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LOST: Charles Widmore Reveals "The Package"

Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
entertainment, television, tv, abc, lost, lost-in-the-vines, litv
By Steve Watts

Live Poll

What did you think of tonight's episode?

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  • 90643
    Fantastic
    31%
  • 90644
    Pretty good
    53%
  • 90645
    Mediocre
    14%
  • 90646
    Terrible
    1%

VoteTotal Votes: 272

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Sun and Jin search for each other as Nemesis reveals the nature of his inability to leave the Island.


Note: "Lost in the Vines" is made for discussion of the series "Lost" on ABC. As such, here be spoilers! We talk frankly about the events of the night, speculate about future events, and so on. Read no further if you don't want spoilers.

ABC Preview:

Sun and Jin desperately continue their search for one another, and Locke confronts his enemy.

The Big Reveal: Nemesis needs all potential candidates to leave the Island with him; Desmond has been brought to the Island by Charles Widmore to help turn the tide of the Jacob/Nemesis conflict.

Summary

A video feed watches the Nemesis camp. Nemesis comes and asks Jin how his leg is, and advises him to leave the bandage off for a little while. He sits down and asks if Sawyer told him about the cave, and Jin shares that he did tell him about the names on the wall. Nemesis tells him Kwan is a name, and he isn't sure which person it means. He says the only way they can leave is if all the names that haven't been crossed off go together. He tells him they'll look for Sun, and tells him to take care of his leg.

At airport security, Jin asks about the money he brought. The officer tells him it was confiscated and if he wants it back he'll have to fill out the paperwork. He takes is bag and says to go. He tells Sun he missed the meeting. She asks what the money was for, and he says he was sent with it and the watch. He says he doesn't ask her father questions.

Jin and Sun check into the hotel, and the clerk tells them that there is a room. Jin specifies that they should have two rooms, that they aren't married. The clerk says he sees another reservation in their name, and tells them welcome to Los Angeles.

Nemesis tells Sayid to watch the camp until he comes back. As he leaves, Sayid says he doesn't feel any emotions anymore. Nemesis tells him that may be best, since it will help him get through what's coming. Nemesis walks away and out of the camp. Jin sees him and packs his bag. Sawyer asks what he's doing, and Jin says he's getting out of here before he comes back. Sawyer says he has a deal with Widmore, but Jin insists on going to find Sun. He says he'll go to the Temple, and if she's not there he'll go to the beach. He starts to shout at Sawyer, but is hit with a dart. Then Sawyer, Kate, and Claire are hit as well. They all collapse, and a group of mercenaries led by Zoe comes to them. One asks if Jin is the guy, and Zoe says yes, so they pick him up.

=================

Miles and Frank play cards on the beach. Ben asks Ilana what they should do, and she suggests waiting for Richard to come back. Ben scoffs at the idea, but Ilana says Hurley will find him and bring him back. Ilana says that Jacob has never lied, so Richard must know what to do. Sun angrily stabs the table with a knife and walks away.

Jack approaches her, asking about the tomato plants. She says they're dead. He says he remembers when she first planted them. He asks if she doesn't believe if Alpert is coming back, and she says she doesn't care. Jack asks what she thinks about being candidates, and explains about the lighthouse and the names. Sun interrupts, saying she doesn't care about any of this. She says she doesn't want to hear about this being her destiny, she just wants to be left alone. She starts to cry as Jack leaves.

Jin knocks on Sun's door with a box. She asks what he's doing, and he says her father sent him halfway around the world with a watch so he's going to the restaurant. She invites him in to talk, and says no one will be in the restaurant now. He says it's worth a try, but she says the man works for her father so it won't be a problem. He jokes that she's just here for a shopping trip, and she asks if he thinks that's all she's here for. He says no. She unbuttons her shirt and dares him to tell her too button it. He says no, and she unbuttons another. She keeps unbuttoning and removes her shirt and they start to kiss.

Sun cuts herself on some weeds, when Nemesis appears from the bushes. She asks what he's doing here, and Nemesis tells her he found her husband. He says he promised he'd reunite them, and it took him a while, but he's with his camp. He offers to take her to him, and she says she doesn't believe him. She says he killed those people at the Temple. He says they were confused and lied to, and he didn't want to hurt them. He says any of them could come with him, and that's he same option he's giving her. He assures he wouldn't do anything against her will, and that he's giving her a choice. Sun runs away instead, and Nemesis chases after her.

=================

Nemesis continues to chase SUn through the brush, and she hits her head on a tree.

Sun wakes up in bed next to Jin. She says she'd like to run away with him. he asks how they could do that, and she says she has an account. He asks if this was her plan all along. She laughs, and asks if he's angry. He says no, but it's forbidden. She asks if he wants to be with her or not. He says of course, because he loves her. She starts to say there's something he should know, but is interrupted by a knock at the door. She says she put the sign at the door. He goes to the bathroom while she goes to answer it. The man introduces himself as Martin Keamy, a friend of her father's. He walks past the door, saying she has something for him.

Ben finds Sun laying in the brush and asks if she's alright. She asks where he is and talks about being chased in Korean. Ben tells her to slow down and tell him what happened in English. He asks who did this to her, and she says "Locke."

Nemesis returns to his camp, finding his people knocked out by darts. He pulls one out of Sayid and stirs him awake. He asks him what happened, and Sayid says they were attacked. Nemesis asks, by whom? He looks around and asks, where's Jin?

Jin wakes up in a sparse metal room. He knocks on the door and screams, but no one answers. He flicks a switch, and a hypnotic movie comes on. He turns it back off. Zoe says that was weird. Jin asks where this is, and she explains that it's room 23, where the DHARMA Initiative did subliminal explanation experiments. He starts to leave, but she shocks him with a taser. She says they went to a lot of trouble getting him off the other Island and she can't let him leave. He asks what he's doing here. She shows him some maps of electromagnetic activity, and says whoever signed them could help him out. She says it says his name, and asks if it's him. Jin asks to talk to Charles Widmore. Zoe says he's in luck, because Widmore wants to talk to him too.

Nemesis gives Sayid a gun, telling him to wrap it in plastic so it doesn't get wet. Sayid walks away, and Nemesis asks Claire if something is wrong. She asks if her name was on the wall of people that need to get off the Island. He says no, and she says then she doesn't have to get on the plane, and he doesn't need her. He says no, he needs her, and there's plenty of room no the plane for all of them. She says Aaron won't know her when she comes back. She looks at Kate and asks if her name is on the wall. Nemesis says no, but he needs Kate to get the other three people on the plane so they can get off the Island. He says when she does, whatever happens, happens.

Sawyer asks what's going on with the guns. Nemesis says they're taking a boat ride to the other Island, and Sawyer asks what he'd need a boat for if he can turn to smoke. Nemesis says if he could just fly over, why would he still be on the Island? Sawyer presses him on his reason for leaving. Nemesis says they took one of his people, and he's going to get him back.

=================

Sun takes the box, hiding Jin's shoes under the bed, and gives it to Keamy. He says her bodyguard is supposed to give him some money, and asks where Mr. Kwan is. She claims she speaks no English. They hear a knock at the door and another man enters. They spot Jin's watch near the bedside, and Keamy tells him to check the bathroom. They find Jin inside, and Keamy brings him out to welcome him. He says thank you for the watch, but asks for the money. Jin and Sun talk about what they should do, and Sun suggests giving him their money. Keamy tells his associate to go get someone else who speaks Korean.

She tells them, via the translator Mikhail, that the money was taken by customs. She offers to give him money from the bank. Keamy says that they'll take her to the bank, and Keamy will take Jin to the restaurant. Jin tells Keamy not to tell her father that they're involved. He says their secret is safe with him; he just wants the money. Mikhail takes Sun with him.

Ben argues that he didn't hurt Sun. Jack points out that her concussion left her unable to speak English. He tells her about her condition and that she'll be okay. Richard is seen coming, and he tells them to pack their bags.

Nemesis walks towards the pylons, and gunshots stop him in his tracks. Widmore's men charge out pointing guns, and he tells them he comes in peace. Widmore comes out of the jungle for the meeting. Widmore says he's obviously not John Locke, but everything else he knows is just myth. Nemesis says he knows more than that judging from the pylons, and says he took Jin from him. Widmore feigns ignorance, but Nemesis warns him that war just arrived at the Island.

=================

Jack asks Richard where he's going, and Richard asks Ben where "Locke" is. Ben tells him he's on the Hydra Island, and Richard says that Nemesis wants to leave the Island, so they need to keep it from happening. He suggests destroying the plane, but Sun objects. She asks how they'll get off the Island. Jack reveals she hit her head running from Nemesis. He asks her where he was. She shouts at him in Korean that she's not going to let him blow up the plane. She came to find her husband. She says she's important, and they need her, but she's not coming.

At the bank, Mikhail asks if there's a problem. The banker says the account has been closed. Sun says no one knows it exists but her. The banker says her father closed the account and moved the money to the main branch. She asks Mikhail why he would do that. Mikhail asks, why does she think?

Keamy leads Jin into the freezer. He hits his head and Keamy nurses it a little as he tells the other man to go pick "the Arab" up. He apologizes for the other man, and straps Jin down. He says just in case he's about to figure out what is going to happen here he doesn't want him to freak out. He says Mr. Paik was upset when he found out Jin was with her, and the money he was supposed to deliver was his fee to kill him. Jin says, in English, "thank you." Keamy tapes his mouth shut and says he's sorry, some people just aren't meant to be together.

Widmore asks why she did this, and she says he was leaving the camp. He says she should've let him leave and picked him up in the jungle. She says then he should've put a mercenary in charge instead of a geophysicist. He tells her to get the package from the submarine and take it to the infirmary. She leaves, and he apologizes to Jin for what's been done. Jin asks why he was brought here, and Widmore gives him a camera. Jin turns it on and sees pictures of his daughter. Widmore says her name is Ji Yeon, his daughter. Jin cries as he sees the pictures of her. Widmore says he has a daughter too and he knows what it's like to be kept apart. He explains that he understands why he wants to be reunited, but it would be short-lived if Nemesis ever got off the Island. He says everything they know and love would cease to be, and he came to make sure that doesn't happen. Jin asks how. Widmore offers to show him the package. Jin asks what the package is. Widmore says it's not a what, it's a who.

=================

Jin struggles, and hears gunshots. He kicks at the door, and Sayid enters. He begs for mercy, and Sayid asks who he is. Jin says he doesn't speak English, and Sayid walks away. Jin begs Sayid to free him. Sayid takes a utility knife and puts it in his hand to free himself, and wishes him good luck.

Mikhail leads Sun into the restaurant, where he finds dead bodies. He wakes up Keamy, who's barely alive, to ask who did it to him. Keamy tells him to look behind him. Jin holds a gun to his head, and tells him to put the gun down. Mikhail presses to know who killed all these people, but Jin tells him to put the gun down. Mikhail said if he was the one who did all this he would've shot him already. Mikhail starts to fight him, but Jin shoots him through the eye. Sun is in a corner crying and hurt. She reveals that she's pregnant. Jin picks her up and carries her out.

Jack tells Sun about a man he treated who hurt his head and couldn't talk. He says one of the nurses realized the man could still write. Jack hands her a pad of paper and asks her to give it a try. He says it will take her longer to get her point across, but she got her voice back. He says he went back to the garden to see if Nemesis was there, but it was gone. He says he found a tomato there, and no one told it it was supposed to die. She writes "sorry." He tells her not to worry about it. He asks what Nemesis said to her. She writes that he had Jin. Jack asks why she didn't go with him, and she says she doesn't trust him. Jack asks if she trusts him, and she nods. Jack says if she comes with them he'll help her find Jin, and get them off the Island as far as they can get. He promises, and holds out his hand.

Sawyer asks Kate where she went in her head. She asks why he's not worried, and he says he is worried, he's just good at pretending he's not. He says he's got a feeling this is almost over, and says Nemesis went to Widmore and they must have fought. But Nemesis comes back, and Sawyer says aw hell. He asks Nemesis what happened, and Nemesis says they said they didn't have Jin. Sawyer asks if he believes that. Nemesis says no. Sawyer asks where Sayid went. Nemesis mentions that there's something on the sub he didn't want him to see, and he says he doesn't like secrets.

Sayid gets out of the water and spies on the sub. Zoe and one of Widmore's men carry a man out of the sub. They drop him, and it's Desmond. Desmond and Sayid look in each others' eyes for several moments, and then Zoe and Omar pick him back up and carry him away.

Cut to LOST

The Big Questions:

  • Why does Nemesis need all of the viable candidates to leave with him?
  • What is Widmore's purpose in bringing Desmond with him to the Island?

Lost in the Vines Trivia Question:

What was Jin's room number at the hotel?

This Week in Original Articles:

Once again those who write original articles this year will be entered (once per week) in this year's contest. Contributing original articles or being the first to answer the trivia questions are the ways to be entered, so feel free to write!

  • Who made the frozen donkey wheel on 'Lost'? (Michael Sautter)

Next, on Lost: Happily Ever After

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

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Steve Watts

Another pretty good episode, though nothing spectacular. It was pretty self-contained, and I like the Jin/Sun love story quite a bit. It was really touching seeing him look at his daughter for the first time. I also dug seeing Jack make his own promise to Nemesis' promise. Interestingly, it was a parallel promise. I really think this was another step towards building Jack as the next Jacob. He's more confident, self-assured, and pretty likable.

Kate on the other hand... I was glad to hear Nemesis basically tell Claire that once his goals are secure, she can do whatever she wants. I know they aren't actually going to kill Kate, but a guy can hope.

Why does Nemesis need all of the viable candidates to leave with him?

I don't think this is a big Island mystery, more a part of the mythology we're supposed to accept. But it does open some insights. If he needs the candidates to leave with him, it probably means he would have needed Jacob to leave with him too. But Jacob would never agree to that, and gathering the candidates to leave wouldn't matter as long as Jacob lived. What's important here is that it has to be a choice. Even if he tricks them and tempts them with their utmost desires, he's still making it their own choice. Jacob would never make that conscious choice, so he had to be removed. After that, he could start the more tedious, but overall easier, task of gathering candidates to leave.

What is Widmore's purpose in bringing Desmond with him to the Island?

Anyone's guess, but it sounds an awful lot like Desmond is Widmore's trump card. He was basically brought on as a weapon, which is both cool and terrifying. It makes him notably expendable in mythological terms, and that promo for next week certainly looked somber.

  • 11 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:40 PM EDT
BlackRock Steve

Hi Steve, I highly agreed with your comments, insights and "cheers" for this show...I really liked the sun/Jin romance and Jack/Sun moment too. But, either it's because I'm really tired or am missing something but I don't understand your logic...

If he needs the candidates to leave with him, it probably means he would have needed Jacob to leave with him too.

How do you go there about needing Jacob to leave? I just assumed that if there were no candidates to assume Jacob's job because they all freely chose to leave with Nem, then "the game" is over and he "wins" his freedom.

  • 3 votes
#1.1 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:00 PM EDT
Steve Watts

How do you go there about needing Jacob to leave?

Well, my reasoning is that he always needed Jacob to leave with him in the first place. I figure they're linked, yin and yang, and for one to go they both have to go. That's why Nemesis was so angry with Jacob; by choosing to stay, he was forcing Nemesis to say too. By killing Jacob, he made his job both easier and harder: he had to convince more people to leave, but they aren't as informed and resolved on the issue as Jacob was.

  • 5 votes
#1.2 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:29 PM EDT
BlackRock Steve

So, do you see Jacob as the original one who "imprisoned" Nem on the island and his "jailer" more or less, or that the 2 of them were put there in their respective roles by another or others?

  • 3 votes
#1.3 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:38 PM EDT
One Miscreant

What is Widmore's purpose in bringing Desmond with him to the Island?

Desmond turned the key, brotha. EM went kinda nuts. Des is the EM connection.

  • 3 votes
#1.4 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:38 PM EDT
Steve Watts

So, do you see Jacob as the original one who "imprisoned" Nem on the island and his "jailer" more or less, or that the 2 of them were put there in their respective roles by another or others?

The jailer analogy is my interpretation right now, but it's hard to say -- especially since we don't know if Jacob is the first protector of the Island. Maybe at one point he was a candidate too.

  • 5 votes
#1.5 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:07 AM EDT
T Bourlon

"I also dug seeing Jack make his own promise to Nemesis' promise. Interestingly, it was a parallel promise."

Yes, and with his LEFT hand instead of Nemesis' RIGHT hand! Kind of like looking in a mirror?

  • 9 votes
#1.6 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:28 AM EDT
Superman2001

The jailer analogy is my interpretation right now, but it's hard to say -- especially since we don't know if Jacob is the first protector of the Island. Maybe at one point he was a candidate too.

If that were the case, it would mean that Nemesis predates Jacob, right? From the conversations Jacob had with Richard and with Nemesis last week, I got the impression that this disagreement has always just been between the two of them. I wonder if the Island was put there specifically to exile and contain Nemesis.

  • 2 votes
#1.7 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:53 PM EDT
Sue B.-1103360

Smokie needs the canidates to leave with him willingly, because he can't kill them; just like he couldn't kill Jacob. I remember he asked Jacob to "just let me leave", so I guess that he could also leave if Jacob (or his replacement) gave permission. Like that would ever happen.

About Desmond, I think this: We know by now that everyone who either crashed on the island in a plane, boat or whatever was brought to the island by Jacob. Desmond's sail boat went high and dry on the island so he too was brought by Jacob and is possibly another canidate? Don't remember if he was on the wall in the cave or not. Another strange thing about Desmond was that he never really interacted with the "others" He was immediately snagged by that Dharma dude in the hatch. After he got out of the hatch, he left the island relatively quickly. He's was already told by Eloise that the island wasn't thru with him, so he may be a unkown to smokie canadate or some other kind of Ace in the hole. Just a thought

  • 3 votes
#1.8 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:30 PM EDT
eriq samson

Sue - he can't kill them - on the island; he has already promised Claire that once on the plane and off the island .....

Has anybody noticed that each week they are emphasizing certain characters like the producers owed each actor the primary role in one episode? Like Jack basically had a cameo in this one, it was all about Jin and Sun; there was a Sayid episode, a Ben episode, a Hurley episode, a Sawyer episode, a Locke episode - particularly in the "flash sideways" parts (which suggest that when they reset time Locke will be alive - working for a company Hurley owns)

  • 1 vote
#1.9 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:32 PM EDT
OnlyChild

eriq

It is a good way for each actor to get his final turn in the spotlight. I hadn't thought of it that way.

    #1.10 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:21 PM EDT
    Tyrion81

    Steve,

    My only issue with your theory is that, (and I'm not sure if mentioned somewhere else), if MIB needed Jacob to go with him to get off the island, how come MIB never snuck away when Jacob was off island recruiting?

    • 3 votes
    #1.11 - Thu Apr 1, 2010 8:45 AM EDT
    Susanaree

    The jailer analogy is my interpretation right now, but it's hard to say -- especially since we don't know if Jacob is the first protector of the Island. Maybe at one point he was a candidate too.

    BRS and Steve - I wondered the same thing in a post last week - was Jacob a candidate at one time too, and guessed that Smokey has always been there, albeit not always in the same human form (Richard-era MIB and currrent Flocke). "Jailer" seems an appropriate analogy. Jacob's role is always to keep evil at bay - bottled up - and Jacob knew (since he obviously replaced a previous candidate) that he'd have to find a replacement.

    As far as recruiting off-island - I'm wondering if Jacob somehow leaves his essence on the island to protect it, while he is off selecting candidates - something like bi-location.

    • 2 votes
    #1.12 - Thu Apr 1, 2010 1:02 PM EDT
    say what??

    As far as recruiting off-island - I'm wondering if Jacob somehow leaves his essence on the island to protect it, while he is off selecting candidates - something like bi-location.

    Like Walt. The Others were interested in his ability to seemingly be in two places at once.

    About the candidates, why is there a limited number (the last 6), how many did Jacob have to start with, how/when/why was that number chosen and by whom/what? So many questions, not enough answers!

    • 1 vote
    #1.13 - Thu Apr 1, 2010 1:15 PM EDT
    Reply
    NCL70506

    Damn 'Dancing With the Stars' for taking away the enhanced episode !!

    • 18 votes
    Reply#2 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:44 PM EDT
    Anon Emous

    DITTO!!!!!!

    • 6 votes
    #2.1 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:13 PM EDT
    BlackRock Steve

    So do you all think that it's always been C&L's and ABC's plan, that when we got to the final 8 epeisodes...no more Enhanced episodes...like, ok, folks, you're on your own the rest of the way to the end!?

    • 4 votes
    #2.2 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:19 PM EDT
    NCL70506

    BRS - It would not surprise me! I am afraid this is just the introduction to the feeling we will have when Lost is done.

    • 7 votes
    #2.3 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:19 AM EDT
    BlackRock Steve

    NCL, Sadly, I was thinking the same thing!!

    • 3 votes
    #2.4 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:25 AM EDT
    Lost in Space and Time 316

    Agree on all points. I'm sad.

    • 4 votes
    #2.5 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:45 AM EDT
    belle42

    They do this each season -- they treat the Lost Enhanced as a 'filler' until Dancing With the Stars premieres. Sucks, but that's the programming executives for you :(

    • 2 votes
    #2.6 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:17 AM EDT
    Reply
    Anjillina
  • Why does Nemesis need all of the viable candidates to leave with him? Because if any of them are left on the island, they might be able to bring him back and trap him on the island again. If he would succeed in getting them all off the island, he'd just kill them all after they got away. No more rules if they all choose evil and are no longer candidates.
  • What is Widmore's purpose in bringing Desmond with him to the Island? OK, we all knew Desmond would show up again some time. But none of this part makes sense to me. Now Widmore seems like a good guy (which we've discussed the possibility of before). But if he's a good guy, why is he so mean to Desmond? It doesn't make any sense. He was just a total clod to Desmond all those years. I just don't get it.
  • Once again - the "flash sideways" obviously isn't. Jin - Sun - not married. Just hooking up. AND, she's pregnant.

    Cheers: Desmond is finally back. Hurrah! And I think I actually opined a few weeks ago that he might be the package! Cool. Sun running away from Locke and not believing him. Ben trying to convince Ileana that he didn't bonk Sun on the head and saying "Why don't you believe me" and she says "Because you're speaking." Funny. Also cool, Locke confirming that Kate is no longer a candidate. And cool how they worked in Mikael again.

    Jeers: Sayid is really creepy now. So is Claire. I think the whole "Sun hit her head so can't speak English" thing is stupid. The show needed more of something - Hurley maybe. It got a little draggy. Oh, and I hate that new chick Zoe - bleah. Boring and irritating.

    • 9 votes
    #3 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:45 PM EDT
    Syntactic Tree

    I think the whole "Sun hit her head so can't speak English" thing is stupid.

    Although it seems contrived and a little ad hoc for the plot, it's linguistically/scientifically true. While there are different types of aphasia, comprehension without production is indeed one type. There are documented studies in which one or more entire languages is/are lost.

    • 8 votes
    #3.1 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:01 PM EDT
    blackwidow1

    But if he's a good guy, why is he so mean to Desmond? It doesn't make any sense. He was just a total clod to Desmond all those years. I just don't get it.

    LOL Anjillina - I had to chuckle at this comment because its the same thought that goes through my mind everytime my daughter (she's 17) brings home a boy - friend, boyfriend, it doesn't matter - and my bf and son act like total clods to these nice boys. I don't get it either. I think its that protective father thing. I'm sure any of the fathers on this board could explain it to both of us.

    • 5 votes
    #3.2 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:06 PM EDT
    BlackRock Steve

    I think its that protective father thing. I'm sure any of the fathers on this board could explain it to both of us

    bw1...Well, don't look to me as I liked almost everyone of the guys my daughter brought home, and by the time she got to 29, 8 or 9 guys later and brought home my now son-in-law who I think is GREAT...I told her if she didn't marry him I was going to disown her...but then, that's just me.

    • 8 votes
    #3.3 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:12 PM EDT
    blackwidow1

    BRS - I have a feeling the rules don't apply to you. You seem like an open-minded guy. We need more of your kind in the world IMHO

    • 6 votes
    #3.4 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:27 PM EDT
    pinkcap

    But if he's a good guy, why is he so mean to Desmond? It doesn't make any sense. He was just a total clod to Desmond all those years. I just don't get it.

    Anjillina - I think it was part of a plan. Remember what he said to Eloise at the hospital about the sacrifice he had to make with his daughter? I think he was against Desmond marrying Penny because he was an important part of this grand plan, not because he didn't approve of him. The sacrifice he made was the lack of contact with his daughter. I tend to believe that Jacob and Widmore set up his exile from the island so that the MIB wouldn't suspect that Widmore was on Jacob's side. Why didn't he go with the freighter people if he really wanted to be back on the island? Because it wasn't time for him to go back yet.

    • 3 votes
    #3.5 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:30 PM EDT
    pinkcap

    Anjillina - I think that Sun hitting her head might have looked a bit contrived, but if you think about it, when Sun first arrived on the island, she knew how to speak English, but pretended not to because she didn't want Jin to know she could speak English. She understood what people were saying, she just never spoke English. It looks like she has come full circle tonight.

    • 3 votes
    #3.6 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:11 AM EDT
    T Bourlon

    I think Sun's inability to speak English is a sign that the two realities are starting to merge. Her flashsideways counterpart hasn't learned English yet, and in one scene she looked at herself in the mirror as if she didn't recognize herself - right about when the "bonk" happened. But if she were knocked out, why didn't NemLocke just carry her off? I know he SAID he wouldn't force her, but he's also lying all over the place about everything.

    • 6 votes
    #3.7 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:35 AM EDT
    mrosebud42

    Sun's loss of the english language struck me as interesting. Now, when she and Jin rejoin, he will be translating for her. I think there is some relevance to it. Be it a role reversal for Sun and Jin or something more.

    • 9 votes
    #3.8 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:55 AM EDT
    FortifiedHooligan

    Jeers: Sayid is really creepy now. So is Claire. I think the whole "Sun hit her head so can't speak English" thing is stupid. The show needed more of something - Hurley maybe. It got a little draggy. Oh, and I hate that new chick Zoe - bleah. Boring and irritating.

    I'll tell you what it didn't need more of....COMMERCIALS. Jesus H. Christ it felt like half an episode. There were breaks that lasted longer than some segments...and less of the "V" countdown would have been nice too. LOST has been their most popular show....ever, kind of a kick in the pants to have a counter like that as if this was just a filler series of theirs.

    • 13 votes
    #3.9 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:06 AM EDT
    say what??

    I agree! The "V" countdown was a totally annoying distraction. I watch the show and record it, then rewatch the next day and skip all the annoying commercials.

    • 6 votes
    #3.10 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:13 AM EDT
    Lori-1673701

    Yeah, the count down was also blocking most of Sun's written messages when talking with Jack!

    • 5 votes
    #3.11 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:35 AM EDT
    Pfemm

    I think he was against Desmond marrying Penny because he was an important part of this grand plan, not because he didn't approve of him.

    I agree with this... Maybe he knew the future that awaited Desmond and that in the end Desmond had a role to fill and it didn't include Penny. and his disapproval was an attempt at saving her the inevitable heartache that would result from losing Des.

    • 7 votes
    #3.12 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:42 AM EDT
    JohnBoy813

    Agreed they could have lost the 'V' countdown, maybe have it on for 10 seconds after each commerical would have been plenty.

    T Bourlon, we do not have proof 'yet' that Sun does not know English. I remember when the customs agent was first speaking with them she had a look on her face that made me believe that she did understand. And when the female customs inspector said to her 'If you understand me you can bring all of this to and end', and she thought about it for a second before answering "No English". I do not think she was ready to tip her hand. Yes I know that in the 'normal' reality she did not learn English until she was preparing to leave Jin, but in this 'alternate' one she may have. Especially since she said that they should just run away and stay in the U.S..

    • 6 votes
    #3.13 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:04 AM EDT
    Anjillina

    I guess you're right about Widmore - either it was part of the Plan or he just didn't like Desmond because of Dad syndrome. And I guess he could still be lying. But I don't know - he just seemed kind of nice last night. I never know what's going to happen though - I'm usually wrong. I still remember him snapping that kid's neck like he was totally expendable back in the 50s though. I could never trust someone like that.

    • 3 votes
    #3.14 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:17 AM EDT
    Spikegary

    In the sideways universe, I don't think Sun couldn't speak/understand english-I got the impression she chose not to let people know (like in Season one, even her husband didn't know)-just my thoughts.....

    • 2 votes
    #3.15 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:28 PM EDT
    Reply
    NotIntoMyths

    Isn't the real question from this episode about the nature of Widmore's stake in the "battle"? Is he lying when he says Flocke/MIB will destroy humanity? If not, then he must be on the right side. If so (which would be totally in character for him), then does that make Flocke/MIB NOT a force for evil?

    • 3 votes
    Reply#4 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:47 PM EDT
    blackwidow1

    Hey there NotIntoMyths,

    I don't think that Charles is lying when he says that everyone that they both know and love will cease to be if that thing that's masquerading as Locke gets off this island. After tonight's episode, I'm wondering (and strongly believing) that if Locke gets off the island, the sideways timeline will be the timeline that continues to exist and the 2007 will cease be erased from existence. Which means that Sun (who is pregnant in 2004) will miscarry and could possibly die from her gunshot wounds thus leaving Jin without those that he loves. But if . , but if Locke does not get off the island the 2007 island will continue.

    Now this is predicated on the theory that two timelines can't exist at the same time.

    • 5 votes
    #4.1 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:23 PM EDT
    BlackRock Steve

    Now this is predicated on the theory that two timelines can't exist at the same time.

    bw1: As in they can't...given the the title of the book that Jacob was reading...they must converge! I like your theory and also thought of it when watching that Charles W. scene. I think it is either that, or my original theory....that MIB is 'modeled' after the character of Osiris...a good king betrayed & killed by his evil brother, Set, and doomed to serve as the Final Judge for the dead souls...he will get justice and be finally released Set is eventually defeated but unfortunately for us...when that happens then it;s the End of the World!!

    • 3 votes
    #4.2 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:44 PM EDT
    blackwidow1

    But if . , but if Locke does not get off the island the 2007 island will continue.

    Heavens to Betsy ... I will not drink wine and post on LITV. It was supposed to be:

    But if Locke does not get off the island, the 2007 timeline will continue to exist. Sun and Ji Yeon will exist, but will Jin get to be together with them? (OK I added that second sentence).

    BRS - Yes, I believe that the timelines must come together at some point. They must converge. And when two opposites converge there is often violence/discord/upheaval/mayhem. And I think we are going to see this idea play out very soon.

    • 3 votes
    #4.3 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:58 PM EDT
    BlackRock Steve

    bw1,

    ...And when two opposites converge there is often violence/discord/upheaval/mayhem. And I think we are going to see this idea play out very soon.

    I believe the same and have for awhile, but...I'm thinking that they're going to take this right to the last 2 episodes or maybe even the finale before it plays out!!

    • 2 votes
    #4.4 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:41 AM EDT
    ranturn

    He says everything they know and love would cease to be, and he came to make sure that doesn't happen.

    When I heard Widmore say "cease to be", my first thought was what kind of lifeforce is MIB? And where have I heard that word lifeforce before? From the movie "Cocoon"?

    • 2 votes
    #4.5 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:11 AM EDT
    BlackRock Steve

    Whoa, ranturn, are you going where I think you're going?? I don't know if C & L would go there after all the mythology stuff they've done...but then there is the whole theory of 'visitors' who came once and started the whole Egyptian, Mayan, Inca mythologies, etc. based on the various ancient wall paintings, etc., that have been discovered.

    • 2 votes
    #4.6 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:19 AM EDT
    ranturn

    No, BRS, I'm not implying that! Really! But that was the thought that went through my mind when he said it.

    • 2 votes
    #4.7 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:57 AM EDT
    NCL70506

    blackwidow1 - I am really laughing at your "Heavens to Betsy" comment! Too cute!

    • 4 votes
    #4.8 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:06 AM EDT
    Shaun Guidolin

    if it's cease to exist -- did the TV show even happen? lol

    • 3 votes
    #4.9 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:36 PM EDT
    minklady

    With all this talk about about the sideways flash, and what will be the "true" 2007, it makes me think about some of the theories about the sideways world. One was that the sideways flash shows us what happened if Jacob did not touch/interfere with the candidates. Now I’m wondering about that theory since if I remember correctly Jin and Sun were touched by Jacob AFTER they were married, and the sideways flash they are not married at all. Were they touched before they were married?

    And another thing, in the Room 23 scene, did anyone else notice the sculpted arms of Jin??? I don't remember him being that buff!!

    Let me say that I love chatter about the show. My life just doesn't afford me the time to watch the darn show when I want, and the IT department at work has it set up that I can't comment on anything while I'm there. and at home I have a horrible connection most of the time that it just isn't worth getting on when I get home. But I thank all of you just the same for helping me figure all of this out.

    • 1 vote
    #4.10 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:27 PM EDT
    eriq samson

    I think the "cease to be" part means that if Nemesis gets off the island the universe reverts to the world when he was imprisoned (thousands and thousands of year ago) and then goes forward with him loose and killing everyone in his hatred of life so they would never have been born

    I think the "flash sideways" universe is what happens if they eliminate / contain him for eternity - the universe resets to before Jacob was involved with the first of them and the differences you see are what Jacob was not around to influence

    • 1 vote
    #4.11 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:43 PM EDT
    Reply
    BlackRock Steve
    • Why does Nemesis need all of the viable candidates to leave with him? Jacob is “Dead” so if he takes all the candidates with him, then I assume “by rule”, Game Over…Nem wins!
    • What is Widmore's purpose in bringing Desmond with him to the Island? He’s somebody’s son, the ‘constant’ to the island, a cork of a guy, and who wouldn’t want an Aussie for a drinking partner!!

    OK now, is it me or is it finally readily apparent that there is a designed episode "pattern" to the final season: give the folks a big "reveal" epi. followed by a plot development with a question or two answered!?

    • 4 votes
    Reply#5 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:50 PM EDT
    ranturn

    What is Widmore's purpose in bringing Desmond with him to the Island? He’s somebody’s son, the ‘constant’ to the island, a cork of a guy,

    I like that you brought up that he is the constant to the island. Good point! And a cork of a guy.....great description!

    • 2 votes
    #5.1 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:22 PM EDT
    Lost in Space and Time 316

    Remember when Daniel wrote in his journal that "Desmond is my constant", and now we know that Daniel is Widmore's son...... I don't know what that all means, but maybe that is how Widmore is connected to Desmond?

    • 7 votes
    #5.2 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:51 AM EDT
    Santa Rosa Mental Health Institute

    What is Widmore's purpose in bringing Desmond with him to the Island? He’s somebody’s son, the ‘constant’ to the island, a cork of a guy, and who wouldn’t want an Aussie for a drinking partner!!

    Good points, except Des isn't an Aussie ; )

    • 1 vote
    #5.3 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:27 PM EDT
    jograyghost

    I hope you aren't saying that Desmond is another Widmore son. That could be why he didn't want Penny to marry him. EWW!

    • 2 votes
    #5.4 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:29 PM EDT
    Reply
    blackwidow1

    Good episode that moved things along. Old questions answered but only a few new ones presented. Alas.

    I’ve never done the Cheers/Jeers thing but I think I will this week. Here it goes:

    CHEERS:

    Desmond!!!!!

    Sun and Jin back together again. Other than Desmond and Penny & Sawyer and Juliet, theirs was always my favorite relationship.

    Jin getting to see his daughter for the first time.

    Sun taking Jack’s hand. I’ve long thought that our people on the island need to get together and stop “following” anyone. Last week before Richard went stomping off into the jungle to dig up Isabella’s cross, he yelled something to the effect of “Maybe we should stop following Jacob and start following someone else.” I thought, good lord man stop following and start thinking for yourself. Thank heaven for Sun tonight. She’s given me hope that these people may just starting trusting their own bond and stop living for someone else’s driving purpose.

    Ben - Why won’t you believe me? Ilana - Because you’re speaking. LOL!

    JEERS:

    Far too many commercials

    The previews gave me more anticipation for next week’s show. Typically it was the show that made me not want to wait. Update – just freeze framed the previews for next week. Got all excited about the people in the raft. There’s Sayid, Sun, Kate holding a baby, Hurley and Jack. I though whoo hoo! They are all back together again! Oh no, I do believe these are all clips from old shows. Damn these Lost creators. They want me to lose my mind. I know they do.

    Alas - Only two questions this week!!! Somehow I think we will all still find plenty to discuss until next Tuesday.

    • Why does Nemesis need all of the viable candidates to leave with him?

    Mirror opposite of the directive that Ben, Hawking, the “ghost” of Christian Shepard, et al spoke of in earlier seasons … everyone (the Oceanic 6) who left must return to the island. And, if they all choose to leave with him … ie. They all are on his “side” … then there will be no more candidates left to replace Jacob, leaving MIB free to go. Maybe part of the rules of the game is that Jacob only had a finite number of people he could attempt to influence and/or use to prove MIB wrong. Will have to think about this some more.

    • What is Widmore's purpose in bringing Desmond with him to the Island?

    We’ve been told before that the rules don’t apply to Desmond. I’ve always thought that this was in regard to time travel. And maybe it still is. If Desmond can be a conduit between the two timelines as he’s been in the past, then maybe Widmore is planning on using him for the same purpose as Daniel used him to contact his mother during the time jumps. This could prove to be very interesting but again, I’m going to have to think about this some more.

    • 7 votes
    Reply#6 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:57 PM EDT
    ranturn

    The previews gave me more anticipation for next week’s show.

    I like the title that said........A New Path Is Found. Great implications!

    • 2 votes
    #6.1 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:26 PM EDT
    pinkcap

    We’ve been told before that the rules don’t apply to Desmond

    Black Widow - maybe by rules, they mean the rules that Jacob, MIB, Ben, and Widmore have talked about and live by. Maybe for some reason he is exempt from these rules.

    • 3 votes
    #6.2 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:47 PM EDT
    pinkcap

    ranturn -

    I also loved the implications of the title.

    • 2 votes
    #6.3 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:48 PM EDT
    BlackRock Steve

    We’ve been told before that the rules don’t apply to Desmond

    Black Widow - maybe by rules, they mean the rules that Jacob, MIB, Ben, and Widmore have talked about and live by. Maybe for some reason he is exempt from these rules.

    Actually, after I read bw1's reference about the time travel, it occurred to me that maybe Desmond is "special" on multiple counts....the island/game rules don't apply to him for the same reason that the time travel "rules" don't seem to apply to him...the EM exposure he had!!?....He became like a "blessed one"...free of the rules and constraints?? ...ok, you can tell me it's past my bedtime...but I like this idea!

    • 4 votes
    #6.4 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:59 PM EDT
    blackwidow1

    pinkcap,

    So you're saying that maybe Desmond can actually destroy/kill the game players? Interesting idea. Desmond is the ultimate loophole. Jacob/MIB, Ben/Charles ... they are the constants. The variables ... the people ... think for themselves and the outcome of the game changes. The variables ... through their belief and trust in Desmond ... will find a new path. I like that. I like that a lot.

    • 4 votes
    #6.5 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:14 AM EDT
    BlackRock Steve

    It actually makes the most sense...and a logical reason why Charles W. would bring Desmond to the island...and the "ultimate" explanation of what Ellie meant when she told Desmond that the island wasn't done with him...and originally when she told him it was his destiny to "save the world"!!

    • 5 votes
    #6.6 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:46 AM EDT
    NCL70506

    The previews that really caught my attention were "Love lost" and "Lives lost". This does not sound good; it sounds very sad. And there was mention of someone having to make a sacrifice.

    I really like these ideas about Desmond.

    I think one of Widmore's men asked Zoe how much she gave Desmond, and she replied something like 'I don't know, enough to knock him out for the trip.' I guess it's the standard protocol to drug people when they are brought to the Island, as we have seen in the past. Poor Desmond looked pretty rough, and they were dragging him. And, it was kind of creepy when Sayid was hanging out in the water watching them. Sayid has a gun and was left there by Nemesis for some purpose. That worries me with Jin and Desmond there too.

    Something I found odd: Nemesis comes back from Hydra Island and Sawyer asks what happened. Nemesis reminds Sawyer about the locked room on the sub that may be hiding something. Sawyer acknowledges this. Then Nemesis says "I don't like secrets." What did that mean?

    If the secret Nemesis is referring to is what was behind that locked door and it was Desmond in there, then that really supports these ideas that Desmond is not subject to the rules, and the one that can change the "game". Nemesis seemed irritated about this secret when he talked to Sawyer.

    That leads me to another question. Is Desmond the package, or is he just another part of Widmore's plan? The reason I wonder is this - Widmore gives this speech to Jin about also having a daughter and understanding the need to be with her and Sun, etc. Then he offers to show Jin the package. Now, if Desmond is the package, what effect would that really have on Jin? Not much that I can think of right now. So, maybe the package is someone who really means something to Jin, like his daughter that he just saw for the first time in the pictures. I am beginning to think that Jin will have to make a sacrifice and not be able to reunite with Sun forever. It pointed to that in the sideways world a little bit, when Keamy was talking to Jin about Sun and saying "some people are just not meant to be together."

    And lastly, we got to see Room 23 again - the room where Walt was tested and Karl was brainwashed. I wonder if there is any significance to Widmore's people putting Jin in that room or if it's just another way for the writers/producers to show us things from earlier seasons.

    • 4 votes
    #6.7 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:00 AM EDT
    Mike-780301

    Nemesis saying "I don't like secrets" was the reason he left Sayid at Hydra, to spy on Widmore and find out what the package was. Sawyer had asked him where Sayid was.

    Desmond was certaily the package, as he said about the package "Not what, but who"

    • 2 votes
    #6.8 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:40 AM EDT
    pinkcap

    NCL - I think that the MIB saying I don't like secrets was because Widmore had a secret and he did not have a clue as to what it could be. The MIB has been visiting Jacob's cave and he's been pretending to be speaking for Jacob when he used the body of Christian Shephard. He thinks he knows what Jacob's plans for the candidates are. I think he's upset about not knowing this part of Jacob's plan. Even if he knew Widmore was returning, he thought that he would be returning by himself. He doesn't know who or what made the journey with Widmore.

    Mike, I agree. He said the package was a who and told Zoe to get him now. I know some people think there has to be more to it than this, but I think Desmond being back on the island is a big deal (maybe I should say big &#*% deal).

    • 2 votes
    #6.9 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:56 AM EDT
    NCL70506

    Thanks guys, that makes sense. I am still not sure why Widmore wants to show the package aka Desmond to Jin. Maybe it has something to do with Zoe questioning Jin about the electromagnetism on the Island (because Jin's name was on the map) and that Desmond was exposed to the electromagnetism?

    • 4 votes
    #6.10 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:06 PM EDT
    kcjhawk

    I think that in addition to Locke not liking Widmore's secret, he was warning Sawyer that Sawyer better not have any secrets.

    • 3 votes
    #6.11 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:04 PM EDT
    pinkcap

    kcjhawk - I think you're exactly right.

    • 1 vote
    #6.12 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:44 PM EDT
    kcjhawk

    pinkcap: I like the way you think! ;>)

    • 1 vote
    #6.13 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:51 PM EDT
    Reply
    Herbcules74

    Questions:

  • Why does Nemesis need all of the viable candidates to leave with him?
  • Does he really need the candidates to come with him, or does he just need them together so he can have them killed. Obviously they have to choose to go with him. Otherwise he could have just taken Sun after she knocked herself out on the tree limb. The candidates have to go with him on their own "free will." Maybe as long as there is still someone there that can potentially be the new Jacob he can't leave.

    What is Widmore's purpose in bringing Desmond with him to the Island?

    We have always known that Desmond is special. Maybe he is a conduit that is needed for whatever power Jacob had to keep Nemesis on the island to pass into the new Jacob.

    What I would like to know is how does the sonic fence stop Nemesis and how did they discover that it stopped him? Another thing that stuck out to me in this episode is when Widmore is talking with Jin and he says that if Nemesis gets off the island that everyone they know and love will "Cease to be". That's a curious way to put it. Whay not say that if Nemesis gets off the island he will kill everyone. What did he mean by they will cease to be? It reminds me of the movie Dogma. In that movie two angles that have been banished from heaven are looking for a "loophole" to get back in. The only problem is that if they get back in it will mean they proved God wrong, and since God is supposed to be infallible that the result would be that they would unmake creation and that everything will cease to be. Is this like that movie? If Nemesis gets off the island will he be unmaking creation?

    Cheers: Nemesis when he is talking with Claire about Kate, " Whatever happens, happens!"

    Mikhail getting shot through the eye.

    Miles, "Maybe if Richard is covered in Bacon Hugo could track him."

    • 9 votes
    Reply#7 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:58 PM EDT
    blackwidow1

    Hey Herb,

    I posted a theory as to your "cease to be" question up in 4.1. In case you wanted a theory LOL.

    • 2 votes
    #7.1 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:30 PM EDT
    BlackRock Steve

    Herb....and 4.2 for my alternative theory/meaning!

    • 2 votes
    #7.2 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:51 PM EDT
    Reply
    Anon Emous

    Unfortunately, kind of a MEHpisode for me.

    Not enough pushing forward of the plot, and got more than a bit frustrated w/ Keamy Walken... this guy tends to mumble a la Brando. May need to rewatch online, w/ captions.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#8 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:59 PM EDT
    ranturn

    I actually liked this episode, because it did give us some tidbits of information even though it left us with more questions. Is Desmond really "The Package", Does Sun die from her wounds in the sideways world? Why is Zoe interested in pockets of electro-magnetism?

    What was Locke really insinuating to Claire? He tells Claire that Kate’s name is not on the wall. Not anymore, but that he needs Kate to get people on the plane. After that, “Whatever happens, happens”. So, he just gave the go ahead to Claire to kill Kate once her task has been accomplished. But I found it interesting that Claire was even able to think ahead about seeing Aaron again and knowing that he would not recognize her as his mother.

    Something else I found interesting was Sayid’s reaction upon seeing Desmond. He certainly felt an emotion then.

    Things we did find out tonight: In Sideways world, Jin was Sun’s bodyguard; Charles Widmore is certainly aware of the mystique surrounding the actual inhabitant of Locke’s body; Jin finally saw his daughter via the camera Widmore gave him. (Very, very touching scene.) Zoe is a geo-physicist.

    Zoe must have ties to Daniel Farrady and perhaps that is whom she is looking for on the island?

    They kept showing the “Caution Keep Door Closed” sign on the refrigerator. Too bad Jin didn’t read English. If he had, Sun might not have been shot.

    The use of the color red on inanimate objects was a major symbol of the blood that was about to be shed by Sun (and perhaps the foretelling of bloodshed in the upcoming war?) The color red is associated with bravery, happiness, purity, lust, good luck, anger, blood. From the red flowers upon checking in at the hotel, red drapes in her hotel room, red lamps on the nightstands, the red bumps that she and Jin had on their heads, the red dress their daughter was wearing in the video, to the remark she made to Jack about the tomatoes all being dead. All drawing attention to blood. And Keamy’s remark, “Hands off the bosses’ daughter” – which he said was a cardinal rule.

    On a lighter note: Funniest line was of course from Miles: “Unless Richard is covered in bacon grease, Hurley won’t be able to track him.”

    • 6 votes
    #9 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:14 PM EDT
    Lori-1673701

    Things we did find out tonight: In Sideways world, Jin was Sun’s bodyguard

    ranturn: Keamy stated that he was to take Jin out and the money he was delivering was his pay to do it.

    • 2 votes
    #9.1 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:21 PM EDT
    BlackRock Steve

    Zoe must have ties to Daniel Farrady and perhaps that is whom she is looking for on the island?

    Wow, ranturn, great catch...I hadn't thought of that one and very very possible!! Also, your "red" and the cardinal rule connection...I must be tired as I missed all that!

    There were so many great funny lines tonight...Miles, the Ben/Illana, Sawyer...they really do just keep getting better!

    • 2 votes
    #9.2 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:27 PM EDT
    ranturn

    Sun takes the box, hiding Jin's shoes under the bed, and gives it to Keamy. He says her bodyguard is supposed to give him some money,

    Keamy uses the word bodyguard, which I assumed was Jin's role to Sun.

    • 2 votes
    #9.3 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:33 PM EDT
    blackwidow1

    So, he just gave the go ahead to Claire to kill Kate once her task has been accomplished

    ranturn ... this is awesome. I never looked at it this way. This is why I love this board. I always discover a different way of looking at things.

    While basically giving permission to off the competition is crappy (to say the least), I find it interesting that Locke says, "whatever happens, happens" which is forward thinking rather than the "things will always be the same" idea that is conveyed with the "whatever happened, happened" phrase that we are used to hearing.

    • 3 votes
    #9.4 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:39 PM EDT
    say what??

    More red symbolism: When Sun and Jin were in bed, Jin was in the light and sitting up while Sun was out of the light and lying down with her head on the pillow that was white with splotches of red that looked like blood – and later Sun was shot. Does it also foreshadow events on the island? Later, in the scene when Sun gets the watch for Keamy and kicks Jin’s shoes under the bed, the sheets change from all white to white with the red pattern (specifically at the foot of the bed) and then to all white again. If this was intentional, what does it mean? Just an observation.

    • 2 votes
    #9.5 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:40 PM EDT
    Spikegary

    BTW-Might I add here-wow-Sun-sexy seduction scene. Any other guys here wish they were Jin in that scene?

    • 5 votes
    #9.6 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:55 PM EDT
    belle42

    Heck, I'm a woman and was taking notes for future use! :)

    • 3 votes
    #9.7 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:03 PM EDT
    Spikegary

    I knew we're friends for a reason..... :-)

    • 3 votes
    #9.8 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:25 PM EDT
    belle42

    I've noticed quite a bit more sex this season -- not that I'm complaining mind you. Skin is IN!!

    Spike, I'll make you a deal -- you get Sun, I get Sawyer (and maybe Richard too) :)

    • 5 votes
    #9.9 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:11 PM EDT
    FortifiedHooligan

    My friends and I were watching and I remarked about the tight closeup they had on her chest. It was almost uncomfortably close considering how innocent and proper I am used to seeing Sun.

    • 2 votes
    #9.10 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:44 PM EDT
    kcjhawk

    And no close up of Jin's skivvies--even though he was delivering "the package."

    • 3 votes
    #9.11 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:02 PM EDT
    say what??

    Did it have a bow on it?

    • 3 votes
    #9.12 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:29 PM EDT
    belle42

    Maybe a blue one?

    http://www.allerdice.net/scotsman-song.htm

    • 4 votes
    #9.13 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:41 PM EDT
    say what??

    LOLOL

    Ring ding diddle iddle i de o!

    (It's kind of early to get silly, but hey ...)

    • 3 votes
    #9.14 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:54 PM EDT
    belle42

    Personally, I'd prefer to sing that song for Desmond (considering I'd love to see his 'package'), but hey most of the guys on the Island are easy on the eyes :)

    • 4 votes
    #9.15 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:58 PM EDT
    minklady

    Funny, before tonight I didn't notice how buff Jin was :) But Hoot da fricken doot!!! What a hunk. Maybe it was all of the in-my-face sexuality that made me notice!!!

    • 3 votes
    #9.16 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:32 PM EDT
    Spikegary

    Belle-deal!

    • 2 votes
    #9.17 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:17 PM EDT
    Reply
    pinkcap

    I thought it was a good episode. It can't compare to last week's episode, but it was still good. I loved the scene where Jin viewed the pictures of his daughter. The best part of the episode was having the man in the locked room confirmed as being Desmond - "the package." Even though most of us thought it was Desmond, it was only a theory. It's always good to have it confirmed, especially when it means that Desmond is back. I was glad when Sun refused to take FLocke's hand. Everytime I see him extend his hand to someone, I yell at the tv -don't do it! Loved it when Sawyer said to Flocke "why don't you turn into smoke and fly your a** over the water." I just read that line and it doesn't sound as good as when Sawyer speaks it. He has a great delivery.

    Why does Nemesis need all of the viable candidates to leave with him? I think that is what's holding the MIB to the island. He can't leave by himself and he knows about the donkey wheel. He has to take all the candidates with him to be able to leave. Jacob told the MIB last week that if he kills him, there will be someone to take his place. As long as someone is there to take his place, he can't leave. What I found interesting is that the MIB doesn't think Kate is a candidate. She is crossed off on the cave wall, but not at the Lighthouse. I believe Jacob did that to fool the MIB. FLocke said to Claire that he needs Kate to get everyone on the plane. Once everyone is on the plane, whatever happens, happens. That sounds like he doesn't care if Kate gets on the plane. If he leaves without Kate on the plane, he loses.

    What is Widmore's purpose in bringing Desmond with him to the Island? I'm not sure about this one. Eloise told him that the island isn't finished with him yet. I sometimes wonder if he's a candidate. The numbers 3 and 6 are used quite often often in the show. We have never seen who corresponds to these numbers in the cave or lighthouse. Or, maybe he's Wallace - #108. We don't know much about Desmond's family, could he have changed his last name? Jacob could have used the name Wallace, instead of Hume so that the MIB wouldn't know who he was.

    I still think that Widmore is working secretly for Jacob. If not, how does he know that Jin went back to 1977? What is the mystery with the pockets of EM? Why are they so important to Widmore? Are they important to Jacob also? There are other pockets of EM in the world. Has he done something with those pockets?

    Seeing Room 23 again was interesting. That's the room where Karl was held by the Others. Someone played the voice in that scene backwards and heard "only fools are enslaved by space and time." Could it be significant that Jin was held in that room? There was a parallel of Jin being held against his will on the island and in the sideways world. Sun was also injured in both worlds. It was good to see Mikhail with both eyes, even if it was for a short time.

    • 6 votes
    Reply#10 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:17 PM EDT
    Lori-1673701

    I still think that Widmore is working secretly for Jacob. If not, how does he know that Jin went back to 1977?

    Zoe sais his name was on the map or something...sorry no DVR

    • 3 votes
    #10.1 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:25 PM EDT
    BlackRock Steve

    Yes, Zoe had a 1976 or 77 Dharma map and Jin's name was on it as a Security person contact...that's why they wanted him as a "map guide" to find the EM pockets....I think they are assuming that Jin did the map when he worked for Sawyer in Security...which is possible, maybe he did, since we were never told all what Jin did for 3 yrs. in Dharmaville in security.

    • 2 votes
    #10.2 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:33 PM EDT
    pinkcap

    Lori

    I caught that, but how would he know it was Jin? Oh - never mind. He does know about time travel because he met them in 1954. He just put the pieces together just like I did with your help. Thanks.

    • 3 votes
    #10.3 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:39 PM EDT
    BlackRock Steve

    pinkcap...I think you also forgot that back in the '70's (when Jin was in Dharma) Charles was still on the island and was the leader of the Others (maybe along with Ellie for awhile)...right up until approx. 1992 when he was forced off by Ben.

    • 3 votes
    #10.4 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:11 AM EDT
    Inchiki

    'llo Pinkcap,

    At the Lighthouse, Jacob did say someone was coming to the Island. (Whether new arrival actually needed Jack's help can still be debated.) From the way Jacob was talking, the person coming--Widmore, we're assuming--is an ally. I don't think Widmore is actively or knowingly working for Jacob, he just wants to return to the Island and depose Ben to take his rightful position back. Still, he's part of Jacob's master plan, so in essence he's Jacob's piece.

    Ah, now I'm going to have to rewatch the Room 23 scene to see if there were any clues in the rapid succession of images.

    • 2 votes
    #10.5 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:15 AM EDT
    pinkcap

    Black Rock Steve - Thanks for the reminder. I remembered 1954 while I was replying to Lori and this morning I remembered that he was on the island when Jin when back in time. I need to stop posting at night - I think my mind shuts down after 10.

    Inchiki - I do think that Widmore has his own agenda whether he's working for Jacob knowingly or unknowingly. You could be right about him not actively working for Jacob, but I can't believe he'd sacrifice his relationship with his daughter over his need to be the leader of the island. I think the statement that we would all cease to exist is what motivates him. Better his daughter hates him than she ceases to exist. When he and Ellie were standing in front of the hospital, she said heaven help us all if they don't get back to the island. He knew what she was talking about. That's why I think he is actively working with Jacob, but can't help carrying out his own agenda.

    • 2 votes
    #10.6 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:34 AM EDT
    LostGirl

    Maybe Jacob never meant Charles when he said someone is coming to the island. Maybe he was referencing Desmond the whole time.

    • 4 votes
    #10.7 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:01 AM EDT
    T Bourlon

    Didn't Jacob say, "They're coming"?

    • 2 votes
    #10.8 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:52 AM EDT
    FortifiedHooligan

    I still think that Widmore is working secretly for Jacob. If not, how does he know that Jin went back to 1977? What is the mystery with the pockets of EM? Why are they so important to Widmore? Are they important to Jacob also? There are other pockets of EM in the world. Has he done something with those pockets?

    I'm thinking it might have something to do with either controlling MIB or killing him. The sonic pylons are the reason I am thinking this. If they can harness that kind of power, maybe they can resolve the smokie issue for good?

    • 2 votes
    #10.9 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:16 AM EDT
    JohnBoy813

    LostGirl, I think you could be right and Desmond was the one that Jacob was referring to with Charles just being the vehicle that delievers him to the island.

    Pinkcap, with regards to Sawyer's line about flying over the water to get to the Hydra station. Perhaps he can only travel as smoke over land, and even a far reach what if he has to fly close to the ground or water in this case; couldn't a large wave wash the smoke into the sea which effectively kill smokey?

    • 3 votes
    #10.10 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:27 AM EDT
    Jekazu

    I believe he said that as he was dying. He told Hurley someone was coming in the lighthouse.

    • 2 votes
    #10.11 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:51 AM EDT
    Reply
    Katy-253048
  • Why does Nemesis need all of the viable candidates to leave with him?
  • I think he needs Jacob to leave... and one of them is the "next" Jacob. He doesn't know which, so he's taking them all. That's why he doesn't care what happens to Kate... she's not a candidate.

  • What is Widmore's purpose in bringing Desmond with him to the Island?
  • I really have no idea. I'm excited to find out. :) Did Sayid and Desmond have a special relationship? Sayid looked a bit mesmerized.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#11 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:18 PM EDT
    Inchiki

    What the heck? Jack actually tells a joke . . . to Jin? And it's a prediction that Ben and Ilana will fall in love (in one of the existences)--there's just too much tension between the two ; ) ! A little levity in this evening's episode makes for a good change of pace. A fine blend of character (Sun and Jin, Hurley and Miles) and plot development (Smoke vs Widmore, Desmond!).

    And now for something not-so-completely different.

    • Why does Nemesis need all of the viable candidates to leave with him? In terms of a game, Smoke would have removed all the opponent’s pieces from the board. Smoke will most likely kill all the candidates once they are far away enough.
    • What is Widmore's purpose in bringing Desmond with him to the Island? Not sure how he will be used. But Desmond is the only one to be rid of the time sickness; he truly is special because he’s a constant. Since the time jumps have stopped from the Bomb, the other time travelers ‘s time illness is in stasis but they are not “cured” like Desmond. As a constant, I don't think the Island can be destroyed while he's on it.

    Another question is why do they need a geophysicist (Zoe) for? Are they going back to the Hatch?

    • 3 votes
    Reply#12 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:20 PM EDT
    Rebecca D

    I'm not done watching yet, but just had to cheer for

    Ben: oh come on... for the fourth time, i was out picking mangoes. She was already out cold when I found her. Why don't you believe me?

    Ilana: Because you're speaking.

    Bazinga! Oh.. sorry.. that's from another show I love...

    • 6 votes
    Reply#13 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:40 PM EDT
    Anon Emous

    Somewhere I read a comment that LOST needs to end w/ Sheldon knocking on a door, calling out

    'Penny? Penny? Penny? Penny?'

    And having Penny WIDMORE answer

      #13.1 - Thu Apr 1, 2010 9:21 PM EDT
      Reply
      say what??

      Maybe geophysicist Zoe can use the electromagnetic pockets to set up a whole island fence similar to the sonic fence and contain NemLocke/Smokey, possibly even kill or neutralize him.

      • 8 votes
      Reply#14 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:52 PM EDT
      BlackRock Steve

      Good one, say what?....I also instantly thought of...or, blow the whole EM field and could it SINK the island???

      • 4 votes
      #14.1 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:14 AM EDT
      Inchiki

      Interesting thought, say what? . At first I was thinking of the immediate conflict, too, but then maybe it's something more mundane. If it's important to keep the integrity of the Island intact, then these EM fields are a threat. Zoe may be needed to undo the damage that the Dharma Initiative inflicted when they were stumbling around in the 70's.

      I wonder what other scientist-type folks Widmore may have brought, as well. Damn, why couldn't Faraday still be alive?

      • 2 votes
      #14.2 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:26 AM EDT
      ranturn

      Maybe geophysicist Zoe can use the electromagnetic pockets to set up a whole island fence similar to the sonic fence and contain NemLocke/Smokey, possibly even kill or neutralize him.

      Excellent point say what!

      • 3 votes
      #14.3 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:51 AM EDT
      pinkcap

      Good one, say what?....I also instantly thought of...or, blow the whole EM field and could it SINK the island???

      What if sinking the island is the ultimate way to keep the MIB from ever escaping? We see the sideways world with the island under water. If the island went down in 1977, what happened to the MIB? Everybody is still there - they didn't cease to exist.The lives of most of the Losties seem better. Did the MIB have a way to manipulate the lives of the candidates from the island and that's why their lives weren't great? Could Widmore with the help of a geo-physicist try to sink the island because in this world, the explosion in 1977 didn't work?

      • 3 votes
      #14.4 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:43 AM EDT
      Lost in Space and Time 316

      I'm so glad we are talking about the geo-physicist..... I was thinking every time I saw Zoe last night, why did Widmore bring scientist back with him this time, when he originally sent mercenaries to get Ben? Then Widmore said something (and I can't recall exactly) about bringing scientist instead of mercenaries! It seems, as is Lost fashion, that there is a significance in the scientist being there. I agree with you all that the EM fields are a major part of the story to come. At the risk of repeating my self, Desmond is the constant, so I think he will have a major part in managing the EM fields around the world.

      • 5 votes
      #14.5 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:11 AM EDT
      parent-43973

      If Zoe is such a critical scientist, why was she used as "Sawyer bait" two episodes ago? Seems there would be plenty of more expendable red shirts for that purpose.

      • 3 votes
      #14.6 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:15 AM EDT
      Lost in Space and Time 316

      I'm not saying that Zoe herself is critical, I'm just theorizing that the fact that Widmore brought scientist to the island instead of mercenaries is critical to the plot.

      • 2 votes
      #14.7 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:33 AM EDT
      T Bourlon

      Here's another thought: Maybe they're looking for that "escape hatch" that Ben and Original Locke went through that landed them in Tunisia. Charles left on a sub (and came back on one, hmmm), so he may know about it but he doesn't know where it is. I can't help but wonder why UnLocke doesn't use that escape hatch, since he's in Locke's body he HAS to know about it - or does he?

      • 1 vote
      #14.8 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:58 AM EDT
      kcjhawk

      But doesn't Widmore know where the "out" door is? He did have his people pick up Locke in Tunisia after Locke turned the wheel.

      • 3 votes
      #14.9 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:03 AM EDT
      FortifiedHooligan

      Great minds Say what...I JUST put something on the previous post about this then 1 post down see you thinking the same. Atleast if I'm wrong I won't be off the deep end alone =D

      • 1 vote
      #14.10 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:18 AM EDT
      JohnBoy813

      LST, It was Zoe that told Whitmore that he should have sent mercenaries to get Jin when he complained that she should have waited until Jin went into the jungle instead of tranking the whole group.

      And Nemesis can't use the donkey wheel, remember when Locke went through it Nemesis as Christian said that he could not assist him in moving the wheel. Perhaps that is one of the rules, he can't use/leave via the wheel.

      • 3 votes
      #14.11 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:49 AM EDT
      pinkcap

      John Boy - I agree. I don't think he can't use the wheel. If he could, I think he would have done it by now. He knows where it is located. In that scene, Christian also wouldn't help John stand up. There has been an emphasis lately on the MIB always extending his hand when he wants someone to join his team, yet he wouldn't touch John before he left the island. If he touched him, could it have negated John as his loophole?

      • 2 votes
      #14.12 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:02 PM EDT
      ranturn

      What if sinking the island is the ultimate way to keep the MIB from ever escaping?

      I really like how you think pinkcap! Great theory!

      • 2 votes
      #14.13 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:23 PM EDT
      kcjhawk

      I was thinking that Nemesis could not use the donkey wheel because moving it the first time was what loosened the island and started the time flashes. Depending on "when" the island flashed to Jacob might still be alive and Nemesis would not have his loophole. Kinda sounds contrived now that I see it in print, though.

      • 2 votes
      #14.14 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:30 PM EDT
      Reply
      pinkcap

      I have a question. In the sideways world, Keamy asked Omar for an interpretor. He said that Danny's Russian friend speaks 9 languages. Could Danny be Daniel Farraday?

      • 6 votes
      #15 - Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:52 PM EDT
      BlackRock Steve

      Wow...I missed that connection, Pinkcap...you're right, he did say "Danny"....so, Farraday would be connected to thug Keamy in sideways dimension!?!?....that would be a twist, but then if Keamy is/was connected to Charles.....YES, we should be thinking of what we might see Farraday doing in "sideways-ville"....we've seen many other characters who died on the island alive and well in sideways so why not Farraday!!

      • 4 votes
      #15.1 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:23 AM EDT
      ranturn

      Someone mentioned before that Keamy mumbled alot of his sentences and that whole Russian friend line I missed due to his mumbling. Very observant pinkcap. I can't wait to see what the writers have in store for Daniel in the sideways world. What could he be doing? Maybe he was the husband Ava/Zoe was supposed to bring the money to in that whole scene with Sawyer? More realistically, it would have to be something related to science. Or perhaps working with Juliet....

      I have a question too......Did Widmore tell Jin he found Sun's camera on the Airja flight? If so, he must be lying. How would he just so happen to find that camera? He probably took the videos himself and it was his camera.

      • 2 votes
      #15.2 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:04 AM EDT
      NCL70506

      Hi ranturn - Widmore told Jin that they searched through the Ajira plane's luggage and found the camera in his wife's luggage, and he thought Jin might want to see the pictures of his daughter Ji Yeon. I wondered about this also. It's possible that Sun could have brought a camera to show Jin pictures of their child. But, it seemed too planned for me. Widmore sent his people over to the camp to get Jin specifically and bring him back. Then Widmore just happens to have the camera with pictures of Ji Yeon. Hmm. It is very likely that Widmore had those pictures taken to use as leverage to get Jin to trust him or get him to do something.

      • 2 votes
      #15.3 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:55 AM EDT
      say what??

      It's possible that Sun could have brought a camera to show Jin pictures of their child. But, it seemed too planned for me.

      If it was Sun's camera I think she would have taken it with her - both to carry her "miracle child" with her and to show Jin his daughter when/if she found him.

      • 4 votes
      #15.4 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:27 AM EDT
      Lori-1673701

      Question - How did Charles know Jins daughters name?

      If it was Sun's camera I think she would have taken it with her

      say what?? - remember they disappeared from the plane prior to crashing so her bag was probably still there

      • 2 votes
      #15.5 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:10 AM EDT
      T Bourlon

      No, Sun didn't go with Jack, Kate and Hurley. She was stuck with Ben and the pilot, Frank? But Sun contacted Widmore before she got on the plane, and Widmore tracked her down. Clearly the guy did his homework, so yeah he would know about the daughter.

      • 2 votes
      #15.6 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:01 AM EDT
      MsMo

      Ava and Zoe are not the same person -- two different actresses Sheila Kelly (Zoe) and Jodi Lyn O'Keefe (Ava)

      • 4 votes
      #15.7 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:54 AM EDT
      mearth1961

      When Sun had left the Island as one of the O6 she believed that Ben was responsible for Jin's death. She tracked Widdemore down and told him they had a "mutual goal - to kill Ben Linus"....we didn't see the extent of their conversation, what information they shared, or if they continued to have contact from that initial meeting to the point where Sun confronts Ben and he tells her that Jin is still alive and gives her the wedding ring....so CW may have gotten the info on Jin's daughter directly from Sun?

      • 2 votes
      #15.8 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:26 PM EDT
      Jekazu

      so CW may have gotten the info on Jin's daughter directly from Sun?

      That's what I thought.

      • 2 votes
      #15.9 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:32 PM EDT
      DaSarge

      I like the touch of the camera in this episode, but I have one perplexing question, did Widmore have new batteries for the camera, how long has the plane been on Hydra Island, and if he did have batteries, how did he know exactally which kind to have. if they have been there for any length of time, the batteries would surely be dead unless some magical twist (which Lost is great at) had some remaining power within the batteries, or Widmore had batteries at his disposal just for such an occasion?

      Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmm

      • 2 votes
      #15.10 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:52 PM EDT
      pinkcap

      DeSarge -it may seem like a long time to you since they landed on the island, but I believe they have been back on the island for only a few days.

      • 2 votes
      #15.11 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:57 PM EDT
      DaSarge

      Good point, it could be just a couple of days. but not knowing by visual cues how long they have been there. just another twist. :)

      • 2 votes
      #15.12 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:05 PM EDT
      Lori-1673701

      It is possible that Sun told Whitmore about her child but... I sure the hell would not. She did not know alot about him or his motives. Besides, I am not sure but didn't she leave the baby with someone when she went to talk to him?? Sorry I forget who? Maybe Kate and Aaron?

      • 2 votes
      #15.13 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:21 PM EDT
      Spikegary

      Most likely they have power on the sub and who carries a digital camera on a trip somewhere these days w/o a power cord?

      • 3 votes
      #15.14 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:13 PM EDT
      jograyghost

      Sun left her baby with her mother

      • 2 votes
      #15.15 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:00 PM EDT
      Reply
      pumnut

      Evening all! I was really hoping Steve would get done posting this before I had to go to sleep, so thx Steve.

      Why does Nemesis need all of the viable candidates to leave with him?

      I don't think he really does. I think his main goal is to get them together to kill them so that there are no more substitutes for Jacob. Then he is free to leave the island as he stated in last week's epi. It amazes me that none of the survivors that have heard of Flocke's plan to leave on the plane have asked who is going to FLY the plane?!

      What is Widmore's purpose in bringing Desmond with him to the Island?

      My suspicion is it has something to do with the EM field that Desmond was keeping at bay by entering the #'s. That's probably why Zoe was asking for the location of the field. Maybe they need to have Desmond travel to a certain time and getting him close to the Em field will trigger the time jumps for him. I haven't quite figured out where thats going but maybe it will come to me in my dreams.

      Cheers::

      Jin FINALLY seeing his daughter

      Sun not trusting Flocke

      Sawyer's line about Flocke flying his butt across the water

      ..also it was nice to see a potentially "good" side of Widmore, altho it's still hard to trust him

      Jeers:

      We need MORE answers! Time is running out

      Showing us the Jin/Sun reunion in next week's epi, I knew it was coming but now it will almost be anti-climatic

      Thoughts:

      Jack offered his hand to Sun just like Flocke does

      Sun seemed to notice something in her reflection in the hotel room, I wonder what it was...

      Keamy almost seemed sympathetic to Jin when he was talking to him in the freezer/pantry

      • 3 votes
      Reply#16 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:00 AM EDT
      Katy-253048

      Maybe she was looking at herself differently, as she knows she is pregant.

      • 2 votes
      #16.1 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:11 PM EDT
      Reply
      pinkcap

      Lori 1673701

      I left you a message about this on last week's post. I went to the site so that I could give you the link, but they removed it at the request of ABC.

      • 2 votes
      Reply#17 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:01 AM EDT
      Lori-1673701

      Thanks pinkcap, I was having a very hard time on the site from work so I also tried from home. I could see the list yesterday and I to noticed that message last night.

      darn!!!! Iquiring minds want to know...

      • 1 vote
      #17.1 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:40 AM EDT
      Lori-1673701

      pinkcap, thanks for your memeory of the spoiler and all I can say is

      WOW, WOW and WOW....

      it sure was a spoiler and can see why it was removed (which also means very probable it is true) but loved and hated it : ( .... I hate that this show is ending. I am also a little shocked about some but not all as you have stated. Don't want to go into to much detail here and ruin it for someone that does not want to know. Thanks again, the people on here are great with the posts...

      • 1 vote
      #17.2 - Thu Apr 1, 2010 8:09 AM EDT
      Susanaree

      Don't want to go into to much detail here and ruin it for someone that does not want to know. Thanks again, the people on here are great with the posts...

      Lori - many thanks from someone who tries to avoid even strong hints!

      • 1 vote
      #17.3 - Thu Apr 1, 2010 1:18 PM EDT
      Reply
      Aqualeo

      The Big Questions:

      • Why does Nemesis need all of the viable candidates to leave with him?
      • He cannot leave anyone behind to become the next Jacob. If even one person is left, they will be the protector and Smokey will be forever imprisoned on the island.
      • What is Widmore's purpose in bringing Desmond with him to the Island?

      Widmore will use Desmond's power to stop Smokey. I'm hoping it has something to do with his mind jumping that he did on "The Constant." However, after seeing next weeks promo, it looks like Desmond will have to sacrifice himself for the island likeMichael had to on the freighter. I'm hoping we get to see Desmond's Flashsideways.

      • 1 vote
      Reply#18 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:29 AM EDT
      NCL70506

      The title of next week's episode is "Happily Ever After" and it is focuses on Desmond. We will see his flashsideways.

      • 2 votes
      #18.1 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:26 PM EDT
      Reply
      Samhill

      Desmond!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He's finally back.

      So, I am wondering if Sun is going to die in the sideways reality. I remember reading an interview with Damon and Carlton where they said we've seen that someone can die on the island, but still live in the sideways...what if they die in the sideways? I figured they were giving us a clue in advance that someone would, and now I wonder if it's going to be Sun.

      I wondered if Desmond was the one locked up in the sub. When Jacob had said that someone was coming to the island and they needed to help them find the way (lighthouse) my immediate thought was that it was Desmond. I was actually disappointed when Widmore showed up and still questioned if that was who Jacob was referring to.

      • 1 vote
      Reply#19 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:37 AM EDT
      Pep-1674422

      I don't have a good feeling about Sun/Jin - I just hope they can be reunited, but I have a feeling one of them or both won't make it which is so sad....especially with Keamy's comment in the sideways that "some people aren't meant to be together"... also didn't realize that they were in the same hotel that Sayid killed Keamy's men which was a total surprise when Sayid opened the freezer door...I do feel Jack is the next Jacob and Jacob has "brought" all the help he can give him by surrounding him with Hurley who can talk with the dead, Richard who knows Jacob and has the history, Ben who hopefully won't turn rougue, but also has deep knowledge, Ilana and Miles...and Sun who has great instincts...am worried about Sawyer too; that he may not make it...next week looks like it may be a sad episode! But we are getting closer! I agree that "Danny" is Daniel as well and picked that one up -

      • 1 vote
      Reply#20 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:55 AM EDT
      mike himself

      Pep - Maybe I misunderstood, but I don't think Sayid was in the same hotel and Sun and Jin. Jin was brought to the restaurant where they were supposed to meet Keamy after Sun got the money.

      • 2 votes
      #20.1 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:20 AM EDT
      Reply
      M. Remmers

      I'll never understand the disdain people have for Kate. She can't figure out who she wants to bang and that makes her the worst person in the world while Sawyer and Sayid are the cold-blooded murderers that everybody loves. It's so bizarre.

      • 4 votes
      Reply#21 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:30 AM EDT
      T Bourlon

      Hey, I like Kate when she's the bad girl, but when she's not she can be awfully whiny.

      • 2 votes
      #21.1 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:04 AM EDT
      Steve Watts

      It's not so much the love triangle issue for me; more that she just isn't a very interesting character. The writers seem to think she's interesting, because they keep writing new stories for her. But her stories never reveal anything new, it's always just a rehash of things we knew about the character since the first season. At this point she might as well be shrugging and saying "here we go again!" Cue wacky foghorn.

      • 6 votes
      #21.2 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:10 AM EDT
      kcjhawk

      I politely beg to differ. I was going to write an article, but felt like I didn't have the expertise. My title was to be: Kate: I'll Be Your Variable.

      I think she will play a key role in the end game--especially after what Locke told Claire last night. I also think it is interesting to watch Kate now that she is trapped and can't run. It is almost like a wild animal in a zoo, who is just watching the humans and seems a little pathetic--like she has lost all hope.

      Now I didn't like the love triangle any more than anyone else. But most of the time, Kate was a fighter and she could hold her own tracking and getting around the island. She is 100 x more interesting than Claire.

      • 3 votes
      #21.3 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:13 AM EDT
      pinkcap

      I do have to agree with Steve about Kate not being an interesting character. Most of the other characters have shown some personal growth, but she's still the same. She can't decide who she wants to be with and she's always running from situations.

      I also have to agree wiht kcjhawk about her playing a key role when it comes to the end. I mentioned this in another post. Kate's name is crossed off at the cave, but not the lighthouse. The producers denied that it was a production error and alluded to this being done on purpose by Jacob. Why would he do it on purpose? There's only one reason - to fool the MIB because the MIB obviously visits the cave. If he thinks that Kate is not a viable candidate, then he doesn't have to worry about killing her. If she dies, she dies, but he's not going after her directly. I think that's why he was upset about not liking secrets when it came to Widmore and the sub. He thought he knew everything Jacob was doing, and he's not prepared for whatever it is Widmore has on the sub.

      • 2 votes
      #21.4 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:28 AM EDT
      JohnBoy813

      I agree that Kate never grows, and the thing that bugs me the most about her is when she is told something like "Kate, don't go through that door or we will all die", what does she do, she goes through the door. I know it's Locke line "you can't tell me what to do", but it really should be Kate's. Perhaps MIB never visited the lighthouse, remember when Hurley brought Jack there, Jack questioned why they never noticed it before and Hurley said that perhaps they never were looking for it before. Perhaps it can only be seen when you are actually looking for it. And remember the door was locked when they got there, perhaps the smoke can't get through the door as it has always found passage into some place via an opening at the ground level.

      • 2 votes
      #21.5 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:46 PM EDT
      pinkcap

      John Boy, I agree. I don't think that the MIB visited the lighthouse. I think you're right about it not seeing it unless you're looking for it. If the MIB did know of its existance, maybe he couldn't go through unless invited in. Remember when Jacob told Richard that no one could enter the statue unless invited in, maybe it applied to the lighthouse also.

      • 1 vote
      #21.6 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:04 PM EDT
      JohnBoy813

      But he did come into the lighthouse as FLocke. I think it is the closed door that kept him out.

      • 1 vote
      #21.7 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:22 PM EDT
      Spikegary

      I like Kate too, though the sitting around, dejected Kate is no fun-annoying, in fact. She does some of the more fun stuff both on the island and sideways....

      • 1 vote
      #21.8 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:19 PM EDT
      Reply
      parent-43973

      LEt's see, Nem needs all the candidates to leave. Jacob needed all the O6 to return to the Island. They were all there in 2004 after 815 crached. What gives? Why didn't Nem just grab them then? Why bring them back after they leave if it allows Nem to leave? Wht does Widmore tell Locke in Tunisia that they have to go back, and now Widmore goes back to stop Nem? The lack of logic here is appalling! If the goal is to keep Nem locked up, then send the candidates away and leave them off Island. That was accomplished (you could say that Widmore's machinations with the freighter people helped accomplish that). But then, as soon as that mission succeeds, they have to undo it all to bring them back so Nem has a chance to escape? BS!

      And what about "moving" the Island. It physically moved at the end of Season 4, but no one seems to care much anymore about that. The Lamppost people found it easily enough (for the Ajira flight), now Widmore finds it with his sub. How did "moving" the Island protect it in any way? (The freighter was already destroyed and the mercenaries killed by the time Ben turned the donkey wheel.)

      These questions are never going to be answered because the writers have bitten off more than they can chew.

      • 3 votes
      Reply#22 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:45 AM EDT
      pinkcap

      Parent - I think Jacob needed the O6 to return to the island because he knew of the MIB's plan to kill him and he needed his replacement on the island when that happened. I don't think the MIB can just grab them - they have to come willingly. Notice that he didn't carry Sun back to his camp when she was knocked unconscious? I also think that there are rules in place and he's not allowed to kill them on the island. I think he will try to get them on the plane, or maybe the sub, and try to kill them once they have left the island. As long as there is a viable replacement, he can't leave the island. I agree it doesn't make sense now, but we don't know all the facts.

      As for moving the island to protect it, we're not sure if that directive was given by Jacob or the MIB. If it was given by the MIB, I think he either wanted Ben and/or Locke off the island or he knew that if the Losties were getting off the island and he wanted to make sure they couldn't return.

      • 2 votes
      #22.1 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:17 AM EDT
      Lori-1673701

      Curious how MIB will get to the plane if it is behind the fence Whitmore set up???

      • 2 votes
      #22.2 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:58 AM EDT
      T Bourlon

      Obviously Sayid is HIS trump card!

      • 1 vote
      #22.3 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:05 AM EDT
      say what??

      It seems they would have had floodlights around the sub and guards protecting it. For all the planning Widmore apparently did he sure left a lot of gaps - surely they would anticipate someone sneaking in in the dark. But maybe that's part of the plan?? And if they could set up a portable sonic fence, wouldn't they be able to set up high tech intrusion detectors?

      • 2 votes
      #22.4 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:17 AM EDT
      JohnBoy813

      Say What, I think Widemore is cocky and since all the candidates are on the other island and he has guards at the point that it appears people travel between islands using the cannoe along with the sonic fence he does not feel threatened.

      • 2 votes
      #22.5 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:51 PM EDT
      kcjhawk

      It seems to me that Locke must know something about Sayid that we don't. Claire is claimed and he considers her crazy, yet Sayid is claimed and Locke is trusting him with his most important tasks? Why isn't Locke worried that Sayid will go rogue?

        #22.6 - Thu Apr 1, 2010 5:06 PM EDT
        pinkcap

        kcjhawk

        I think Claire is erratic and a bit of a wildcard. You can't predict how she is going to act. She lets her emotions get in the way of what she's supposed to do. Look at how she attacked Kate. FLocke had to slap her and talk to her like a child to control her. She's apologized to Kate because she had to, but she still wants to harm her. Sayid was easily convinced by Ben to kill people. Right now he seems to be someone who can be easily persuaded to do anything.

        • 1 vote
        #22.7 - Thu Apr 1, 2010 5:58 PM EDT
        kcjhawk

        pinkcap: I completely agree about Sayid--but looks can be deceiving. I think something clicked--in a good way--when he came nose to nose with Des on the dock. He may yet surprise us.

          #22.8 - Fri Apr 2, 2010 10:40 AM EDT
          OnlyChild

          I hope so. He and Des worked close together on the freighter; he was there when Des phoned Penny (I think) and Penny's boat rescued them, so if anything can jog him into a better self, this might do it.

            #22.9 - Fri Apr 2, 2010 11:07 AM EDT
            Jekazu

            I hope so, too. I don't like seeing Sayid like this.

              #22.10 - Fri Apr 2, 2010 11:14 AM EDT
              Reply
              sweetpeas2ds

              Don't you hate it when you type out a post and poof it disappears? Technology, you are my nemesis!

              Cheers:

              Naughty, Naughyt Jin, tapping Mr. Paik's daughter without putting a ring on it! (though I found it to be a personal highlight watching Jin in his skivveys!)

              Locke "whatever happens, happens" Like the reference to whatever happened, happened

              Miles comment about covering Richard in bacon grease cause, really, who doesn't like bacon?!

              Ta Da! Desmond, brotha!

              Sun running from Locke. Thought I don't know why he chased her as that's not going to win her future trust anytime soon.

              Sun going all ballistic on Richard.

              Jin seeing his daughter. Now he will do anything Widmore wants him to (is this good or bad?)

              Jeers:

              Tina Fey/Sarah Palin. I don't buy her character, even less so when she's trying to be all hard ass to Jin.

              On to the questions:

              • Why does Nemesis need all of the viable candidates to leave with him? He needs them all on Team Nemesis so none take on Jacob's role. I don't think he necessarily needs them to leave, he just needs them not to take Jacob's place.
              • What is Widmore's purpose in bringing Desmond with him to the Island? Desmond has been special from the beginning. I don't know exactly why though. Is it because he brought down the plane? Does he have some Island knowledge that we don't really know about yet? guess we'll find out!
              • 1 vote
              Reply#23 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:15 AM EDT
              NCL70506

              I also wondered about Nemesis chasing Sun. I agree that chasing her is not going to win any trustworthy points. Maybe he was hoping to catch up to her and have another chance at convincing her to come with him. Poor Sun; Nemesis was probably thinking 'this person is a possible candidate and she knocks herself out, that's really intimidating.'

              Also noticed Sun going off on Richard. The writers finally gave her a line other than "Have you seen my husband?" She might have been yelling in Korean, but she said a mouthful. LOL at Hurley saying "I don't think she wants to come."

              • 1 vote
              #23.1 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:04 PM EDT
              Superman2001

              I liked that scene, but it bothered me. I'd be incredibly frustrated about telling someone off in a language that they don't even understand. Still, she gave him the business.

                #23.2 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:53 PM EDT
                kcjhawk

                He sweetpeas: I think you have discovered the heart of Lost. Your Nemesis is technology and like MIB, if unleashed he will make everything (your posts) cease to be!

                  #23.3 - Thu Apr 1, 2010 5:09 PM EDT
                  Reply
                  JessieAnne19

                  Morning everyone. Long-time reader, first time poster..

                  Something that caught my attention was Sayid's comments about how he can't feel anything, sadness, anger, happiness, pain.. The most intriguing one was that he couldn't feel pain. You think he meant physical pain, or emotional pain? Maybe he meant he didn't (and still doesn't) feel anything after killing Dogen and Lennon, and it doesn't make sense to him. It makes me wonder, what if Sayid really did die in the Temple but somehow MIB stepped in and brought him back and is now using him as sort of an assassin. MIB said he couldn't get over to Hydra Island in his smoke form (or probably even turn in to Smokey once he got there?), but now he has an emotionless, merciless killer over there doing his bidding. MIB did tell Sayid that not being able to feel emotion will help him get through what's going to happen, or help him do what he'll have to do later (can't remember the exact line). So, I'm wondering what MIB's plans are for Sayid...

                  • 2 votes
                  Reply#24 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:55 AM EDT
                  T Bourlon

                  Yeah, I caught that line. Between that and giving Claire the go-ahead on Kate, it's clear that he intends to kill everyone who doesn't join him. But remember, HE can't kill the candidates directly, he has to use a proxy. So, Sayid's lack of emotion will make it easier for him to kill his friends, Jack and Hurley.

                  • 1 vote
                  #24.1 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:09 AM EDT
                  JessieAnne19

                  Oh, good point! I didn't think about that. Maybe that's why they were so adamant at the Temple to try to save Sayid. Because they knew that if they didn't that MIB could infect him and then use him for his dark deeds. But, since Jacob was already dead, the pool didn't work and Sayid was later infected. Maybe that's why Dogen tried to have Jack kill him, because he knew Sayid could be used to kill the other candidates (and he himself couldn't kill a candidate, he had to have Jack convince him to take a poison pill on his own free will), or that Sayid would be easily subverted by MIB...

                  • 1 vote
                  #24.2 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:30 AM EDT
                  Santa Rosa Mental Health Institute

                  Um well yeah. But why would Dogen fight Sayid so valiantly - to the death, it would seem - the first time if he knew he couldn't kill him, since he was a candidate? I'm not asking you, JessieAnne - I'm asking the WRITERS!

                    #24.3 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:29 PM EDT
                    belle42

                    Not to the death, to the pain!

                    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Princess_Bride_(film)

                    • 1 vote
                    #24.4 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:31 PM EDT
                    kcjhawk

                    When Dogen realized that Sayid has not killed Nemesis, he knew that things were going to go badly. With Jacob's death, Dogen's pact with him was nullified and he could finally give up his post as guardian of the Temple. He could also have felt that he had lost face because he could no longer keep the people at the Temple safe. Either way, he let Sayid kill him.

                      #24.5 - Thu Apr 1, 2010 11:15 AM EDT
                      Reply
                      Ross-883683

                      Pretty good episode. I like the fact that they focused on all three groups on the island instead of just one. Things are speeding up to the end. Some pretty good lines in the episode. Sawyers of course tops them all with his comment about flocke flying his smokey ass across the water to escape. Just a little bit of humor before the "war" starts. Loves lost/lives lost. We know some are going to die.

                      It seems all of the old island gang is now in Los Angeles. What are the chances of that? It is like LA is now the island. While we have not seen everyone from the island, we have seen the more important players. How the two times meet, will be interesting to see.

                      • Why does Nemesis need all of the viable candidates to leave with him? He needs to kill all 6 because they are all likely replacements for Jacob. And he told Jacob that he would kill any replacement to be free of the island.
                      • What is Widmore's purpose in bringing Desmond with him to the Island? Maybe because Desmond sat in one of the stations pressing that button for 3 years. It happened to be the station suppressing the electromagnetic energy. Maybe that exposure did more that we know. We know when the hatch blew that Desmond could see flashes of the future. We know he time traveled in The Constant. Maybe that is just the tip of his abilities. I think Charles knew how Desmond would play into this all along. That is why he did not want Penny involved with him.
                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#25 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:10 AM EDT
                      T Bourlon

                      "It seems all of the old island gang is now in Los Angeles. What are the chances of that? It is like LA is now the island."

                      Yeah, and is it hard to figure that Jin will take Sun to JACK for the bullet wound?

                      • 1 vote
                      #25.1 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:10 AM EDT
                      belle42

                      Of course everyone is in LA -- that's where the plane landed!!

                        #25.2 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:58 PM EDT
                        Santa Rosa Mental Health Institute
                        • Why does Nemesis need all of the viable candidates to leave with him?

                          See a lot of people saying he'll just take them so he can kill them. A simplified way is to say, by taking all of them he's not just killing them - but everyone/everything.

                          #25.3 - Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:37 PM EDT
                          Ross-883683

                          Duh, I know the plane landed in LA. I am talking about all the other people from the island who were not on the plane. What are the chances of all those people being in LA at the same time. That is all I meant.

                            #25.4 - Fri Apr 9, 2010 9:08 AM EDT
                            OnlyChild

                            lol -exactly - we got it

                              #25.5 - Fri Apr 9, 2010 1:58 PM EDT
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