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LOST: Jack Deals with "The Candidate"

Tue May 4, 2010 10:11 PM EDT
entertainment, television, tv, abc, lost, lost-in-the-vines, litv
By Steve Watts

Live Poll

What did you think of tonight's episode?

View Results
  • 96101
    Fantastic
    74%
  • 96102
    Pretty good
    19%
  • 96103
    Mediocre
    5%
  • 96104
    Terrible
    2%

VoteTotal Votes: 333

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Jack chooses to help with the plan to steal away on the sub, but Sawyer's mistrust of Nemesis has dire consequences.


Note: "Lost in the Vines" is made for discussion of the series "Lost" on ABC. As such, here be spoilers! We talk frankly about the events of the night, speculate about future events, and so on. Read no further if you don't want spoilers.

ABC Preview:

Jack must decide whether or not to trust Locke after he is asked to follow through on a difficult task.

The Big Reveal: Sayid, Sun, and Jin have all died in Nemesis' attempt to kill the candidates, and now he's going to finish those remaining; Jack was told he's going to be the one to replace Jacob.

Summary

Jack wakes up Locke in his hospital bed. Locke says he knows him, and Jack explains about how they met in the baggage claim. Locke asks what happened, and Jack tells him about the car accident. He says he got everything back where it belongs. He goes on to tell him he got a look at his spine injury, and wants to know how it happened because he's a candidate for a new surgery they're developing. He says it could restore feeling to his legs or maybe even help him walk again. He offers to fix him. Locke declines. Jack starts to insist, but Locke cuts him off.

Helen comes in and they kiss. He assures her that he's okay, and Jack introduces himself. Helen gives Jack a hug and thanks him for saving Locke.

Jack wakes up in a boat, and Sayid welcomes him to Hydra Island. He says at least he didn't have to paddle.

Seamus leads Sawyer and his people to the cages and tells them to get in. Sawyer refuses and takes Seamus' gun. Widmore threatens Kate with a gun, and goes on to say that he has a list of names. He says Sawyer, Sun, Jin, and Hurley are on it, but Kate isn't, so her fate doesn't matter to him. Sawyer puts the gun down, and he's hit hard and put into the cage with his followers. Widmore tells him he may not believe it, but he's doing this for his own good. Sawyer says he doesn't believe it. Widmore turns to one of his men and asks if the fence is ready yet. He says it will take an hour, but Widmore says they don't have an hour because he's coming.

=================

Bernard works on a denture set, and Jack enters, asking for Dr. Nadler. Bernard and Jack introduce themselves. He says he'd like to get a look at John Locke's patient files, due to emergency oral surgery. He says he'd like to know how Locke was hurt. Bernard asks why he's interested in it, and Jack explains that they met on the flight about a week ago. Bernard says he was on the flight too, Oceanic 815. He says it's weird that they were all on the flight, and Jack agrees. Bernard says when he treated Locke, another man was in the accident with him. Jack asks, he remembers something from three years ago just like that? Bernard says of course he does, and hands him a paper reading "Anthony Cooper." He says he hopes he finds what he's looking for.

Sayid explains to Jack that "Locke" saved him from the mortar fire. He says those that weren't killed scattered, so now it's just the three of them. Nemesis enters and says Jack's friends got captured, and now they need to rescue them. He says he doesn't believe Widmore's intentions are good. If they go now, they can get his people on the plane and leave the Island before Widmore knows what happened. Jack says he's not leaving the Island. Nemesis says he hopes he changes his mind, but the others do want to leave. He says since they just ran away, on his own boat, he needs convincing to trust him. Jack asks why he should trust him. Nemesis says, he could kill them all easily, but instead he wants to save their lives. So will he help?

Kate tells Sawyer that Widmore wouldn't have killed her. Sawyer tells her that the cave with the names written had her name too, but it was crossed out. He tells her that Widmore doesn't need her.

Jin talks to Sun about their daughter, and explains how he saw the pictures from Widmore's camera. She smiles and gives him his wedding ring. He kisses her hand.

The power goes off all over the camp. Widmore's guards run to the cages, and Seamus tells a guard to get a team to the generator. Hurley says they're dead. The Smoke Monster enters and slams Seamus against the bars, killing him. Kate reaches for the key on his belt, and Hurley tells him to hurry before the Smoke Monster comes for them. Jack grabs the key and opens the door. Kate asks what he's doing here, and Jack says he's with "him," motioning towards the Smoke Monster. He tells them to go.

=================

Jack asks Frank how much further to the plane, and he says not far. Kate asks what he's doing, and Jack says he's not getting on the plane. He says he's sorry, but he's not meant to go. Sawyer thanks him. Sayid enters and everyone draws their guns, but Jack tells them he's the one who turned off the generators. They all go together.

Jack talks to a receptionist at a nursing home. Helen enters, asking what he's doing here. Jack explains he's here to see Anthony Cooper about the accident with Mr. Locke. Helen urges him to go, but Jack says he just wants to know what happened. Helen says Locke told her about the operation and doesn't want it. Jack presses her, but she insists he just go. She says he saved Locke's life, and why isn't that enough? Jack says it just isn't.

Helen leads Jack into a room and wheels Anthony Cooper, who appears brain-dead. She says it's John's father.

Nemesis approaches the plane, and walks through bullets fired at him. He kills both guards, and takes a watch from one of them. He enters the plane and looks through some wiring rigged to it. He opens a stow cabin and removes something from it.

The Losties find the plane, and approach it optimistically. They find the dead guards, and Sayid says one of them has a broken neck. Nemesis says he broke it. He says if it's any consolation, he knew he'd kill those men. If he didn't want him getting to the plane, he'd put up a fence. He says Widmore wanted to get them all to the same place at the same time, so he could kill them all at once. He pulls out a package of C4, and says it was rigged to explode with the plane. He says now if they're going to leave the Island, they have to take the submarine. Hurley interrupts, saying Nemesis isn't supposed to leave the Island, due to what Alpert said. Sawyer says to screw Alpert. Sawyer agrees based on his help. Nemesis tells them they'll need everyone. Jack says he'll help but won't go. Nemesis says, fair enough.

Claire apologizes, but Nemesis says it's alright and he understands.

Sawyer tells Jack that he doesn't trust Nemesis, so once they get to the sub, he needs to make sure that thing doesn't get on it. He tells Jack to get the sub into the water, and he'll do the rest.

=================

Jack talks to Mr. Locke, who mumbles in his sleep about pushing the button. He says, "I wish you had believed me." Jack sees Claire in the hall and goes to talk to her. She says she was looking for him and asks if they can talk. Jack gets a candy bar from the machine and apologizes for running out today for an emergency. She says it's alright, and comments on how awkward all of this is. She takes out a box and asks if he knows what it's supposed to mean. He says he has no idea, but he didn't know about her either. He tells her his father was found in an alley outside a bar in Sydney. He says he flew down to get the body, but the airline lost it. She says she just flew in from Sydney, and they notice the odd coincidence again. He offers to look at the box and opens it, hearing a little tone. He says he's sorry and wishes he knew why he wanted her to have it. He asks where she's staying, and offers to let her stay with him. She says they're strangers, but he says they're not strangers, they're family.


Nemesis leads the Losties to the dock with the sub. Sawyer says that no guns on the dock doesn't mean none in the sub. He gives direction to Hurley, and asks Jack if they can have their backs. Sawyer cocks his gun, followed by the rest. They run to the dock and board the sub. Sawyer disarms one of the sub guards and asks where the captain is. Frank knocks out the guard, and Sawyer tells him to fire up the sub. The others start to enter the sub, as Jack and Nemesis watch. As they run to the dock, Nemesis asks if he'll reconsider. He says whoever told him he needed to stay didn't know what they were talking about. Jack says that John Locke told him he needed to stay, and pushes him into the water. Kate is shot by Widmore's guards, and a firefight breaks out. Jack helps Kate into the sub as Nemesis crawls out of the water. Nemesis draws a gun and shoots Widmore's guards.


Jack helps Kate onto the sub and asks for a first aid kit. Sawyer asks who else is up there, and Sayid tells him Claire is still there. Sawyer goes top side and calls for Claire. Nemesis notices him and starts running towards the sub. Sawyer closes the hatch and orders the captain to dive. Nemesis and Claire are left behind. Jack asks what he's doing. Sawyer says he's doing what they came to do, leaving. Claire asks why they're leaving, and Nemesis says to trust him, she doesn't want to be on the sub.


Jack opens up the first aid kit, finding a rigged explosive set to just under 3 minutes. Hurley asks where it came from. Jack says they just did exactly what Nemesis wanted.

=================

Jack says they have to get to the surface. Jin grabs the phone and tells Frank to take them up. Jack says that Nemesis put it in his pack, and he tells Sawyer that he wanted him to shut him out. Sayid says the battery is rigged to the explosives. Sawyer asks Sayid what it's going to be. Sayid talks about disarming the bomb. Jack stops them, and tells them nothing is going to happen. He says nothing is going to happen, because Nemesis can't kill them. He says he wanted them all here in a situation they can't get out of. He says Nemesis can't leave until they're all dead, so what if he's not allowed to kill them? He says he wanted to put them in a situation where they'd kill each other. He assures Sawyer that nothing is going to happen, but Sawyer refuses to believe it, and pulls the wire. It stops for a moment, then speeds up.

Sayid tells Jack to listen carefully. He says there's a well on the main Island, and Desmond is inside. He says Nemesis wants him dead, which means they need him. Jack asks why he's telling him all this, and Sayid says because it's going to be him. He runs off with the bomb, taking it to an isolated area of the sub where it explodes. The sub rocks and emergency lights go off. The sub starts to flood and a door bursts open and hits Frank.

The candidates struggle through the water, as Sun is trapped under a generator. Jin tries to free her and calls for Sawyer's help. Jack tells Hurley to get Kate out of here, and he says he'll take care of everyone else. Hurley says he needs to go after Sayid, and Jack says there is no Sayid. He gives Hurley a tank of oxygen and tells him to swim to the hole. Jack goes to help free Sun.

Hurley struggles through the rising water with Kate. Jin, Sawyer, and Jack pull the generator off of Sun, but a piece of metal still traps her. Sawyer is hit by a piece of metal and passes out. Jack tries to help him. Sun tells Jin to save himself, but he refuses to leave without her. Jin shouts at them to leave. Jack grabs the last tank of oxygen and tells Jin to take it, he can get out without it. Jin says no, he can't. He tells them to go. Jack reluctantly leaves, towing Sawyer behind him.

Inside the sub, Sun tells Jin that he has to go. He refuses, saying he can do this. She begs him to go, but he says he won't leave her. He dives back underwater, struggling with the metal. He comes up for air, and she grabs onto him, and shouts at him to go. He speaks, in Korean, that he won't leave her. He says he'll never leave her again. They say they love each other and kiss as the sub slowly sinks into the water.

=================

A nurse asks if anyone is meeting Mr. Locke. He sees Jin as he passes by, carrying flowers, and says he's good from here. Jack says he's glad he caught him and hasn't had a chance to say goodbye yet. Locke says, well, goodbye, and shakes Jack's hand. Jack reveals that he went to see Locke's father. He says he had to understand why he didn't want the surgery.

Locke says he was in a plane crash. He says he had a private pilot's license for a week and begged his father to be his first official passenger. He says Cooper was terrified of flying but he told his father to trust him. He says they never got off the ground, and he doesn't know what he did wrong, but it's his fault. he says his father will never walk or talk again. Jack tells him that the first time they met, he told Jack that his father was gone. He says it hurt to hear that but he had to. He says Locke's father is gone too, and he can punish himself as much as he wants but that won't bring him back. He says that what happened, happened, but he has to let go. Locke asks what makes him think letting go is so easy. Jack says it's not, and that's why he was hoping that maybe Locke could go first. Locke chuckles and says goodbye. As he wheels away, Jack tells him that he can help him. He says he wishes he believed him. Locke pauses, but exits.

Jack takes Sawyer to the beach, and meets up with Kate and Hurley. Jack says that Sawyer got hit pretty hard, but he's breathing. Kate asks what happened to Jin and Sun. Jack stays silent, and Kate and Hurley start to cry. Jack walks to the beach and cries.

Nemesis says the submarine sunk. Claire shouts that everyone was on it, and asks if they're all dead. Nemesis says, not all of them. He takes his gun, and says he's going to finish what he started.

Cut to LOST

The Big Questions:

  • Why does Nemesis want to kill all of the candidates?

Lost in the Vines Trivia Question:

How much time was left on the bomb when Sawyer pulled the wire?

This Week in Original Articles:

Once again those who write original articles this year will be entered (once per week) in this year's contest. Contributing original articles or being the first to answer the trivia questions are the ways to be entered, so feel free to write!

  • Lost without Lost: What havoc is the series' end wreaking on your life? (kcjhawk)
  • Lost in a Sea of Questions (pinkcap)
  • Why didn't Man in Black (as Locke) kill all the candidates? (Michael Sautter)
  • Celebrate the Final Season with the Smokies (Steve Watts)

Next, on Lost: Across the Sea

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

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  • Public Discussion (377)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2 3
Steve Watts

What a fan-freaking-tastic episode. This one definitely pushed the narrative forward. From here it looks like the remaining candidates (plus Kate and Claire) know they can't trust Nemesis, so we'll finally have battle lines drawn. I do like how Jack realized that Nemesis can't kill them, and that their own actions (Sawyer's hasty wire-pulling) is what caused the problems. I have no doubt that if they had just let the time run down, they would have been fine.

Jack has been slowly realizing his place as the next Jacob, and Sayid's revelation just before his (deservedly hero's) death was a great way of telegraphing it so he understands. Now that Jack is set on the path to find Desmond, we'll have the next Jacob and the one to whom the rules of time don't apply working in tandem. I, for one, am really looking forward to it.

The episode had a nice flash-sideways touch too. Desmond wasn't around to intervene and put people on the right path (at least, not directly), but he's definitely placed everyone in positions that they're starting to realize the odd coincidence of them all being on Oceanic 815.

And Sun and Jin... a fitting end. Obviously they're still alive and happy in the sideways, but giving them that death was a pretty lovely way to close that story.

Also, that preview for next week? It looks like we'll finally get the rumored Nemesis flashback, along with revelations about the identity of the little boy(s).

Pretty short on the Big Questions this week. It was pretty much all forward narrative without a lot of room for ambiguity. If you guys think of some, feel free to ask (and answer) them.

Why does Nemesis want to kill all of the candidates?

I think this has been his plan the whole time. He may want off the Island, but it's the candidates keeping them there. Leaving with them was never the solution: he had to take take them all out. That's why Jack's refusal to go was never a problem. He never intended to leave with them at all, he just wanted to kill them all together so he could leave in some other way.

  • 10 votes
#1 - Tue May 4, 2010 10:18 PM EDT
NCL70506

I have a question or two. Why did Charles Widmore have a List with the names Ford, Reyes, and two Kwons? Why wasn't Shephard on the List, if it's referring to the candidates? Did Widmore really lock them up for their own good? If so, why did he disappear before the smoke monster came and just leave them there?

  • 5 votes
#1.1 - Wed May 5, 2010 4:00 AM EDT
formermormon

Jack wasn't with them right then. I'm assuming that is why Widmore didn't mention him.

  • 4 votes
#1.2 - Wed May 5, 2010 4:03 AM EDT
NCL70506

True, but if I remember right, Widmore said he had only four (4) names on that List = Ford, Reyes, and two Kwons. I will have to go back and check, though.

  • 1 vote
#1.3 - Wed May 5, 2010 4:18 AM EDT
Samhill

I assumed he was referring to the list of 6 candidates, which we knew Kate wasn't on. To me, it wasn't a big deal that he didn't mention Jack or Sayid. Now that Sayid, Jin and Sun are dead, we are left with Jack, Sawyer, and Hurley as our final candidates. I still feel like none of them will live in the end. I think they will figure out a way to finally kill Nemesis and sink the island. They all die in this timeline in the end.

  • 3 votes
#1.4 - Wed May 5, 2010 5:50 AM EDT
dcotts42

Sayid "Artzed" Love it. The best way to leave the show.

  • 5 votes
#1.5 - Wed May 5, 2010 7:03 AM EDT
belle42

I disagree that he 'artzed'. He wasn't saying he knew what he was doing. He sacrificed himself so the others might live. I'd call it more similar to Charlie.

  • 12 votes
#1.6 - Wed May 5, 2010 8:02 AM EDT
Dame Quixote

I am glad Sayid's "evil" didn't overtake him and he did the right thing. Or what appeared to be.

  • 5 votes
#1.7 - Wed May 5, 2010 9:53 AM EDT
JohnBoy813

It was like return of the Jedi when Darth threw the Emperior off the catwalk in order to save Luke. May the force be with you Sayid!

  • 3 votes
#1.8 - Wed May 5, 2010 10:40 AM EDT
Kristine0605

I think it's Widmore's own list, not the list of the candidates. Jacob's list has one Kwon name, not two. Anyway, I don't think its a huge detail. I agree with formermormon who said "Jack wasn't with them right then. I'm assuming that is why Widmore didn't mention him." Widmore was just referring to who he wanted based on who was in front of him.

I was surprised that both Jin and Sun were killed, I really thought they were only going to kill one of them. Although it brings it back to the feeling I've had all along that their daughter is the Kwon on the list. She was conceived on the island, and only conceived because of the island's power, so that especially would add to her being a candidate.

I was honestly hoping that they were going to kill Kate, but of course that's what they wanted us to think. I'm getting sick of the same old Kate, her story line is getting boring. Plus the whiny "I need to save Claire, it's all about Claire" and Claire resenting her for taking care of Aaron is also getting old. Claire disappeared into the forest with her fake dad, it's not like Kate was going to leave a baby behind, they both need to cope, she didn't kidnap him.

  • 2 votes
#1.9 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:14 AM EDT
Susanaree

I do like how Jack realized that Nemesis can't kill them, and that their own actions (Sawyer's hasty wire-pulling) is what caused the problems. I have no doubt that if they had just let the time run down, they would have been fine.

I had a different take on this. I'm thinking Nemesis didn't expect that Jack would open the pack as quickly as he did. It was pure luck that the bomb was found at all, and it would have killed all the candidates, as Nemesis intended. Nemesis wouldn't technically be responsible for killing them, since it was Jack who brought the pack on board the sub, albeit unknowingly.

The only hitch in my gitch with my theory is that Jack can't kill himself - remember that scene in the Black Rock when Richard wanted to blow himself up? Maybe Nemesis doesn't know this about Jack, so he would assume that Jack would not have survived even if he was the one who brought the C-4 on board.

Agree with you otherwise, Steve - a fantastic episode, even with the loss of 4 of our Losties. I was on edge throughout, knowing someone was going, but not knowing who until it actually happened.

  • 2 votes
#1.10 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:39 AM EDT
T Bourlon

"Why did Charles Widmore have a List with the names Ford, Reyes, and two Kwons? Why wasn't Shephard on the List, if it's referring to the candidates?"

I assumed he was only referring to the four who were there, and really came up with 3 out of four candidates, since we didn't know which Kwon he was referring to. But once again, Kate is not a candidate. I think she'll be the next one to die.

Of course, it's also possible that Widmore KNOWS that Jack is THE ONE, and everyone else is a supporting character.

  • 1 vote
#1.11 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:05 PM EDT
mega-246168

At the time, I remember thinking that Nemesis/Locke shot Kate so that Jack would get her into the sub - and he knew Jack would need to open his pack to get the first aid kit. From the recap, I thought Kate got shot before Jack pushed Locke into the water but I could be wrong. Either way, Locke could have shot her from the water before getting out and it may not have been Widmore's people. Obviously, the water didn't have much affect on Locke - unless maybe he can't turn into smoke when he's wet and has to rely on guns.

  • 1 vote
#1.12 - Wed May 5, 2010 1:15 PM EDT
NCL70506

Kristine0605 - I wondered if Widmore had his own List, and your reminder that Jacob's List had only one Kwon name seems to support that theory.

T Bourlon - It crossed my mind too that Widmore may know Jack is The Candidate and that's why he did not mention him. Maybe Jack is off limits for what Widmore has planned for the rest of them.

  • 1 vote
#1.13 - Wed May 5, 2010 1:41 PM EDT
tangojones

1:31 - (ans. to trivia question)

  • 2 votes
#1.14 - Thu May 6, 2010 12:04 AM EDT
Scott (Scoop) Butki

Loved this episode.
Comments from my sister

My comments about Jin and Sun's death are

1. yes, very very tragic but too reminiscent of Titanic (was I the only one hearing the song in my head as their hands separated?)
2. I think it was very untrue to the characters that Sun would let Jin die with her and their child be orphaned. I expected her to say something like, "You must save yourself to raise our daughter(son?)" And Jin would reply, "I will never let her forgot you..."
3. why get rid of them plot-wise? I understand needing to kill of Sayid and Burt Reynolds-like pilot guy wasn't doing anything, but why kill them off?

  • 1 vote
#1.15 - Thu May 6, 2010 11:06 AM EDT
Scott (Scoop) Butki

She asked me to transcribe what Sayid said to Jack so here it is
Here we go

Sayid: "Listen, carefully. There is a well on the main island, a half mile from the camp site. Desmond is inside it. Locke wants him dead, which means you are going to need him. Do you understand me?

Jack: Why are you telling me this?

Sayid: Because it is going to be you, Jack

  • 1 vote
#1.16 - Thu May 6, 2010 11:35 AM EDT
Spikegary

So, is Desmond the new Richard for Jack's Jacob?

  • 1 vote
#1.17 - Thu May 6, 2010 12:37 PM EDT
tangojones

why get rid of them plot-wise?

I have this sneaking suspicion in the back of my mind that due to some time slip or something, an alternate reality will emerge where Sun and Jin (and others) are alive. Maybe it's just wishful thinking - because I hate that they didn't survive. And the only plot device of the entire series that I dislike is black-smoke guy assuming the guise of John Locke. What's the point? It's still not the John Locke character - even if it's the same actor portraying him - and even though it's the occupied body of John Locke. It would've been more interesting to weave a plot where Locke plays the foil to Nemesis and/or the Losties, wherein he maintains his desire to stay on the island, and becomes the source of conflict by attempting to thwart plans to leave the island.

  • 1 vote
#1.18 - Thu May 6, 2010 8:11 PM EDT
Debra Murphy

We just watched the show a second time--fabulous & sad ep at the same time--and I'm relieved that Cuselof has put paid to all this nonsense about Nem really being a misunderstood good guy who just wants to help everyone off the island.

I haven't had time yet to read all THREE HUNDRED comments, but let me throw this one out, in answer to your Big Question: Nem, I think, needs all the Candidates dead, because one of them, without knowing it, already has the sort of powers that Jacob had, and which can keep him trapped on the Island. And if that one dies, then a second Candidate will inherit the Gift, and so on down the line. As long as any one of them is alive, he can't leave. There are no doubt addenda to this Rule, which we'll learn, but I'm guessing that's the gist of it. And my first guess as to which Candidate is Numbero Uno is, as it always has been, Jack.

Secondly, Sawyer has now had his Jughead moment, and I think he's going to have a hard time dealing with the fact that his lack of trust in jack was indirectly responsible for the death of Sayid, Jin & Sun, and maybe Lapidus. (?) I have the feeling that Sawyer, too, like Sayid, is going to have his chance at selfless self-sacrifice, only that we'll see him hooking up with Juliet in the Sideways world.

Thirdly, though I'm not sure I'm "Predicting" it--I suppose it's in the "if I were writing LOST" category--I'd still go with what I mentioned was my first wish for the show way back at the beginning of the season: That somehow the REAL Locke (Sideways Locke, or somehow "buried" inside NEM) will be the key to defeating, or possibly (in the Darth Vadar mode) "redeeming" MIB. Whether that means that Sideways Locke would actually go to the Island and go nose-to-nose with MIB, as I would LOVE to see, or have some "mind meld" thing going on, I'm not sure, but I'm sure I'd like to see something of the sort. And that Jack will be the one to "shepherd" it.

BTW, I'm just loving this "new" jack. He was always one of my least favorite of the main characters, but I'm enjoying his journey.

Oh, and I'm also thinking that Widmore is in cahoots with MIB, or at least "helping" him along--the C4 in the plane was not hidden well, and I don't buy that if he had wanted to prevent a real escape he wouldn't have had a lot more guards at the sub. I don't think he cares about what Smokey does off the Island, as long as he can have what's on it. As I also mentioned last year at some point, I think he may be on a "fountain of youth" kick, as well as a power kick. Either way, I think the New and Improved Ben Linus will have a major role in bringing him down.

That's where my brain is taking me...can't WAIT to find out (I hope) MIB's real name...who/what he really is! Still going for a Jacob/Esau riff....

Oh, and last but not least...WHERE IS CHRISTIAN? I don't buy for a minute that MIB was also Christian, at least not all the time. For one thing, Christian appeared to Jack in the hospital in LA--remember when the smoke alarm went off?--and it's quite clear that Smokey couldn't have done that. I'd still like to see a closure between jack & Christian.

    #1.19 - Fri May 7, 2010 12:39 AM EDT
    speierc

    Yeah... where are Ben and Ricardo?

    • 2 votes
    #1.20 - Fri May 7, 2010 4:09 PM EDT
    Superman2001

    Didn't Ben and Richard go back to the Barracks to get some explosives and blow up the plane? I wondered if maybe they were the ones who put the C4 on the plane, and not Widmore.

    • 1 vote
    #1.21 - Fri May 7, 2010 4:59 PM EDT
    ctina1973

    I don't buy Unlocke as Christian either. How was he in L.A. to talk to Jack? How was he on the freighter to release Michael?

      #1.22 - Mon May 10, 2010 3:33 PM EDT
      Reply
      Anjillina

      Why does Nemesis want to kill all of the candidates? Because he is freaking evil!! You can NEVER trust anything Nemesis does or says. He manipulates everyone. He doesn't care about anyone and never has. He will kill everybody on Earth if he gets a chance! That's why Jacob has had him trapped on the island.

      My big hope at this point is that whatever is supposed to work out, will and the alternate universe that is the current LA will take over.

      Cheers: The mirror interaction between Jack and Locke in LA - where Jack is telling Locke to trust him. Totally reminiscent of everything Locke used to tell him. Also, cheers to Jack's leadership on the sub. He was probably right - if Sawyer hadn't pulled the wires they would have probably been fine.

      Very interesting episode. Although right now I'm just wondering where the heck Ben and Richard are? Lots to think about.

      • 7 votes
      Reply#2 - Tue May 4, 2010 10:20 PM EDT
      Twinkle391

      And where is Miles?

      Another question - why did Sayid lie to Jack telling him after the mortar fire on the beach, everyone scattered and it's just him, Jack and Locke now? Wasn't Ben and Miles with Team Smokey prior to the mortar attack by Widmore? Or did Sayid tell the truth and they don't know where Ben and Miles are?

      • 3 votes
      #2.1 - Wed May 5, 2010 8:15 AM EDT
      Sierramoon

      I thought Ben and Miles were supposed to blow up the plane with Richard "Pretty Eyes" Alpert? Whatever happened to that plan?

      • 4 votes
      #2.2 - Wed May 5, 2010 10:08 AM EDT
      Suzy Q 184

      I was also wondering what happened to Lapidus. Did he make it off the sub and survive or is he another caualty?

      • 3 votes
      #2.3 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:07 AM EDT
      Kristine0605

      I think it was supposed to be up in the air. But he was trapped by a sub door, I don't think he's getting up anytime soon. The door's heavy, plus he knocked his head pretty hard. I honestly think he was just a casual death and the writers just decided not to focus time on his assumed death. I'd be shocked if he was still alive because as much as I enjoy his character, he doesn't really serve a huge storyline purpose.

      • 1 vote
      #2.4 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:25 AM EDT
      mynamewastaken

      Ben, Miles, and Richard left to go to Darmaville to get more explosives after Hurley blew up the Black Rock. They haven't been seen since. I also believe Lapidus died when the door hit him. I was surprised that we didn't see his body, but if he wasn't on the beach, then he should be dead.

      • 3 votes
      #2.5 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:50 AM EDT
      T Bourlon

      I assumed that Ben, Miles & Richard were the ones who planted the explosives on the plane. And it's like UnLocke knew the bomb was there before getting on the plane. My husband and I both wondered what he needed the dead guy's watch for at the time he took it. That must have been the watch that he rigged into the explosive.

      What I now think is that UnLocke doesn't need either a plane or sub to leave the island, but he needs all the potential Jacob replacements DEAD. And when they are all dead, he'll just be able to leave on his own, no vehicles necessary. That's how he knew he didn't kill all the candidates after the sub sank - because he was still there!

      • 8 votes
      #2.6 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:09 PM EDT
      Superman2001

      Lapidus might wash up on shore, seeing as how we didn't actually see his death, but I thought that he died, too. It was his fault. Shoulda got the heck outta the way of the door. He knew it was gonna blow. Dummy.

        #2.7 - Fri May 7, 2010 5:01 PM EDT
        tangojones

        Ok, everybody stop picking on Lapidus. I like the guy.

        • 2 votes
        #2.8 - Fri May 7, 2010 10:44 PM EDT
        Superman2001

        I like him, too. But he shouldn't have stood in front of the door that was getting ready to blow.

        • 2 votes
        #2.9 - Mon May 10, 2010 5:06 PM EDT
        Reply
        NotIntoMyths

        Very nice summary, Steve. The tune on the music box was "Catch a falling star". I think that repeated theme--and its meaning--are an important remaining mysterious question.

        • 2 votes
        Reply#3 - Tue May 4, 2010 10:23 PM EDT
        ranturn

        Thanks for pointing that out. I couldn't catch the song and mentioned it in my post #9.

        • 1 vote
        #3.1 - Tue May 4, 2010 10:42 PM EDT
        blackwidow1

        Several of us have discussed "Catch a falling star" being used in several past episodes. It was the song that Claire asked the potential adoptive parents to sing to her unborn baby and what was played at the end of Sundown. If I remember correctly, it was the song that Christian sang to Claire when she was a child and the song that Kate sang to Aaron.

        Falling stars are what wishes are made on and Eloise's brooch changed from a ouroboros to shooting stars in the different timelines.

        Notintomyths, like you, I do believe its significant.

        • 4 votes
        #3.2 - Wed May 5, 2010 1:09 AM EDT
        pinkcap

        I was thinking about the song and how much it is played on the show. What I don't understand is why they have played it in two episodes this year that have featured death. Could the falling stars be people who die? Never let their memory fade?

        I also thought about other meanings for the title. I did come across an old sci-fi book by John Brunner titled Catch a Falling Star. I wasn't able to find the storyline for it, however I did read a review and the description was "An astronomer discovers that an astroid will hit earth and wipe out civilization. He looks for people to help him.....It only takes one man to make a difference." Someone else said that the book was about the "triumph of the human spirit in the face of apathy." Another reviewer compared it to The Hobbit.

        • 2 votes
        #3.3 - Wed May 5, 2010 9:55 AM EDT
        scrambledeggs

        pinkcap - regarding that song being associated with deaths on the show - several characters have said things like 'when someone dies they're never really gone' or things like that...i've been trying to figure out they mean by this but i just don't know

        • 1 vote
        #3.4 - Wed May 5, 2010 4:10 PM EDT
        pinkcap

        scrambledeggs

        What's frustrating about this is that it should be clear to us at this point, but it's not. To me, the song always seemed a bit upbeat, and yet they use it for shows that feature deaths. What you have said about people dying not really being gone, does fit with the line "never let it fade away."

        The song does come back to Claire and Aaron. Claire wanted the adopted parents to sing it to Aaron, the mobile in the crib played the song, Kate sang the song to Aaron, Claire was in the Temple when smokey attacked it, and she receives a music box with the tune. Do you know that feeling you get when you are trying to remember something and you almost remember it, but just can't do it? That's how I feel about this. It feels like I almost have it, but then....nothing.

        • 1 vote
        #3.5 - Wed May 5, 2010 8:10 PM EDT
        NotIntoMyths

        I completely agree, pinkcap. The tune now inspires the creepiest feelings in me, ever since its use in the horrific carnage at the end of Sundown. So Christian is quite involved in this, too, since he sang the song to Claire and gave her a music box with it. Christian-->Claire-->Aaron-->Eloise are all connected either by the song or its imagery.

        • 1 vote
        #3.6 - Wed May 5, 2010 9:46 PM EDT
        OnlyChild

        I don't know the true significance of the song, but Jack and Claire together looking into the music box mirror -half of his face and half of hers- while the song plays has got to be very significant. Beyond me to say why.

        • 2 votes
        #3.7 - Wed May 5, 2010 10:34 PM EDT
        Reply
        Mr. Petey

        okay, I cried a little...heck, they killed off Captain Frank, Syaid, Sun and Jin in 45 seconds.....Smokey MUST PAY

        • 9 votes
        Reply#4 - Tue May 4, 2010 10:26 PM EDT
        Samhill

        I didn't cry until Hurley did. That really got me.

        • 5 votes
        #4.1 - Wed May 5, 2010 5:52 AM EDT
        Tommy Boy

        That got me as well, Samhill - I was fine until Hurley lost it.

        • 5 votes
        #4.2 - Wed May 5, 2010 7:40 AM EDT
        Kai is Lost!!

        When did Frank die??? I missed that one.......Now I have to watch the episode again!!!

        • 2 votes
        #4.3 - Wed May 5, 2010 7:57 AM EDT
        belle42

        Frank: Aww hell (hit by big-ass door)

        He never made it out, he was unconscious at the very least from that hit.

        • 6 votes
        #4.4 - Wed May 5, 2010 8:03 AM EDT
        goodnuf

        If you want to over-analyze things, Technically we don't know if Frankie died. We saw him get hit by a door and fall into the water, but we never saw his "dead" body. As it stands, the plane is possibly still able to fly and we don't know if the pilot is truly dead. He might still fly the remaining losties off the island.

        • 2 votes
        #4.5 - Wed May 5, 2010 10:04 AM EDT
        JohnBoy813

        The one thing that bothered me was when the bomb started counting down and they asked Frank how long until they surfaced and he said at least 5 minutes. First off they had not been down that long and second if they were 5 minutes from surfacing before the bomb went off and the sub started to sink further rather than rise to the surface after it went off. How could they swim back to the surface from that depth?

        • 5 votes
        #4.6 - Wed May 5, 2010 10:49 AM EDT
        tangojones

        And I've been wondering why smoke-monster Locke didn't dispatch the resistance at the sub, since he did so at Widmore's camp. Why is he being selective?

        • 2 votes
        #4.7 - Thu May 6, 2010 12:12 AM EDT
        say what??

        And I've been wondering why smoke-monster Locke didn't dispatch the resistance at the sub, since he did so at Widmore's camp. Why is he being selective?

        tango, maybe it's because he needed the gunfight at the sub so Kate would be shot, and if he had attacked them as Smokey their attention would have been on him - they would have futilely tried to kill him with guns or tried to run away.

        • 2 votes
        #4.8 - Thu May 6, 2010 6:49 AM EDT
        Kai is Lost!!

        Also, Smokey was "wet" at the time and I think he could not change into smokey! Just a thought! Also did anyone else notice that the stop watch that Flocke took off of the dead guard was used on the bomb. That there tells me that Miles and Ben had planted the bomb, but smokey found it and made the bomb to blow all the potential canidates in the Sub! ((Pardon me if someone already said this).

        • 2 votes
        #4.9 - Thu May 6, 2010 8:43 AM EDT
        Spikegary

        They had emergency oxygen bottles to swim out with, butyou'd think that decompression would be an issue, but this is the island after all.

        • 1 vote
        #4.10 - Thu May 6, 2010 1:09 PM EDT
        tangojones

        They had emergency oxygen bottles to swim out with, butyou'd think that decompression would be an issue, but this is the island after all.

        There has to be some willing suspension of reality in order to move the plot along...lol, but you're right - there have been a few questionable minor inconsistencies that we just have to live with.

        • 1 vote
        #4.11 - Thu May 6, 2010 8:16 PM EDT
        Superman2001

        I think they should have stayed with Hurley on the beach, rather than spending so much time watching Matthew Fox work himself into his cry-face ... again. Hurley's tears were moving. Jack's weren't.

          #4.12 - Fri May 7, 2010 5:03 PM EDT
          Reply
          jen-793050

          Fantastic episode, except for the fact that we lost 4 people. I admit it....I cried, and I was dumbstruck especially killing off Jin and Sun at the same time. I feel cheated on Jin and Sun...we waited so long for them to be reunited, only for them to die in the next episode. NOT FAIR!

          • 6 votes
          Reply#5 - Tue May 4, 2010 10:26 PM EDT
          NCL70506

          I agree, and I totally cried too. This was a lot to absorb in one episode. I am very sad at the loss of Jin and Sun. They have been through so much and were separated for so long, only to die shortly after their reunion. I feel like Jack, Hurley, and Kate - just devastated by the fact that Sun and Jin are dead. The only - and I mean only - thing that makes this bearable is that Jin got to see pictures of their daughter and Sun gave Jin his wedding ring back. They truly did love each other. However, I wonder about their daughter. She will never know her father. Very sad.

          I realize there is the sideways world also, but I am not thinking about that now. What we have been shown the most on this show is the Island world, so what happens there affects me the most right now. And I am rather upset at this turn of events. I know there have been hints at deaths coming, but that still doesn't prepare you to see it actually happening to our beloved characters.

          • 8 votes
          #5.1 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:59 PM EDT
          blackwidow1

          Oh how I cried too. I anticipated one of them going but not both. But don't you think it makes sense. Jin told her they would never be apart again. And he didn't let the separation happen again. His love for her was so great that he was willing to stay with her until the end even though he could have saved himself. OK nae, cry again.

          Out of all the couples on this show, Jin and Sun were most definitely my favorite. I remember telling the BF years ago that it wasn't even necessary to read the subtitles because you could feel everything that was said between the two without knowiing what was actually being said. I felt that again tonight.

          NCL - I know exactly what you mean about knowing what might happen to actually watch it happen. A mind can tell you the logical but the heart feels the reality. What really got to me was when Hurley cried.

          • 4 votes
          #5.2 - Wed May 5, 2010 1:25 AM EDT
          NCL70506

          blackwidow - Good point; a lot of hearts were feeling it tonight. I was already in tears, but watching Kate and Hurley hear the news and sobbing as a result, then Jack going toward the water with tears in his eyes, that really sealed it for me. Glad I had some kleenex nearby. And if Jin and Sun absolutely had to die, I suppose the only way is for them to go together. I couldn't see another separation at this stage of the game.

          I guess we will never know which one - Sun or Jin - was the actual candidate.

          And I guess the Island was done with them? That confuses me a little bit with the free will vs. fate, being a candidate, or if it's just your time to go. It appears that the Island was done with Sun since she was trapped in the sub, but what about Jin? He made a choice to stay in the sinking sub with Sun, knowing he would die - so I wonder if the Island was done with him too, or if it was his free will that let him die. I remember characters in the past (Michael) that tried to kill themselves but couldn't because the Island was not done with them yet. I am just curious, but we may never know the answer.

          • 2 votes
          #5.3 - Wed May 5, 2010 2:48 AM EDT
          JustinPM

          I guess we will never know which one - Sun or Jin - was the actual candidate.

          What if their child was the candidate?

          • 3 votes
          #5.4 - Wed May 5, 2010 5:37 AM EDT
          Tommy Boy

          Justin, I think that the two of them dying is proof-positive that their daughter is the "Kwon" candidate in question. Which is why Jacob visited them at their wedding. To reinforce how important the product of their love (their child) was/is/will be.

          • 2 votes
          #5.5 - Wed May 5, 2010 7:44 AM EDT
          say what??

          If it's true the candidates must all be dead before MIB can leave and Ji Yeon IS the Kwon candidate, then MIB has a really big problem. He would have to have an off-island surrogate kill her or bring her to the island to be killed. Maybe Widmore has another surprise ...

          Widmore's continuing "loosey goosey" operation (NO security - it's like he's purposely letting things happen: Sayid just walks in and disables the generator that powers the fences that keep Smokey out, minimally guarded plane and sub) makes me think he is working with MIB. Such laxity just doesn't make sense for such an important mission ("if that thing ever leaves, everything we know and love will just cease to be"). So he's either working with MIB or leading him into a trap by making things too easy. At one point John Locke said he was a Webelo cub scout - I think a group of Webelos would do a better job securing things than Widmore. I am very eager to see how Widmore's "plan" plays out.

          • 5 votes
          #5.6 - Wed May 5, 2010 8:21 AM EDT
          Jekazu

          I agree, and I totally cried too. This was a lot to absorb in one episode. I am very sad at the loss of Jin and Sun. They have been through so much and were separated for so long, only to die shortly after their reunion. I feel like Jack, Hurley, and Kate - just devastated by the fact that Sun and Jin are dead. The only - and I mean only - thing that makes this bearable is that Jin got to see pictures of their daughter and Sun gave Jin his wedding ring back. They truly did love each other. However, I wonder about their daughter. She will never know her father. Very sad.

          Ditto to everything you said. I was crying so hard when I realized Sun and Jin were going to die that my hubby came into the livingroom to console me. I feel very cheated.

          • 1 vote
          #5.7 - Wed May 5, 2010 9:10 AM EDT
          Pfemm

          @NCL

          I guess we will never know which one - Sun or Jin - was the actual candidate.

          And I guess the Island was done with them? It appears that the Island was done with Sun since she was trapped in the sub, but what about Jin? He made a choice to stay in the sinking sub with Sun, knowing he would die - so I wonder if the Island was done with him too, or if it was his free will that let him die. I remember characters in the past (Michael) that tried to kill themselves but couldn't because the Island was not done with them yet. I am just curious, but we may never know the answer.

          I think they were both candidates. I'm pretty sure that Widmore said "Both Kwons"

          Sun gets stuck in the deathtrap after Sayid proclaims that Jack is IT. So to me that means that the island was done with them.

          If their only purpose on the island was the possiblility of getting Jacob's Job and the job gets filled. No more purpose. No more protection...

          Which makes me wonder about the others. Hurley... Sawyer... Did they loose their get outta jail free cards?

          If Jack is really IT... does that mean that Flocke can kill them now?

          Also... I completely balled my eyes out when i realized Sun and Jin were going to die. By far two of my most favorite characters on the show. I loved how much their characters evolved over the last 6 years... They really were some of the best developed characters imho.

          And then cryed more seeing Hurley well up....

          Awesome Awesome Episode.... I feel like I need to watch it again very soon just to process it a little better.

          • 3 votes
          #5.8 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:29 AM EDT
          T Bourlon

          I was screaming "THIS EPISODE SUCKS!!!" Even though I voted it as Pretty Good. I KNEW Sayid didn't kill Des, he's some kind of key but not the ONE. Maybe Jack is the ONE because he finally figured it out before everyone else did. So yeah, maybe UnLocke can kill the rest of them. BUT he was told he couldn't kill Richard, so maybe by being determined to kill the rest of them he'll finally break some rule that will doom him. Guess we'll find out next week.

          And I agree with the poster above that baby Kwon is probably the candidate Kwon - safely OFF the Island. Possibly UnLocke doesn't know about her, and all his efforts will be for nothing. We'll see.

          • 1 vote
          #5.9 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:15 PM EDT
          NCL70506

          Pfemm - You bring up a very interesting point. Once The Candidate is chosen (I agree that it's Jack) does that remove all protection and purpose for the rest of those that were possible candidates? I hope not, because it looks like Flocke is coming after them with a vengeance, and I don't know if I can handle seeing Hurley and Sawyer killed so soon after Sun and Jin. I wonder if Jack is The Candidate now, or if he needs to go through some process to become The One. By the way, I think Widmore was looking at a his own list or a different list; several episodes ago we learned from Jacob's list that there was only one Kwon that was a candidate, but did not know which one it was.

          • 2 votes
          #5.10 - Wed May 5, 2010 6:02 PM EDT
          Pfemm

          I don't know if I can handle seeing Hurley and Sawyer killed so soon after Sun and Jin

          I completely agree!

          Although I've had a feeling since the whole sideways timeline started that they all (minus Jack possibly) are going to die before the end. Just breaking hearts right and left, these writers.

          I hope at least that no one else dies next week... give us a bit of time to recover. :)

          By the way, I think Widmore was looking at a his own list

          Ah... So maybe he had the candidate list and, like us, whoever made it didn't know which Kwon to keep either so they just listed both...

          • 1 vote
          #5.11 - Thu May 6, 2010 9:17 AM EDT
          tangojones

          In a previous post I mentioned that I believe everyone will end up very much alive...but if they kill off too many main characters, then I'm gonna be pissed.

          • 1 vote
          #5.12 - Thu May 6, 2010 8:20 PM EDT
          Reply
          Herbcules74

          Wow.......I'm in a state of shock. I knew that we were going to lose some characters before the end but four in one episode!!!! Well first of all it looks like some of us were right a few weeks ago when we theorized that Nemesis just wanted to get them all together to kill them all at once. Which brings me to Steve's question:

          Why does Nemesis want to kill all of the candidates?

          So he can finally get off the Island. I think that as long as there is someone there to take Jacob's place, Nemesis is trapped there. And it looks like Jack is the one after all....at least according to Sayid.

          CHEERS:

          Someone shot Kate....LOL

          Sayid turned back from the darkside before he sacrificed himself. Just like in return of the Jedi when Vader turns on the Emporer to save Luke.

          Desmond is still alive.

          Jeers: They finally bring Sun and Jin back together for one episode....and then they kill them!

          They killed off Frank.......I'm going to miss his witty lines.

          We haven't seen Ben, Miles, or Richard in 2 episodes.

          Lots of answers from this episode. Now we know that Kate's name was on the cave wall even though we didn't see it. We know why Locke is in a wheelchair in the sideways world. I found it interesting in the sideways world that Jack called Locke a "candidate"

          I'm sure there's a lot more that I want to say but my head is still spinning form the carnage.......

          • 2 votes
          Reply#6 - Tue May 4, 2010 10:27 PM EDT
          Pfemm

          Someone shot Kate....LOL

          I thought that was a total TEASE! lol

          they're playing with us.

          I thought she got shot in the heart at first... then i realized that it was just the shoulder..... :)

          • 2 votes
          #6.1 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:42 AM EDT
          T Bourlon

          Kate still might die, they have no way of treating the wound and apparently no way off the Island. Did anyone notice that Hydra was in the daylight and the main Island was in the dark? Still got that time shift thing working.

          I suspected that Sayid was coming out of it when he didn't kill Zoe. He told UnLocke that there was no reason to kill her once he got Des. Maybe UnLocke only has power over you while he's talking, and the power fades as you spend time away from him. Or maybe there was still some good in Sayid, that he was able to turn around for the sake of his friends. "There is no Sayid," yeah he'll probably stay dead this time. Bummer.

            #6.2 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:19 PM EDT
            AshleyKeen

            Someone shot Kate....LOL

            *snerk*
            Highlight of the episode, to be sure!

              #6.3 - Thu May 6, 2010 1:47 PM EDT
              Reply
              Herbcules74

              Did anyone find it odd that in scene in the hospital with Jack and Claire that they made a point of showing their reflections in the mirror of the music box. I went back to that scene a few times looking for anything out of the ordinary. I didn't find anything yet.....just thought it was odd.

              • 1 vote
              Reply#7 - Tue May 4, 2010 10:33 PM EDT
              scrambledeggs

              Herb - I paused there, too. It was the same thought I had when alt-Jack was looking at himself in his apartment mirror - I wondered who might have been looking back in. It used to be Jacob, so is it someone else now?

                #7.1 - Tue May 4, 2010 10:45 PM EDT
                NCL70506

                Have we seen this music box before? I don't seem to remember it. I wonder if there is any significance to it, other than their reflections. The timing of when they open it up and look at it is interesting - after Jack realizes that Claire was on Oceanic flight 815. And the song it plays, Catch A Falling Star, has always been associated with Claire.

                I thought it was very sweet and touching when Jack tells Claire they are family and invites her to stay with him.

                It looks like alt-Jack likes Apollo bars too!

                • 1 vote
                #7.2 - Wed May 5, 2010 3:12 AM EDT
                Reply
                scrambledeggs

                Only one big question?! What about what is the significance when someone has died in one timeline but not the other? How about what will Jack do in the alternate timeline with his emerging knowledge that these people from his last flight have intersecting lives? What will alt-Locke do after he's glimpsed his island self while unconcious? And if we didn't actually see Sayid die could he still be alive? Did they have to kill off 3 of our favorite characters and leave us with post traumatic stress disorder?!?!

                Nemesis must need all the candidates dead in order to get off the island. Maybe their presence itself is his cork. He tried to get them all together to kill them at once, maybe to save time. He's speeded up his plan (if he had one) because Widmore's offensive measures made him nervous. Flocke talked about saving those he chose, but he didn't save them at all. He just used them. So is all the talk about saving or choosing just bull****?? Is all the spiritual and mythological out the window now? Now that my shock is wearing off, I'm getting a little pissed that both Kwons have been killed off! We were lead to believe that the 4 letter word hint to the island secrets was CORK, then it was LOVE, but now after reconnecting in their true love, the Kwons are dead. My new word for the island is HOPE - a new feeling of a lack of it. I wanted to just cry on the beach myself because after watching all these people try to do their best, they've been pecked off like sheep to slaughter, and nobody really knows why! So Hurley and Kate are reduced to sobs, Jack is looking up to get answers and nobody was giving any. Widmore is a schmuck but his motives are confusing. MIB is confirmed as an SOB, so I don't want to hear any more about how he may not be so bad...and I'm not done venting yet......how about where the heck is Jacob the (non)answer/leader/guider man now?!

                • 8 votes
                Reply#8 - Tue May 4, 2010 10:35 PM EDT
                pinkcap

                scrambledeggs - cork is what the purpose of the island is. It's a cork to hold evil spirits from escaping into the world. Love is what the series is supposed to be about.

                I heard a podcast interview of the producers and they said that there are people who are dead in the island world, but alive in the sideways world. What we should be asking is what happens if you die in the sideways world. Since that hasn't happened yet, I have no idea. It does lead me to believe that if you are alive in the sideways and the worlds converge, then you will be ok. I do think the worlds will converge. It's the only hope we have of Sun and Jin living happily ever after.

                • 2 votes
                #8.1 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:09 PM EDT
                T Bourlon

                But here's what I don't understand - Nemesis/UnLocke could have let them all go on the plane, knowing it was rigged to blow up, but he didn't. Why? I guess it's because Jack told him he wasn't leaving. Then what, he stole Widmore's idea? And I think he MUST have know about the explosives, because he took that dead guy's watch and used it in his sub-bomb. I mean, he took it before he got on the plane, which I thought was odd. And I guess Widmore's people built that convenient ramp for the Losties, then put guards in front of it? That's so wierd!

                • 1 vote
                #8.2 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:26 PM EDT
                pinkcap

                I think the answer is as simple as he first seleceted the plane because it was the only mode of transportation available that could take them off the island in an enclosed space. When Widmore came to the island on the sub, the MIB realized that the sub would be a better choice because when the bomb was discovered, they could throw it off a plane, but not a sub.

                  #8.3 - Wed May 5, 2010 1:00 PM EDT
                  NCL70506

                  pinkcap - This is starting to make sense to me now thanks in part to your explanation, because I had some of the same questions posted below that T Bourlon mentioned above. It certainly looks possible that MIB had set up the bomb on the plane and then changed his mind to get it on the sub.

                  I wonder why the sub bomb stopped for a few seconds after Sawyer pulled a wire, then started again, and the countdown was faster. I guess it could be something technical, or it could be MIB's demented idea of giving them hope for a few seconds but then basically saying "screw you" and I won in the end. But, he has not won yet thanks to Jack.

                  • 1 vote
                  #8.4 - Wed May 5, 2010 6:43 PM EDT
                  OnlyChild

                  I don't think MIB planted the bomb on the plane. Either somebody did it for him or someone put the bomb there even before Widmore arrived in the sub. The plane sat there for quite a while after it crashed. Ilana's group to keep MIB from leaving? After they found John Locke's body? It was a fairly sloppy and hurried job of hiding. MIB seemed kind of bemused about the obvious wires.

                    #8.5 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:24 PM EDT
                    Kai is Lost!!

                    I personally feel that Miles, Ben et al had put the bomb on the plane and then Flocke found it and rigged it (same stop watch that he took off the guards arm) to the bomb. He could not have put it on the plane. He knew that Jack would not get on the plane so he manipulated the situation so all the "potential canidates" would get on the sub and he would have them panic and kill themselves (thanks Sawyer---you should have trusted Jack....lol) bc he can't kill them.

                    • 1 vote
                    #8.6 - Thu May 6, 2010 8:56 AM EDT
                    Reply
                    ranturn

                    What was the song playing on Claire's music box? I wonder if there is any significance to it.

                    I am completed blown away by this episode and I am now in mourning. Two of our beloved characters have died and the whole underwater scene just reminded me of Titanic. And Sun and Jin holding hands and then letting go........just like Rose did in the Titanic with Leonardo DiCaprio's character (I cannot remember his name). And Sayid........despite his earlier zombie state, he really came through for them. As we all thought he would.

                    I agree with Angiilina that Nemesis is freaking evil. But I will give him credit for creating some pretty intense scenes tonight, including how simple it is for him to break someone's neck. The guy can really kick ass. And what a surprise that he switched backpacks with Jack!

                    He never intended to leave with them at all, he just wanted to kill them all together so he could leave in some other way.

                    I like how you worded that Steve. So how can he leave? I am curious to hear what everyone will say about that.

                    I did notice a slight inconsistency aboard the sub. Jack asked Hurley to go find a First Aid Kit and he came back saying he couldn't find one or something like that. But in a subsequent scene with Frank, there is a First Aid Kit clearly on the shelf. Thought that was kind of strange.

                    I was surprised though to hear that Desmond is still in the well. I thought Sayid had helped him get out. I suppose that is up to Jack now.

                    Loved this episode. Surely missed not having Lost last week. Tuesday nights are going to feel very strange soon. Back to mourning.........

                    • 2 votes
                    #9 - Tue May 4, 2010 10:41 PM EDT
                    pinkcap

                    ranturn

                    Two of our beloved characters have died and the whole underwater scene just reminded me of Titanic. I was thinking the same thing while I was watching it. It was just as tragic too.

                    • 1 vote
                    #9.1 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:12 PM EDT
                    Inchiki

                    The "Catch a Falling Star" thing is bothering me all to h*ll. It may not mean anything but I find it extremely odd that it was the accompaniment to when Smoke was cleansing the temple. What, if any, relation does Christian have to MIB and Jacob?

                    • 1 vote
                    #9.2 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:29 PM EDT
                    formermormon

                    The song was "catch a falling star" which has become Claire's theme song. The character in Titanic was Jack...hmmm. And in that scene, I will admit to turning to my daughter and saying "I'll never let go". I held back the tears until Hurley started crying though. The episode in 2 weeks, entitled "what they died for" had better be good, right?

                    Another great episode, as usual.

                    One thing I wanted to mention, Steve. When Sawyer told Jack to "get it into the water" and he would do the rest, I felt that he was referring to the smoke monster and not the sub.

                    The idea of the characters in Titanic being Jack and Rose reminded me of something. As I finished the last chapter of the last Harry Potter book a few of years ago and learned that Ron and Hermione's kids were named Rose and Hugo, I remember thinking that JK Rowling might just be a fan of Lost, too. :) and as I finished that book I had a similar feeling to the one I am getting now...the end of such a wonderful story. I wasn't ready for it to be over yet and I was going to miss it so much.

                    • 3 votes
                    #9.3 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:50 PM EDT
                    pinkcap

                    One thing I wanted to mention, Steve. When Sawyer told Jack to "get it into the water" and he would do the rest, I felt that he was referring to the smoke monster and not the sub.

                    formermormon - I thought he meant the sub, but you're right, he could be talking abou the smoke monster. Very good observation. I'm going to watch that scene again. Sawyer could be under the impression that the smoke monster can't get wet. I know I have that impression, but tonight he did survive being thrown into the water, unless Locke's body protects him from the water.

                    • 2 votes
                    #9.4 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:59 PM EDT
                    NCL70506

                    formermormon and pinkcap - I definitely thought Sawyer was referring to the smoke monster. I take notes during the show, and this is what I have: Sawyer tells Jack that he needs a favor; he does not trust that “thing” and wants his help to stop it from boarding the sub. Jack says ok, but how? Sawyer says just get "him" in the water, and I’ll do the rest.

                    I remember there was discussion here about the smoke monster not being able to cross over or go in the water. Previously, Sawyer even asked the smoke monster why he did not just fly over to Hydra Island, and the monster replied he would have done that already if he could. I thought that led Sawyer to believe that the smoke monster could not survive or would be injured by water, and that's why he told Jack to get him in the water. Unfortunately, it looks like water does not affect the smoke monster. And I was really hoping it would, but I guess that's too easy.

                    • 7 votes
                    #9.5 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:21 AM EDT
                    pinkcap

                    NCL

                    Thanks for the breakdown of the scene.

                    I don't think a stream of smoke can get wet and I doubt if it could swim. The MIB may have protection from the water in Locke's body - like a scuba suit. I always thought he was killed in the sideways world when the island sank because we don't see people ceasing to exist in that world.

                    • 1 vote
                    #9.6 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:29 AM EDT
                    NCL70506

                    pinkcap - I hope the Smoke Monster/MIB gets killed in every world!! I am so upset with him after tonight's episode.

                      #9.7 - Wed May 5, 2010 1:00 AM EDT
                      blackwidow1

                      NCL's recap of what Sawyer said is exactly right. We replayed that scene several times during the commercial with the sound turned way up (let me say ... the weather here is nice ... the windows are wide open ... I'm sure the neighbors love us!) and Sawyer did say "get him in the water" and like someone already said, I thought Locke would melt like the witch in the Wizard of Oz. I like the idea of Locke's body being a scuba suit! Too good!

                      We've been focused on the plane and the sub as means to escape for MIB. But I sincerely doubt that either one of these methods have ever been an option for him and I think he's always known that. He knew all the candidates didn't die because whatever he expected to happen to release him from his bonds didn't happen. But then, what does he expect to happen? How will he be able to finally go home?

                      • 7 votes
                      #9.8 - Wed May 5, 2010 1:43 AM EDT
                      goodnuf

                      blackwidow - I've been trying to figure out how Flocke knows things but your comments about him expecting something to happen to himself when they all die and the fact that nothing happened makes a lot of sense. He could "sense" that he wasn't free.

                      • 3 votes
                      #9.9 - Wed May 5, 2010 10:18 AM EDT
                      lostin2009

                      He knew all the candidates didn't die because whatever he expected to happen to release him from his bonds didn't happen.

                      Good point, i was thinking how could he feel or know what happened. I think you are right, he was standing there waiting for release and came to the realization that his plan did not work.

                      • 1 vote
                      #9.10 - Wed May 5, 2010 10:34 AM EDT
                      Kylemmie

                      On the subject of 'get him in the water..' - I'm wondering if Flocke maybe couldn't switch to Smokie mode while dripping wet. Water and Electricity don't mix well and I always get the impression of electrical fields when I see/hear Smokie.(or fields of some kind - I'm an Acct, so I'm waaaay out of my league on this stuff, hehe)

                      Flocke looked VERY angry when he started shooting back at Widmore's goons at the sub scene...although we now know that to all be an act since he expected it to go down something like that......I found it odd he went to the trouble of exchanging gunfire rather than just going Smokie all over their asses.

                      But don't you think if he had gone 'Smokie mode' there, it would have actually reinforced Sawyers feelings of how they HAD to leave Flocke behind and fit right into Flocke's plan?

                      • 1 vote
                      #9.11 - Wed May 5, 2010 10:53 AM EDT
                      JohnBoy813

                      Blackwidow, I too expected Nem to catch fire or scream "I'm melting, I'm melting" when he hit the water. I was very shocked when he pulled himself back onto the dock. Perhaps because the water was not that deep (just deep enough for the sub) he did not 'break' any of the rules which prevented him from traveling between islands by swimming or smokeing across.

                        #9.12 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:05 AM EDT
                        Foundling

                        Excellent point about something happening to 'free' FLocke once they were all dead. I also agree with your hypothesis.

                        Regarding the 'get it in the water' theories regarding smoke, I think we're all being too literal here. If MIB can turn from Locke-alike to Smokey to Christian and back again...and be shot with a thousand bullets without a scratch, I don't think a little water (a la Wizard of Oz) is going to do anything to him. I think the point about the water...and I only watched the episode once, so I could be wrong...was that Jack was concerned about how to stall or divert Locke - who had just casually murdered two guards. Sawyer suggested dumping him in the drink, so to speak.

                        Shoot... had another point and lost it. Hmm...

                        Oh! I was thinking maybe FLocke is the one who shot Kate. (?) Why? That is the only way to lure Jack into the sub to try to 'save' her. Can someone rewind and take a look at where FLocke and Jack were when the shooting started?

                          #9.13 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:20 AM EDT
                          OnlyChild

                          I hope the Smoke Monster/MIB gets killed in every world!! I am so upset with him after tonight's episode.

                          NCL - Death is too good for him. That's probably why he is on the island in the first place - he's in a canister forever with a guard to make sure he doesn't get out. What would be so terrible? Treason? Matricide? Patricide? Infanticide? Or, did he just piss off a crazy god? Answers are coming soon, I hope

                            #9.14 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:45 PM EDT
                            Santa Rosa Mental Health Institute

                            After NemLocke got out of the water, I briefly thought he may not be able to walk a la paralyzed sideways/OG Locke.

                            • 1 vote
                            #9.15 - Fri May 7, 2010 12:19 AM EDT
                            OnlyChild

                            I thought that led Sawyer to believe that the smoke monster could not survive or would be injured by water, and that's why he told Jack to get him in the water. post 9.5

                            When Sawyer went up to yell for Claire, he saw MIB. Whether or not he had thought the water would disable him, he then realized that they were in imminent danger. The column of smoke could harm the sub. Remember, he didn't spend a day looking out over the ocean getting "islandized" as Jack did. Sawyer still operated on evidence. He knew that MIB is
                            Smokey (MIB told him; a bit of truth is useful in a con). MIB started running toward the sub. Sawyer looked scared, left Claire behind, pulled the hatch door down and told Frank to dive, dive. Of course he thought the bomb would go off if not disabled. He wasn't rash- he was conned. In a beautiful scheme. He is not going to like that.

                              #9.16 - Sat May 8, 2010 10:21 AM EDT
                              Reply
                              jen-793050

                              As to MIB leaving, it seemed to me that while he was on dock, it was like he was waiting for something to happen and when whatever it may be didn't happen he realized they weren't all dead, or maybe he realized that Desmond wasn't dead or since he was still in Locke's body he realized they weren't all dead. Hope that made some sense.

                              • 1 vote
                              Reply#10 - Tue May 4, 2010 10:45 PM EDT
                              scrambledeggs

                              you do make sense. it was like MIB was picking up their scent. or maybe when he refered to not all of them being dead, he was talking about how he knew that Desmond was still alive, and that's what he was going to finish.

                              not sure if Desmond will be in the well when he gets there. but who's left to help him out?

                              • 1 vote
                              #10.1 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:05 PM EDT
                              jen-793050

                              We still don't know where Richard, Miles or Ben are or what island Jack etc. washed up on.

                                #10.2 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:11 PM EDT
                                pinkcap

                                jen

                                I agree. He must sense that he can't leave yet.

                                  #10.3 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:14 PM EDT
                                  Samhill

                                  not sure if Desmond will be in the well when he gets there. but who's left to help him out?

                                  Vincent!!

                                  • 3 votes
                                  #10.4 - Wed May 5, 2010 6:04 AM EDT
                                  JohnBoy813

                                  I got the deisinct impression that if all the candidates were dead Nem would just float off the island and since he didn't he knew that some had survived. And I do not think that Desmond is a candidate, he is more of a guidance counsler to them.

                                    #10.5 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:09 AM EDT
                                    Foundling

                                    not sure if Desmond will be in the well when he gets there. but who's left to help him out?

                                    Vincent!!

                                    LOL Samhill! Interesting point though. Somewhere, minding their own business, Rose, Bernard and Vincent are on the island (or are they back in the 60s? I forget...). Don't rule them out. :) Especially since we just saw them in the sideways world. Ok, maybe wishful thinking is getting the better of me.

                                      #10.6 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:29 AM EDT
                                      Reply
                                      scrambledeggs

                                      when Jack knocked Flocke into the water, I half expected him to scream and melt away like Dorothy's wicked witch

                                      • 6 votes
                                      Reply#11 - Tue May 4, 2010 10:48 PM EDT
                                      pinkcap

                                      I was hoping he would. Maybe Locke's body is a barrier that protects him from it.

                                        #11.1 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:15 PM EDT
                                        NCL70506

                                        scrambled eggs - Thanks for the chuckle in the aftermath of such a sad development in tonight's episode.

                                          #11.2 - Wed May 5, 2010 1:10 AM EDT
                                          Samhill

                                          I didn't think anything would necessarily happen to him in the water, other than he can't turn into the smoke monster if he's in the water, therefore he can't stop them from boarding the sub and closing the hatch. Of course, we figured out that he didn't want to stop them anyway. I'll be interested to see how Claire reacts to once again being "abandoned" by everyone.

                                          • 1 vote
                                          #11.3 - Wed May 5, 2010 6:06 AM EDT
                                          belle42

                                          Again it's her own darn fault -- Sawyer tried to call her in but she was too obsessed with shooting Widmore's henchmen (even though Smokey had that covered within her line of sight). If you want on the darn sub, get on quick before you're left behind!

                                          • 3 votes
                                          #11.4 - Wed May 5, 2010 8:09 AM EDT
                                          Reply
                                          Aqualeo

                                          The Big Questions:

                                          • Why does Nemesis want to kill all of the candidates?

                                          He has to kill them to get off the island. He is now pure evil. The remaining Candidates will now join with Widmore to fight Smokey.

                                          But, that battle will have to wait a week. It looks like Smokey's origin will be told.

                                          And I totally forgot about Lapidus. I loved that guy. Who is going to fly the plane now?

                                            Reply#12 - Tue May 4, 2010 10:58 PM EDT
                                            pinkcap

                                            In a way this episode was great and in another way it was very sad. I knew that Sun and Sayid would be dying soon from a spoiler that was posted a couple of weeks ago, but I wasn't expecting Jin to go also. In a way I'm glad that they went together. Jin wouldn't have had a will to live if he survived. Is Lapidus dead? I'm not sure he is.

                                            I like the connection of candidates in both worlds - Locke a candidate for surgery in the sideways and the six candidates for Jacob's replacement. I thought it interesting that Jack is still trying to fix things in the sideways world, but in the island world, he's come to the realization that he can't fix everything and sometimes he just has to let things happen.

                                            Was it me, or did Bernard seem to be aware of something while talking to Jack? He brought up the coincidence of them being on the same flight and he remembered the name of Locke's father from three years prior.

                                            Why does Nemesis want to kill all of the candidates? The only way he can get off the island is for Jacob's replacement to be gone. He can't kill him, just like he couldn't kill Jacob. He has to have someone else do it for him. He has to kill all the candidates because he doesn't know who the replacement is. I suspected he was going to try to get them all in one place and do it. It would be hard for him to find someone to kill six people individually and even if he could find someone to do it, once one of them was killed, the rest would be on notice and he wouldn't have the element of surprise. I thought he was going to have Sayid kill the group, and that may have been his original plan until Sayid talked to Desmond. I think that Jacob's spirit is in Desmond and he was able to rid Sayid's body of whatever it was that was making him despondent. It was good to see Sayid redeem himself in the end - it was so reminiscent of Michael's death.

                                            I am also reminded of the episode The Man From Tallahassee, which also featured Anthony Cooper. In that episode, Locke had some C4 explosives in his backpack which he took from the Flame station. He used it to blow up a submarine that was going to take Jack and Juliet off the island.

                                            It was interesting to see Jack put the pieces together about Flocke and know that the bomb would not explode. I do believe that Jack will be the replacement with Desmond being his guide/mentor to his new world and duties. One game will end, and a new one will begin. Hopefully, Hurley will stay. He could be the new temple master.

                                            • 5 votes
                                            Reply#13 - Tue May 4, 2010 10:59 PM EDT
                                            blackwidow1

                                            pinkcap ... thank you for bringing up Bernard and his odd behavior during tonight's episode. In my notes I wrote, "Bernard's creepy" ... he definitely seemed to be aware of or know something. When he started talking about Jack flirting with Rose when he was in the restroom, I thought, "Oh ... he's just a jealous guy" but I don't think so. Maybe some of these innocuous characters have been much more instrumental to the show than we previously thought. Like you brought up Libby's involvement in your article this week. Could some of these seemingly innocuous characters be instrumental to the story as a whole?

                                            • 3 votes
                                            #13.1 - Wed May 5, 2010 1:51 AM EDT
                                            Lori-1673701

                                            I am confused about Bernard! I thought in the sideways world he taught at the school with Ben and John Locke, now he's a dentist???

                                              #13.2 - Wed May 5, 2010 8:44 AM EDT
                                              pinkcap

                                              Lori

                                              It was Arzdt who taught at the school with Ben and John.

                                                #13.3 - Wed May 5, 2010 8:53 AM EDT
                                                formermormon

                                                Bernard was a dentist in the original time line too.

                                                • 1 vote
                                                #13.4 - Wed May 5, 2010 10:17 AM EDT
                                                Lori-1673701

                                                Oh jeese that's right. Sorry my bad.

                                                  #13.5 - Wed May 5, 2010 10:47 AM EDT
                                                  JohnBoy813

                                                  I found the line from Bernard "I hope you find what you are looking for" to be very interesting. It is almost as if he is also aware of both timelines. And thinking back to the plane in the sideways universe. It was Rose that comforted Jack when the plane hit turbulance rather than the other way around.

                                                  • 2 votes
                                                  #13.6 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:15 AM EDT
                                                  belle42

                                                  OK, slight tangent, but every time I hear "I hope you find what you are looking for" my brain goes to U2's "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" (lyrics in link)

                                                  http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/I-Still-Haven't-Found-What-I'm-Looking-For-lyrics-U2/61125961BC442A1F48256896002CF743

                                                  I wonder if Smokey hasn't found what he is looking for (especially the 'loosed chains' and 'held the hand of the Devil' lines...

                                                    #13.7 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:42 AM EDT
                                                    pinkcap

                                                    Could some of these seemingly innocuous characters be instrumental to the story as a whole?

                                                    Black widow - I wondered the same thing myself. Every weekend, ABC reruns old episodes of Lost. I record them and watch them later. What I always find amazing is that there are scenes in these episodes that at the time they first aired, I found meaningless, but watching them now, I realize that they have meaning. I thought Bernard had a sense of knowing. I think Rose had that same quality when she was trying to reassure Jack on the plane and when she was interviewing Locke at the employment agency. If they didn't come back to the year 2007, then they would be living out the remainder of their lives in the past. In that case, they probably died a peaceful,natural death. Maybe that has some effect on their sideways world lives.

                                                    As for Libby, I do think she was part of a grand plan by Widmore and/or Eloise. What are the chances of a stranger giving you their boat just when a very peculiar woman tells you that your destiny is to sail around the world, end up on an island, and enter numbers into a computer for three years in order to save the world? She was in a mental institution where the residents draw pictures depicting island life and one of the residents is Hurley.

                                                      #13.8 - Wed May 5, 2010 9:01 PM EDT
                                                      OnlyChild

                                                      I am also reminded of the episode The Man From Tallahassee, which also featured Anthony Cooper. In that episode, Locke had some C4 explosives in his backpack which he took from the Flame station. He used it to blow up a submarine that was going to take Jack and Juliet off the island.

                                                      That's what I was trying to remember. Thank you pinkcap. That's weird, isn't it?

                                                        #13.9 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:59 PM EDT
                                                        say what??

                                                        Something else about Locke blowing up the sub in that episode - he went inside the sub to plant the C-4 but the next time we saw him he was soaking wet and how/why he got wet was never explained. In "The Candidate" he used C-4 and was thrown into the water, so there's lots of deja vu going on, a mirror image of a prior event but with the mirror at a slightly different angle.

                                                        • 2 votes
                                                        #13.10 - Thu May 6, 2010 7:15 AM EDT
                                                        pinkcap

                                                        ....there's lots of deja vu going on, a mirror image of a prior event but with the mirror at a slightly different angle.

                                                        I've been noticing the same thing with other episodes. For example, Flashes Before Your Eyes and Happily Ever After. Those were the two episodes featuring Desmond. In both episodes, Desmond is in Widmore's office, there's a model of a boat and a painting - polar bear in one and scales in the other. Widmore dispenses scotch - Desmond's not worthy of it in one, yet he's worthy of it in the other. He goes to a bar in both episodes. We see his first introduction to Eloise in both episodes. In each world, she gives him a warning about the future. She has an ouriborous pin in one and pins that look like two stars or two universes (I tend to think they are universes) in the other. In both worlds, he wakes up and realizes what he needs to do.

                                                        Another "different angle mirror image" between The Candidate and The Man from Tallahassee is that in one, Anthony Cooper is the cause of Locke being in a wheelchair, in the other Locke is responsible for putting his father and himself in one. In the Candidate, Flocke was manipulating the events that led to the explosion and in The Man from T, Ben was manipulating Locke into blowing up the sub. To quote Only Child, "weird, isn't it?"

                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #13.11 - Thu May 6, 2010 9:36 AM EDT
                                                        Reply
                                                        MadMaxi

                                                        I'm sorry, but I cannot believe that Sun would not have told Jin he must live for the sake of their daughter and convinced him to go and leave her to die and he must raise their daughter. Love is what matters and the love of their child trumps even the love they have for each other, or , sacrificial love that parents give to their children. Especially after they had a whole show dedicated to the naming of their child. Don't know, but to me that scene just didn't ring true given how much they both wanted their child to be born. But that is only my opinion, it seemed like a forced scene for the two of them..

                                                        • 4 votes
                                                        Reply#14 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:04 PM EDT
                                                        Rebecca D

                                                        I was thinking the same thing... not one mention of their daughter? Just "oh well, she'll live with grandma"

                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #14.1 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:04 AM EDT
                                                        CrimsonKing

                                                        Ah, but the bond of marriage is supposed to be eternal. You are bound to your spouse. Your children, you love them and protect them, but at some point they leave to begin their own life, to form their own bond.

                                                        • 1 vote
                                                        #14.2 - Wed May 5, 2010 8:45 AM EDT
                                                        Ross-883683

                                                        Ji-Yeon, Aaron and Walt are all being raised by their grandmothers now. Is that a coincidence? And at this point, Claire (and as far as we know) and Aaron's father are the only parent's still alive. Sun, Jin, Michael and Walt's mother Susan are gone. Three due to the island. Do these children play more into this than we think?

                                                        • 2 votes
                                                        #14.3 - Wed May 5, 2010 9:53 AM EDT
                                                        Samhill

                                                        Well, technically, if Juliet was right when she said "it worked" and the original Flight 815 never crashed, then Ji Yeon doesn't really exist does she? Neither does Desmond and Penny's son Charlie. Aaron hasn't been born yet, and Michael isn't dead. Right?

                                                          #14.4 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:05 AM EDT
                                                          Foundling

                                                          But Sun is pregnant in sideways world. So technically Ji-Yeon does exists (assuming it's her an not sideways sibling :) ).

                                                          I had a little trouble with Jin staying too. If there is a chance he is a candidate, wouldn't Sun (and he) want to make sure that MIB doesn't get off the island to kill everyone (including Ji-Yeon). Parental self-sacrifice fell flat here. They died to stay together, not to protect their child.

                                                          More textual evidence that the writers are male...? A momma bear would have kicked Jin's behind out of that sub to make sure the world was a better place for little Ji-Yeon.

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #14.5 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:56 AM EDT
                                                          T Bourlon

                                                          Oh you GUYS! Sun BEGGED him to go, she could hardly kick him out with her legs pinned. But Jin made a promise to HER, too, that he would NEVER leave her again, and he kept that promise. Besides, it's clear they weren't going to get off the Island anyway, so taking care of Ji-Yeon wouldn't be an issue for them, would it?

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #14.6 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:43 PM EDT
                                                          Foundling

                                                          Bah humbug! Nothing's "clear" on Lost. :) I wasn't saying he should get off the island. I was saying he should stay and keep MIB from getting off the island.

                                                          That would be my context anyway. I think Sun should have played the "Screw your promise to stay with me while I/we die... go make sure our daughter lives!" trump card.

                                                          And Jin should have done so.

                                                          And yes, I am a formerly-hopeless, recovering romantic type. But that was a little far for me. I found it almost blatently insulting as a conclusion. What good is Jin dead? If I were Sun I would have found more comfort in knowing that I'd sent him to ensure Ji-Yeon's safety (albeit as an orphan) than knowing that he kept some promise to stay with (and die with) me.

                                                          Ok, done ranting. (I really wasn't ranting. Just my POV.)

                                                          • 1 vote
                                                          #14.7 - Wed May 5, 2010 3:35 PM EDT
                                                          Reply
                                                          jograyghost

                                                          Any thoughts on why Flocke was still so kind to Claire. Wow what a slaughter fest, but I was so glad Sayid was a Hero in the end. Desmond is key to this as well. And really what is Whitmore up to. He's free with his hirelings lives. Wasn't room 23 on the sub? I am really tired and just rambling others will have better comments

                                                            Reply#15 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:07 PM EDT
                                                            Inchiki

                                                            If Jack's speculation is right, than Flocke cannot kill the candidates directly. So Flocke still needs a follower to do his dirty work. He can manipulate Claire by reminding her that they--especially Kate and her promise--left her . . . again!

                                                            • 2 votes
                                                            #15.1 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:35 PM EDT
                                                            formermormon

                                                            Wasn't room 23 on the sub?

                                                            no, it was on the small island. It is the same room where Alex's boyfriend, Carl was tortured.

                                                            • 2 votes
                                                            #15.2 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:56 PM EDT
                                                            jograyghost

                                                            Ah yes. Thanks everyone

                                                              #15.3 - Wed May 5, 2010 6:20 PM EDT
                                                              Reply
                                                              Inchiki

                                                              The power of great storytelling as the highs and lows were all tumbled together.

                                                              Sayid had convinced himself he was evil but he redeemed himself in the end. In the Sideways, Jack as a man of faith told Locke that the he wished Locke had believed that Jack could help him (a reflection of what Locke told him on the Island). Sun and Jin. Sawyer. I almost don't care about the MIB/Jacob backstory because I'm blinded by rage against Locke. Nothing that happened to MIB justifies so much wanton destruction and death (Losties, sub and crew, Widmore's group, who knows how many came to the Island and not just candidates)! Isn't one of the upcoming episodes titled "What They Died For" ? Very aptly named.

                                                            • Why does Nemesis want to kill all of the candidates? Like tricking Ben to stab Jacob, Nemesis has to kill the guardian, or candidate(s), of the Island to escape.
                                                              But it raises so many other questions. Now that the sub is gone, the only way off the Island is the plane. Wasn't that Richard's initial target? Yes, we're all wondering where Richard, Miles, and Ben have gone. It would seem easy to sabotage an airplane--bust a fuel line, smash the controls, etc.--then game over and Locke is trapped. Not to mention that there's no pilot! Easy, right?

                                                              So is there another way that Locke and Claire get off the Island?

                                                              • 2 votes
                                                              #16 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:10 PM EDT
                                                              pinkcap

                                                              So is there another way that Locke and Claire get off the Island? I don't think that Locke needs a plane to get off the island. I think the explosives that he found on the plane were put there by him before Widmore arrived on the island. He originally was going to get them all on the plane on the pretense of leaving the island and the explosives would detonate when they were in the air. He changed his plans to the submarine and removed the explosives from the plane. If he needed the plane, why would he try to blow it up? There has to be another way for him to get off the island.

                                                              • 1 vote
                                                              #16.1 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:36 PM EDT
                                                              belle42

                                                              Well there's the obvious...

                                                              The Island is Iceland and Smokey is the one screwing up air travel in Europe :P

                                                              • 8 votes
                                                              #16.2 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:53 PM EDT
                                                              Inchiki

                                                              Evening Pinkcap,

                                                              Good thoughts which I will have to rethink. I initially discarded the idea that Locke had placed the explosives on the plane because of the way he looked at the wiring. He seemed to look at the wiring with disgust, as if he was offended that his enemies would try such an obvious trap. Widmore also had placed guards around the plane so I would have assumed that Widmore's people would have checked for traps, as well. The wires were pretty much obvious.

                                                              Speaking of which, I'm very surprised that Widmore seems to have only brought scientists and techies who have little familiarity with weapons to this "war". Sawyer disarmed Puffy pretty easily. You can't be serious that Widmore can't find more mercs than Keamy.

                                                              • 4 votes
                                                              #16.3 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:57 PM EDT
                                                              Inchiki

                                                              Nice one, Belle! ; )

                                                                #16.4 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:04 AM EDT
                                                                pinkcap

                                                                Inchiki,

                                                                The way he went right to the explosives made me think he placed them on there. His plan was to blow them up in an enclosed space. He wouldn't travel over to Hydra island without the explosives, unless he knew that they were already on Hydra in the plane.

                                                                As for Widmore, I think his plans have to do with releasing all of the pockets of energy to defeat the MIB. That's why he needs to find the pockets. I don't think Widmore was counting on the MIB being able to convince the survivors to join him.

                                                                  #16.5 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:06 AM EDT
                                                                  NCL70506

                                                                  pinkcap and Inchiki - I am torn between your thoughts on MIB and the explosives.

                                                                  If MIB previously went to Hydra Island to plant the explosives on the plane, how did he get over there? Maybe he is lying about not being able to go in the water, since we saw him emerge perfectly fine after Jack pushed him into the water tonight. And if he did plant the explosives on the plane, what would have happened if everyone, including MIB, got on the plane and it exploded? Or maybe MIB would not have gotten on the plane because he knew it would explode and thereby kill the candidates, but how would he explain to them that he was not getting on the plane after all his conversations about leaving the Island together?

                                                                  If MIB had the plane all ready to go with the explosives, why would he suddenly change his mind and take the explosives to form a new plan of putting it in Jack's backpack to explode on the sub? Frank was ready to try and fly the plane, and the rest of the group was right there and ready to go.

                                                                  Or maybe Richard, Ben, and Miles put the explosives on the plane. If I remember correctly, they were going to look for explosives last time we saw them.

                                                                  Something else that caught my attention - MIB took the watch off one of Widmore's men just before he entered the Ajira plane. Later, when Sayid was examining the bomb, he mentioned there was a watch attached. So, maybe the plane was rigged with explosives by Richard or Widmore, MIB realized this, took the C4 and altered it somehow by adding the watch, and then put it in Jack's backpack so it could explode on the sub.

                                                                  Whatever it was, the sad part is that MIB basically told the group his real plan, but passed it off as Widmore's plan - to get them all in one place at the same time and they would all be killed - but they did not realize it at the time.

                                                                  • 2 votes
                                                                  #16.6 - Wed May 5, 2010 1:56 AM EDT
                                                                  OnlyChild

                                                                  So, maybe the plane was rigged with explosives by Richard or Widmore, MIB realized this, took the C4 and altered it somehow by adding the watch, and then put it in Jack's backpack so it could explode on the sub.

                                                                  That makes sense to me. But when did MIB learn to rig a bomb with a watch? Did he learn from the time Dharma was there? Does he "absorb" knowledge from those around him - Sayid for example?

                                                                  • 2 votes
                                                                  #16.7 - Wed May 5, 2010 2:22 AM EDT
                                                                  NCL70506

                                                                  OnlyChild - I think anything is possible with MIB. He has been around for a long, long time. He probably knows a lot of things, and you may be right that he can absorb knowledge from those around him, especially the people he has "infected" or taken to the form of. We know he has some memories of the real John Locke.

                                                                  • 2 votes
                                                                  #16.8 - Wed May 5, 2010 3:33 AM EDT
                                                                  Samhill

                                                                  So is there another way that Locke and Claire get off the Island

                                                                  There's the boat and the donkey wheel

                                                                  • 7 votes
                                                                  #16.9 - Wed May 5, 2010 6:12 AM EDT
                                                                  pinkcap

                                                                  NCL

                                                                  If MIB previously went to Hydra Island to plant the explosives on the plane, how did he get over there? He probably took the boat that he used in last night's episode.

                                                                  And if he did plant the explosives on the plane, what would have happened if everyone, including MIB, got on the plane and it exploded? If the MIB had gotten on the plane before the candidates were killed, the plane would not be able to take off because the MIB can't get off the island until everyone is killed. That's why I never believed he was going with them in the first place. The island won't let him leave until the candidates are dead and if he wants off the island, the first thing he has to do is find a way to kill the candidates.

                                                                  Widmore had no reason to kill the candidates, he was trying to protect them last night. The fact that the MIB took the watch off before he went on the plane is further proof that he knew the explosives were there. I don't know how the MIB would have explained not getting on the plane, but he managed not to get on the sub. Sawyer thought he was conning the MIB, but I think the MIB is the ultimate con man and knew exactly what Sawyer was up to the entire time. He knew that Sawyer had no intention of letting him go with them and the MIB would just play along with Sawyer and let him believe he was in control.

                                                                  Inchiki, you asked why he would make the wires obvious on the plane. It's so that the Losties could find it and try to disarm it like Sawyer did in the sub. The MIB can't kill them, they can only kill themselves.

                                                                  Now that the survivors know that he wants to kill them, it will be harder for him to kill all of them.

                                                                  • 5 votes
                                                                  #16.10 - Wed May 5, 2010 8:49 AM EDT
                                                                  Lostie Girl

                                                                  pinkcap -

                                                                  Sawyer thought he was conning the MIB, but I think the MIB is the ultimate con man..."

                                                                  Again, the reoccurance of "The Long Con".

                                                                  • 4 votes
                                                                  #16.11 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:07 AM EDT
                                                                  kcjhawk

                                                                  So is ther another way that Locke and Claire get off the island?

                                                                  Yes, Claire's hair looks more and more like a nest. A huge bird will soon land in it. Locke will use his power to tame the bird and it will carry him off the island. Claire will be left mothering the hatchlings that the bird left in her hair nest. Her maternal instincts will be fulfilled, though again, she has been left behind. Her new spin off series will be "What Lives in Claire's Hair?"

                                                                  • 7 votes
                                                                  #16.12 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:47 PM EDT
                                                                  T Bourlon

                                                                  Yeah, I was going to say Donkey Wheel, but that's assuming he won't just go "poof" when all the candidates are dead, and go to his "home" instantly, wherever that is. If they turn out to be aliens a la "Indiana Jones 4" then I'll be even more pissed than I am about Jin and Sun. That part totally sucked!

                                                                  • 1 vote
                                                                  #16.13 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:47 PM EDT
                                                                  NCL70506

                                                                  kcjhawk - Your scenario with Claire's hair is so funny. :)

                                                                  pinkcap - Yes, I agree that MIB can't leave the Island until all the candidates are killed. That's why my next sentence referred to MIB not getting on the plane. Sometimes I ramble when it gets late, and last night's episode left me in a little bit of shock, with the deaths of Sun, Jin, Sayid, and Frank.

                                                                  It would by nice to know how MIB could actually leave the Island. I just can't picture him flying a plane or anything like that. It seems like it would have to be in some mythical or other-worldly way, something that would suit a "being" like him.

                                                                    #16.14 - Wed May 5, 2010 3:18 PM EDT
                                                                    say what??

                                                                    It would by nice to know how MIB could actually leave the Island. I just can't picture him flying a plane or anything like that. It seems like it would have to be in some mythical or other-worldly way, something that would suit a "being" like him.

                                                                    Maybe he will turn into "star stuff" and streak across the sky like a falling star, and that will trigger a catastrophic cosmological event that will rip the fabric of space-time, ending the existence of the Losties' reality - he will become a black hole! Or something like that. That would be pretty malevolent.

                                                                    • 2 votes
                                                                    #16.15 - Wed May 5, 2010 4:02 PM EDT
                                                                    NCL70506

                                                                    say what - I love the black hole idea! It would totally suit MIB.

                                                                      #16.16 - Wed May 5, 2010 5:05 PM EDT
                                                                      kcjhawk

                                                                      What if his spirit can't die until all the candidates are dead? He doesn't have his own human form anymore. He might equate dying with going home.

                                                                        #16.17 - Wed May 5, 2010 5:51 PM EDT
                                                                        pinkcap

                                                                        say what?

                                                                        I love that idea of him turning into a star and causing a cosmological event. If you read the threads for post #3, we were discussing the significance of the song "Catch a Falling Star." If you read mine, I mention a book by an author named John Brunner that shares the same title. I couldn't find out much about this book, but I read a couple of reviews. The book is about an astronomer who learns that an asteroid will hit the earth and he tries to get someone to help him stop this, but it's hard because the people are apathetic and don't care. He feels that it only takes one man to make a difference. If you're correct, then that would explain why the song has been played in two episodes where the MIB has the upper hand.

                                                                        Everyone in the know seems to think we will all cease to exist if the MIB is let loose on the world. I thought that he would just be able to "turn into a stream of smoke and fly his ass off the island," but I think your idea fits with the song and the ceasing to exist scenario.

                                                                          #16.18 - Wed May 5, 2010 8:27 PM EDT
                                                                          Inchiki

                                                                          From death to black holes . . . those are some intriguing notions. Will "What Lives in Claire's Hair?" come before the Sawyer/Miles cop show or after on Must-see Tuesdays (since Tuesdays will need to fill an hour at least)? I will miss the originality of this community, sigh.

                                                                          Along the lines of going home, I think he's told Jack and the others that he wants to leave the Island. We do know that he's told Jacob that he wants to go home. What if "home" is not off the Island but someplace on the Island that he doesn't have access to? There may not be anything more to "getting off the island" than getting the candidates all in an enclosed, confined space. And boom goes the dynamite.

                                                                          Here's another going home-related idea. I'm certainly not familiar with all the books referred to by the show's producers, but one recurring source is the Wizard of Oz. The movie version--as I have no knowledge of the book--has Dorothy going home by the powers of her ruby slippers. Is Locke still wearing Christian's shoes? Just saying.

                                                                          Uh, the fact that Locke picks up the watch before he enters the plane still does not definitively prove that he planted the explosives himself. He mentions that he knew the plane was a trap because Widmore withdrew the pylons. On the other hand, I can understand why Locke would rather use the sub. First, he lulls the Losties into feeling they can trust him by revealing the Ajira explosives. Second, as other posters noted, being underwater is much more dangerous than being in the air. One can always strap in, open a hatch, and let the pressure differential suck the bomb out of a plane. It's less likely to be able to find the torpedo tube to rid the bomb.

                                                                          Well, if I'm ever to read the rest of the posts, I'd better stop now. Aloha.

                                                                            #16.19 - Thu May 6, 2010 12:19 AM EDT
                                                                            say what??

                                                                            Is Locke still wearing Christian's shoes?

                                                                            No, and they wouldn't be too comfortable for traipsing around in the jungle, anyway. BTW, he ditched the suit and has his old clothes and his back pack - where did he get them?

                                                                              #16.20 - Thu May 6, 2010 7:34 AM EDT
                                                                              pinkcap

                                                                              Inchiki

                                                                              You always have such great thoughts. I love the idea about the shoes being tied to going home. There have been a couple of references to the Wizard of Oz in the series and last week, we were discussing the significance of Christian's shoes. I agree with say what, he is not wearing them right now, but he may be carrying them in his backpack for when the time comes.

                                                                              That's an interesting thought about home being a place on the island that he doesn't have access to. I don't think the place is his home because Widmore, Jacob, and Eloise are worried about him getting off the island. I do think that you could be right when you say that he will have access to a place on the island when he is free. What if this place contained a portal that can take him to his home? Maybe it's similar to the donkey wheel, but more advanced. We always wondered how Jacob was able to travel to the outside world. This place that the MIB can't get to could be the portal to the outside world that Jacob used. I always wondered if Jacob used those pockets of EM energy that are connected throughout the world. We know there's a connection between the island and Tunisia. According to lostpedia.com, Tunisia is on the exact opposite side of the world from the island. I believe there is a pocket in Australia that's located near the healer that Rose went to see. We know there's one in LA at the lamppost. Could these be the portals that Jacob used to travel to the outside world? Maybe this is the EM pocket that Widmore is trying to find so that he can block the MIB's access to it.

                                                                              I re-read your post about the explosives on plane, and you do have a point. You said that Widmore would have checked the plane first and you're right, that is what he would have done. But, how did the MIB know that the explosives were on the plane? He knew where to find the explosives on the plane, and he took the watch before he entered the plane. He had a plan and knew that when he took everyone over to the island that he would have to work fast and get that bomb made. He knew the explosives were on the plane. If he didn't put them there, then he knew they were planted there before he arrived on Hydra.

                                                                                #16.21 - Thu May 6, 2010 10:06 AM EDT
                                                                                T Bourlon

                                                                                I've speculated that there is some big clue about Tunesia, and possibly MIB's origin. That used to be Carthage and Phonecia. I wonder if the statue was actually some Phonecian God instead of Egyptian. The only Phonecian God I'm familiar with is Ba'al, and I think MIB fits the Ba'al description pretty well. But yeah, this is just speculation, and the reference to the "crazy mother," was he referring to Locke's mother or his own? Hmmm....

                                                                                  #16.22 - Thu May 6, 2010 10:42 AM EDT
                                                                                  Reply
                                                                                  Psybrchick

                                                                                  Wow! I am completely flabbergasted, and emotionally spent. I had held out so much hope that Sun and Jin would be together away from the island. It seems wrong for them to have gone through so much only to die. Because of that, I can't say this episode was fantastic.

                                                                                  Ok ... obviously MIB wants all the candidates dead, as until there are no candidates, the CORK is still in place.

                                                                                  But I now have a theory on the "sideways" (or maybe just wishful thinking for Sun and Jin) What if it is the life that they all get if they are successful in keeping MIB on the island? It would seem that everyone so far has a much better life than they had before (with the exception of Kate, and we don't know about her yet). Just a theory ...

                                                                                  But I think the BIGGEST question is .... how are they going to pull this all together in less than 4 hours???

                                                                                  • 4 votes
                                                                                  Reply#17 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:33 PM EDT
                                                                                  Samhill

                                                                                  Sayid's life in the alternate isn't looking so good. He's just been arrested for murdering the bad guys in the restaurant. Perhaps Jin an come vouch for him or something!

                                                                                    #17.1 - Wed May 5, 2010 6:16 AM EDT
                                                                                    Foundling

                                                                                    Or Sawyer could somehow find a way to have him released or escape (oh come on... he did that for Kate!).

                                                                                    OR, maybe Sayid would happily take his punishment to soothe his guilty conscience. That's probably where we'd have to go with him to keep the 'this is the life they could have had' theory.

                                                                                    But what about Rose? Does she die of cancer? And Charlie... a junkie forever and no Claire? Is that life better than dying a hero on the island for saving Desmond?

                                                                                    Maybe, to achieve the sideways life, they have to complete their purpose (replacement for Jacob), and then die in that timeline.

                                                                                      #17.2 - Wed May 5, 2010 3:55 PM EDT
                                                                                      Reply
                                                                                      molly-243100

                                                                                      The song on the music box is what Claire sang to baby Aaron, not sure if it has more meaning than that, but I remember her singing it to him.

                                                                                        Reply#18 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:34 PM EDT
                                                                                        One Miscreant

                                                                                        Ok, I guess the plane isn't getting off the ground either. No Frank, no fly. Unless Flocke has a pilot inside.

                                                                                          Reply#19 - Tue May 4, 2010 11:49 PM EDT
                                                                                          JustinPM

                                                                                          Ghost Frank is going to tell Hurley or Miles how to fly. : )

                                                                                          • 5 votes
                                                                                          #19.1 - Wed May 5, 2010 5:42 AM EDT
                                                                                          Foundling

                                                                                          JustinPM - brilliant!! Interesting, the two people who 'see dead people' have been spared so far. Very conveeeeenient...

                                                                                          Love it.

                                                                                            #19.2 - Wed May 5, 2010 4:04 PM EDT
                                                                                            Reply
                                                                                            Jacobisaliar

                                                                                            Why does Nemesis want to kill all of the candidates?

                                                                                            I'm going to play the villain card here, but I STILL believe Smokey isn't all bad. I think the C4 in the backpack was meant to kill Jack - and Jack only. Smokey gave Jack many, many chances to join him and, when he chose not to, Smokey decided to kill him. It's reminiscent of how he gave Bram and the other bodyguards the chance to leave alive and, when they CHOSE to attack him, he killed them. Or how he offered to let everyone leave the temple and survive; those who CHOSE to stay died. The show has a theme of choices; Jacob claims he wants people to make the right choices.....maybe Smokey does, too.

                                                                                            On another note, maybe I'm completely wrong. Maybe this is just the culmination of Smokey's "Mouse Trap" that Locke explained in season 1. Long and careful planning leads to the mouse walking into the trap himself.

                                                                                            BUT, and that's a pretty big but, I'm not satisfied with Smokey being PURE evil. He may not be inherently "good", but I STILL stubbornly don't believe he's as bad as they're making him out to be. He could have let Jack die from Witmore's mortars (I thought it was an AC130, but I'm not sure why in retrospect) and no one would have been the wiser; why save Jack just to kill him later if Smokey stood no chance of being suspect? I think all of this - everything Smokey has done so far - is a ruse to dissuade us from believing he could be good. I think next week's episode may prove me right......maybe.

                                                                                            I just want to make sure you all know that I accept that I could be completely wrong.

                                                                                            • 3 votes
                                                                                            Reply#20 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:03 AM EDT
                                                                                            blackwidow1

                                                                                            Jacobisaliar ... I am with you and accept that I too could be completely wrong ... and I totally respect that you are willing to put yourself out there like a few other of us that are willing to stand up for your perspective even though it isn't the popular opinion (see my post #24). LOL! ... we are like that stubbon tomato from Sun's garden that didn't know we were supposed to die! The way I look at it, if I'm wrong, so what. Its a TV show. Its a guess to the outcome of a story.

                                                                                            With regard to the story itself, I agree it about choice. Its about human choice ... about human free will. Jacob chooses the players and MIB can manipulate the players. But ultimately it is the players who decide what happens. MIB has said repeatedly that he cannot make anyone do anything they don't want to do. And up to this point, he hasn't forced anyone to do anything they didn't want to do. To say otherwise would be to say that the players didn't decide for themselves.

                                                                                            • 4 votes
                                                                                            #20.1 - Wed May 5, 2010 2:26 AM EDT
                                                                                            Lostie Girl

                                                                                            You two aren't the only stubborn ones! I still don't think that MIB is completely evil. I am hoping during a future episode with his sideways flash that we will see why he is acting this way. That maybe it is a case of "extreme times call for extreme measures".

                                                                                            For example, if you had never watched all the episodes of Lost and just happened to turn on the TV to find previous scenes involving Sayid think how that would look. Wouldn't even season 1 Sayid look pure evil if you didn't have a context for his actions?

                                                                                            I too am probably wrong, but I don't want to rule out possibilities for a twist ending just yet.

                                                                                            • 2 votes
                                                                                            #20.2 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:16 AM EDT
                                                                                            belle42

                                                                                            All due respect, but Darlton has pretty much spoken on this matter:

                                                                                            http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/04/lost-producers-actors-candidate/

                                                                                            • 4 votes
                                                                                            #20.3 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:44 AM EDT
                                                                                            SunFun07

                                                                                            Long time lurker, first time poster...Last night my bf (who has only watched this season) made a pretty good point. He's with you Jacabisaliar. In the old testament, the God of Abraham was a pretty nasty to his people through out time. The devil was kind and benevolent while he was on the long con. God would leave it to the free will of the individual and they would have to suffer the consequences of thier actions but the devil would lead people down the wrong path assuring them along the way that it was good and what they are entitled to what he was promising.

                                                                                            I don't know where I stand with Jacob and the MIB. I starting to lean towards the MIB. If Jacob is evil, he would want to contain good from the outside world because to him good is bad. In the sideways world, all the losties lives are better for the most part. They made differant dicisions with thier lives in the sideways world and they are happier for it. They took differant paths, free will. When the island sank, was it because Jacob won or the MIB was released into the world? When the island sank, did it prevent Jacob from intervening with the canidates lives?

                                                                                            Lots of questions

                                                                                            • 1 vote
                                                                                            #20.4 - Wed May 5, 2010 1:50 PM EDT
                                                                                            kcjhawk

                                                                                            Sebastian: We can't change their minds--they drank Locke's Koolaid. LOL ;>)

                                                                                            • 2 votes
                                                                                            #20.5 - Wed May 5, 2010 3:18 PM EDT
                                                                                            Sabastian Palpatine

                                                                                            I know, right? Damn that Terry O'Quinn for being so damn charming and convincing!!

                                                                                              #20.6 - Wed May 5, 2010 3:47 PM EDT
                                                                                              scrambledeggs

                                                                                              MIB is bad! MIB is bad!

                                                                                                #20.7 - Wed May 5, 2010 4:49 PM EDT
                                                                                                lostinventura

                                                                                                belle42, thanks for the link. given that in all the seasons of Lost, the writers have never been so unequivocating, I find myself actually not trusting what they say. but i know that's only b/c I want to believe I wasn't victim to their long con.

                                                                                                that aside, i was thinking about Richard Alpert and how he killed a man in the name of something good. Clealry Richard wanted nothing more than to save his beloved. He rode day and night through the rain, risking runny eyeliner, to get her medicine that he believed may save her. he's met with a no and rather than leave, he fights literally to the death to get her the medicine she needs. cut to Richard standing by his dead love, when he's arrested, no questions asked, and sentenced to death. so the question i had was what makes Richard so redeemable, and MIB so evil? are you less evil, less the people you kill? (rhetorical) ar eyou less evil if you kill in the name of love--or saving yoru love? or you less evil if you're willing to die for your sins? i think there could be many answers to these questions, but pragmatically speaking one murder or a hundred murders, it's still murder. this all leads me to if MIB is just as convicted in his plea to be free, as Richard was in his plea to save his love, is MIB any different just because he uses the "Long Con" to achieve his ends?

                                                                                                • 2 votes
                                                                                                #20.8 - Wed May 5, 2010 5:44 PM EDT
                                                                                                Inchiki

                                                                                                Sunfun, I think you actually made the argument for MIB as evil.

                                                                                                but the devil would lead people down the wrong path assuring them along the way that it was good and what they are entitled to what he was promising. Who is making promises to entice people to follow him? Locke promised Claire the return of her son Aaron; implied that he could bring back the dead love of Sayid; and offered control of the Island to Ben Linus. On the other hand, Jacob said he could not bring Richard's love back.

                                                                                                God of Abraham was a pretty nasty to his people Jacob was very cruel to Ben when Ben confronted him about sacrificing Alex to Widmore's mercenaries. Jacob's indifference to Ben's plight is what enraged Ben enough to plunge a knife into his chest. Jacob is the one that said that some people have to come to the realization on their own (free will) as we watch Jack contemplate everything after the outburst at the Lighthouse.

                                                                                                Lostinventura,

                                                                                                Very, very good point on our perception of good/evil. Another illustration that Jacob and MIB are not the ideal of good or evil, but have qualities of both.

                                                                                                Purists that have decided that killing is unacceptable would consider all killing to be unacceptable. Most of us are not idealists to that degree and would allow killing to be justified under such-and-such conditions, usually to uphold the most treasured values. This society values love, so YES, Richard is more redeemable because of that.

                                                                                                MIB has yet to demonstrate that what motivates him also defends a value that we/society holds dear. He cries for freedom, but without knowing his backstory, we don't know if his "imprisonment" is warranted. For all we know, he volunteered to engage in this game, but now that he's unhappy with the game, he wants to toss the board over and storm off.

                                                                                                Hopefully that provides an answer, not necessarily one you were looking for.

                                                                                                • 1 vote
                                                                                                #20.9 - Thu May 6, 2010 1:20 AM EDT
                                                                                                lostinventura

                                                                                                inchiki,

                                                                                                i think factoring social mores does add another layer to this question, but then which cultures' social mores? those from the time MIB lost his humanity? 2007 U.S.? Iraq during Desert Storm when Sayid is forced to torture and kill? someone told me the other day to always remember there are two sides to every story. cliche I know, but when applied, it becomes very critical to understanding people's motivations. Richard's motivations were clear, and we all could agree the guy he killed was jerky. But the other side of the story could be that man had a family, children, a wife, etc. who were devastated by Richard's selfish acts. What does this all mean? That next week's episode will likely be the cross-roads for many of us on Team MIB. I know i will be looking to be validated and that MIB is just a victim of his circumstances, like Richard. However, I'm fully prepared to be proven wrong.

                                                                                                  #20.10 - Thu May 6, 2010 1:53 PM EDT
                                                                                                  Reply
                                                                                                  Jacobisaliar

                                                                                                  Another thing, how Smokey told Claire that he was going to finish what he started : Maybe he meant kill Jack.

                                                                                                    Reply#21 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:06 AM EDT
                                                                                                    Katy-253048

                                                                                                    But Smokey didn't say, "You don't want to be Jack." He said, "You don't want to be on that sub." If he just planned to kill Jack, why would he say that?

                                                                                                      #21.1 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:18 AM EDT
                                                                                                      Jacobisaliar

                                                                                                      Because Jack got on the sub. Jack told Smokey many times that he wasn't getting on the sub with them; if Witmore's people hadn't shot Kate, Jack wouldn't have been on the sub, Smokey and the rest would and, two minutes or so later, Jack, Jacob's replacement, would be dead.

                                                                                                      • 3 votes
                                                                                                      #21.2 - Wed May 5, 2010 5:50 AM EDT
                                                                                                      NotIntoMyths

                                                                                                      I like your logic here, Jacobisaliar. But, as others have asked, are we sure that it wasn't MIB who actually shot Kate, thus ensuring that Jack would get on the sub? Also, if all he wanted to do was let Jack die, why save him from Widmore's mortar attack?

                                                                                                        #21.3 - Wed May 5, 2010 10:08 PM EDT
                                                                                                        Reply
                                                                                                        Coby

                                                                                                        Sideways Locke knows how to fly, it was his first flight that crashed and put him in the wheelchair. I am guessing sideways world  how to fly a plane info will make it into flockes head.

                                                                                                        • 2 votes
                                                                                                        Reply#22 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:34 AM EDT
                                                                                                        NCL70506

                                                                                                        Oh my God. If Flocke gets on that Ajira plane, sits in the pilot seat, and flies himself off the Island, I think I will pass out! Nice observation and theory though, Coby.

                                                                                                        I was hoping we would find out how John Locke ended up in a wheelchair in the sideways world. This time Locke nearly killed his father, although it was unintentional, and he was very upset about it, so much that he wants to stay in a wheelchair like his dad. I don't see how that helps with the guilt he feels, since his dad is clueless if Locke is walking or in a wheelchair. Strange to see the conman Anthony Cooper just sitting there, unable to say anything, much less con anyone.

                                                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                                                        #22.1 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:47 AM EDT
                                                                                                        Reply
                                                                                                        Sabastian Palpatine

                                                                                                        Why does Nemesis want to kill all of the candidates?

                                                                                                        JACOB: So you tried to kill me?

                                                                                                        MAN IN BLACK: You expect an apology?

                                                                                                        JACOB: No. I guess I'm just wondering why you did it.

                                                                                                        MAN IN BLACK: Because I want to leave. Just let me leave, Jacob.

                                                                                                        JACOB: As long as I'm alive, you're not going anywhere.

                                                                                                        MAN IN BLACK: Well then, now you know why I want to kill you. And I will kill you, Jacob.

                                                                                                        JACOB: Even if you do so, somebody else will take my place.

                                                                                                        MAN IN BLACK: Then I'll kill them too.

                                                                                                        (Ab Aeterno)

                                                                                                        Tonight's ep was very good and very emotional.

                                                                                                        RIP Jin, Sun, Sayid and Frank :(

                                                                                                        One highlight for me is watching Jack grow into the role of Jacob. If Sawyer would have just listened to Jack on the sub then the C4 wouldn't have detonated (just like when Jack sat with a suicidal Richard in the Black Rock while the dynamite fuse burned out). Jack finally gets it that his place is on the Island. I've said it before, it's his destiny. I wish that he would have believed me ;)

                                                                                                        I still get the feeling that this whole thing is a family affair with Jacob, MIB, Christian, Locke, Jack, Claire and Aaron.

                                                                                                        • 5 votes
                                                                                                        Reply#23 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:36 AM EDT
                                                                                                        OnlyChild

                                                                                                        If Sawyer would have just listened to Jack on the sub

                                                                                                        If only Hurley had backed Jack up, if only Jacob had spoken to him, . . .Are people living and dying with the choices they make now or is the game between J and MIB still in play?

                                                                                                          #23.1 - Wed May 5, 2010 2:01 AM EDT
                                                                                                          Sabastian Palpatine

                                                                                                          me thinks, both.

                                                                                                          I don't think that this game ends until every single soul evolves consciously to the highest level (The Omega Point) or Nirvana (which literally means "putting out fire". I think this is what Jacob was talking about in The Incident:

                                                                                                          JACOB: I take it you're here 'cause of the ship.

                                                                                                          MAN IN BLACK: I am. How did they find the Island?

                                                                                                          JACOB: You'll have to ask 'em when they get here.

                                                                                                          MAN IN BLACK: I don't have to ask. You brought them here. Still trying to prove me wrong, aren't you?

                                                                                                          JACOB: You are wrong.

                                                                                                          MAN IN BLACK: Am I? They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.

                                                                                                          JACOB: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.

                                                                                                          So my theory is that Jacob's replacement will take the reigns for the next X amount of years, bringing people to the Island which functions not only as a cork but also a teaching instrument.

                                                                                                          While future Losties/ possible candidates learn to live together or die alone, opening their minds to things like Dharma (ultimate reality) letting go, faith, destiny, free-will, forgiveness, how to safely handle unstable dynamite, physics, electromagnetism, time traveling bunnies, freedom from desire and dualistic thought etc. Jack will be living on the beach, frying a fish fillet on a heated rock. Flocke will be terrorizing the next generation of crash survivors.

                                                                                                          Or perhaps Locke is Jacob's replacement (a final "aha!" moment from Darlton) and Jack will be the face of The Monster? I don't think that it matters because both The Leader and his Nemesis have the same goal to bring enlightenment to the consciousness of Mankind. They just have different methods. Jacob is aware of the good that he's doing while The Monster is deterministic and ignorant of the good that he's doing.

                                                                                                          • 2 votes
                                                                                                          #23.2 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:34 PM EDT
                                                                                                          OnlyChild

                                                                                                          I still get the feeling that this whole thing is a family affair with Jacob, MIB, Christian, Locke, Jack, Claire and Aaron.

                                                                                                          How about Jack's Grandpa who tries to leave the "home"?

                                                                                                          • 1 vote
                                                                                                          #23.3 - Thu May 6, 2010 12:47 AM EDT
                                                                                                          Sabastian Palpatine

                                                                                                          oooh, OnlyChild...

                                                                                                          You've given me an idea, but I need some time to think this through. It may be too much info to type in one comment. I think that you've given me an idea for an article but I need to do some research. If I write it then I'll make sure to give you a shout out. Thanks :)

                                                                                                            #23.4 - Thu May 6, 2010 1:41 PM EDT
                                                                                                            Reply
                                                                                                            blackwidow1

                                                                                                            What a sad, sad episode … yet inspirational at the same time. Sayid taking the bomb and running as far as he could to save as many lives as he could. Talk about a hero. That person who sacrifices his life to save the lives of others. I predict Sayid will not be the only hero in this epic story.

                                                                                                            Why does MIB want to kill all the candidates? We’ve known that for a while now … the candidates are Jacob’s potential replacements and Jacob’s replacement will culminate in MIB being imprisoned on the island for an indeterminate amount of time. Who wants to be imprisoned … trapped? Until I know what MIB’s initial offense was that lead to his imprisonment, I reserve the right to presume his innocence and excuse his attempts to achieve freedom. I mean, come on, people have defended the torture of Sawyer and Ben, and the murders of parents, as well as the attempted murder of 12-year-old Ben. Why don’t MIB and Jacob deserve to tell their story before judgment is placed upon them. Hopefully next week will explain a lot.

                                                                                                            Although I know the following will be extremely unpopular and most likely not met kindly, MIB was not responsible for the deaths that occurred tonight. Sawyer did not have to pull the wires from the bomb any more than Ben had to kill Jacob … it was his choice … his freewill (its interesting how freewill is considered a positive thing until someone actually exercises the option and things don’t turn out as planned) … his decision after hearing a perfectly valid argument from Jack. Jack was spot on in his assessment that the bomb would not explode if they left it alone. Just like the dynamite didn’t explode during the Jack/Richard scene in the Blackrock after Richard lost faith in Jacob. If MIB can’t kill the candidates and the candidates can’t kill themselves, then there’s no safer place to be than a sub with a bomb and five candidates who know the rules. Jack figured out one of the rules but Sawyer didn’t trust him. These deaths rest solely on Sawyer’s lack of faith in his “brother.” Understandable action on Sawyer’s part? Absolutely! In the best interest of the rest of the people on the sub? No. If only Sawyer would have believed in Jack.

                                                                                                            Thank the stars for the sideways timeline. It is there that all our Lostie friends continue to exist. I think the question we should be asking now is what has to occur for the sideways timeline to become “real.” Because all of the people we have grown love continue to live in this world.

                                                                                                            • 5 votes
                                                                                                            Reply#24 - Wed May 5, 2010 12:57 AM EDT
                                                                                                            Inchiki

                                                                                                            I know you're really talking about the main characters, but what about those hapless guards at the plane that Locke gunned down. Free will/choice is a fine concept and all but should only matter when it's an informed decision, which is why we have voting requirements. Did those guarding the plane know that their adversary cannot be stopped by bullets? Did the Temple Others really have a choice? I think only Dogen truly understood the situation and consequences. Yes, it's time to demand justice for the "red shirts," the lowly, unnamed extras that are callously discarded, who don't even get a name in the credits!! :D

                                                                                                            It's a funny thing, this responsibility. It all depends on how one views the cause-effect relationship. Feeling threatened, the police officer pulls his gun and fires, killing the suspect. Most people would agree that the officer, the immediate cause of death, is responsible for the suspect's demise. Some would extend the causal relationship, saying that suspect caused his own death by making the officer feel threatened. Responsibility, like time, is a wibbly-wobbly thing.

                                                                                                            • 5 votes
                                                                                                            #24.1 - Wed May 5, 2010 1:59 AM EDT
                                                                                                            blackwidow1

                                                                                                            Inchiki ... good/evil, freewill, responsibility ... its all a slippery slope now isn't it! LOL.

                                                                                                            First let me say, I have thoroughly enjoyed your posts and find something in all of them to make me ponder and consider and question my own thoughts and ideas.

                                                                                                            Hapless guards ... redshirts ... cannon fodder ... its the story of life and history and the battle between ideals. One viewing of "Braveheart" quite effectively exemplifies how insignificant men of power consider those people who actually fight their wars for them. While the guards at the airplane and the people in the temple were most likely uninformed, don't forget that our main characters are uniformed also and have to figure things out for themselves. But I'm right behind you to demand justice for all the redshirts - those killed by MIB and those led to their deaths by Jacob ... and Widmore ... and Ben. Heavens to Betsy! there are a lot of leaders towards violent deaths on this show!

                                                                                                            • 2 votes
                                                                                                            #24.2 - Wed May 5, 2010 2:59 AM EDT
                                                                                                            Jacobisaliar

                                                                                                            "Who wants to be imprisoned … trapped? Until I know what MIB’s initial offense was that lead to his imprisonment, I reserve the right to presume his innocence and excuse his attempts to achieve freedom. I mean, come on, people have defended the torture of Sawyer and Ben, and the murders of parents, as well as the attempted murder of 12-year-old Ben. Why don’t MIB and Jacob deserve to tell their story before judgment is placed upon them."

                                                                                                            You make a perfect point. I said, when season 6 started, that the writers of LOST had us make a choice; they had us take a side; team Jacob or team Smokey. They've provided enough evidence to make both seem both good and evil. Just like the people on the island, we have to choose which one to believe.

                                                                                                            Back to next weeks episode :

                                                                                                            We saw a glimpse of Jacob and Smokey LITERALLY playing a game. I think Smokey "LOST" the game and has "gone directly to jail".

                                                                                                            Before I go, I'd like to leave you with some questions of my own :

                                                                                                            1) How did DHARMA gain some sort of control over Smokey (aka the security system or the Cerberus system they referred to)?

                                                                                                            2) How did Ben know he could summon Smokey to kill the mercenaries?

                                                                                                            3) If Smokey really is evil, why did ben go to a temple with a shrine dedicated to the smoke monster form to be judged for his wrong doings?

                                                                                                            • 4 votes
                                                                                                            #24.3 - Wed May 5, 2010 6:04 AM EDT
                                                                                                            Lost in Space and Time 316

                                                                                                            BW1 - you and I have been on the same side of the MIB defense all along, but after last night I'm not sure I believe that he isn't evil incarnate. Minor, little like a spoiler: in a recent interview with Doc Jensen (and by recent I mean posted last night) the producers stated that they have set up season 6 as MIB's long con, and last night was their proof positive that MIB is absolutely evil; However, that doesn't mean that MIB isn't acting from a place of what he feels is right and justified.

                                                                                                              #24.4 - Wed May 5, 2010 9:01 AM EDT
                                                                                                              kcjhawk

                                                                                                              jacobisaliar: I just saw a repeat of the episode where Ben tries to summon Smokey in season 5 to get his judgment. After he goes through the secret door and passageway, he drains a small basin in the floor. I think that the sonic fence kept Smokey out above and water kept him out below. By draining the water, Ben made the access route to the Dharma Village passable for Smokey.

                                                                                                              • 2 votes
                                                                                                              #24.5 - Wed May 5, 2010 11:09 AM EDT
                                                                                                              Sabastian Palpatine

                                                                                                              "There is no ambiguity," says Cuse. "He is evil and he has to be stopped." (Link:http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/05/04/lost-producers-actors-candidate/ )

                                                                                                              • 2 votes
                                                                                                              #24.6 - Wed May 5, 2010 1:42 PM EDT
                                                                                                              Inchiki

                                                                                                              Blackwidow1,

                                                                                                              I take your remark as a great compliment. A major reason that I joined this community is to hear other viewpoints, to be surprised. It's something that I value and consider it an achievement when I can help another see things from a different perspective . . . and (hopefully) do it in an entertaining manner.

                                                                                                                #24.7 - Thu May 6, 2010 1:36 AM EDT
                                                                                                                blackwidow1

                                                                                                                How I have missed all of you this past week. You are all voices of reason in a sea of insanity. The past several days have been those kind of days where you can’t seem to catch yourself coming or going. I certainly hope to be able to get through the pages of comments here before tomorrow night … I am so excited about “Across the Sea”!

                                                                                                                BW1 - you and I have been on the same side of the MIB defense all along, but after last night I'm not sure I believe that he isn't evil incarnate

                                                                                                                LisaT …

                                                                                                                Someone had to stick up for the poor guy didn’t they! Sad little thing … lonely and friendless on a deserted island. The only person who doesn’t run screaming from you is the kind of guy who offers you food even though he knows you can’t do anything with it anymore - “here buddy, have some fish and wine … oh, that’s right! You can’t eat it anymore because you’re not human … whahahahahaha!” – talk about rubbing salt into a wound! Having to wear used bodies all the time. Maybe all he needs is a big hug and a little understanding. Worked for Ben in the sideways world so maybe there’s hope??? … (yeah LOL, I doubt it too)

                                                                                                                I guess everyone here knows who’s got their backs if they ever go on a smokey rampage on a deserted island!

                                                                                                                I actually did get to read that article you mentioned where Carlton & Damon discuss evil Locke and I must say I have some big ol’ bones to pick with them. Quite simply, I expected much more from a story that has consistently walked a fine line between what (or who) is defined as bad or good, and for them to simply “give us something to hate” - a character that, in my opinion, hasn’t done anything more “evil” than some of the other significant characters have done (but they, themselves haven’t been defined as “evil incarnate”?) – suffice it to say I’m disappointed and feel as if a giant ball has been dropped while juggling the storylines. And then there’s the whole “Smokey made me do it” defense! Really guys? What happened to choice and human culpability? What happened to “We are the causes of our own suffering”? Argh! 4 ½ hours, they have 4 ½ hours to get this story back on track or I know exactly who I’m designating as “evil incarnate”! LOL

                                                                                                                Actually they are totally wrong about all this though. I have seen the face of evil incarnate and its not the face of John Locke or MIB … evil is “The Boyfriend’s” mother! Spending eternity on the island with Smokey would be a blissful walk in the park compared to even a few hours with her! I hope he doesn’t see this hahahahahhaha!

                                                                                                                Now back to real life … wish me luck!

                                                                                                                  #24.8 - Mon May 10, 2010 4:53 PM EDT
                                                                                                                  belle42

                                                                                                                  Are you sure his mother isn't really an incarnation of MiB in some parallel universe? Which might make your boyfriend the so far unnamed teenage boy reminding MiB to play by the rules...which I have no clue what that makes you (except maybe you're the new Jacob!)

                                                                                                                    #24.9 - Mon May 10, 2010 4:56 PM EDT
                                                                                                                    blackwidow1

                                                                                                                    LOL belle ... I'd have to take some weaving classes first!

                                                                                                                    I certainly hope we get a name for MIB tomorrow or will we just call him "boy in black"?

                                                                                                                      #24.10 - Mon May 10, 2010 10:30 PM EDT
                                                                                                                      belle42

                                                                                                                      Well the press release calls him...man in black. And Allison Janney (!!!!!!) plays woman. They're being VERY coy with us this week in the release!!

                                                                                                                        #24.11 - Mon May 10, 2010 10:58 PM EDT
                                                                                                                        Reply
                                                                                                                        Jacobisaliar

                                                                                                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmKcKiz05Ns&feature=PlayList&p=97B25035413E986A&playnext_from=PL&index=36

                                                                                                                        Why does John choose the (fake) medicine, the compass, and the knife? And why did he draw a picutre of Smokey?

                                                                                                                        • 1 vote
                                                                                                                        Reply#25 - Wed May 5, 2010 6:54 AM EDT
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