Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
Advertise | AdChoices
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
Visit Steve Watts's column >>

STEVE WATTS

Electronic Aficionado
Articles Posted: 322  Links Seeded: 1162
Member Since: 3/2006  Last Seen: 5/16/2012

What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

LOST: Hurley Discovers That "Everybody Loves Hugo"

Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:13 PM EDT
entertainment, television, tv, abc, lost, lost-in-the-vines, litv
By Steve Watts

Live Poll

What did you think of tonight's episode?

View Results
  • 93106
    Fantastic
    61%
  • 93107
    Pretty good
    32%
  • 93108
    Mediocre
    6%
  • 93109
    Terrible
    1%

VoteTotal Votes: 311

Advertise | AdChoices

Hurley slowly realizes a lost love as he gains confidence in leadership, while Desmond's presence challenges Nemesis.


Note: "Lost in the Vines" is made for discussion of the series "Lost" on ABC. As such, here be spoilers! We talk frankly about the events of the night, speculate about future events, and so on. Read no further if you don't want spoilers.

ABC Preview:

Hurley agonizes over what the group should do next, and Locke is curious about the new arrival to his camp.

The Big Reveal: Ilana has died; the Whispers are souls trapped on the Island for what they've done; Nemesis pushed Desmond down a well; Desmond hit Locke in the sideways timeline with his car.

Summary

Pierre Chang announces before a crowd that everyone loves Hugo. He says that he's been a beacon of life, and outlines his history with the Mr. Cluck's franchise. He tells about how Hugo opened parks, playgrounds, hospitals. He says that tonight is the opening of the Hugo Reyes Paleontology Wing. He introduces their man of the year, Hugo Reyes. Hugo stands up and takes in the applause.

Hurley shows off his trophy to his mother. She says women don't love him, and he needs a woman in his life. He says he's too busy to meet someone, but she accuses him of being scared. He denies it and she says she set up a date tomorrow with the neighbor's daughter, Rosalita. She insists that he goes, and says that they need to find someone who will love him.

Hurley lays down a flower at Libby's grave. He tells her that he wishes he could talk to her about everything that's been happening. He says a lot of dead people have come to him after they were gone, and it would be nice if she did too. He's interrupted by Ilana, telling him they're going to the Black Rock to gather some dynamite. He asks if it's the right move, and she says it's the only move they have. She asks whose grave it is, and he tells her Libby was in the tail section. They were going to have their first date, a picnic, but she was murdered. Ilana says she's sorry and leaves. Hurley tearfully says yeah, me too.

He hears voices from the brush, and Michael appears. He says he's here to stop Hurley from getting everyone killed.

=================

Hurley asks why he should trust Michael, but he says that doesn't matter right now. He says if they blow up the plane, a lot of people are going to die and it will be his fault. People are listening to him now. Jack comes and asks Hurley who he's talking to, and he says no one. Jack says to come on, because they're leaving.

Hurley eats some chips alone at a restaurant, and the water goes to refill his chips. Hurley tells him to leave the silver, because he's meeting someone, and she's on the way. He picks up a menu, and Libby comes to say hello. He says it's nice to meet her, and he wasn't expecting someone so pretty. He says she doesn't look like a Rosalita, and she says her name is Libby. He asks if she's not his blind date, and she says she saw him from across the room. Hurley asks how she knows his name, and she says he'd think she's crazy. He assures her he won't. She takes his hands and asks if she believes people can be connected, like soul mates. She asks if he remembers her, and he asks if he should. Dr. Brooks comes and takes Libby, saying she's just wandered off. She tells him that she meant everything she said. Dr. Brooks takes her away, asking for forgiveness.

Hurley goes out to see Libby being taken into the van, with "Santa Rosa Mental Health Institute" along the side.

Ilana tells everyone to go, since they have to get there before nightfall. She says she has enough dynamite that the plane will never fall. Hurley says it isn't a good idea, since the dynamite is unstable. Ilana says she's been training her life to protect him. Hurley asks how blowing the plane up will protect them, and she says Nemesis won't be able to leave the Island. Hurley points out that neither will they, and Nemesis will just be angry at them. Ilana says that Jacob said to follow Richard, and Hurley asks, what if Richard is wrong? Ilana says Nemesis is evil, but is interrupted with the dynamite explodes in her pack, blowing her up.

Sawyer asks what Nemesis is carving, and he says when the time is right it will tell him. Nemesis asks what he can do for them, and Sawyer says "anything." Nemesis says there's a difference between doing nothing and waiting. He points out that they all came to the Island together, and they need to leave the same way. He says they're waiting for Hugo, Sun, and Jack to come. Kate says she doesn't see that happening, and he says they need to hope she's wrong.

Sayid approaches, and asks to talk to Nemesis in private. Nemesis asks him if everything went alright, and if Widmore saw him. he said no, but his people did, and he didn't see the point in killing them. Nemesis presses him on if he saw what was in the submarine. Sayid says he did, and shows him Desmond.

=================

Hurley looks through Ilana's camp. Meanwhile, Richard rifles through her things, and says they need to get more dynamite or Ilana died for nothing. Jack suggests she died to let them know to stay away from the dynamite. Richard says that's a risk he's willing to take, and Jack shouldn't have told Sun he'd get her off the Island. Hurley says Richard is right and it's the only choice they've got. He asks Jack to trust him.

Hurley walks into a Mr. Cluck and asks for a bucket of chicken. Desmond sees him and asks if he's seen him before. Hurley says he owns the place, but Desmond asks if he was on Oceanic 815 from Sydney a week ago. Desmond sits down and Hurley says he eats when he's depressed. Desmond asks what's wrong, and Hurley tells him about Libby and how she's crazy. He says she literally lives in the looney bin. He says she told him they knew each other, and he'd remember that. Desmond leans forward, asking if he believed her. Hurley says, yes, kind of. Desmond says he should try to find out where she thinks she knows him from, before he gives up on her. Desmond's order is called, and he says it was nice bumping into him.

Nemesis says he's sorry for tying Desmond up, but he thought he'd run. Desmond says he doesn't blame him, but he has no where to run to. Nemesis cuts his ropes, and asks if he can ask him a couple questions. He asks why he brought him back to the Island. Desmond says he was kidnapped, so they'd have to ask him. Sayid confirms his story. Desmond tells him about the blast of electromagnetism. Nemesis asks how he can be sure what he was blasted with. Desmond says experience. Nemesis asks who he is, and Desmond says he's John Locke. Nemesis tells Sayid to head back to camp, and that Desmond and he need to take a walk. He offers his hand and says he'd like to show Desmond something.

Walking through the jungle, Ben asks if Ilana's fate makes them think. He says she was hand-picked to protect them, and no sooner does she tell them who they are does she blow up. He says the Island was done with her, and it makes him wonder what will happen when it's done with them. They come to the Black Rock, and Richard says it might take a few minutes, but he wants to be the only one handling the dynamite. They wonder where Hurley is, and see him running from the Black Rock. He shouts at everyone to get back, and the ship blows up. Richard asks why he did that. Hurley says he's protecting them.

=================

Richard and Jack argue over Hurley's actions. Miles tells him a warning might've been nice. He asks why he did that, and Hurley says that Michael told him to. He says that he's one of the people that comes back and yells at him after they die. He says they had to stop from blowing up the plane. Miles asks if it happens a lot, and if he listens to whatever they say. Hurley says that dead people are more reliable than alive people.

Hurley meets with Dr. Brooks, and asks if he can see Libby. Brooks says it's not a good idea. Hurley says she's good enough for a fajita field trip, but Brooks says he misjudged her. He says she has issues with reality, and it wouldn't be a good idea to see her right now. Hurley says he could make an exception. Brooks says maybe for family, and Hurley says what about a generous donor? He offers $100,000 to help with the rec room.

Hurley sits in the rec room and Libby enters. She asks if he remembered, but he says no. She asks why he's here, and he asks where she knows him from. She says she's not sure, and she knows it doesn't make sense. She says a few days ago she saw his commercial and the moment she saw him, she got a flash of memories of her life, but it was another life. He asks, what kind of memories? She says there was a plane crash and she was on an Island, and he was there. She says they liked each other on the Island. She says when she got here it was as if she had been here before, and she had some kind of memory of him being here too. He says this is the first time he's been in a mental hospital. She says she can't get him out of her brain, and that's why she had to talk to him, to see if he remembered her. He says he wishes he could, but he can't. She tearfully says she's crazy. He says probably, but it takes courage to walk up to a stranger that way. He says he's scared just saying hi to a girl. She tells him he's doing fine. He asks if she ever gets out, and she says she's here voluntarily. He asks if she'd like to do something. She asks like, a date? He says yes. She says she'd love that.

Nemesis asks Desmond how long he was in the hatch pushing the button, and he says three years. Nemesis says if he didn't know better he'd think the Island had it in for him. Desmond says there's nothing special about him, the Island has it in for all of them. Nemesis sees the little boy, and Desmond asks who he is. Nemesis tells him to ignore him. Desmond asks if he knows the boy, and Nemesis shouts to ignore him. The boy grins.

Richard says he's going to get grenades and explosives. Jack says that maybe they should talk about this. Richard asks if he has any other ideas to keep Nemesis from leaving. Hurley suggests they go talk to Locke. When questioned, he says it's Jacob's idea. Richard asks if Jacob is here right now. Hurley says yes. Richard says to ask Jacob what the Island is, to prove that he's really standing there. Hurley says he doesn't have to prove anything; he can come with him, or he can keep trying to blow stuff up. Richard accuses him of lying, and says Jacob never tells them what to do. Richard says if Nemesis leaves the Island, then everything is over. He asks who will come with him to destroy the plane. Ben joins, followed by Miles. Jack says he'll go with Hurley. Richard tells them not to get in their way. Jack says, alright, let's go talk to Locke.

=================

Jack's group walks through the jungle. Sun writes a question, asking if they made a mistake. Frank says probably. Hurley talks to Jack about what to say to Nemesis. Jack says not to worry about it, and he'll probably do most of the talking. Hurley says he could just kill them all. He says he didn't see Jacob back there, he just said it because he wanted everyone to listen to him. Jack says he knows. Hurley asks why he came with him, then. Jack says that since Juliet died, he's just wanted to fix it. He says he can't ever fix it. He says it's hard to sit back and listen to what other people want him to do, but maybe that's the point, maybe he's supposed to let go. Hurley says letting go might get them all killed. Jack says Hurley asked him for his trust, and this is him trusting. Hurley says that's good, because he has no idea where he's going. They hear voices from the jungle, and Hurley says he thinks he knows what these things are. He tells the others to wait, and goes deeper into the jungle.

He calls for Michael, who appears from out of the jungle. He asks if Michael is stuck on the Island, and Michael confirms he's stuck here because of what he did. Hurley says there are others stuck, and that's what the whispers are. Hurley asks where Locke is, and Michael points him towards a spot lower in the lands. Hurley asks if there's anything he can do to help him, and Michael tells him not to get himself killed. Michael tells Hurley that if he ever sees Libby again, tell her he's very sorry.

Hurley sets up a picnic on the beach. He tells her he got a bunch of cheeses, because everybody likes cheese. He asks her if something is wrong. She says nothing is wrong, just off. He asks if she's been here before, and she says being here with him feels familiar, like a date they never had. She asks if she sounds completely insane, and he says no, not completely. She asks why he wants to be with her, and he asks her the same question. She says she wants to be with him because she likes him. He says yeah, but she likes him because she's delusional. She leans forward and kisses him, and he sees their life on the Island. He says he thinks he's remembering. She asks if she's not crazy, and he says he doesn't think she is. From his car, Desmond watches them and drives away.

=================

Nemesis leads Desmond to a stone structure. Desmond asks what it is, and Nemesis tells him it's a well. Nemesis says he bets Desmond is wondering how deep it is, and drops down a lantern to show him. He asks if he has any idea how old the well is. Desmond simply says, very old. Nemesis says it's so old that the people who dug the well did it completely by hand. Desmond says it's a lot of work to get some water. Nemesis says they weren't looking for water, they were looking for answers. He says that areas like this made compass needles spin, and the people wanted to know why, so they dug. He says they didn't find what they were looking for. Nemesis tells him that Widmore isn't interested in answers, he's interested in power. He says he brought Desmond to the Island so he can find what he's looking for. He tells him this isn't the only well. Desmond asks, is that the reason he wanted him to see this? Nemesis asks Desmond why he isn't afraid. He says he's out in the middle of the jungle with him, and no one knows he's here, so why isn't he afraid? Desmond asks, what's the point of being afraid? Nemesis pushes him down the well.

Nemesis comes back to camp, and tells Sayid they don't have to worry about Desmond anymore. Sawyer asks where he's been. Nemesis says he went for a walk. Sawyer starts to reply, but pauses when he sees Hurley walking from the jungle. Hurley says hello, and Nemesis greets him. Hurley says he doesn't know who he is, or what he wants, but they need to talk to him. He says there are other people with him, and they both have weapons and he doesn't want anyone to get hurt or killed. He tells Nemesis that they're not going to do anything, and he doesn't want his men to do anything either. Nemesis offers Hurley his knife, and tells him he has his word. Hurley calls for the others to come out of the jungle. Sun looks for Jin but doesn't see him, and then Jack walks out and meets Kate's eyes. Nemesis says hello to Jack.

Desmond watches Locke wheeling away from the school. Ben knocks on Desmond's window outside school grounds. He asks if he's waiting for anyone in particular. Ben says he's been parked here looking at kids, and asks if he has a child who goes to school here. Desmond says he's looking for a school for his son, Charlie. Ben says he can vouch for it, and Desmond thanks him. Desmond starts his car and drives quickly towards Locke, hitting him out of his wheelchair. Ben runs to help Locke as Desmond drives away.

Cut to LOST

The Big Questions:

  • Why did Desmond give himself up to Nemesis so easily?
  • Why is it a bad idea to blow up the plane?
  • Who is the little boy that frightens Nemesis?
  • Why are the Whispers trapped on the Island?
  • Who dug up the well, and why? What significance does it have?
  • Why did Nemesis push Desmond down the well?
  • Why did Jack and Nemesis give each other such a cold stare?
  • Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car?

Lost in the Vines Trivia Question:

What was the name of the Mexican restaurant where Hurley met Libby?

This Week in Original Articles:

Once again those who write original articles this year will be entered (once per week) in this year's contest. Contributing original articles or being the first to answer the trivia questions are the ways to be entered, so feel free to write!

  • Blast this map! How do we get from here to there? (say what??)
  • War of the Worlds (say what??)

Next, on Lost: The Last Recruit

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Back To Top | Front Page

Published to:

  • Steve Watts's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: Entertainment Gateway, Lost in the Vines, TV Lounge
  • Regions: none
  • Public Discussion (389)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3
Steve Watts

Fantastic episode! One quick note before I move to the show in particular. Yes, I know this shouldn't be marked as a "News Event." For some reason, it wouldn't let me save otherwise. Weird, but I figured I'd at least mark it as a News Event as a workaround for now.

So much to cheer for this week. I love that Desmond is serving as a kind of spirit guide. After all these years of hearing he's important, we're finally seeing him really come into a necessary role in the mythology. The explanation for the Whispers has been a long time coming. And finally, the Hurley and Libby scenes were absolutely spot-on perfect. Almost, almost to the level of perfection from "The Constant." Episodes like this remind me why I love this show.

Why did Desmond give himself up to Nemesis so easily?

A bit of a redundant question from last week, but we saw him going all Zen Mode again, and it's still not totally clear why. This seems like something they're slowly building towards.

Why is it a bad idea to blow up the plane?

Seems like a pretty good idea to me, but if Michael says it will kill everybody we should pay attention. If there's one thing Michael knows, it's killing people. That and WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALT.

Who is the little boy that frightens Nemesis?

This is definitely one of those things that they're building towards a reveal for. Maybe a Nemesis flashback episode? At any rate, he seems to be some kind of spirit-guide or rule keeper. He's clearly the one making sure both Nemesis and Jacob keep their power balance. But it's very interesting that Desmond could see him this time.

Why are the Whispers trapped on the Island?

This is what I'll refer to as a "midichlorian question." In other words, it's magic, and we're just supposed to accept it. The answer isn't that important, and overcomplicating it won't do anything but frustrate us. I tend to think the Whispers are probably the people who have done something wrong on the Island, the ones who have messed up morally somehow. To hear Jacob and Nemesis talk about it, that's happened plenty of times.

Who dug up the well, and why? What significance does it have?

I doubt it has real significance. Just somewhere for Nemesis to trap Desmond.

Why did Nemesis push Desmond down the well?

To get rid of him, clearly. But in the larger scheme, he was clearly very uncomfortable by the fact that Desmond isn't afraid of him. That's what I find most telling about that exchange.

Why did Jack and Nemesis give each other such a cold stare?

I think Jack is becoming the next Jacob, and Nemesis could sense that in him.

Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car?

I predict that alt-Locke will be able to walk now, and that will be what sparks his "memories" of the other reality. Desmond just performed a felony in his spirit guide duties.

  • 16 votes
#1 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:22 PM EDT
Steve Watts

Thought of this too late to edit my comment, but another thought. Maybe the Whispers aren't simply "bad people" who have died on the Island, but rather failed candidates. To me, at least, that's a much more satisfying answer than them simply being restless ghosts.

  • 10 votes
#1.1 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:26 PM EDT
Syntactic Tree

Why did Desmond give himself up to Nemesis so easily?

I agree with your take - he has become very zen, for whatever reason. But if, as next week's previews seem to suggest (although I learned long ago about the editing techniques used in previews), Sayid shoots Desmond in the well as a consequence of Desmond's zen-ness, I will lose it!; that CANNOT happen.

Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car?

This was horrifying. There had better be a good explanation for this - and by that I mean the outcome had better be a positive one; i.e., Desmond hit Locke with his car because [something positive came from it, which was his intention all along].

And it was nice having Hurley and Miles back with their witty comments!

  • 3 votes
#1.2 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
Lori-1673701

Who dug up the well, and why? What significance does it have?

I doubt it has real significance. Just somewhere for Nemesis to trap Desmond.

I do not have the DVR but didn't Locke & someone try to go into the well and the time flashes started. One fell in & the other was still holding the rope up top but the well was filled when the time flashed finished.

  • 3 votes
#1.3 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:44 PM EDT
Samhill

Yeah...Locke was in the well and Sawyer was holding the rope

  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:00 PM EDT
BlackRock Steve

Who dug up the well, and why? What significance does it have?

I doubt it has real significance. Just somewhere for Nemesis to trap Desmond.

Wow, Steve, I was really surprised when you said that...When NemLocke said to Desmond he was taking to show him something, I said to my wife: He's taking him to the well! I went bonkers when I was right...since we saw Illana blow up tonight...go back to the debate a year ago over last season's riddle: "What lies in the Shadow of the Statue?"...and per Ricardo's answer: "He who shall save us all."....A year ago I posted that, as seen in the time travels by the Losties, the donkey wheel well is located near the Orchid and lies in the shadow of the statue...and now, we have the reveal as to who the "he" is...Desmond!!

Desmond is saving all, by being the "spirit guide" as you aptly named him in the sideways dimension and by doing whatever the "sacrifice" is that Widmore says is required!...maybe just my theory, but this was a BIG reveal tonight and validation of the riddle/answer, the well, and Desmond's role!...something we have been speculating about for most of the season!

  • 9 votes
#1.5 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:05 PM EDT
Steve Watts

I agree with your take - he has become very zen, for whatever reason. But if, as next week's previews seem to suggest (although I learned long ago about the editing techniques used in previews), Sayid shoots Desmond in the well as a consequence of Desmond's zen-ness, I will lose it!; that CANNOT happen.

I'm going to call bull-shot on that promo. I think they had a shot of Sayid holding a gun, and the editors of the promo added a gun flash for tension. The effect looked very fake to me, like it wasn't actually a fired blank, and Sayid didn't appear to do anything to make it happen.

  • 6 votes
#1.6 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:37 PM EDT
NCL70506

I don't have a DVR either, but I thought the little boy in tonight's episode looked different from the previous boy we saw. The boy tonight had dark hair, and the previous one had blonde hair. Tonight's boy did not speak, I did not see blood on him, and he had a strange grin on his face. MIB was not afraid of him either. In fact, he just ignored him. Hmmm.

  • 6 votes
#1.7 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:57 PM EDT
BlackRock Steve

NCL.....I not only highly agree with you but, as I said in post 10.3 below, this scene was a big reveal for me, especially with MIB's lack of reaction to him...for me, it meant that the blond-haired kid in "the Substitute" was in fact JACOB, which is why NemLocke reacted to him so much and the "don't tell me what i can't do!", and this kid was MIB (himself) as a boy!

  • 6 votes
#1.8 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:32 AM EDT
Inchiki

BRS,

Great point. The young blonde is Jacob and the young dark-haired is MIB . . . makes immeasurable amount of sense. So does that mean that the conflict started when they were youths so very, very long ago, or is it more symbolic? Does this also mean that MIB wasn't telling the truth about having his form taken, or was he talking only about his "humanity"?

Reminds me of series of stories by the English fantasy writer, Michael Moorcock. In the books referred to as the Chronicles of Corum, there were two gods, brothers in fact. There was only one law that they abided by, the oath they made to each other. That oath was broken and the two gods fought each other. For breaking the oath, they were doomed to look forever for the things that would restore their oath. They could also be released from their doom at the end of their universe, when a new universe would take form under a new set of laws. Very good read as some of the books are actually based on Celtic legends of the Tuatha de Danaan.

  • 6 votes
#1.9 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:05 AM EDT
formermormon

I like your theory about the well, Steve, and about the line "he who will save us". I just want to clarify one thing. Was it the same well? When they first walked up to it, I was certain that it was and thought the destination was the donkey wheel, but then I got to thinking...where is the building that was there? Where is the Orchid? Where is the statue? They seemed to be in a different clearing and the well seemed different...bricks...and there was no rope. Could there be two or more different wells?

  • 6 votes
#1.10 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:08 AM EDT
BlackRock Steve

Formermormon...I'm still thinking it is the same well but will have to review that scene again.

Inchiki...Wow, the Chronicles of Corum...I had forgot all about them! I never read the whole series...will have to do that. Ever since last May's finale and the beach scene, I immediately thought of an old Greek fable I had read which is the Greek version of the Egyptian Set vs. Horus myth. I have assumed since then that Jacob & MIB are brothers and that their "conflict/game" started just after their youth when they were young men, and that Jacob stole MIB's humanity and his human form...thus, forcing MIB to take the form of various folks who have died on the island or remain as only Smokey for a form.

  • 1 vote
#1.11 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:28 AM EDT
NCL70506

BRS - I agree with you also. They probably are brothers, with Jacob being the blonde boy and MIB being the dark haired boy. It makes sense that the blonde boy showed up with blood on him after Jacob's death. Then tonight, the dark haired boy appears and smiles, kind of like he is looking at MIB (himself) and feeling happy that he is close to "winning." I thought the dark haired boy looked a little older than the blonde boy, so I am going to guess that MIB is the older brother. I am also looking forward to the episode that will reveal (hopefully) the origins of their conflict and the Island itself. I am curious to see how and why Jacob took MIB's humanity and form.

  • 4 votes
#1.12 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:53 AM EDT
say what??

I'm still thinking it is the same well but will have to review that scene again.

NemLocke told Desmond they hand dug the well because they were looking for answers – to find out why places like that made compass needles spin, and at that well they didn’t find their answer, they didn’t find what they were looking for. He told Des that Widmore is only interested in power, not answers, and brought Des to the island "to help him find what he’s looking for – after all, this isn’t the only well." Eventually the well diggers did find what they were looking for - the energy pocket where the donkey wheel was later installed. The wells were hand dug - it took a lot of work and persistence - and by NemLocke saying "after all, this isn't the only well" he is showing he knows Widmore will be a persistent, hard working foe. He got rid of Desmond in the same way Eloise in sideways world could try to get rid of persistent Desmond if he doesn't stop looking for whatever it is he's looking for. (BTW I don't think we've seen the last of Desmond on the island).

  • 3 votes
#1.13 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:02 AM EDT
Scott (Scoop) Butki

One of my favorite episodes this season.

  • 3 votes
#1.14 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:25 AM EDT
Deborah SG

Who is the little boy that frightens Nemesis?

The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling [a] together;
and a little child will lead them.
-- Isaiah 11:6

  • 3 votes
#1.15 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:12 AM EDT
sweetpeas2ds

BRS, I thought that too that this boy we saw last night was MIB as a boy which explained to me why Locke had such an....unfavorable reaction to the blonde boy (young Jacob). Can't wait to find out!

  • 1 vote
#1.16 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:12 AM EDT
Deborah SG

Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car?

Sideways Locke still has a little Flocke in him, and must die to keep the earth safe.

  • 2 votes
#1.17 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:14 AM EDT
Deborah SG

Sawyer still has the best sneer on the island :)

  • 3 votes
#1.18 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:37 AM EDT
Spikegary

Jacon + MIB. Do they equal Cain and Abel?

  • 1 vote
#1.19 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:08 AM EDT
Shaun Guidolin

my initial thought on Locke getting hit with the car is that he'll be taken to the hospital, where he is sure to be teamed back up with Jack -- which of course mirrors the island right now.

My thoughts on the well ....

1 - Desmond knew he was going in that well (and in effect so does Widmore)

2 - NemLocke was talking alot about electro-maginitism and that well - which mirrors the "test" that Desmond passed, so pehaps what's needed to save the island is in that well.

  • 4 votes
#1.20 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:21 AM EDT
Rob-2

I think Jack is becoming the next Jacob, and Nemesis could sense that in him.

That exact thought occured to me last night! Jack seems so calm and it appears as if he is letting things happen without getting directly involved. Letting Ilana do her thing, letting Hurley lead and doing so willingly. He appears to be transforming into a "Jacob" like figure. Glad I'm not the only one who thought of that last night. My wife thinks I'm crazy.

  • 3 votes
#1.21 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:23 AM EDT
Jilie

I thought maybe the whispers are from people who have killed candidates

  • 3 votes
#1.22 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:58 AM EDT
johnkathy94

i agree with Shaun - Desmond hit Locke so he could meet Jack. Slowly, he will ensure that the Sideways losties meet and remember the island losties, which will then allow the two worlds to merge

  • 1 vote
#1.23 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:41 AM EDT
Shaun Guidolin

one -- check those archives, I predicted Jack as Jacob this long ago :) [ although I also had Sawyer as Nemesis, so only 1/2 right ]

i agree with Shaun - Desmond hit Locke so he could meet Jack. Slowly, he will ensure that the Sideways losties meet and remember the island losties, which will then allow the two worlds to merge

My question though about worlds that merge -- what happens to people that have died in the "Lost" world? Libby and the real Locke to name a few ...

  • 1 vote
#1.24 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:46 AM EDT
mrosebud42

I JUST GOT IT!!! Desmond hit Locke with the car so Jack can be his doctor.

  • 3 votes
#1.25 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:55 AM EDT
Inchiki

Jacon + MIB. Do they equal Cain and Abel? Spikegarry

They probably are brothers, with Jacob being the blonde boy and MIB being the dark haired boy. . . I am curious to see how and why Jacob took MIB's humanity and form. NCL70506

In following Lockeanman's lead (#8), Jacob and MIB's story may more closely follow the Jacob/Esau story. Esau was the elder son who was going to inherit everything from their father. Jacob pretended to be Esau (wearing animal skins to imitate Esau's hairy form) in order to gain that birthright. Jacob also cooked a meal for their father that Esau normally would make. And it was Jacob's mother, who was worrying for her son, that gave Jacob the idea of how to win the birthrights.

I hope that the writers have come up with something amazing as to Jacob/MIB's backstory as they have set the bar pretty high.

  • 1 vote
#1.26 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:04 PM EDT
Spikegary

Me too-thank you for the story, BTW, I vaguely remember it from my youth, but didn't recall the details.....there still seems to be something Middle Eastern/Egyptian-the Statue (when it stood) and Richard's eyeliner.....

  • 1 vote
#1.27 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:17 PM EDT
Superman2001

I JUST GOT IT!!! Desmond hit Locke with the car so Jack can be his doctor.

You have to go to the edge before you can recognize the other side. Charlie was at the brink of death, so was Desmond, and now Locke will recognize his other existence, I guess. Libby and Hurley are apparently different.

  • 1 vote
#1.28 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:32 PM EDT
belle42

Superman,

It seems that love and death are triggers. Penny/Desmond touched causing a 'leap'. Libby/Hurley kissed causing a vision. Locke has no love relationship on the Island other than his love OF the Island. Therefore the only way to bring him to visions is near-death.

Either that or if sideLocke dies, MIB has nowhere in sidewaysland to leap, preventing all heck from breaking loose there...

  • 6 votes
#1.29 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:52 PM EDT
Pfemm

Either that or if sideLocke dies

if they kill him again, I will be so upset. Why can't the man just be happy

  • 2 votes
#1.30 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:12 PM EDT
RadleyIsMyConstant

Exactly! Great point, Superman and belle. This would explain why Juliet glimpsed the sideways world just before her death and told Sawyer "It worked."

  • 5 votes
#1.31 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:34 PM EDT
LockeanMan1

BRS - regarding your comments: ""What lies in the Shadow of the Statue?"...and per Ricardo's answer: "He who shall save us all."....A year ago I posted that, as seen in the time travels by the Losties, the donkey wheel well is located near the Orchid and lies in the shadow of the statue...and now, we have the reveal as to who the "he" is...Desmond!!"

Since last year's finale, I think the thing lying in the shadow of the statue is none other than (good) Locke's dead body. I know, I sound like a broken record, but I think Locke is going to be the one who saves everyone. His body was dumped out on the beach when they said this and I think Desmond is going to EM him back to llife (maybe with the donkey wheel & some EM-Island magic. My prediction is that Desmond sent him to his grave in Sideways World & is going to raise him up from the grave in Real World.

  • 1 vote
#1.32 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:31 PM EDT
Santa Rosa Mental Health Institute

I'm gonna answer the Big Questions a lil out of order so they play off each other...

  • Who is the little boy that frightens Nemesis?
    Because the little boy(s) we've seen look different from each other, I'm just hoping they ARE different and that someone didn't mess up a memo by hiring fraternal twins to play the same "Full House" part, hee hee.
    What's interesting to me about the raggedy boy(s) is the similarity in dress to how the "Others costumes" appear, so it seems like whoever he/they are is something the Others aspired to look like - so you'd think Ben would know!
  • Why are the Whispers trapped on the Island?
    A couple above said, a)dead candidates or b)candidate killers.....well this supposes Michael either was a candidate or killed one. I'd ONLY buy a) if only by association to Walt, who seemed candidate-worthy.
    If b) then from what I remember either Ana Lucia, Libby or someone on the freighter was a candidate? Those options I don't buy at all.
    BUT EITHER WAY I think the whispers are tied to NEMESIS because of previous allusions to the whispers announcing the Smoke Monster was near. Like Ben telling Rousseau in the '88 flashback to run when she hears whispers. So if that's the case, is Michael aiding Nemesis with this advice to Hurley? That flew in the face of what Richard/Ilana wanted? Hmmm...
  • Why is it a bad idea to blow up the plane?
    It could be viewed as bad for either side, as SOMEONE surely wants to get off the island! But considering Island/dead Michael(/Nemesis?) SAYS it's bad, it's simply gonna do whatever's necessary so it wouldn't happen no matter who really benefits from having a backwards plane around later...
  • Why did Desmond give himself up to Nemesis so easily?
    I'm beginning to think Des is like an anti-Charlie who CAN'T DIE and this is Widmore strategy playing to that. Remember when Michael couldn't die? Remember Des getting shot by Ben? Like Des knows the Island's got his back until it's done with him...
  • Who dug up the well, and why? What significance does it have?
    The why it seems like they answered - the rest is a "SKIP!"
  • Why did Nemesis push Desmond down the well?
    Because he saw the little boy too? OR maybe he just thinks Des can no longer be an asset to Widmore way down there? I think Nemesis may not "get" the whole Des thing...but seeing lil raggedy boys seems like a bad way to build rapport with Nem!
  • Why did Jack and Nemesis give each other such a cold stare?
    I'd think after the whole temple thing Jack is viewed fairly or not as the leader among that group who didn't stick around.
  • Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car?
    It's amazing how quickly Des has achieved full dual-dimension awareness to know what's going on. What struck me is how Ben, the guy who "recently" shot him, approached him right before this. Maybe seeing Ben (if not getting thrown down a well by Nem) told Des Locke had to be taken out. It also seems Widmore would make Des hip to the whole "he ain't Locke" thing...
    • #1.33 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:12 PM EDT
      Psybrkymi

      FYI ... same actor played the young boy in both episodes (according to IMDB). And I agree with the Cain & Abel theme ... ying/yang ... black/white. Brothers being equal halves seems to make the most sense.

        #1.34 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:32 PM EDT
        Reply
        johnkathy94

        wow is all i can say. i thought great episode. i was a little disappointed that the whispers were what they were. seemed kind of simple but if i were to go back and try to listen to them, it probably make sense. as for desmond hitting locke - payback is a bitch. maybe it is an equalizer, you hit me on the island, i hit you in sideways time. is is next tuesday yet? did anyone else catch the background for scenes for next week? willy wonka makes an appearance

        • 4 votes
        Reply#2 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:34 PM EDT
        Samhill

        There's no earthly way of knowing Which direction we are going There's no knowing where we're rowing Or which way the river's flowing Is it raining, is it snowing Is a hurricane a-blowing Not a speck of light is showing So the danger must be growing Are the fires of Hell a-glowing Is the grisly reaper mowing

        :)

        • 7 votes
        #2.1 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:40 PM EDT
        Anon Emous

        Ooh! I missed that (gotta listen for it when I rewatch it tomorrow)

        Very cool

        • 2 votes
        #2.2 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:16 PM EDT
        Jekazu

        I caught that, too. Very fitting for LOST!

        • 1 vote
        #2.3 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:54 AM EDT
        mrosebud42

        Made me giggle....

        • 2 votes
        #2.4 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:56 AM EDT
        Carri-1086592

        My husband asked what song that was, when I looked shocked and said Willy Wonka, he revealed he has never seen it! I know what I will make him watch this weekend!!

          #2.5 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:27 PM EDT
          Reply
          Anjillina
          • Why did Desmond give himself up to Nemesis so easily? He's not giving up. He and Widmore worked out a plan already. He is doing the plan. They just didn't show the conference with Widmore on screen.
          • Why is it a bad idea to blow up the plane? Has the potential to kill the wrong people. Also, explosions do weird things on the island. Might set off another time anomoly or something.
          • Who is the little boy that frightens Nemesis? I still think it looks like Aaron. But more likely it's either young Jacob or something similar. Something that gives him the idea that he still hasn't won.
          • Why are the Whispers trapped on the Island? Because they chose to side with Nemesis and turned their back on good.
          • Who dug up the well, and why? What significance does it have? Somebody between statue time and now. Looking for the cause of the magnetic anomolies on the island. Wanted to be able to control the island (which to some effect worked because that's where the frozen donkey wheel lives)
          • Why did Nemesis push Desmond down the well? To kill him. Drown him. Didn't work.
          • Why did Jack and Nemesis give each other such a cold stare? Jack hasn't seen Locke since he was dead. Locke was the one who kept trying to convince Jack to believe. It's probably a huge affront to Jack that Nemesis is running around in Locke's body.
          • Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car? To eliminate Nemesis tool in the alternate universe to try to prevent the "Locke" version of Nemesis taking over the world in any universe.

          Cheers - Hurley, Hurley, Hurley. Hurley and Libby! FINALLY! Desmond playing matchmaker. Also - HURRAH - Ileana is blown up. Whew. Finally rid of her anyway. Never liked her.

          Jeers - wish Ben and Miles hadn't run off with Richard. Stupid.

          • 3 votes
          Reply#3 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:37 PM EDT
          Katy-253048

          I agree that Widmore's plan includes this new Desmond.

          This young boy looked different to me than the one we saw another time. Maybe they are young Jacob and Nemesis?

          • 2 votes
          #3.1 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:42 PM EDT
          Syntactic Tree

          Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car? To eliminate Nemesis tool in the alternate universe to try to prevent the "Locke" version of Nemesis taking over the world in any universe.

          I don't know if that scenario is copacetic with the timelines, but, assuming that it might be, I think if Desmond truly wanted Locke gone in the sideways world, he would have made sure he was gone.

          • 3 votes
          #3.2 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:42 PM EDT
          Anjillina

          Good point Syntactic Tree. I didn't think about that - but you're right - he didn't try to absolutely kill him or anything. Although, given the speed and directness with which he hit him, I think death was still a legitimate possibility. I just wonder how he won't be prosecuted for it - because you know Ben wrote down the license number and can give a full description of him and everything after talking to him.

          Katy - I think it was the same boy, but slightly older. The face looked the same, but the hair was definitely darker. But I could be wrong.

          • 2 votes
          #3.3 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:16 AM EDT
          Mel-1637154

          I think Desmond tried to run over Locke so he would wind up at the hospital with Jack as his surgeon. Two birds, one stone.

          • 1 vote
          #3.4 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:25 AM EDT
          OnlyChild

          Good point Syntactic Tree. I didn't think about that - but you're right - he didn't try to absolutely kill him or anything. Although, given the speed and directness with which he hit him, I think death was still a legitimate possibility. I just wonder how he won't be prosecuted for it - because you know Ben wrote down the license number and can give a full description of him and everything after talking to him.

          You know, Sawyer and Miles have to show up to investigate a least one of these crimes -Sun being shot, Locke run down, the murders of Keamy. Could Sun, Jin, Locke, Ben, Sawyer, Miles, Jack, Juliette end up at the hospital at the same time? That would save time.

          • 6 votes
          #3.5 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:06 PM EDT
          NCL70506

          Anjillina - I also thought that Desmond was driving very intensely and purposely when he ran over Locke, and that Locke could certainly die as a result. I mentioned below that I am uncertain right now as to why Desmond did this - if it was for Locke to have a near-death experience and encounter Jack and have his Island flash memory, OR if Desmond did this with the intention of actually killing Locke, hoping to prevent Nemesis' use of his form. I guess we will find out soon enough.

          OnlyChild - I am trying to picture that scenario! That would certainly be an interesting scene. Some serious déjà vu moments would be going on!

            #3.6 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:17 PM EDT
            Superman2001

            Desmond can't prevent Nemesis from using Locke's form because it's already happened. Can't change the past.

            • 3 votes
            #3.7 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:36 PM EDT
            NCL70506

            Superman - Darn it, that's right. Whatever happened, happened. I need to remember this!

              #3.8 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:31 PM EDT
              jograyghost

              I'm not so sure. Charlie and Libby are alive and well in the Sideways flash

                #3.9 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:32 PM EDT
                Bordsox-999133

                Superman2001- Actually is has not happened in this reality. It is an alternate reality with a different history. You are confusing this with time travel happenings, so in efect by killing Locke on mainland perhaps he can not be used by Nemesis in this reality.

                • 1 vote
                #3.10 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:50 AM EDT
                Susanaree

                You know, Sawyer and Miles have to show up to investigate a least one of these crimes -Sun being shot, Locke run down, the murders of Keamy. Could Sun, Jin, Locke, Ben, Sawyer, Miles, Jack, Juliette end up at the hospital at the same time? That would save time.

                OnlyChild - We also have Claire and Kate at the hospital - Sayid's brother is there as well. If we could get Hurley there, we would have all six remaining candidates (as Ilana thought there were a couple of episodes ago) in one place in the Sideways world, as well as some of our other favorites.

                My head hurts.

                • 2 votes
                #3.11 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:24 PM EDT
                Superman2001

                @ Bordsox-999133

                Superman2001- Actually is has not happened in this reality. It is an alternate reality with a different history. You are confusing this with time travel happenings, so in efect by killing Locke on mainland perhaps he can not be used by Nemesis in this reality.

                In this sideways reality, 815 never crashed on the Island, so Locke can't be used by Nemesis anyways. We don't even know if Nemesis still exists because the Island is at the bottom of the Pacific.

                  #3.12 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:09 PM EDT
                  Reply
                  Samhill

                  Thought of this too late to edit my comment, but another thought. Maybe the Whispers aren't simply "bad people" who have died on the Island, but rather failed candidates. To me, at least, that's a much more satisfying answer than them simply being restless ghosts.

                  I like this thought, because I too initially thought it was all the "bad people" who died on the island. But then I felt very bad for Michael thinking he could be trapped there with the likes of Keamy, etc. I would rather think it's all good people who simply messed up badly.

                  • 2 votes
                  #4 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:38 PM EDT
                  Lost in Space and Time 316

                  Michael did say they were "those who can't move on". so is it they can't move on because the island won't let them, or can't they move on because they haven't repented yet?

                  • 2 votes
                  #4.1 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:32 AM EDT
                  kcjhawk

                  I thought when Michael sacrificed himself on the freighter that would have made him "even." Christian kind of implied that, too.

                  • 1 vote
                  #4.2 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:49 AM EDT
                  Shaun Guidolin

                  It would be one hell of a poker game with all the zombies ...

                  My thought on all this is that honestly I believe this is a plot hole and the writers didn't really have a good reason to explain the voices, so they went this angle. Personally I like the angle of it's voices from different time periods.. but we'll go with this one.

                  • 1 vote
                  #4.3 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:49 AM EDT
                  Lost on 41st street

                  I have two thoughts on Michael. Either he is misleading Hurley or the writers have pluncked an inconsistency into an exceptional episode. Michael did not die on the island so why would he be doomed there? Is the island a catch all for souls unable to move on no matter where they died. The freighter wasn't even inside the island's perimeter of influence when it exploded.

                  Third thought is that I am clueless...I am leaning toward that one since each week the story seemes to be moving itself further away from any of my theories.

                  • 3 votes
                  #4.4 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:01 PM EDT
                  Rennie-293321

                  lost on the 41st street

                  I think the freighter was in the perimeter of the island when it exploded with Michael on board. As I recall Juliet pointed out the smoke from the freighter explosion to Sawyer when he swam back to the beach. That may be why Michael ghost is on the island.

                  • 2 votes
                  #4.5 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:55 PM EDT
                  parent-43973

                  No, the freighter was outside the perimeter; Juliet and Sawyer could see it burning before the Island "moved", but not after. If it was inside the perimeter it would have moved with the Island (as did Jin, though he wasn't too far from the freighter after being blown off -- another "oops" by the writers).

                  • 1 vote
                  #4.6 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:15 PM EDT
                  sdaisy

                  It was in the perimeter because Jin moved with the island in the flashes and he was blown off the freighter

                  • 4 votes
                  #4.7 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:33 PM EDT
                  Jekazu

                  Good point, sdaisy.

                  • 1 vote
                  #4.8 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:40 PM EDT
                  say what??

                  I thought it was strange when Christian appeared to Michael just before the freighter blew up. Their exchange was very brief: Christian appeared and said, "You can go now, Michael” and Michael asked “Who are you?” and KABOOM! So, what was the point?? Was it a cryptic display, for future reference, of Christian’s ghost acting like the island’s Grim Reaper and ushering newcomer Michael to whisper world, or was it Smokey in disguise? If it was Smokey, what was the point??

                  • 1 vote
                  #4.9 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:26 PM EDT
                  Mike-780301

                  Interesting comment about the plot hole filler Shaun. I always had associated the voices in the beginning with the arrival of the others, so I too believe the writers just wanted to close one issue...

                    #4.10 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:05 PM EDT
                    Mike-780301

                    One other thought to the Christian on the boat being the smoke monster, didn't the smoke monster say he couldn't go across water 2 weeks ago? So how could he have been on the freighter?

                    • 1 vote
                    #4.11 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:08 PM EDT
                    Jekazu

                    Maybe Christian is something different all together, since Smokey did say he couldn't go across over water?

                      #4.12 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:13 PM EDT
                      Santa Rosa Mental Health Institute

                      LOL, looks like some people can't agree on some facts here - but we've already said why Christian isn't the smoke monster and that the freighter was not in the island's "grasp" - Jin only made it because he bailed from the blast into the "perimeter" in time for the plop-fizz of the donkey wheel. You'll see when we all rewatch after this is over!

                      And I love how as soon as someone says "plot hole" or "bad writing" on here a bunch of people come to the show's defense like there's no way that could happen. Plot holes can happen, what I'm more worried about is how the show ends and does that end make sense of MOST things (not just SOME things) we've devoted ourselves to? Right now I'm about 3-to-2 on the GOOD side (or, white rock slightly beating black rock)

                      • 1 vote
                      #4.13 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:35 PM EDT
                      lostinventura

                      From what I remember of the "flashes" is that people flashed, not objects (i.e. boats, statues, etc.) so the Boat could've been in close enough proximity to the island such that Michael's soul was abel to be trapped. something tells me we are just suppose to accept it as true that MCiahel; being kille don the boat was sufficient to have him tethered to the island. But I do agree that there's cause to pause given Christian's comments to Michael. perhaps redemption doesn't ensure souls move on.

                      • 1 vote
                      #4.14 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:06 PM EDT
                      Inchiki

                      Sure there are plot holes in this series, like in probably every serialized TV show. However, it's been shown that the Island has a connection and influences things in the "regular" world, as I'm sure the regular world has an effect on the Island.

                      Things like the lottery numbers in the regular world and on the Island is more than just a coincidence. But what I'm refering to is like a dead Charlie appearing to Hurley. Or more to the point, the way that Michael could not die because the Island was not through with him. If the Island has that effect on a living Michael, why is it so hard to believe that a "spirit" Michael is still tied to the Island?

                      • 3 votes
                      #4.15 - Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:51 AM EDT
                      Reply
                      Lori-1673701

                      Who dug up the well, and why? What significance does it have?

                      I doubt it has real significance. Just somewhere for Nemesis to trap Desmond.

                      I do not have the DVR but didn't Locke & someone try to go into the well and the time flashes started. One fell in & the other was still holding the rope up top but the well was filled when the time flashed finished.

                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#5 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:40 PM EDT
                      Lori-1673701

                      Oops, tried to reply to post 1

                      • 1 vote
                      #5.1 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:45 PM EDT
                      Reply
                      NotIntoMyths

                      I thought this was the well with the donkey wheel at the bottom. (Lori, in the episode you remember, Locke went down that well and Sawyer held the rope; a time shift occurred and Sawyer shifted to a time when the well was filled in. Locke fell to the bottom and fractured his tibia before managing to turn the wheel again, with Christian's guidance).

                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#6 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:45 PM EDT
                      Lori-1673701

                      Oh, not sure now which well they were at...

                      if at the one I remember than it had to be built after 1954 right? Since our losties only have jumped that far back. Unless it was dug and filled a few different times...

                      • 1 vote
                      #6.1 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:55 PM EDT
                      opus_rma

                      Yes, it was the episode where Locke went down the well to move the donkey wheel. I think it was the same well we saw tonight.

                      I think the well has existed for ages. Was built long before the cavern with the wheel was dug out next to it. That cavern and wheel would have been built by the army or the Dharma folks who tried to tap into the energy there. But the explosion reset the island time to a point before the cavern with the wheel was carved and long after the well was originally built.

                      • 2 votes
                      #6.2 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:19 PM EDT
                      pinkcap

                      I don't think this is the same well. The Dharma initiative came and built the Orchid station over the well that John fell into. This could be an attempt by early people to find out what was making the compass move, or by someone who was looking for the donkey wheel but realized they were digging in the wrong place so they moved on to another location.

                      • 6 votes
                      #6.3 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:29 PM EDT
                      blackwidow1

                      pinkcap ... I didn't know there was more than one well either so your comments are going to send me on a viewing expedition LOL! ... I remember after Locke fell down the well and broke his leg, he had to move through a tunnel to get to the donkey wheel room, Christian guided him. Maybe the tunnels that run under parts of the island connect the Orchid, the well, the room they stored Jughead in, houses in Dharmaville, etc. An underground network of sorts.

                      • 2 votes
                      #6.4 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:35 PM EDT
                      BlackRock Steve

                      Pinkcap & bw1....

                      I checked Lostpedia to verify my memory...the Orchid station is built over the wheel chamber but not the well....there was originally a tunnel connecting the bottom of the well to the chamber....http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Orchid..."It is likely the collapsed well still exists close to the Orchid in 2007." I can't recall which episode it was, but I swear that we saw that once last season or in season 4 finale, when we saw the Orchid.

                      ...Maybe the tunnels that run under parts of the island connect the Orchid, the well, the room they stored Jughead in, houses in Dharmaville, etc. An underground network of sorts.

                      bw1...me thinks that you forget the Blast Door Map: it depicts a network of tunnels between most of the Dharma stations and other places on the island...was always my theory of how sometimes the Others just "appeared" or disappeared so quickly in the jungle...they were using the tunnel network!!

                      • 3 votes
                      #6.5 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:17 AM EDT
                      pinkcap

                      Very good BRS - that makes sense. I remembered that Ben took an elevator to get down to the bottom level and he caused an explosion to break through to the wall. The well would have to be close to the orchid, because Locke had a broken leg and he could not walk far.

                      • 1 vote
                      #6.6 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:28 AM EDT
                      Sean O 65

                      I think its a different well for a couple of reasons...

                      The orchid well did not have water at the bottom and the torch fell into water and made a sound. Also the orchid station was visble to the well sight from my recollection.

                      Nemesis also said there were others, not that he's a reliable source.

                      So it's probably just Desmonds dungeon, so to speak...

                      • 1 vote
                      #6.7 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:29 AM EDT
                      pinkcap

                      Black Rock Steve

                      I rewatched the scenes from next week and Desmond can be seen from the top of the well. The well John fell down was deeper. I think my original thought is the correct one. Someone dug more than one well looking for the wheel.

                      • 2 votes
                      #6.8 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:22 AM EDT
                      say what??

                      Someone dug more than one well looking for the wheel.

                      NemLocke explained they didn't know what they were looking for, just an answer for why their compass needles went crazy at some locations. So the wheel would have come after they found the special pocket of EM. That's one question I really want answered - who built the wheel and especially HOW they did it.

                      • 2 votes
                      #6.9 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:43 AM EDT
                      parent-43973

                      It is a different well. The well Locke went down to turn the donkey wheel allowed him to stop the time jumps. When he did, those left behind (Sawyer, Juliet, Miles) were stuck in 1977. The well was completely filled in at that point (the rope just went into the ground, with Sawyer tugging on it). Last night, when Nem brought Des to the well, it was 2007. While it is possible that someone redug the well during those 30 years, it is not likely, since Nem referenced it being a hand dug well, and if Dharma or someone else redug it after 1977 they would have used machines. Q.E.D., different well.

                      • 3 votes
                      #6.10 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:19 PM EDT
                      Lori-1673701

                      Parent, yes, but.... Who says the well was not hand dug way back when and then refilled redug many times in many different ways??? That is kind of what I was trying in reply to post 1 & 6.1

                      But then again if there are many wells it could be any one of them....we better find out. LOL

                        #6.11 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:39 PM EDT
                        Reply
                        Inchiki

                        Who doesn't like Hugo? Women! Hugo's mom was pretty funny but where was Cheech? And Hugo's a terrible liar.

                        Lots of great elements in this week's story. Surprise -- did anyone foresee Ilana getting blown up like that? Irony -- looks like Ben and Richard are back on the same team. Humor - anything that Hugo does. Fear -- ignore the boy, ignore the boy (Desmond can see the boy, too!)! Romance -- Kate was happy to see Jack, wasn't she.

                        If it's love that helps one to see the Island, as with Desmond and Hurley, then how does running over Locke help him see the Island? Maybe love isn't the only key to seeing Sideways.

                        Most questions unanswered,

                        • Why did Desmond give himself up to Nemesis so easily?
                        • Why is it a bad idea to blow up the plane? The Island needs the plane.
                        • Who is the little boy that frightens Nemesis? Don’t know but this version is older than the blonde boy with the red (bloody?) arms. My guess from the first time we saw the boy, it's the Island itself. Another thought it's the form that Smoke said he lost, or Jacob took from him.
                        • Why are the Whispers trapped on the Island? They broke one of the rules. Michael called it a crime against the Island. Perhaps, these are people who are alive in the Sideways but are dead in the Island continuum.
                        • Who dug up the well, and why? What significance does it have? These wells are sites of intense EM fields, so they must play into Widmore’s plans.
                        • Why did Nemesis push Desmond down the well? My question is why does Locke consider himself safe from Desmond? Especially after Desmond said he survived the experiment by Widmore.
                        • Why did Jack and Nemesis give each other such a cold stare? Jack knows that Locke (Jeremy Bentham) is dead; he sees the face of his enemy.
                        • Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car? This will allow the Sideways Locke to see the Island.

                        G'nite, y'all.

                        • 1 vote
                        Reply#7 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:53 PM EDT
                        NCL70506

                        I was also surprised that Ilana was killed, and she basically did it to herself. It was ironic also, since she was going on and on about how she has trained all her life to do these things to protect the candidates, then boom! Dr. Artz did the same thing by claiming to know how to handle unstable dynamite, and while demonstrating that, he blew himself up. Irony! I expected Ilana to go down fighting, but I guess it's like Ben said, the Island was done with her. At least she went out with a bang! Ok, bad joke.

                        • 3 votes
                        #7.1 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:30 AM EDT
                        pinkcap

                        NCL - I agree with you on the irony of the situation for both Ilana and Dr. Artz. I was surprised that Ilana went out that way. I thought she would die in action and not by her own carelessness. I was hoping to learn more about her - who she was and how Jacob became a fathere figure to her.

                        • 1 vote
                        #7.2 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:44 AM EDT
                        goodnuf

                        I thought it was rather obvious that Ilana was going to get blown up. The way she was handling it and throwing water bottles on top of it. I think they are going to slowly get rid of all the "extras" on the island. Ben, Miles and Richard are probably next. They are only keeping Frank around to fly the plane or make us think he is going to fly the plane.

                        • 3 votes
                        #7.3 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:56 AM EDT
                        JohnBoy813

                        Once she opened the bag and the camera showed the dynamite leaking badly you knew it was going to blow up. The island was done with her!

                        • 1 vote
                        #7.4 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:17 AM EDT
                        say what??

                        I was surprised that Ilana went out that way. I thought she would die in action and not by her own carelessness.

                        I think she went out exactly as Jacob planned. She said she had prepared all her life for this mission, but Jacob only gave her instructions up to getting the candidates to the temple and after that Ricardus would know what to do. She finished her part of the mission (as planned by Jacob) and then went out in a flash, engulfed in flames just as Jacob's body was.

                        • 3 votes
                        #7.5 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:53 AM EDT
                        NCL70506

                        pinkcap - I would have liked more background information on Ilana also since she was important to Jacob.

                        say what - That is an interesting take on how and when Ilana died the way she did.

                        good nuf - I see what you are saying about slowly getting rid of the extras. But, I have to respectfully disagree on your thought that Richard and Ben are "extras." Richard has been on the Island for centuries and Ben has played a huge part on the Island for many years now. I think they are quite relevant on this show, even if they aren't one of the "original Losties."

                        • 2 votes
                        #7.6 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:56 PM EDT
                        Redchilipepper

                        Finally got to see the show late last night. When we were watching that scene with Illana and the dynamite, I kept telling my husband, she's gonna blow up, She's gonna blow up......I still jumped when it happened. I think not only was the island done with her but that her blowing up was to stop her from blowing up the plane. Which Jack actually said as well. I bet when Richard, Ben and Miles attempt to blow up the plane something stops them. The grenades won't work, or something will malfuntion.

                        • 1 vote
                        #7.7 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:25 PM EDT
                        Reply
                        LockeanMan1

                        Well, everyone may think I'm crazy & maybe just a little obsessed (like Libby!), but I think my Lockean theory is slowly coming to fruition (of course, because I'm Lockean Man). As I've mentioned in several other episode threads this season, I think we're going to see Good Locke (GLocke?) come back to life (yes, that dead corpse that's been used for 3 different seasons' finales). Tonight's episode makes me think this all the more. Hear me out.

                        * We saw Sideways Ben come to twitching Sideways Locke's rescue - exactly opposite of the real world.

                        * We saw Sideways Desmond attempt to kill Sideways Locke...and I think we're going to see Real World Desmond bring Real World Locke back to life. Electromagnetism-style!

                        I think the whole Desmond to FLocke/MIB dealio was part of Widmore's plan that he told Desmondo at the end of last week's episode - that's why he wasn't afraid with MIB at the well. MIB threw him down the well to prob try & hide the evidence, but it's going to backfire on him when the EM forces & Desmond (EM Man) combine to bring Good Locke back to life. I thought this might be a possibility when we saw the EM experiments designed just for Desmond last week. Just like Widmore told Locke (then Jeremy Bentham), Locke needed to be alive for the right side to win the war.

                        That's my story & I'm stickin' to it!

                        One other theory that I hope to see possibly come true - that MIB & Jacob were once brothers and that MIB killed their crazy mama. I believe that boy we saw in the jungle again tonight is Boy Jacob (not to be confused with Boy George - ha!) and he's there to remind MIB that he has to follow the rules in order to try & win the game - no cheating. I still think MIB = Jacob's brother = Esau.

                        I'd love to hear from anyone about my theories! I'm excited & depressed all at the same time about getting close to THE END!

                        • 2 votes
                        Reply#8 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:57 PM EDT
                        Inchiki

                        Interesting theory, eater of fruit. I see it more as the Sideways Locke will battle with MIB for the Island Locke's physical form, effectively like an interdimensional exorcism. If the loss of Jacob forces MIB to remain in Locke's form, what happens if the dominant personality is the real, now Sideways Locke? Remember MIB said that Jacob stole his form . . . maybe something like this happened to the original MIB.

                        To further the Jacob/Esau analogy, Esau and Jacob reconciled after many, many years. Should this be a sign that Jacob will prevail?

                        • 1 vote
                        #8.1 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:18 PM EDT
                        JohnBoy813

                        It is interesting; perhaps Nemesis has never been "stuck" in a body before as he is now due to Jacob's demise. Perhaps that may cause the real Locke to become Lazarus and rise from the grave to do battle.

                          #8.2 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:22 AM EDT
                          Reply
                          Samhill
                        • Why did Desmond give himself up to Nemesis so easily?
                        • It certainly seems that Desmond has a master plan, and is apparently not afraid of anything!
                        • Why is it a bad idea to blow up the plane?
                        • Not sure on this one. I would have to agree that perhaps there's just too much risk in accidentally blowing up candidates in the process.
                        • Who is the little boy that frightens Nemesis?
                        • My first thought last time around was either Jacob or Aaron. He seems to be aging though, or am I wrong? Was it the same actor last time we saw him?
                        • Why are the Whispers trapped on the Island?
                        • I think it's people who harmed others that they shouldn't have harmed. I don't like the idea of the island being their purgatory though if you will. I remember people guessing during Season 1 that the island was purgatory and the producers saying it was not, so I wasn't real thrilled with this explanation for the voices.
                        • Who dug up the well, and why? What significance does it have?
                        • Don't know, and I doubt it matters who did. This is obviously not the donkey wheel well as it appears from the previews that Desmond has to just sit at the bottom of it until someone helps him out.
                        • Why did Nemesis push Desmond down the well?
                        • He did not like the fact that Widmore brought Desmond back and he did not like the fact that Desmond wasn't afraid of him at all. He needed to "get rid of him" but perhaps the rules of not killing them apply to Desmond too, so all he could do was put him down a hole. Perhaps he can eat something and grow big enough to get out.
                        • Why did Jack and Nemesis give each other such a cold stare?
                        • They know that they are enemies. And as Anjillina said, Jack's pissed that this guy is using Locke's body.
                        • Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car?
                        • That was interesting! Not what I expected. What I can't figure out from that is how is it that Desmond in the alt reality seems to just know what to do with each person? After last week, I was thinking that Desmond was going to go have some big sit-down discussion with each of our candidates. Instead, he just seemed to gently push Hurley in the right direction so that he could have his vision as intended. With Locke, it seems he's resorting to the same tactics Charlie used on him...near death experience. Is that just because Locke didn't have a love interest on the island?
                        • I was surprised that they just vaporized Ilana like that! I was thinking that she was being a bit too carefree when she started shoving water bottles in on top of the dynamite. I was going crazy with all the shots of Hurley and his various good deeds. I was desperately trying to read kids shirts, etc. There seemed to be plenty of material for the trivia question this week.

                          • 2 votes
                          Reply#9 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:58 PM EDT
                          Lori-1673701

                          Perhaps he can eat something and grow big enough to get out.

                          LOL...they were playing willy wonka music at the end! Maybe the floating stuff CHARLIE & grandpa ate...

                          • 1 vote
                          #9.1 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:06 PM EDT
                          sweetpeas2ds

                          Thanks Lori! It was driving me nuts trying to figure out where I knew that song from!

                          • 1 vote
                          #9.2 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:28 AM EDT
                          belle42

                          Yeah, they used the REAL Willy Wonka movie stuff too (Gene Wilder Rules!!). To be specific, it is when they are in the paddleboat in the tunnel on the chocolate river.

                          • 3 votes
                          #9.3 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:10 PM EDT
                          speierc

                          They were tripping on something during that paddleboat ride!

                            #9.4 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:29 PM EDT
                            belle42

                            I always DID wonder what they put in that candy in the room...

                            Orange faces...green hair...snozzberries...

                              #9.5 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:32 PM EDT
                              Reply
                              blackwidow1
                              • Why did Desmond give himself up to Nemesis so easily?

                              Like Desmond himself said, he’s got nowhere to run. And he believes that his purpose and/or destiny is ultimately tied up in his dealings with Locke. For good or bad, this is what he must do/where he must be.

                              • Why is it a bad idea to blow up the plane?

                              I think Hurley’s spot on with his assessment, that blowing up the plane is going to make for an angry smoke monster. An angry anybody usually isn’t willing to compromise. (Not saying that there is any real compromise to be had here, but Hurley’s argument is reasonable)

                              • Who is the little boy that frightens Nemesis?

                              Jacob, a younger version of Jacob. Or, for a different twist, a younger version of himself

                              • Why are the Whispers trapped on the Island?

                              Because this is purgatory and the Lost creators have been lying all along about it not being purgatory. Alternatively, the Island timeline was not supposed to happen, therefore the souls/whispers/ghosts were people who died in a non-reality and can’t complete their journey to the afterlife since they weren’t supposed to die in the first place.

                              • Who dug up the well, and why? What significance does it have?

                              MIB dug up the well before he became the smoke monster. He was an explorer who lost his way or a compass maker whose spinning arrow led him to find out why the arrow was spinning. The well is where MIB became the smoke monster, where he was “born” so to speak. Desmond will find the donkey wheel at the bottom of the well and turn it, taking everyone to the sideways timeline.

                              • Why did Nemesis push Desmond down the well?

                              So he could find the donkey wheel and turn it, causing the departure from the island into the sideways timeline. And he knew Desmond wasn’t going to just jump down there so he gave him a little push. I think this is the sacrifice that Widmore was talking about.

                              • Why did Jack and Nemesis give each other such a cold stare?

                              This is the first time that they’ve seen each other since they returned to the island and MIB’s been “cloned” into Locke.

                              • Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car?

                              Desmond’s ticked off that MIB pushed him down the well. If Desmond can influence island reality by what he does in the sideways reality, then injuring Locke in the sideways reality could hurt Locke in the island reality and thus prevent the potential war and impending death on the island.

                              Maybe I’m just in a weird mood but I didn’t really get into this episode much. It was good but not great. Perhaps I’m just not liking that its winding down and the end is nigh.

                              Additional questions that I had while I watched tonight’s episode:

                              • What was in Ilana’s bag that Hurley found that caused him to believe that blowing up the BlackRock was the appropriate course of action?
                              • Why did Ben and Miles go with Richard but no one else did?
                              • Michael? Is he MIB attempting to influence Hurley or really the ghost of Michael?

                              Found the previews for next week to be stellar, using the quote from Willy Wonka when the boat passengers are traveling through the psychedelic tunnel to their next destination:

                              Is it raining? Is it snowing?

                              Is a hurricane a-blowing?

                              Not a speck of light is showing,

                              So the danger must be growing.

                              Are the fires of Hell a-glowing?

                              Is the grisly reaper mowing?

                              Yes, the danger must be growing,

                              For the rowers keep on rowing,

                              And they're certainly not showing,

                              Any signs that they are slowing!

                              • 6 votes
                              #10 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:59 PM EDT
                              pinkcap

                              What was in Ilana’s bag that Hurley found that caused him to believe that blowing up the BlackRock was the appropriate course of action?

                              Black Widow - I believe that was the bag that Ilana put Jacob's ashes into. Maybe Jacob's ashes speak to Hurley.

                              Thanks for the Willy Wonka lyrics. Lori said that they were playing music from the movie at the end of the show. The lyrics do seem appropriate.

                              I questioned who Michael was myself, but I think he is a ghost because of the apology he gave to Hurley about killing Libby. I don't think the MIB would add that. Michael was sorry about killing her and Ana Lucia. That's the reason he tried to kill himself and why he sacrificed his own life on the freighter.

                              • 2 votes
                              #10.1 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:22 PM EDT
                              Lori-1673701

                              I loved willy wonka (watching as an adult I can't believe we could watch it as kids, a lot of adult references among other things...lol). They were playing the original from 1971 with Gene Wilder....

                              • 1 vote
                              #10.2 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:30 PM EDT
                              BlackRock Steve
                              • Who is the little boy that frightens Nemesis?

                              Jacob, a younger version of Jacob. Or, for a different twist, a younger version of himself

                              A couple folks have referenced this but I am surprised by so many saying the young Brown-hairedBoy was Jacob...this scene was a big reveal for me, especially with MIB's reaction (or actually the lack of) to him...for me, it meant that the blond-haired kid in "the Substitute" was in fact JACOB, which is why NemLocke reacted to him so much and the "don't tell me what i can't do!", and this kid was MIB (himself)as the equal age to the blond kid. I also highly agree with Steve that these 2 scenes are all set-up for the flashback episode next month when we see how MIB & Jacob got to the island and supposedly have all the reveals on the "game" and island mythology!!

                              What was in Ilana’s bag that Hurley found....

                              Yes, It was the bag that Illana put JACOB'S ashes in!!

                              • 2 votes
                              #10.3 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:37 PM EDT
                              blackwidow1

                              pinkcap ... Jacob's ashes, duh to me! I'm not thinking with full force tonight apparently.

                              When I first saw and heard Michael speak to Hurley, I thought immediately that this was MIB speaking to Hurley. But you're right about his apology to Libby toward the end. Would MIB do that? I doubt it, but maybe if taking on a human form allowed his humanity to be accessed, it could be MIB (that statement about having his humanity stolen from him keeps sticking with me).

                              • 1 vote
                              #10.4 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:43 PM EDT
                              blackwidow1

                              Steve ... I do believe that the young boy in this episode was the same boy as the one in "The Substitute." I checked IMDB and the actor is credited with playing "Teenage Boy" in both episodes.

                              I'm wondering, and you've touched on it also in your post here and above, if the boy IS MIB as a youngster, before he became the smoke monster ... before he lost his humanity. When we first saw him in "The Substitue" he was telling Locke "you can't kill him" and in this episode, MIB was saying "ignore him" right before he pushed Desmond down the well ... almost like the boy is the moral compass that MIB lost when his humanity was stolen. He's here to serve as a reminder of what MIB shouldn't do ... that there is a different path, the morally right path, to take ... MIB realizes this but chooses to ignore it.

                              • 2 votes
                              #10.5 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:00 AM EDT
                              Inchiki

                              Evening BW1 and BlackRock Steve,

                              The boys are key part of this and mother Eloise will explain in a few episodes.

                              Just wanted to throw this possibility out there. (And forgive me BW1 if the following is a what you're saying in #10.5, I was unclear when some of the "he"s and "him"s were refering to MIB or Jacob.) What if MIB was being literal when he said his form was taken. Perhaps the blonde boy was MIB and the dark-haired was Jacob. As BW1 points out, the blonde boy would also have a moral compass. When Locke was angrily yelling "you can't tell me what to do", he was yelling at himself but a better (good) version, which may account for some of the ferocity. Maybe part of him knows that it was the morally right path that he ignored. Like Lucifer in Paradise Lost, it is better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven.

                              I have only one argument for the dark-haired boy being Jacob. The boy did not speak. Like Ricardus said, Jacob never tells anybody what to do. Knowing that this is Jacob, Smoke/Locke just ignores him.

                              • 1 vote
                              #10.6 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:30 AM EDT
                              BlackRock Steve

                              bw1, in this episode, I agree with your analysis and am firmly convinced the boy tonight is supposed to be MIB as a youth BEFORE Jacob stole his humanity and MIB became Smokey, and is his 'moral compass'. But, I think you're saying that he was also MIB in the Substitute, and I'm not sure I agree just because they used the same actor....they went out of their way to make him look like a "young Jacob" with that bleach blond hair and the kid tonight had very brown hair. I have been thinking that the blond kid had bloodied arms because Jacob killed MIB and stole his identity/humanity when they were young men.

                              • 1 vote
                              #10.7 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:38 AM EDT
                              BlackRock Steve

                              Whoa...Inchiki....I like your analysis and the literal of "he stole my form"!!! And, yes, I agree that in the big mythology episode, (I think it's called: "Across the Sea") is when we'll no doubt have Eloise back on the island as our "guide"!!

                              • 1 vote
                              #10.8 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:46 AM EDT
                              blackwidow1

                              Steve ... You are correct about the boy in "The Substitute" having that real blonde hair and the boy tonight having dark hair. I guess I didn't initially think too much of it since it was the same actor was playing both roles. I see what you are saying and I agree that there is a real strong possibility that one of the boys is young Jacob and one is young MIB.

                              And Inchiki's idea that Jacob stole MIB's form as well as his humanity could very well explain why MIB had the blonde hair as a child (and later why adult Jacob has the blonde hair) ... also Inchi's idea about this boy (young Jacob) not speaking keeps true to his (Jacob's) adult persona of not telling people what to do and sort of reinforces this idea of the boys being two distinct boys.

                              Inchiki - sorry for any confusion with he/him etc. I was referring to MIB not Jacob with all those he's. I knew what I was talking about LOL!

                              Looking ahead to "Across the Sea" why do you think a young Jacob would steal the form/destroy the young MIB? Jealousy maybe over a crazy mother who favored MIB over Jacob? Did MIB kill, as some people mentioned, the mother and Jacob murdered him in an act of anger? Were the two of them perhaps put on the island as punishment until they learned to get along or were sorry for what each of them did? (I keep thinking about a comment that someone posted weeks ago, I think it was lostinventura, about these two characters (Jacob and MIB) acting like petulant children who've been put in their room to "think about what they've done" LOL) Just some things to ponder until we learn the facts.

                              Inchiki ... you mention "mother Eloise" ... are you suggesting that Eloise is the mother of Jacob and MIB? That would prove to be interesting to say the least.

                              • 1 vote
                              #10.9 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:25 AM EDT
                              pinkcap

                              The boy had dry hair when we first saw him, his hair was damp last night. Blond hair looks darker when it is damp or wet. If the credits list him as the same boy and he's dressed as the same boy, then I think he's supposed to be the same boy. I do think it is Jacob - it's the way he chooses to appear to the MIB to get under his skin. The MIB knew Jacob at that age and either something major happened then or Jacob's trying to remind him of a time when they were close.

                              • 1 vote
                              #10.10 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:38 AM EDT
                              Lori-1673701

                              Pinkcap - I'm eith you, I believe it is the same boy also. He appeared younger the first time we seen him and a few years older now. Hair color can change, my 'brotha' had blonde hair until about 9 years old and now is dark brown...

                              • 1 vote
                              #10.11 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:00 AM EDT
                              Kylemmie

                              Quick thought - The back and forth of whether which boy is young Jacob/MIB got me thinking...(Uh-Oh)

                              Going on the assumption that LOST is financially stable enough to be able to afford to hire two teenagers to play the parts of the young Jacob/MIB duo if needed...and the apparent effort put in to make the one boy look enough diff in the episodes to at least foster some confusion as to who it is the younger version of...

                              What if Jacob/MIB were the same person in the far past and we see the result of a split in the adult forms?

                              The ying-yang of a persons soul, as it were. Good vs Evil, Fate vs Freewill - If Jacob represents the freewill aspect - then MIB (as Fate) could say that Jacob stole his humanity if, when splitting apart, MIB was left with only Fate and his humanity was not allowed any freewill anymore.

                              Making Jacob 'pure good' etc. Pure good is easily mistaken for bad when viewed from a perspective that does not see the whole picture. The immediate example that comes to mind is from the Band of Brothers series. When they find the Concentration Camp and eventually have to force the occupants back behind the gates and stop over-feeding them because it is the best way to ultimately keep them alive.

                              Okay - now I'm just brainstorming as I write - no real evidence or hard thought went into this :)

                              Just a spurious 'what if' after reading about the debate as to 'which' man the boy is as a youth.

                              • 2 votes
                              #10.12 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:24 AM EDT
                              goodnuf

                              I like your thinking. I(without a DVR) made the assumption that they were the same boy because they looked so much alike and knowing that lighting(day/night, etc) can make such a difference in how people look. Kinda like the Seinfeld good light/bad light girlfriend.

                                #10.13 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:22 AM EDT
                                Inchiki

                                I'm really diggin' the speculation on the one/two boy(s).

                                Damp hair? And Kylemmie has a good point about the show doing well enough to hire two actors. I think my wild theory still holds that the boy is MIB at some point in time and Jacob at another, if the identity theft is true. Granted, my success rate for accurately predicting anything on this show is abysmal.

                                BW1, my mention of "mother Eloise" was not entirely serious. I really haven't been able to come up with a scenario that would allow Jacob/MIB to be her children without some really freaky time traveling. Your crediting Lostinventura is spot on. I can definitely see some child crying, "You can't tell me what to do" and "I want to go home". Maybe that mysterious boy will say those words at some point.

                                Kylemmie, it would be great if the "same person" speculation is true. I really enjoy the yin/yang theme of the show and this would be especially fitting.

                                • 1 vote
                                #10.14 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:31 AM EDT
                                say what??

                                I don't know who the boy is but one thing about him interested me - his walking stick - and that's because we later saw NemLocke scraping the bark off a stick. The boy's had the bark on it. Is there significance to with/without bark? That the boy and NemLocke have [walking] sticks? Sawyer asked him if it was going to be a spear and Nem replied, "when the time is right it will tell me," so he's not thinking "weapon" right away - maybe it will be more like Eko's stick. Then, to continue the theme, when the Black Rock blew up a huge chunk of mast came crashing down - a really BIG stick (with the bark peeled off!). So am I just barking up the wrong tree or does this mean something?

                                • 3 votes
                                #10.15 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:33 PM EDT
                                parent-43973

                                Having the same actor play both boys does not necessarily mean they are intended to be the same character on the show. If the two boys are supposed to be brothers, having one actor portray both (except for the obviously different hair color) would be very effective.

                                • 2 votes
                                #10.16 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:08 PM EDT
                                pinkcap

                                say what?? I don't know if the stick means anything, but it is an interesting thought. Great observation on the sticks! The only thing that I could think of, and I'm really not sure this is the answer, is that it guides him off the island when the time comes. It's a good thing to keep our eye on.

                                  #10.17 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:54 PM EDT
                                  say what??

                                  Wasn't it Moses' brother Aaron who carried the staff/walking stick that he cast down before pharaoh and it became a serpent? One LOST moment that really stood out for me was when Ben and NemLocke were in the statue to kill Jacob and pissed off Ben said, "...I did as I was told. But when I dared to ask to see you myself, I was told, 'You have to wait. You have to be patient.' But when he asked to see you? He gets marched straight up here as if he was Moses" and at that point the camera switches from Ben to NemLocke who turns to look at Ben with a difficult to read expression on his face - it definitely got his attention.

                                  • 2 votes
                                  #10.18 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:12 PM EDT
                                  Mel-1637154

                                  At first I thought the bag Hurley picked up contained Jacob's ashes but if you listen as he picks it up and looks inside, it sounds like something is in the bag like marbles. Or the diamonds Miles found?

                                  • 1 vote
                                  #10.19 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:23 PM EDT
                                  jograyghost

                                  Did anyone else notice that the boy didn't smile until after MIB turned around. I think he was smiling at Desmond

                                    #10.20 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:48 PM EDT
                                    pinkcap

                                    say what?

                                    I'm not sure if it was Aaron or Moses who put the staff down in front of the pharoah, but it was Moses who used a staff to part the Red Sea.

                                    jograyghost - You're right, he did smile after the MIB turned around. I agree that he could have been smiling at Desmond. I tend to believe this is Jacob and if it is, he could be smiling because everything is going as planned.

                                      #10.21 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:48 PM EDT
                                      lostinventura

                                      bw1: funny you rembered my petulant chldren remark b/c last night I started thinking about it again. I'm not sure we had even seen bloody arm boy before I made that comment, but I certainly feel this week's ep solidified that these two boys need a time out and the island is that (pun intended).

                                      I think we may be missing a simple explanation for the two boys. Couldn't they just be twins, erego using same boy to play both and employ the super high tech special effect of dying one's hair to show they are different. And by twins it could literally mean two boys born from the same womb, or it could mean two forms split from the same person (i.e. good and evil, yin and yang, light and dark, etc.) Also, even if they are one in the same, the blonde boy was probably jacob and the brown haired boy would be MIB after Jacob stole his body.

                                      What I found funny, but probablyway off, is that the boy on this week's episode looked like a young Charles Widmore. if it is, i say... put that in your pipe and smoke it ;-) that would really put my head in spin since I predicted in last week's episode that Eloise is MIB's mother, Locke's Mother, Ben's mother, etc.

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #10.22 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:41 PM EDT
                                      Redchilipepper

                                      Saywhat 10.15. I also find your stick observation intersting. (that sentence reads funny for some reason LOL). Echo carved a walking stick too didn't he? I know my recollection of this probably has no significance at all. Previous episodes just pop in my head sometimes when I am trying to put all of the pieces of this puzzle together.

                                      • 1 vote
                                      #10.23 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:53 PM EDT
                                      OnlyChild

                                      At this point, I don't think they would have MIB carving a stick unless it had some (not too far in the) future significance. Or more significant, he said he didn't know what it would turn out to be - is he going zen or waiting to see how things develop? It's strange.

                                        #10.24 - Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:58 AM EDT
                                        say what??

                                        Maybe NemLocke WILL end up like Moses - and lead his people to the promised land.

                                        • 2 votes
                                        #10.25 - Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:30 AM EDT
                                        Redchilipepper

                                        I was on the fence for a long about about NemLocke being good or evil. But after this week's episode and he pushed Desmond down the well, I am convinced he is bad.

                                          #10.26 - Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:29 PM EDT
                                          Reply
                                          pinkcap

                                          I liked the episode, but it didn't compare to Happily Ever After and Ab Aeterno. I like Hurley episodes because I like the character of Hurley. He seems to be the moral compass of the group. I loved it when he blew up the Black Rock. It was the right thing to do. I like that Jack is trusting him. Hurley always had more common sense than the rest of the group. Lately, they seem more like a team.

                                          Why did Desmond give himself up to Nemesis so easily? I think he's just going by instinct. He has become enlightened and just follows his instincts. Jack and Hurley seem to be doing the same things. They are being guided, but they don't know how or by what.

                                          Why is it a bad idea to blow up the plane?The obvious one is that they can't leave either if the plane blows up. The second is that the MIB can leave by the sub, but Jack and Hurley's group don't know about the sub. The third and most important reason and one that I can't believe Richard hasn't thought of is that the MIB is a stream of smoke. If he could leave the island, he's powerful enough to do so on his own. He would also know of the donkey wheel. Why doesn't Richard know that something else is keeping him on this island and the only way to prevent him from leaving is by keeping the candidates safe? Richard is trying too hard to think about what to do and he's not yet enlightened like Jack, Hurley, and Desmond. I think he has to stop thinking and allow himself to feel and go with his instincts.

                                          Who is the little boy that frightens Nemesis? It has to be Jacob as a young boy. For some reason, the young Jacob bothers him more than the older one does. I think they knew each other when they were both young and it brings up some incident that happened at that age.

                                          Why are the Whispers trapped on the Island?There could be two reasons. One, they are stuck on the island like the MIB and can only be released when he is - or - they are there because of him and can only be released when he is destroyed.

                                          Who dug up the well, and why? What significance does it have? I think the well was dug up by someone looking for the donkey wheel, but it was not the correct location. The donkey wheel is in the orchid station.

                                          Why did Nemesis push Desmond down the well?He was trying to kill Desmond because he knows that Desmond is special. He knows about the hatch and probably knows he survived the explosion. I think Desmond has the power to destroy the MIB.

                                          Why did Jack and Nemesis give each other such a cold stare? I'm not sure. Could it just be that a part of Locke is still alive in the Nemesis and that it is Locke staring at Jack? This would be their first meeting since Locke visited him in the hospital to convince him to return to the island. Locke and Jack have always been on opposite ends when it comes to the island - science vs. faith.

                                          Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car? That's an easy one. He wants John to have a near death experience so that he too can have his island memories. That's what first gave Desmond and Charlie theirs. Desmond seems to be on a mission to have everyone remember their island life.

                                          • Where was Hurley's dad? Is he in Hurley's life in the sideways?
                                          • There was a connect 4 game being played in the mental institute. Hurley used to play this game with his friend Leonard when he was institutionalized.
                                          • In the film at the awards dinner there was someone in a Mr. Cluck's costume. In an earlier episode, Hurley had a dream with Jin and an unknown person in this costume. The person in the costume said "Everything is going to change." After this ceremony, things did start to change for the sideways Hurley.
                                          • Desmond was #42 at Mr. Cluck's.
                                          • Best line - "How do you break the ice with the smoke monster?"
                                          • It was nice to hear Michael apologize for Libby's death.
                                          • 5 votes
                                          Reply#11 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:01 PM EDT
                                          pinkcap

                                          I forgot to add that I loved, loved the scenes between Hurley and Libby. It was like the first date they were never able to experience on the island. It was so heartbreaking that she was killed right before their first date. Hurley deserves a love life. It's scenes like this that make me hope that the sideways world is the one that survives.

                                          • 3 votes
                                          #11.1 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:08 PM EDT
                                          BlackRock Steve

                                          I forgot to add that I loved, loved the scenes between Hurley and Libby....It's scenes like this that make me hope that the sideways world is the one that survives.

                                          SO TRUE, and my sentiments exactly...I loved the picnic date on the beach (finally)!!

                                          ...I like that Jack is trusting him. Hurley always had more common sense than the rest of the group. Lately, they seem more like a team.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #11.2 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:44 PM EDT
                                          NCL70506

                                          pinkcap - I find your theory on the whispers to be quite intriguing, that they are tied to the MIB. In the past we heard the whispers when the Others were near, when the smoke monster was around, and in relation to Walt. I remember thinking in past seasons that the whispers were sometimes creepy, and at other times it seemed like they were trying to communicate something, like a warning. MIB does seem to be linked to the whispers, since they belong to dead people on the Island, and MIB has been able to take on the appearance of dead people. It would be quite interesting to see what happens if the MIB is released or destroyed, if this would somehow free these "spirits" to move on. Someone/something is keeping them there for now.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #11.3 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:45 AM EDT
                                          pinkcap

                                          NCL - I agree with you about the whispers sometimes being creepy and at other times seeming to be helpful. I'm still not sure if the whispers are helpful or dangerous. Are they connected to the smoke monster or are they an opposing force? Sometimes they would precede an apparition and we know the MIB can take the form of a dead person, but which dead people did he take the form of? When Jacob talked about the island being a cork, he said the island was like the bottle of wine with evil spirits circulating. The cork was to keep the evil spirits on the island. He didn't say spirit, he said spirits. The MIB does not like when Jacob brings people to the island because they fight and corrupt. Does the MIB punish the souls of the ones who do wrong by keeping them on the island, or do they keep him on the island, or does he absorb their evil and that's what takes away his humanity? It seems that whenever the writers answer a question, they leave us with more questions.

                                          • 2 votes
                                          #11.4 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:05 AM EDT
                                          JohnBoy813

                                          If I remember correctly (and I may be), we sometimes heard the whispers right before smokey or one of his alter-personas showed up. But right when he did appear the whispers went silent, perhaps they were trying to warn that he was coming and fled when he appeared.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #11.5 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:44 AM EDT
                                          say what??

                                          Another poster suggested the whisperers are failed candidates and I think that could be true. In “Ab Aeterno” Jacob told Richard he brings people to the island “and when they get here, their past doesn’t matter,” and there were many others before the Black Rock and they’re all dead. So the slate of the past is wiped completely clean when Jacob’s candidates come to the island – they get a second chance. Even NemLocke offered Richard a second chance to come with him in “The Substitute” but R refused: “Are you sure about that, Richard? Because people seldom get a second chance...”

                                          In last night’s episode Hurley asked Michael why he should trust the man who murdered Libby and Ana Lucia. M told him, “that [his past island crimes] doesn’t matter right now.” Michael had his second chance and blew it, so now he exists as a whisperer and is trying to save Hurley from that fate: People are listening to Hurley now, their lives are in his hands and he is responsible for the consequences of his decisions. Hurley is still a viable candidate but could jeopardize that if he makes the wrong decision.

                                          Michael's island crime does matter but not right now. He has a chance to atone for what he did by helping Hurley, a chance to be absolved of his sin. The whisperers all got a second chance when they came to the island and blew it, but Jacob thought they had potential when he brought them to the island and maybe he still thinks they're worthy and has given them a third chance to prove it. But it will take an exceptional effort to get out of the penalty box - the whisperers netherworld. Jacob can still prove MIB is wrong.

                                          • 2 votes
                                          #11.6 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:16 PM EDT
                                          pinkcap

                                          say what?

                                          As always, you make some great points. I agree that the whispers all have a second chance when they come to the island and if they die before they can do it, Jacob gives them a third chance.

                                          My thought is, what if the secret to getting out is forgiving yourself? What if the whispers are people like Michael, who feel like they did something so bad that they can't forgive themselves. It's not done for everyone, only those who are good people pushed into doing something bad and because they are good people, this act devastates them. These are the people who can't forgive themselves no matter what good they've done after. They die before they feel they've done enough penance, so they are not at peace when they die. Jacob gives them a chance to help the people on the island until they feel that they have done penance and can forgive themselves. Even though he gave his life for his friends on the freighter, Michael still doesn't feel like he's done enough. Michael was a good person who made a huge mistake because he was desperate to save his son. He wouldn't have killed anyone if he wasn't pushed to his breaking point. Richard had the same experience. He killed a man accidentally and feels such great remorse for it. Jacob gave Richard what he needed, eternal life. When Richard can forgive himself, he can die and rest in peace. Maybe when the whispers feel they've truly helped someone, they can eventuall forgive themselves and get off the island.

                                          • 4 votes
                                          #11.7 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:18 PM EDT
                                          One Miscreant

                                          At one time, I thought the whispers were associated with all the time jumping. It seemed that when Saywer, time traveling, walked up on Kate helping Claire deliver Aaron, they were unaware of or couldn't see him.

                                          Michael's explanation didn't really sell me, but it didn't really blow my theory out of the water either. He could be trapped there in another time. One where he was alive.

                                            #11.8 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:05 PM EDT
                                            NCL70506

                                            Pinkcap - Regarding your 11.4 post: I looked on Lostpedia, and they have credited the MIB with appearing in the guise of Yemi (Eko's brother), Alex, Isabella (on the ship with Richard I assume, and not when she was talking to Hurley), and of course John Locke. I keep thinking about how much MIB dislikes humans and thinks they are inherently evil. He does not want Jacob to bring humans to the Island because they always end up fighting and causing destruction. His immediate reaction to people arriving on the Island is to kill them. He may not like humans, but he certainly used their forms when they were dead to try and persuade other people into doing what he wanted. I don't know if he is keeping the dead/whispers there on the Island or vice versa or neither, but he does have some power over them, since he can appear as some of them. And you may be onto something with the whisper people needing to do penance and to forgive themselves.

                                            I have to wonder - if MIB thinks all humans are evil and corrupted, then (1) why is he complaining so much about Jacob taking his humanity and his form away from him? Maybe he is better off without it, if humans are so bad. And (2) he is evil and corrupted, too! Hello, pot calling kettle!

                                            say what - I really like your thought on the people getting a third chance as whispers. I agree that it would take something really profound for them to be released, or as you so interestingly put it "get out of the penalty box."

                                            Maybe Michael will succeed by helping Hurley make the right decisions and then he can finally forgive himself, and thereby be released.

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #11.9 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:51 PM EDT
                                            scrambledeggs

                                            Regarding the whispers: When Smokey was tearing through the temple, there was a scene when he flew over the pit that Claire and Kate we in, and while the smoke blew overhead I heard what sounded like the screams of many people - but it didn't sound like it was from all the victims being killed - it sounded like the screams were coming from Smokey itself. So, the idea of absorbing souls or encasing spirits is what I've been kicking around since we were given a partial answer on the whispers.

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #11.10 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:31 PM EDT
                                            pinkcap

                                            I have to wonder - if MIB thinks all humans are evil and corrupted, then (1) why is he complaining so much about Jacob taking his humanity and his form away from him? Maybe he is better off without it, if humans are so bad. And (2) he is evil and corrupted, too! Hello, pot calling kettle!

                                            NCL - you have a point. Maybe what upsets the MIB is not that they are bad, but that he's bored because the game always plays out the same each time.

                                            • 1 vote
                                            #11.11 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:59 PM EDT
                                            jje68048

                                            He hit Locke with his car because Locke just through him down a well. Whe Nemesis asked him who he was, Desmond replied John Locke, because he has no knowledge that he is anyone else.

                                              #11.12 - Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:22 PM EDT
                                              Reply
                                              Aqualeo

                                              The Big Questions:

                                              • Why did Desmond give himself up to Nemesis so easily?

                                              I think he is just doing whatever the island has him do until the sideways him can fix everyone else to get back to the island or at least remember it. Only then will he begin his true purpose

                                              • Why is it a bad idea to blow up the plane?

                                              It sounds like they still need to re-enact the flight to get off the island themselves even after they take care of Smokey

                                              • Who is the little boy that frightens Nemesis?

                                              The referee for the island. We will find out later

                                              • Why are the Whispers trapped on the Island?

                                              They are people from the island that have done something bad. Michael shot Libby.

                                              • Who dug up the well, and why? What significance does it have?

                                              Who is not important but what is is the fact that they are on top of the Magnetic pockets

                                              • Why did Nemesis push Desmond down the well?

                                              To control him but what happens to Desmond if he is attacked next to one of these pockets. The preview made it seem that Sayid shot at Desmond in the well

                                              • Why did Jack and Nemesis give each other such a cold stare?

                                              If i'm not mistaken, Jack has never seen the new Locke. I'm unsure if he knew that Smokey was now Locke

                                              • Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car?

                                              This could go one of two ways. First, Desmond could have known that Smokey would become Locke and this is why he is trying to kill him. Or second, and probably the reason, Locke will walk now and realize his island self

                                              A great episode, i've always loved Libby and Hugo

                                              • 2 votes
                                              Reply#12 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:09 PM EDT
                                              ranturn

                                              Though Hugo is one of my favorites, I felt somewhat letdown by this episode. The whole romance between Hugo and Libby seemed rushed to me. I did, however, like Desmond’s new role of matchmaker and how he is making sure all the castaways connect. (Like the Connect 4 game in the rec room at the mental health hospital). And the scene at the beach where he was watching Hugo and Libby having their picnic? He tips his sunglasses, smiles and drives off. So suave, so cool. The yellow school bus to his left indicated where he was headed next…..to John Locke’s school. To run him down. That was an absolute shocker. And poor John seemed liked he was convulsing.

                                              Who would of thought that our Hugo would be “A beacon of culture”, as so eloquently put by Dr. Chang at the dinner honoring Hugo. Three greatest Hurley lines of the evening:

                                              In the dynamite scene: “A warning would have been nice”, says Miles. Hurley quips back, “I did say Run!”

                                              “How do you break the ice with the Smoke Monster?”

                                              The answer Hurley gave the doctor as to why he would make a donation: “The rec room looked kind of gnarly!”

                                              Why did I feel absolutely nothing when Ilana blew up? And those around her certainly didn’t seem too upset over it either. Guess Ben was right when he said the island was done with her. But when Libby appeared at Hurley’s table, I had tears in my eyes.

                                              Minor things I noticed tonight:

                                              The boy in the jungle smiled at Desmond almost as if he recognized him. Could this be Charlie?

                                              Issues with reality – Libby is not the only one experiencing that.

                                              Bizarro alternate universe – Guess that explains the sideways world.

                                              Desmond’s order was order #42. Have we seen his name by this number? I can’t remember.

                                              “You have my word” says the MIB/Locke. Haven’t these people learned anything while on the island? You don’t trust the Man in Black! And his smile at Jack was downright evil.

                                              Minor revelations:

                                              The castaways all have to be together in order to leave the island.

                                              What the whispers actually are: Those who are stuck on the island and can't move on. Where's the Ghost Whisperer when you need her? Miles is obviously NOT helping them!

                                              I like the fact that Jack can now admit that it is hard for him to sit back and have others tell him what to do. Did you catch the smile he gave Kate at Locke’s camp?

                                              • Why did Nemesis push Desmond down the well?

                                              You just Nemesis was going to do that. Perhaps in the well, Desmond will not be able to time travel or be affected by electromagnetivity?

                                            • Why did Jack and Nemesis give each other such a cold stare?
                                            • I think they were sizing one another up and Nemesis knew Jack was afraid. Jack did look frightened and Nemesis had a truly evil smile on his face.

                                            • Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car?
                                            • For some reason, I feel like Desmond knew to do this. But I don't know how he knew. But will this action have any ramifications on island Nemesis?

                                              • 4 votes
                                              Reply#13 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:16 PM EDT
                                              NCL70506

                                              Hurley did have some good lines tonight. I thought Hurley's statement to Miles that "dead people are more reliable than alive people" was quite revealing. I also noticed that he used the word "yell" when referring to how the dead speak to him. I did not particularly notice yelling from Michael or other people in the past, but apparently Hurley noticed.

                                              To answer your question about number 42, it is listed next to the Kwon name (it has not been revealed yet if it's Jin or Sun).

                                              I was shocked also when Desmond ran over Locke in the sideways timeline. He just floored it and ran over Locke with such determination and purpose! So, I agree that Desmond knew or chose to do this, as part of his plan. Desmond is suddenly filled with all kinds of knowledge and has a plan that he intends on seeing through. As others have mentioned, Desmond may have done this to give Locke a near-death experience to remember the Island timeline. But, ouch! What a really rough way to do it. It would be very cool if this injury to Locke would somehow negatively affect Island Nemesis, but that seems complicated. I am split on Desmond's reason for doing this to Locke: (1) if it's to get him to remember the Island timeline or (2) if it's to kill him, hoping to somehow prevent Nemesis from ever getting his loophole accomplished.

                                              • 2 votes
                                              #13.1 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:49 AM EDT
                                              pinkcap

                                              NCL - I thought that Hurley's comment about dead people being more reliable than alive people was revealing. I think it gave credence to Michael actually being the ghost of Michael and not an apparition of the smoke monster. I agree with you - I don't think that the dead people yelled at Hurley, but sometimes there does seem to be an urgency in their voice. Hurley is one of those people who wants everyone to like him. I think even raising your voice slightly would make him think that you were yelling at him. I have three kids. When my oldest was little, all I had to do was talk to him sternly and he would say don't yell at me which would surprise me because I wasn't raising my voice, I was just being very serious.

                                              • 2 votes
                                              #13.2 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:25 AM EDT
                                              sweetpeas2ds

                                              Where's the Ghost Whisperer when you need her?

                                              Did you notice that the doctor at the mental health facility is the same actor who is currently portraying the ghost of the professor who blew himself up and is helping the shadows on Ghost Whisperer?

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #13.3 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:32 AM EDT
                                              JohnBoy813

                                              Pinkcap, I think you are correct about Hurley perceiving that anyone speaking with him in a stern manner is yelling at him. When anyone ‘got in his face’ in previous episodes he tended to shrink away to avoid a confrontation.

                                              • 1 vote
                                              #13.4 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:54 AM EDT
                                              speierc

                                              I agree with you that I had high expectations and it didn't meet them. My biggest problem with the episode was that Hurley listen to Micheal. How could he forgive him so easlily?

                                                #13.5 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:46 PM EDT
                                                Reply
                                                opus_rma

                                                Kudos for Ilana for knowing how to make an exit. And here I was wondering why some unknown would appear at such a late stage in the story and not be affected by war, time travel, or other hardship that all else on the island seemed to suffer. I got my answer!

                                                I really enjoyed this episode. I think it was as much about Desmond as about Hugo. Yes, we got more of Hugo story, but the reveals had as more to do with Desmond. His showing up in each of the sideways O6's lives and suddenly memories come back. And on the island his change of attitude after the Widmore test on him. Reinforces just how important Desmond is and will be.

                                                I thought the immediate connection between loony Libby and sideways Hugo was done really well.

                                                But what I don't understand is why Hugo lied about seeing Jacob. Why didn't he just tell Jack that Michael had told him they need to keep the plane from being blown up? Jack did accept, after all, that Hugo was talking with Jacob. Jack had clearly demonstrated an open mind to Hugo. And maybe the voices (those locked on the island) can only leave in the same manner as Smokey...with someone else taking him off the island. A plane would allow lots of them to be transported off the island. So, maybe Michael's message was more self-serving than true to the island's wishes.

                                                Answers to questions:

                                                * Why did Desmond give himself up to Nemesis so easily?

                                                As a result of the test by Widmore, Desmond saw the future and knows that he won't die at the hands of Nemesis. He knows he has more life left off island, thus, he is not going to die on the island. Whatever happens happens but he still has a future.

                                                * Why is it a bad idea to blow up the plane?

                                                If the plane is blown up, Smokey will kill everyone who remains. But the Oceanic six must leave the island together, just as they arrived, to restore whatever is left that needs to be corrected. Here's hoping they don't need a dead body on that plane to make that correction.

                                                * Who is the little boy that frightens Nemesis?

                                                Name? Not sure. But he was there to remind Nemesis the rules of the game. And that includes that he cannot kill Desmond.

                                                * Why are the Whispers trapped on the Island?

                                                Because they willingly chose to do something bad or wrong to another on the island. Not just that they thought of it. I mean lots of them had bad thoughts, right? But those who acted in a bad way on another get stuck.

                                                * Who dug up the well, and why? What significance does it have?

                                                I am gonna give it to Nemesis here. No need to like on something like this. It was the ancients looking for reasons their compasses would go kablooie. No significance. Just old. And convenient for holding Desmond.

                                                * Why did Nemesis push Desmond down the well?

                                                He needed to get him out of the way, out of whatever is about to happen. However, he could not kill him. He was reminded of that by the little boy's presence.

                                                * Why did Jack and Nemesis give each other such a cold stare?

                                                Isn't it the first time they've seen each other since the Ajira flight? Jack and Hugo were in the forest when Smokey hit the temple. And even though he knows it is not the real Locke, finally encountering him would still be a shock. So, Jack stared in disbelief. But Locke stared back to read Jack's reaction.

                                                * Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car?

                                                Because he has the memories of the island (like Libby did and now Hugo does). All the pain that is to come his way, whether or not sideways Locke yet remembers it, sideways Desmond wanted to be sure to get payback.

                                                I like Inchiki's comment on that last one. Yes, Desmond is making the rounds and maybe his plan is to connect with everyone so that they all develop the memories of the island which, of course, in their timeline never happened. But yet, happened somehow.

                                                • 2 votes
                                                Reply#14 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:38 PM EDT
                                                kcjhawk

                                                We've all been discussing who the boy was, but I like your catch Opus--he was there to remind MIB that he couldn't kill Desmond.

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #14.1 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:30 AM EDT
                                                Inchiki

                                                But the Oceanic six must leave the island together, just as they arrived, to restore whatever is left that needs to be corrected. Here's hoping they don't need a dead body on that plane to make that correction.

                                                Wouldn't it be a blast if a dead body was needed? Irony of all ironies--the body would be MIB/Locke, as they find a way to kill MIB. To those supporters of MIB, it would also be bittersweet, as MIB would (finally finally finally) get off the Island.

                                                • 3 votes
                                                #14.2 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:20 PM EDT
                                                ranturn

                                                To those supporters of MIB, it would also be bittersweet, as MIB would (finally finally finally) get off the Island.

                                                Great thinking Inchiki!

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #14.3 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:32 PM EDT
                                                Reply
                                                Steve Watts

                                                In the pantheon of Lost-coined terms, I think we can add "Arzted" to the list. When it only happened to Arzt, that's one thing. But tonight, Ilana got Arzted.

                                                • 12 votes
                                                Reply#15 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:39 PM EDT
                                                pinkcap

                                                I can't think of a better one.

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #15.1 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:42 PM EDT
                                                BlackRock Steve

                                                Great one, Steve! Love it.

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #15.2 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:52 PM EDT
                                                sweetpeas2ds

                                                Arzted! Nice! Didn't chunks of him fall on everyone when he died too? I had a big ewwwww moment last night when the pieces of Ilana were plopping on the ground. Let me say again....ewwww!

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #15.3 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:35 AM EDT
                                                belle42

                                                Hold still, I think you have a piece of Ilana on you...

                                                • 2 votes
                                                #15.4 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:12 PM EDT
                                                sweetpeas2ds

                                                EEEEEEEEE!!!!!! Get it off!! Get it off!!!!!!

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #15.5 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:17 PM EDT
                                                ranturn

                                                Gives new meaning to the phrase....."Don't rain on my parade!"

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #15.6 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:35 PM EDT
                                                Jekazu

                                                YUCK!

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #15.7 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:32 PM EDT
                                                T Bourlon

                                                So, Ilyana got her Artzed blown off?

                                                  #15.8 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:55 PM EDT
                                                  say what??

                                                  When the going got rough Ilana just went to pieces.

                                                  • 1 vote
                                                  #15.9 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:00 PM EDT
                                                  kcjhawk

                                                  Since she is Russian would that be "Red Rain?"

                                                    #15.10 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:36 AM EDT
                                                    lostinventura

                                                    I'm fortunate to have a work colleague who watches and enjoys Lost as much as we all do. We were talking about Illana's Artzt send off and, as we were giggling our artzes off, we stopped to realize we were sick people b/c we were laughing about her plopping body parts. my collegaue then starts imitating the Losties carrying about their business, trekking through the jungle arguing about which way to go, when one lostie says to another lostie, "oh wait, let me get some of that artzt off of you." grrrross.

                                                      #15.11 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:29 PM EDT
                                                      say what??

                                                      Is there enough for a sandwich? If it was Arzt it would be a manwich, Ilana could be a lady finger.

                                                        #15.12 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:42 PM EDT
                                                        Reply
                                                        Coby

                                                        I loved the chalk board in the rec room at the hospital. The picture of the Island and the little butterfly in the corner. This indicated to me that small changes Des makes in the sideways world ( well if you can call running over a guy in a wheel chair small) will have a massive effect on what happens in the Island reality. The butterfly effect is in full effect.

                                                        • 3 votes
                                                        Reply#16 - Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:59 PM EDT
                                                        pinkcap

                                                        Desmond had three butterfly sutures on his forehead.

                                                        • 4 votes
                                                        #16.1 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:03 AM EDT
                                                        Kylemmie

                                                        ooo - Now that is one example of why I love this community so damn much!!

                                                        Saw the Island drawing but totally missed the butterfly connection. Makes complete sense.

                                                        Thanks Coby!

                                                          #16.2 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:43 AM EDT
                                                          pinkcap

                                                          Butterflies are symbols of rebirth, but they are also symbols of the soul. In greek mythology, Psyche, which means soul, was in love with the god of love, Eros. The symbol for Psyche was the butterfly. I went back to that scene and there were butterflies all over that room.

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #16.3 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:11 AM EDT
                                                          say what??

                                                          Did you notice the red butterfly on the chalk board was about to be eaten by a big fish?

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #16.4 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:46 AM EDT
                                                          pinkcap

                                                          No I didn't catch that, but Desmond had a red shirt on and right now he is acting like cupid in the sideways. Could the fish and butterfly be a forshadowing of Desmond being pushed down the well by the Nemesis?

                                                            #16.5 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:13 AM EDT
                                                            say what??

                                                            In the chalk drawing the butterfly is near the island, probably trying to get to the island and it looks like the fish will prevent that. It could symbolize how precarious Widmore's plan is and how close Nemesis is to succeeding. The fish and butterfly could be like Jonah and the whale, and the well will somehow "spit" Desmond out.

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #16.6 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:06 AM EDT
                                                            pinkcap

                                                            say what?? - I think you're right about it symbolizing the precariousness of Widmore's plan and how close the Nemesis is to succeeding. The butterfly is close to being swallowed by the fish, but its future has not yet been determined. He still has a chance of flying away.

                                                            • 1 vote
                                                            #16.7 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:39 PM EDT
                                                            Reply
                                                            formermormon

                                                            Something else occurred to me in this episode. I had assumed that Hurley made his money in the lottery in both realities, but now I'm thinking that in the sideways world he was a self-made millionaire. First he bought one chicken franchise and then another, etc.

                                                            • 4 votes
                                                            Reply#17 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:38 AM EDT
                                                            T Bourlon

                                                            Well that makes sense, because he won the lottery using the numbers. It seems in THIS reality there were no numbers, because the Island is underwater and therefore can't broadcast any numbers. It said he "acquired" the first one and built his chain of restaurants after that. Hmmmm....

                                                            • 2 votes
                                                            #17.1 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:57 AM EDT
                                                            pinkcap

                                                            On the plane, Hurley said he won the lottery.

                                                              #17.2 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:13 AM EDT
                                                              Santa Rosa Mental Health Institute

                                                              Furthermore, in the Locke flashback-sideways episode, when he encounters Hurley, Randy is mentioned & Hurley acknowlegdes Randy as a douche - so maybe that comes from wanting to buy the 1 Mr. Cluck's he worked for Randy at and deciding to buy the other as well. After all a huge meteor doesn't seem to have wiped one out in sidewaysland.

                                                                #17.3 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:34 PM EDT
                                                                Reply
                                                                Muldy2132
                                                                • Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car?

                                                                I think this was set up to have Locke sent to the hospital to be "fixed" (Spinal Surgeon anyone?)by Jack thus triggering both of their post-crash memories. This idea also coincides well with the awkward/intense staredown between Nemesis and Jack at the end of this episode. I feel that Desmond knew that he could kill two birds with one stone by injuring Locke.

                                                                • 2 votes
                                                                Reply#18 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:52 AM EDT
                                                                Mel-1637154

                                                                Wow, this is scary. I posted almost the exact same thing on an earlier discussion of why Des tried to run over Locke before I read this comment. Great minds think alike!

                                                                  #18.1 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:50 PM EDT
                                                                  Reply
                                                                  sweetpeas2ds

                                                                  SHAME SHAME SHAME ON YOU DESMOND for mowing down Mr. Locke!!!! Though I'm sure that your recent ephipany on the sideways world and everything gives you cause to want him gone, I'm still quite mad at you!! Now let me bend you over my knee and give you a good spanking.....oh, wait...

                                                                  Fantastic episode! Each week just gets better and better! On to the cheers/jeers:

                                                                  Cheers:

                                                                  Ben "I wonder what will happen when the Island is done with us".

                                                                  Without hesitation, Desmond says his son's name is Charlie.

                                                                  The entire Hurley/Libby storyline.

                                                                  BOOM! Buh Bye Ilana (I didn't like her). Though I guess we won't now be finding out anymore about who she is and her relationship to Jacob. Must not be important anymore...

                                                                  More Ben. I've been missing him.

                                                                  Miles dad (I assume he's still his dad in this reality) introducing Hurley....and that was to coolest award statue ever! A dinosaur?? Awesome!

                                                                  Hurely's mom "who doesn't love Hugo? Women!!!"

                                                                  Jeers:

                                                                  Desmond running down Locke in the sideways world.

                                                                  Sayid is reallllyyyyyy creeping me out. I miss the old, infection free Sayid.

                                                                • Why did Desmond give himself up to Nemesis so easily? He knows something we don't.
                                                                • Why is it a bad idea to blow up the plane? I don't know. It seems like a good idea to me.
                                                                • Who is the little boy that frightens Nemesis? I think it's a reflection of Nemesis as a boy!!! Think back to the blonde boy (could have been a young Jacob) and this one could have been a young Nemesis. Makes me envision the two of them sitting around eons ago and one saying to the other "let's play this game and see who wins....." and seeing they boys is a way to remind them of the rules of the game.
                                                                • Why are the Whispers trapped on the Island? They did bad, bad things and like Steve said, failed as candidates.
                                                                • Who dug up the well, and why? What significance does it have? Specifically who? Don't know but it was someone who wanted to discover the secrets of the Island. Significance? Other than a convenient place for Locke to try and off Desmond it proves that people have been trying to find answers to the Island for a long time.
                                                                • Why did Nemesis push Desmond down the well? Des could be his end. He has knowledge and is special and will be the one to take Nem down.
                                                                • Why did Jack and Nemesis give each other such a cold stare? Jack is becoming a man of faith and this ticks off Nem because it will give Jack power. Remember in the Lighthouse Jacob told Hurley Jack would need to stare at the ocean to find out what he needed to do? Jack pretty much told Hurley that he knew he had to stop leading and start listening to others and THAT'S important for team Jacob.
                                                                • Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car? Because he is fully aware of both worlds and knows that Locke is taken over by Nem and is a naughty boy. He's trying to stop the bad from happening while opening our Losties up to the good.
                                                                • Observations/Questions:

                                                                  What was in the bag Hurley found??? I assumed it was the diamonds but now I'm not sure. I thought it was in Ilana's things so that wouldn't make it the diamonds. Also, what book was that?

                                                                  I was a bit confused and Miles reaction to Hurley when Hurley was talking about the dead yelling at him. Was Miles simply being sympathetic or was there more to it? Erg! See, with this show it seems like EVERYTHING can have deeper meaning so it's hard to figure out what's really more important that it seems! I just found it odd that Miles wasn't being his normal snarky self.

                                                                  Editing blooper: When Des was tied to the tree and Locke cut the ropes did anyone else notice that he only cut one strand but they all fell away in one chunk without him cutting the rest (like they were cut from behind) or unwrapping them? But his wrists had to be unwrapped....not important to the storyline but this show is so detail oriented that I love looking for mistakes.

                                                                  • 2 votes
                                                                  Reply#19 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:37 AM EDT
                                                                  Spikegary

                                                                  BOOM! Buh Bye Ilana (I didn't like her). Though I guess we won't now be finding out anymore about who she is and her relationship to Jacob. Must not be important anymore...

                                                                  On the island? Not sure I'd make that assumption! :-)

                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                  #19.1 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:17 AM EDT
                                                                  Bandit-847315

                                                                  sweetpeas, I have to agree with you about the ropes getting cut off, while I was watching that last night it really bugged me. with the effects in the show I do not understand why they would do such a sloppy job of that, I know it is nothing major with the storyline, just irritating.

                                                                  Cheers,

                                                                  Hurley show, one of my favorite people on the show. Des was great as usual, and the new Jack, finally Jack sees the light!

                                                                  Jeers, not enough shows left! Don't want it to end.

                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                  #19.2 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:58 PM EDT
                                                                  kcjhawk

                                                                  Remember when Locke visited Ben when Ben was digging his grave? He made the restraint on Ben loosen, seemingly with his mind. Anyway, maybe he loosened the ropes that way, too and the act of cutting was just for show.

                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                  #19.3 - Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:20 AM EDT
                                                                  Reply
                                                                  Jekazu
                                                                • Why did Desmond give himself up to Nemesis so easily? It's part of his and Widmore's plan, although I was a bit taken back when Nemesis pushed him in the well.
                                                                • Why is it a bad idea to blow up the plane? Because then the rest of them won't have a way to get off the island after Desmond defeats Nemesis if soemthing happens to the sub.
                                                                • Who is the little boy that frightens Nemesis? No idea. Maybe young Nemesis?
                                                                • Why are the Whispers trapped on the Island? It's a kind of purgatory.
                                                                • Who dug up the well, and why? What significance does it have? The same people who built the statue and temple. No idea.
                                                                • Why did Nemesis push Desmond down the well? He thinks he can trap Desmond down there and he's out of the way now.
                                                                • Why did Jack and Nemesis give each other such a cold stare? They were sizing each other up.
                                                                • Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car? It was something he had to do, but it was very disturbing to watch.
                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                  Reply#20 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:02 AM EDT
                                                                  evilgenius
                                                                  • Why did Desmond give himself up to Nemesis so easily?
                                                                    Nemesis can't hurt him and he needs to awaken the Candidates to the Flash Sideways Timeline.
                                                                  • Why is it a bad idea to blow up the plane?
                                                                    There are a bunch of Widmores people over there with guns.
                                                                  • Who is the little boy that frightens Nemesis?
                                                                    The Rule Keeper.
                                                                  • Why are the Whispers trapped on The Island?
                                                                    They have done terrible things that unbalance thier souls.
                                                                  • Who dug up the well, and why? What significance does it have?
                                                                    The Who is less importaint than the Why. Everything points to the EM pockets - Exciting these pockets of EM (remember Zoe's map) will destroy The Island.
                                                                  • Why did Nemesis push Desmond down the well?
                                                                    So he can't awaken the Candidates to the Flash Sideways Timeline.
                                                                  • Why did Jack and Nemesis give each other such a cold stare?
                                                                    Jack looked afraid and Nemesis looked very pleased that Jack was afraid.
                                                                  • Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car?
                                                                    Near death experiance Brotha... Now Locke (awakened to the Original Timeline) will be operated on by Jack and in turn that will trigger Jack's awakening.

                                                                  Cheers: BOOOMMM! - Gotta love it when stuff blows up. Hugo and Libby get thier first date!
                                                                  Jeers: Only a couple of episodes left!

                                                                  • 2 votes
                                                                  Reply#21 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:18 AM EDT
                                                                  JessieAnne19
                                                                • Why did Desmond give himself up to Nemesis so easily? I think after being blasted with EM, he knows what's going to happen. He knows that whatever mission or sacrifice he must do will happen regardless of who tries to stop him.
                                                                • Why is it a bad idea to blow up the plane? Because Michael said so. I think that something will end up going wrong and a lot of the wrong people will die. Like Jack and the rest of the candidates.
                                                                • Who is the little boy that frightens Nemesis? I think it's the same boy as before that told MIB he "can't kill him". I think he was there as a visual reminder that MIB can't kill Desmond. But, I thought it was that he only couldn't kill candidates. Maybe he showed up to tell MIB that whatever he was planning was a bad idea because it would backfire..
                                                                • Why are the Whispers trapped on the Island? I like Steve's idea that it's failed candidates who have died. But, maybe it's anyone who's died that has attempted to do something against the island. I can't remember Michael's exact line, but it sounded like because he murdered two people for his own selfish reason of getting him and Walt off the island, he's now being punished...
                                                                • Who dug up the well, and why? What significance does it have? Not sure who. Maybe one of the much earlier inhabitants as MIB said it was dug by hand. But, MIB said it was dug because compasses were spinning so it sounds like they were just trying to find out why. Not sure it has much significance. MIB just wanted to make a point to Desmond about Widmore before he pushed him down.
                                                                • Why did Nemesis push Desmond down the well? I think MIB knew why Desmond was there. He knows Desmond's special and he knows he was brought back to the island to defeat him. So, he has to get rid of him. Or at least keep him down a well so he can't do anything for a while.
                                                                • Why did Jack and Nemesis give each other such a cold stare? Jack knows he's MIB and hates him for taking Locke's body. MIB probably knows he's the front runner for being Jacob's replacement so he hates him for that. Maybe Jack also realizes that the Smoke Monster used his father's body to mess with his head and he hates him even more for that.
                                                                • Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car? My initial thought was that he was giving Locke his near-death experience so he could "remember" the Island time. But, how can he be sure he won't actually kill him? I'm not so sure how killing Locke in the sideways world will affect Flocke on the island. Because it's not actually Locke it's the smoke monster. Not really sure where I'm going with that...
                                                                • The Willy Wonka song at the end was sooo creepy! I loved it! Thanks for those who posted the actual lines from the movie as I couldnt' remember them exactly.

                                                                  I thought it was interesting that when Desmond was sitting at the school scoping out Locke, and Ben came up to him (BTW, cheers to sideways Ben for looking out for his kids!) and asked if he had any kids and Desmond just spits out that he has a son, Charlie. He didn't seem all that surprised when he said it, like Claire was after she called out Aaron in the hospital. Do you think he saw in the other timeline that he had a son Charlie with Penny? Or did he just say the first name that came to his head, Charlie (Pace), as he's the one who got him started on this mission...

                                                                  • 3 votes
                                                                  Reply#22 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:19 AM EDT
                                                                  Lost in Space and Time 316

                                                                  I loved this episode; nothing better than a person being blown up and thier kibble and bits being scattered on the beach. so gross!

                                                                  The two things that keep going around in my head is when MIB put his hand out and Desmond took it! I was sitting there going to don't take it, don't take it. But now I don't know what that means. Is that why Desmond wasn't afraid, but then why was MIB so surprised that Desmond wasn't afraid if taking his hand would have that affect? So are we to believe there is no significance in taking MIB hand?

                                                                  Then the exchange between MIB and Desmond as they are walking - MIB says to Desmond "if I didn't know better I would say the island has it in for you". Desmond calls him out on what he meant, and then MIB says something lame like "the island has it in for all of us", and then Bam, creepy, not speaking, brown haired boy appears. So now I'm just guessing at (constantly and not getting my work done this morning) about what does MIB actually know is fact (going to happen) and what does he expect is going to happen (based on the how the game has been played before).

                                                                  Part of me agrees with Merlin and others out here to just go along for the ride, but then like BRS, I just can't help myself from analyizing and speculating. It is what makes this all so much fun.

                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                  Reply#23 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:33 AM EDT
                                                                  T Bourlon
                                                                • Why did Desmond give himself up to Nemesis so easily?
                                                                • It's all part of the "plan."

                                                                • Why is it a bad idea to blow up the plane?
                                                                • Jeez, after what happened to Illyana you have to ask?

                                                                • Who is the little boy that frightens Nemesis?
                                                                • I'm beginning to think they are aliens.

                                                                • Why are the Whispers trapped on the Island?
                                                                • Like Michael said, because of the things they did ON the Island.

                                                                • Who dug up the well, and why? What significance does it have?
                                                                • It doesn't matter who, the why was explained. They were looking for the "source." I'm pretty sure UnLocke said there was more than one well. Perhaps every well has a donkey wheel portal, and ONE of them will let UnLocke "go home." So much for my Tunesia theory.

                                                                • Why did Nemesis push Desmond down the well?
                                                                • Again, it's all part of the "plan." Desmond is they key.

                                                                • Why did Jack and Nemesis give each other such a cold stare?
                                                                • They don't like or trust each other.

                                                                • Why did Desmond hit Locke with his car?
                                                                • Maybe because UnLocke threw the other Des in the well? Or maybe it's a way to get all the passengers together in the Hospital, so he can convince them that there's another life out there somewhere.

                                                                  Overall I was disappointed in this episode, even though it's a Hurley episode. If he's so lucky, how come he can't get a date. And this "love" thing is starting to get on my nerves. Hurley could be with Libby NOW, but on the Island she's dead, so how would that other life be better? I think I'm not liking this turn of events.

                                                                  More interesting to me is Darth Sayid saying there was no need to kill anyone else once he found out about Desmond. Could there be some hope for him? That would be awsome if so!

                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                  Reply#24 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:37 AM EDT
                                                                  Bordsox-999133

                                                                  Darth Sayid.....freakin' awesome :-)

                                                                    #24.1 - Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:02 AM EDT
                                                                    Reply
                                                                    Deborah SG

                                                                    Why did Desmond give himself up to Nemesis so easily?

                                                                    Since it seems that Desmond will be the protector of all of them, what happens to Richard? Jacob said he could go to hell; he won't be reunited with Isabella. Does Richard become one of the whisperers? Does he enter Dante's second circle (lovers) in The Inferno? Richard seems destined to be a tragic hero in the true Greek sense.

                                                                    • 1 vote
                                                                    Reply#25 - Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:39 AM EDT
                                                                    Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3
                                                                    Leave a Comment:
                                                                    You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
                                                                    You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
                                                                    (XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
                                                                    Newsvine Privacy Statement
                                                                    As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
                                                                    FUN STUFF:
                                                                    • Leaderboard |
                                                                    • E-Mail Alerts |
                                                                    • Top of the Vine |
                                                                    • Newsvine Live |
                                                                    • Newsvine Archives |
                                                                    • The Greenhouse |
                                                                    COMPANY STUFF:
                                                                    • Code of Honor |
                                                                    • Company Info |
                                                                    • Contact Us |
                                                                    • Jobs |
                                                                    • User Agreement |
                                                                    • Privacy Policy |
                                                                    • About our ads
                                                                    LEGAL STUFF:
                                                                    • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
                                                                    • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
                                                                    • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com