what their lives would have been like if they'd never been touched by Jacob.

                              • 3 votes
                              Reply#16 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:24 PM EST
                              H.Dane

                              That's what's been implied, yes. One could also agrue that if they bomb blows up, the island sinks, and Jacob can't leave the island to mess with anyone. The earliest we see him visiting a Lostie was Sawyer, at 8 years old, which would have been around 1977. It looks like he would of visited James before the bomb went off, but we dont' know if Sawyer's life is any different yet. With everyone else, we know it's a bit different.

                                #16.1 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:31 AM EST
                                Anjillina

                                That doesn't work though (saying it just shows changes if not touched by Jacob). For instance, Jacob never touched Hurley until 2007 right before they went back to the island. So why would his luck have been changed from birth onward? And Locke has a good relationship with his father. Well, his Dad was the one that pushed him out the window in the original line - after which he was touched by Jacob. So Jacob didn't mess up Locke's Dad originally, so lack of Jacob isn't making him nice in new line. I think the LA scenes are either a) a completely alternate universe or b) something with the whole reset or something the Losties did reset events all the way back to the beginning of Jacob and Nemesis competition - which would change all the bad Nemesis had done prior to the birth of the Losties (possibly to their parents) and allowed the Losties to have better lives.

                                • 3 votes
                                #16.2 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:25 AM EST
                                H.Dane

                                I totally agree that everything has changed from way back. I think we'll see more on that later.

                                I don't know how it would work, because i think 'once you're Jacob you can visit whatever time you like (time travel without a frozen donkey wheel making the island skip)' would be a cop out, but i think that whoever becomes the new Jacob is the one that changed their lives, rather than the bomb. Meh. Just a little theory.

                                • 1 vote
                                #16.3 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:39 AM EST
                                mynamewastaken

                                I've been reading this blog since last season and love it. However, this is my first comment. I'm tired of yelling at a computer screen that doesn't answer back! The motivation behind my first comment is the idea of the island being blown up and "sinking". This idea has come up quite a few times. To begin with, I don't think the bomb detonated - I think the energy pocket was released. If the bomb detonated the characters would have died. Instead they were scattered around like after the other flashes. Juliet would not be burried under debris at the bottom of the shaft. More importantly, why do viewers think that an island can sink? I know that it's LOST and islands aren't supposed to disappear and flash through time, but "sink"! What was holding it afloat that is suddenly gone? Also, if a nuclear (or atomic..or hydrogen?) explosion caused the island to sink, would the DHARMA barracks and playground still be intact underwater? I just don't think that it detonated. I am also among the group that doesn't believe that the new timeline doesn't simply begin in 1977. I think that this is more of a reset in all of their lives after the final "battle" has played out. The candidates are chosen to play the game to prove Jacob right, not take his place and continue the game. Only one person has to prove his point. I definitely have other questions, but I'll get to those later.

                                • 3 votes
                                #16.4 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:56 PM EST
                                Anjillina

                                Good comments mynamewastaken. I think the "sinking" idea comes from the first episode of the season. When it first showed the LA "universe" or whatever it is, it actually did a panning camera shot from the plane that didn't crash down to the ocean, then under the ocean and showed what we have always known as "the island" on the bottom of the ocean - large statue foot and all. As though it now resides on the bottom of the sea. So it was shown by the writers for some reason to appear on the bottom of the ocean. Don't know why at all.

                                • 1 vote
                                #16.5 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:46 PM EST
                                H.Dane

                                Welcome. Sorry your name was taken.

                                Agreed on the alt-reality begin the outcome of the finale. All good points.

                                Also, as far as the island goes, it's been stated that the island is constantly moving, which islands don't tend to do either (aside from the pacific garbage patch, which really isn't an island...but i digress...). I think you are correct that the energy pocket released. But the bomb (if they choose to write it that way...) might of caused that. Who knows? And as for all the stuff down there being intact; well, they needed it to look that way for dramatic effect, is the short answer. Even if the island floated gently down, the houses and such would of been pretty f-ed up.

                                • 1 vote
                                #16.6 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:49 PM EST
                                itis1251

                                (If for whatever reason this is not linked, this is to address MYNAME WAS TAKEN's 16.4 comment)
                                Weeks ago I would have totally agreed with the mindset of an island not being sinkable by the bomb as well as the bomb not even detonating.

                                However, having listened to one of Carlton and Lindelof's podcasts, they addressed an old comment one of the dharm children asked. It involved Ben, Anne and then went on to discuss Volcanic activity. The comment made was that this would come up again later in the series and be "seismic."

                                Now, I still think it is a stretch to sink an island, but if they want to write it where the bomb triggered a seismic "incident" that caused volcanic activity...that may be enough to sink a location moving island.

                                On a side note...the sunken island was also apparently under the flight of the "reset" version of oceanic flight 815. In the initial flight it was declared the turbulence combined with electronic failure and what-not led the plane to be more than a 1,000 miles off course. So I'm guessing perhaps the island drifted or changed locations due to more of this sci-fi electromagnetic energy being released during this seismic / volcanic "incident" to come?

                                I think the bigger plot whole will be how Juliet lived to have her scene with Sawyer. It may be as simple as saying the flashes saved her the way they saved the outrigger from being shot at, but if so, they need to come out and declare that very deliberately somehow. No clue as to how they will explain why everything looks so intact (perhaps DHARMA has fine tuned the sonar fence to also serve as an underwater forcefeild? whatever! too much chasing our tails.)

                                (as to the candidate debacle...think there are too many pieces yet unexplained to take a stance that I won't back down on yet, but in that same podcast the writers mentioned the cave is quite possibly a decoy for the rival to Jacob as they confirmed the lighthouse kept Kate as a viable candidate whereas the cave had her crossed out. Beyond that... Does Jacob WANT to be replaced? I know Ilana is to protect the candidates & Jacob's rival wants to end whatever is keeping him trapped on the island, but it's possible that Jacob is content to continue until he wins whatever the "game" of LOST is.)

                                Again, I completely followed your stance and held to it myself until the writers started to explain possible upcoming solutions in their podcast. Guess we'll wait and see if any of it is acceptable.

                                  #16.7 - Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:04 AM EST
                                  Reply
                                  mearth1961

                                  The Big Questions:
                                  •What happened at DHARMA to make Roger and Ben Linus leave?
                                  The events of '77 happened. Ben was shot by Sayid, (but healed in the Temple).
                                  Roger was distraught by almost losing his son, he shot Sayid. The Swan Hatch was blown up. Roger was so relieved that Ben was alive but understandably anxious about the danger and destruction that had taken place that when given the opportunity he left the Island, taking Ben with him. The experience made him realize how much he loved his son and thus, changed his heart, making him chose to be sober and a better father?

                                  •Who are the six remaining candidates?
                                  Hurley, Jack, Sun, Jin, Sawyer, Kate

                                  •What purpose does Jacob have for Jack?
                                  Jack might be his best candidate, now that he has taken the leap of faith?

                                  •Why did Nemesis promise Ben control of the Island?
                                  Because he is still under the assumption that is Ben's hearts desire and Nemesis promises those things that he thinks will sway people to do his bidding.

                                  •What is Widmore's plan? Who's side is he on?
                                  Widdemore is heading to the Other Island. Somehow he knows that's where Nemesis is rallying his troops.

                                  I'm trying to figure this one out. When Ben went through the Donkey Wheel to Tunisia and made his way to Widdemore's home, CW woke and asked Ben "Are you here to kill me?" and if my memory serves, Ben said "You know that's against the rules". So that means that they have always been on opposite sides of the equation, even if they didn't grasp fully what that really meant? When we see CW in his youth as Leader of the "Natives", he seems to be cold, calculated and cutthroat...and he sent those kind of people with the sole intent to kill Ben (they executed Alex without blinking an eye) yet weren't we told that as Leader he maintained a "truce" or peace for 30 years??? Did he send them to kill Ben because he knew that Ben would kill Jacob and was trying to alter the future?

                                  If he discovers now that Ben is NOT with Nems group perhaps he will decide to ally himself with Nem to destroy Ben and those he may assume are "following" Ben??? That would see the logical course of action, but we've seen people we believed to be rotten to the core (Ben) change their hearts...so perhaps once CW gets a true grasp of what has transpired we discover that he and Ben end up as allies and together they help wrest control away from Nemesis and reign the monster back???

                                  Cheers:

                                  Hurley: "I'll be waiting for you about a mile from here" (or something like that) It was just too funny!

                                  Miles "I saw you standing over his dead body with a bloody knife, so uhhhh, yeah, I'm pretty sure" (love it when he gets all sarcastic)

                                  Miles: "Uh-Oh" (I cracked up)

                                  Cheers: Ben's heartfelt apology and choice to stay with Ilana....Bravo Ben, Bravo! What a great actor he is!!! Had me all choked up!

                                  Jeers AND Cheers: Blackrock scene - I was yelling at Jack "You Ass, You took an Oath DO NO HARM, what kind of Doctor are you!!??? and then after he lit the fuse and sat down it dawned on me....he has FINALLY has rid himself of that jackass persona he cloaked himself in and is TRUSTING something beyond himself. Bravo Jack - better late than never....but seriously...the way it played out this way didn't really synch up for me. It didn't feel right. He was being his usual jackass self right up to Richard asking him to light the fuse....and in a blink of an eye Jack suddenly has an epiphany and comes to accept that he has a PURPOSE and takes this leap of faith???? Boooooo...bad writing IMHO. Felt forced or rushed or I dunno...just didn't feel RIGHT.

                                  • 4 votes
                                  Reply#17 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:36 PM EST
                                  blackwidow1

                                  Felt forced or rushed or I dunno...just didn't feel RIGHT.

                                  I'm with you here, mearth. Something just didn't feel right. That whole scene with Jack was just odd to me. Like Hurley said, "he's crazy and trust me I know crazy." LOL ... I don't think Jack's crazy and I get the whole "Jack's accepting his destiny and putting faith in the island" and don't disagree with that analysis ... there was just something a bit off.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #17.1 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:03 AM EST
                                  BlackRock Steve

                                  Hi mearth,

                                  When we see CW.....and he sent those kind of people with the sole intent to kill Ben (they executed Alex without blinking an eye)...Did he send them to kill Ben because he knew that Ben would kill Jacob and was trying to alter the future?

                                  I never got that from the shows last year and the Enhanced episodes...Widmore sent the team to capture Ben, that was the "mission" according to Captain Gault...they were supposed to bring him back alive...remember that it was Keamy who implemented the "2nd protocol" and took it upon himself to Kill Alex to force Ben to surrender. And, if you go back to "Cabin Fever" (Season 4 / 11th episode), you'll see what we all missed back then....having "Cabin Fever" was our first introduction to "being infected"as has happened to Claire & Sayid.... per Captain Gault, Keamy is infected, as were other members of the ship and Keamy's team!!!!

                                  • 4 votes
                                  #17.2 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:32 AM EST
                                  pinkcap

                                  Mearth and Blackwidow

                                  Richard told Jack he could not kill himself because Jacob gave him that gift by touching him. If Jack knows that he was touched by Jacob, or even suspects it, then he would know, from what Richard said, that Jacob's touch would keep him from being able to kill himself. By staying on the ship and lighting the fuse himself, it could not go off because Jack can't kill himself.

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #17.3 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:01 AM EST
                                  blackwidow1

                                  pinkcap

                                  Thats a very good point about Jack.

                                  Still, there was still something about the scene itself that seemed odd to me. I haven't rewatched it yet and won't be able to for a few hours. I may view it differently the second time around.

                                    #17.4 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:15 AM EST
                                    mearth1961

                                    BlackRock - Man! I had forgot about the folks on the freighter getting "infected". I assumed that was due to some forcefield anomoly surrounding the Island. It never occurred to me that Keamy was making decisions in an altered infected state...probably because I was so used to Ben's assertion that the sole purpose behind Widdemore's little army was to "kill everyone on the Island", so when they began behaving like the cold blooded killers Ben had always said they were, I didn't question it.

                                    But now I'm wondering...what was Widdedmore's agenda for capturing/NOT killing Ben? Ben seemed to believe he COULD be killed by Keamy.........arrgghhhhhh, more questions!

                                    • 3 votes
                                    #17.5 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:43 PM EST
                                    say what??

                                    I thought the freighter "infection" was disorientation caused by consciousness time traveling from veering off the designated coordinate and not having a constant (Minkowski, Desmond). IMO Keamy was just a bad ass and perfect for his assignment.

                                    • 2 votes
                                    #17.6 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:02 PM EST
                                    dcotts42

                                    The guy who blew up all over Hurley (dynamite from Blackrock) in an early episode was Science teacher at Bens sidways reality school. Leslie Artz.

                                      #17.7 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:14 PM EST
                                      NCL70506

                                      say what?? - This got me wondering about “infection” vs. “time-traveling disorientation.”

                                      I went to Lostpedia to do some reading. This is what I found in several sections; sorry it’s long:

                                      “George Minkowski was the communications officer aboard the freighter. He and fellow crew member Brandon decided to tour the Island and set out aboard the ship’s tender. Before reaching the Island, Brandon started "acting crazy", forcing Minkowski to return to the freighter. Brandon subsequently died, and Minkowski too began to suffer the effects of time-transported consciousness, leading to his being strapped down in a bed in the freighter's sickbay. Desmond, who by then was also exhibiting the disorientating symptoms of temporal displacement, was locked in the sickbay with Minkowski. Recognizing Desmond's symptoms, Minkowski offered to assist Desmond to restore contact with the outside world and call Penelope, the “constant” Desmond needed to end his flashes between past and present. Desmond and Sayid un-strapped Minkowski, whose nose had begun to bleed, and proceeded to the radio room. Once there, Minkowski began to experience convulsions and finally, uttering "I can't get back", Minkowski died in Desmond's arms.”

                                      “On the freighter, Regina was seen working as a communications officer. She likely took over the job when George Minkowski became ill as a result of being unstuck in time. Later, Regina walked out onto the deck wrapped in chains. She climbed the railings and committed suicide by jumping overboard. According to Captain Gault, she was afflicted by what might best be described as a heightened case of cabin fever.”

                                      “After Regina committed suicide, Gault ordered the crew to refrain from trying to rescue her. That night, Gault discovered two crewmembers attempting to escape the freighter in the ship's tender. He beat the would-be deserters, telling the other crewmembers he was doing so to save their lives, reminding them of the fates of George Minkowski and Brandon, who had earlier made an ill-fated voyage in the ship's tender and died of the effects of time-transported consciousness.” [Here, Captain Gault acknowledges the Minkowski and Brandon died from the time-traveling/transporting problem; he did not say cabin fever or infection.]

                                      Keamy and the mercenaries went on their first flight to the Island. “Keamy took Alex as bait for Ben in order to extract Ben from his house. However, Ben remained steadfast, denouncing his daughter. Keamy then shot Alex in the head, killing her. This prompted a shocked Ben to unleash the Monster, which attacked the Freighter's mercenaries. Keamy then appeared unharmed, with the rest of the mercenaries.” [This could be when the smoke monster infected Keamy, as it was the first time (that we know of) the two encountered each other. He was already a bad guy because he shot Alex, but all the bad things he did after this may have been enhanced by the infection from the smoke monster.]

                                      “Frank flew Keamy and the rest of the mercenaries back to the freighter in the helicopter. There, Keamy threatened Captain Gault with a gun. Keamy confronted Gault for his key, which Gault refused to give up, stating that Keamy was suffering from the same sickness that afflicted Regina. However, Keamy forcefully took Gault's key, which was used with Keamy's key to unlock a safe, from which he took out a folder that contains, in his own words, "secondary protocol." Gault was shocked when Keamy threatened to torch the island, and was ordered by Keamy to fix his gun. Keamy began making preparations to return to the Island. Captain Gault--armed with a pistol--and two other men arrived. Gault held Keamy at gunpoint and demanded that the mercenaries surrender, but Keamy shot him in the heart, killing him.” [Here, Captain Gault states the Keamy was suffering from the same "sickness" as Regina, which he earlier referred to as "cabin fever." He seems to realize that there are two different problems: one related to time disorientation and the second due to a sickness.]

                                      I can certainly see why and I remember that Minkowski, Brandon, and Desmond suffered from the effects of "time-transported consciousness." I can also see why Keamy may have suffered from the "infection" or "sickness" since he encountered the smoke monster; however, I don't see why Regina would suffer from this since she never encountered the smoke monster; I think she was more likely suffering from the time problem.

                                      • 4 votes
                                      #17.8 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:55 PM EST
                                      say what??

                                      Thanks for the research, NCL. I wonder if we'll ever know for sure if Keamy was Smokey infected. Maybe Smokey didn't like his eggs...

                                        #17.9 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:28 PM EST
                                        BlackRock Steve

                                        NCL...

                                        I can also see why Keamy may have suffered from the "infection" or "sickness" since he encountered the smoke monster; however, I don't see why Regina would suffer from this since she never encountered the smoke monster; I think she was more likely suffering from the time problem.

                                        saywhat...

                                        I wonder if we'll ever know for sure if Keamy was Smokey infected....

                                        Me thinks you all forget...Smokey doesn't do the infection...it appears that MIB, or a "ghost" does, and that the Kahana was a "ghost ship"...as in Christian was there!!...Just as he was in Jacob's cabin with Claire, and look what happened to her!! As Dogen said to Sayid in Sundown:

                                        DOGEN: For years, he has been trapped, but now Jacob is gone, he's free. This man will not stop until he has destroyed every living thing on this island. He is evil incarnate.

                                        SAYID: And you want me to speak to him?

                                        DOGEN: No. I want you to kill him. He will come to you as someone you know, someone who has died.As soon as you see him [Dogen unsheathes a dagger] plunge this deep into his chest. If you allow him to speak, it is already too late.

                                        I believe these are clues from the writers that: It was MIB who was trapped in Jacob's cabin by the ash ring and said "Help me" to Locke, and thus perhaps...Christian's ghost is MIB!!??

                                        • 1 vote
                                        #17.10 - Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:07 PM EST
                                        Reply
                                        Stacey in Colorado
                                      • What happened at DHARMA to make Roger and Ben Linus leave? I think perhaps Ben's mother died while on the island...seems like similar things keep happening in these "sideways" flashes, just at different times...and maybe that prompted them to leave...or else Roger was tired of being a janitor. Since no "incident" was mentioned...that seems unlikely.
                                      • Who are the six remaining candidates? I'm going with the six we saw written on the ceiling...Locke, Hurley, Jack, Sayid, Kwon, Sawyer. Iliana isn't factoring in the death of Locke and is unaware of the "turn" of Sawyer.
                                      • What purpose does Jacob have for Jack? The same as the other candidates.
                                      • Why did Nemesis promise Ben control of the Island? Empty promises...he is recruiting.
                                      • What is Widmore's plan? Who's side is he on? I think the bigger question here is HOW DID HE FIND THE ISLAND??? I always thought perhaps he employed Iliana and crew...so maybe he's on the side of Jacob...clearly he doesn't want the island destroyed. And where are Desmond and Penny - still on a boat?
                                      • Cheers:

                                        • Seems like Richard is from the Black Rock. Got some answers about him.
                                        • A good Ben-centric episode. He does have a heart. Wow.

                                        Jeers:

                                        • Not a lot of answers. AGAIN. Seriously, how are they going to wrap this up with 9 episodes to go???
                                          Reply#18 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:37 PM EST
                                          pinkcap

                                          I have to admit that I thought that Ben in the sideways world was going to throw Alex under the bus. I was so glad to be wrong! You could tell that he felt disappointed in not becoming the new principal, but doing the right thing and seeing Alex happy is what truly mattered to him in the end. It parallels to the current reality, only in this one, it took Ben a long time to finally realize what really matters in life. It was nice to see him repentant and actually being honest at the end. I also thought the lesson about Napoleon's exile to Elba was a wonderful example of Ben's life. A little man who needed power to feel big.

                                          I loved the line that Arzt said to Dr. Linus - "...you fooled me with that sweater vest. You're a real killer."

                                          I think the biggest reveal was that we know why Richard never ages and that those Jacob touched will also never age. I have to wonder if Michael was touched at one point. He was never able to kill himself, he died when the island let him die.

                                          What happened at DHARMA to make Roger and Ben Linus leave? I remember that Roger was very unhappy with the job he was given - janitor. He was led to believe that he was going to have a great job with a great future. I think he just decided to quit. After seeing Roger's concern for Ben's future in the sideway's world, I have to wonder if the reason he stayed on the island in a job he didn't like was to give Ben a better life, but he ended up resenting Ben for it. It was nice to see Roger and Ben in a healthy father/son relationship.

                                          Who are the six remaining candidates?Jacob touched Kate. Maybe you don't have to be one of "the numbers" to be a candidate, you just have to be a number. I think she might be a candidate, but I'm not sure that Locke or Sayid are out yet. Anything can happen on this show. Jack, Hurley, Sun/Jin, and Sawyer are definitely still candidates.

                                          What purpose does Jacob have for Jack? I think he will either be a replacement for Jacob or Dogen. Jack will help to lead team Jacob. He does have a sense of purpose and has regained his confidence. His name is appropriate - Shepard. He will lead them, but will he be like Moses and lead them into the promised land only to die right before reaching it or will he always be their leader?

                                          Why did Nemesis promise Ben control of the Island? The Nemesis is promising everyone their hearts desire. He's able to read their souls and knows how to manipulate them. He will do anything to win this battle.

                                          What is Widmore's plan? Who's side is he on?I have been asking that question myself for awhile. The enhanced episode reminded us that Widmore said if Locke did not return, the wrong side would win. I have to wonder if Widmore would change his statement if he knew Locke was dead. Bram once told Miles that if he was working for Widmore, he was on the wrong side. I am leaning towards him being on the side of the Nemesis for one reason only - the nemesis is promising everyone their hearts desire and Widmore's greatest desire is to be the leader of the island. The nemesis could have promised him this before he was exiled.

                                          I thought it was a great episode. It's feels good to finally like Ben and to see Jack having a sense of purpose. I always love those scenes when our Losties our reunited. After seeing a glimpse of Richard, I can't wait for his episode on March 23. It was good to have an upbeat episode after last week's dark episode.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          Reply#19 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:43 PM EST
                                          JohnBoy813

                                          I think that he know's Locke is dead, in fact I think that he wanted Locke's body to be on the island so that Nem could inhabit him. In other words if Locke's body was not on the island, Nem would not have had a new host. And without a new host, Jacob's side (the wrong side in Widmores opinion) would win.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #19.1 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:06 PM EST
                                          Reply
                                          OnlyChild

                                          When Jacob visited Jin and Sun at their wedding, he touched Jin for sure. Not sure if he touched Sun.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          Reply#20 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:45 PM EST
                                          BlackRock Steve

                                          F.Y.I...the "Enhanced" repeat specifically said in the comments that "Jacob touched them both!"

                                          • 2 votes
                                          #20.1 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:00 AM EST
                                          Dame Quixote

                                          Wow, that's incredible. I do love this twist.

                                          But wait... Why then, was Jacob himself mortal?

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #20.2 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:14 AM EST
                                          Shaun Guidolin

                                          Jacob touching them made them unable to kill themselves.. remember Jacob and Nemesis couldn't kill each other - Nem needed Ben to kill Jacob for him..

                                          There are rules here that we don't really understand yet.

                                            #20.3 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:59 AM EST
                                            Reply
                                            Offelia

                                            I know.... I was actually almost overcome with emotion when he came back to the beach as a redeemed man and an accepted member of the group. His acting really IS amazing! For the last couple episodes I had been noticing a very changed personality in him.

                                            • 1 vote
                                            Reply#21 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:47 PM EST
                                            Offelia

                                            "Miles communes with the bag..."

                                            My favorite line of the recap!!

                                            • 1 vote
                                            Reply#22 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:49 PM EST
                                            blackwidow1

                                            This episode left me more confused with regard to the “sideways” timeline than any episode before. In the episode recaps before the new episodes, they keep saying that “this shows what would have happened if Oceanic 815 didn’t crash on the island.” OK – I understand that concept. However, the differences in the character’s lives, specifically Jack having a son and Locke having a friendly relationship with his father (at least friendly enough to potentially invite him to the upcoming wedding) - I’m sure there are more that I’m not thinking of at this moment – anyway, the differences in these character’s lived were so different than the lives we were shown originally (Jack did NOT have a son when he went to Australia to get his father’s body, Locke paralyzed due to being pushed out a window by his father) that I was under the impression that the differences were because the island was eliminated from their lives altogether in 1977 rather than simply the Oceanic flight not crashing in 2004. And I don’t think I was the only one with this impression.

                                            But now, we have Ben and his father discussing DHARMA and the island? Last time we saw Ben and Roger in 1977, and please correct me if I’m wrong, was a few hours prior to the time-traveling Losties setting off the bomb. Would Roger have had time (or opportunity) to get to the sub and leave the island? And wasn’t Ben at the Temple with Richard and the Others being healed in the temple spring shortly before that?

                                            So is it now being implied that Roger and Ben left the island prior to the detonation of the bomb in 1977? Or is it being implied that since the Oceanic 815 flight never crashed on the island then all the time-traveling 1977 stuff never happened at all? Or what exactly? If anyone has any ideas, please help! I’m not sure if its relevant to the story we have now, but I would think it would be relevant to the series as a whole. Argh.

                                            Now on to the questions:

                                            • What happened at DHARMA to make Roger and Ben Linus leave?

                                            Roger realized that he didn’t want to be a workman and left as soon as he could.

                                            • Who are the six remaining candidates?

                                            Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, Sayid, Jin, and ???. I don’t think that just because Sawyer, Sayid and Jin are currently with MIB, that there isn’t the possibility for any of them to join with Jack and the gang at a future point in time. I found Ilana’s statement that there are only six candidates left interesting. Seeing all the crossed out names in the cave and at the lighthouse in previous episodes, it made me wonder if we were seeing a “countdown” type of situation. That a replacement needed to be found for Jacob before the names ran out. When Ilana said only six candidates were left, I got that “countdown” feeling again. And I don’t think whatever will happen if the names run out and a replacement is not found is something good in the eyes of Ilana. And I wonder if this sort of idea is why Hawking was always on and on about the Oceanic 6 getting back to the island or “God help us all.”

                                            • What purpose does Jacob have for Jack?

                                            Jack is Jacob’s #1 man to replace him.

                                            • Why did Nemesis promise Ben control of the Island?

                                            The offer of control over the island to Ben was similar to his promise to Sayid, that he could give him his heart’s desire. Ben always wanted power and control and to protect the island. MIB was offering him what he had always wanted in the past.

                                            • What is Widmore's plan? Who's side is he on?

                                            I’ve never really been sure what Widmore’s purpose was with regard to the island. It always seemed to me that Widmore’s main goal was to find the island to get to Ben so that Ben could be killed. Or perhaps he simply wants the island. Maybe Widmore is on his own side and could care less about the sides on the island. He did manage to have a successful life off the island and this could just be another economic venture in his eyes.

                                              Reply#23 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:49 PM EST
                                              Inchiki

                                              Hello BW1,

                                              Regarding the timelines, Bordsox-999133 has some good points in #5.2. I repeated a couple of these inconsistencies in #15. Other posters have mentioned that the sideways flashes aren't necessarily alternative realities.

                                                #23.1 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:09 AM EST
                                                BlackRock Steve

                                                Hey Blackwidow...

                                                So is it now being implied that Roger and Ben left the island prior to the detonation of the bomb in 1977?

                                                YES, I don't agree with some of your comments about the sideways flash...Inchiki up in post 15 has a good list...but from the get-go and LA X...I took it to mean that the Bomb never happened on the island! No crash means they were never there so no time travelin' and no bomb dropped by Jack and the attack of the Losties on the Swan...thus, the "incident" that happened at the Swan and for the Dharma group would be they drilled and hit the EM and a big release!! Likewise, since no time travelin' for the Losties means the Others back in '54 aren't told that the H-bomb is leaking and to bury it...so it got put in the cave and continued to leak so there is also radiation poisoning in the water, etc., thus causing the birthing problems, etc....Does this help or make sense?

                                                  #23.2 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:18 AM EST
                                                  blackwidow1

                                                  Thanks Inchiki!

                                                  After reading the above posts its nice to know that I'm not the only one having to rething the sideways flashes.

                                                    #23.3 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:20 AM EST
                                                    BlackRock Steve

                                                    bw1...not sure if you ever caught this about the "infection" thing we've seen this season with Sayid & Claire...but, we saw it before...see my post to mearth at 17.2 above!?

                                                      #23.4 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:37 AM EST
                                                      blackwidow1

                                                      Oh goody ... my tracker's not working again!

                                                      BRS - Yes, thanks to you, Inchiki and a few other posters, I think I get what you are all theorizing - that the changes we're seeing in the alt timeline were due to events as far back as the 1954 scenes - and our survivors had no effect on the island whatsoever because they were never there in the first place.

                                                      That leaves me with more questions though ... oh well, that's the fun of Lost.

                                                      • 1 vote
                                                      #23.5 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:45 AM EST
                                                      Inchiki

                                                      You're welcome, BW1. Actually I chimed in only to point out some inconsistencies in how people were approaching the second (back in LA) timeline.

                                                      Personally, I don't believe that the second timeline is an "alternate" and there's nothing that I've seen so far that contradicts my view that the explanation for the flash-sideways is found within quantum physics. I've read a little bit more on Wikipedia and discovered that what I was trying to describe as indeterminacy is closer to something called complementarity.

                                                      Here's a bit of Wikipedia on complementarity (first paragraph under Nature):

                                                      The principle states that sometimes an object can have several (apparently) contradictory properties. Sometimes we can switch back and forth between the different views, but we can never see both at the same time. But in reality, the figure exists as BOTH at the same time, but we can only perceive or view it one at a time, and never together. For example, we can think of electrons as both a particle or a wave or stream of particles depending on the situation. An object being a particle AND a wave is seemingly mutually exclusive and not possible. But an electron, in some sense, is both at once.

                                                      Some things are contradictory--In LA, father/son relations are good (Jack and David) while Island Jack has issues with Christian. As I said before, Schrodinger's cat.

                                                      Sorry to any and all that I've put asleep.

                                                      • 3 votes
                                                      #23.6 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:45 AM EST
                                                      pinkcap

                                                      Personally, I don't believe that the second timeline is an "alternate" and there's nothing that I've seen so far that contradicts my view that the explanation for the flash-sideways is found within quantum physics.

                                                      You are correct - the producers have stated that it is not an alternate world because to call it that would infer that it is not real.

                                                        #23.7 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:31 AM EST
                                                        Reply
                                                        Redchilipepper

                                                        • What happened at DHARMA to make Roger and Ben Linus leave? As others have said. The time line is different if they never went to the island so the entire sideways version differs because Jacob never touched them in that existence. So they left DHARMA by choice and he was never a drunk and Ben was never shot as a boy. My big question is why does Ben think he is a bigger loser than the boys in detention?
                                                        • Who are the six remaining candidates? Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, Jin, Desmond, Kate,
                                                        • What purpose does Jacob have for Jack? To be the protector of the island and take his place.
                                                        • Why did Nemesis promise Ben control of the Island? He thought Ben would choose the control because he is Evil. Nemesis thinks people will always choose bad when given the choice. And Ben didn’t this time which actually proved Jacob’s (before death) thoughts that Ben had changed and made a choice for the good (according to Miles after death reading of Jacob).
                                                        • What is Widmore's plan? Who's side is he on? He wants to come back to the island. He is on his own side and wants the island to himself. Because of the Game and his exile he has never been able to. I wonder how the scale has to tip to enable him to step foot on the island again?
                                                          Reply#24 - Tue Mar 9, 2010 11:56 PM EST
                                                          Redchilipepper

                                                          I should say Jacob never influenced Ben and his dad in the alternate life. I don't think he ever 'touched' Ben in the normal time line. I don't think he is a candidate.

                                                            #24.1 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:07 AM EST
                                                            mearth1961

                                                            what you are all theorizing - that the changes we're seeing in the alt timeline were due to events as far back as the 1954 scenes - and our survivors had no effect on the island

                                                            My brain is bleeding....I just don't get how that can be.

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #24.2 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:10 PM EST
                                                            Reply
                                                            Psybrchick

                                                            WOW … what an episode!! To me, the message is now clear … free will, and the choices one makes with it, are of the utmost importance in this story. Here we have been led all along to see Ben as the epitome of all that is selfish and bad, only to see that there is good in his heart (both on the island and elsewhere) and that anyone can be redeemed.

                                                            What happened at DHARMA to make Roger and Ben Linus leave?

                                                            I have believed for a long time that the presence of the crash survivors was to right wrong. Perhaps it was meant to be that the Dharma people were supposed to leave the island? What if people were supposed to leave the island, and that the participation of our friends was to make SURE that happened, and that the death of Roger was not imminent on his being killed by Jack? If so, than Roger and Ben left the island along with everyone else that evacuated.

                                                            Who are the six remaining candidates?

                                                            I don’t think the 6 numbers are the only candidates. I still believe that Charlie is going to end up being the protector of the island. He sacrificed himself for the good of everyone else … a selfless act that not only gave everyone else a chance, but ensured that Aaron would survive.

                                                            What purpose does Jacob have for Jack?

                                                            Now that Jack believes, his purpose is to make sure that everyone else gets to the final battle, including Richard.

                                                            Why did Nemesis promise Ben control of the Island?

                                                            Nemesis promises whatever he thinks will turn the soul, but does so without promising anything more than one’s superficial desires (he promises Sayid to be with the one that died in his arms, though that could also be Shannon, promises Sawyer that he will get off the island, but not in what state he will do so, etc.). He promises whatever will get that person to come to his side.

                                                            What is Widmore's plan? Who's side is he on?

                                                            Not sure what his plan is. One idea; he was ALWAS supposed to be the new “protector” of the island before Ben cast him away. Is he coming back to regain his rightful place? Were he and Eloise supposed to be the Adam and Eve?

                                                            First things first … faith and belief are becoming VERY important. That has played so much into the characters of the players; both Sun and Jin are surviving based on the belief that they can be together, and Hurley came back solely on blind faith in what Jacob told him in the cab. Obviously Richard is suffering a crisis in his, giving Jack the chance to step up as the new true believer. And the idea of redemption came full circle with Ben; with a simple act of admitting what he did wrong giving Alana cause to take him back. (Seeing that in the flash-sideways, Ben chose to help Alex rather than himself makes me think that what you are on the island can impact what you are off it.) Could the flash-sideways be dependent on how the current time plays out? Nemesis gains supporters only by appealing to their “darker” sides, this preying on their darker tendencies. While I don’t think that Claire or Sayid has redemption in their future, I believe that there is hope for Sawyer (with help from Kate). Interesting that Miles knew about Nikki and Paulo!! Does he know the truth about everyone that has died on the island? Don’t know where Widmore plays in on this … wild card?

                                                              Reply#25 - Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:00 AM EST
                                                              WhenAmI

                                                              I thought the same thing about Miles, but then realized that he can "hear" the dead, so he probably "heard" them while standing over their graves (especially since he knew they were buried alive, which no one else would have even been able to tell him).

                                                                #25.1 - Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:19 AM EST
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